And come on, 1500 Zen for what's basically a travel power? Cause let's face it, if the Destroid Commander didn't exist these would be up there as the most useless Becomes.
EDIT: I'm curious about the device, do they also have the same crappy stats the jets in the lair do? Because that would just be funny.
I think Super Vehicles as become devices would've worked, they'd be pretty lame but it would be an option for ground only superheroes to move around. The upcoming vehicle system (yay! more systems!!) sounds to be far more interesting.
imo this mission gets way easier if you can fly and have a 100 foot nuke. Keeps out of the range of those evil laser drones, and makes taking the engineers out way easier.
At the least, the jets need like double the hp.
In game, I am @EvilTaco. Happily killing purple gang members since May 2008. RIP Caine
Are the people going on about the mission not being hard or not too hard not using the jets to do it?
Because if so then your opinion does not count!
The mission is there to introduce the jets. The story of the mission is there for the jets. The mission gives us our first taste of vehicular-to-troops combat and vehicle-to-vehicle combat.
If the way to beat the mission is for everyone who can fly to not use the jets at all then the mission as designed is completely broken and a failure.
The challenge of the mission must be built to the unskilled use of the new vehicles, (cause they are new of course) and assuming the use of the vehicles or it's just not doing the job intended.
___________________________________
While she has been rescued
what diabolical mastermind
was behind the devious brain-napping of
the Volterrific Dr Cerebellum?
Um...I haven't had any trouble with the final mission using Jets. I've played it 3 times and beaten it twice, and only failed the one go around because only 3 people (myself included) joined before it started.
Just have someone on the support jet, it has a 100% damage debuff and can heal people who wander too close to the lasers. Stone died in probably under a minute or two on our 2nd go at him with me sitting in a support jet healing others and debuffing him while they focused fire.
The jet controls change when you have a target. They change a lot. I'm not even sure how the movement works when you have a target, but I know that it automatically faces you toward the target horizontally but not vertically. In that state you only seem to be able to move forward, which might be intended to create a strafing run movement pattern if you hold down the "W" key.
When you have not target, it seems to fly similarly to the flight travel powers.
The "correct" strategy might be to move slightly above your target before confirming it, then, once it is confirmed, hold down "W" and attack as much as you can. That might keep the lasers from converging on you.
The Interceptors "3" and 4"" attacks seem to be intended for Stone's vehicle, and the "6" missile attack seems to be for the security forces. "2" is normal reload, and 5 is fast reload. I have no idea why they would be so far apart, or why "1" wouldn't function as an energy builder. I'm not sure but I think "1", "4" and "6" are power armor style toggles.
I still have yet to enjoy this mission, but I keep thinking that there is something to figure out about it that will improve the experience, at least a little.
Edit: I just tried it out, and it's much better. As long as I'm "Strafing" the lasers barely touch me. When I stand still, they converge. It's not so with the security forces, though. It's hard to target them with the missiles and keep moving at the same time. It might be best to clear them out when Stone isn't there. Got the NightHawk Diaper from the bag. x3
That said, you don't just pick some kid up off of a junior varsity football team and drop him straight into an NFL match. I've said this before and I'll say it again: GET THE ELITE MOBS OUT OF THE LEVEL 15 AND BELOW AREAS. Ffs, new players come in and see the pack. Then, attack the pack and get *destroyed*. I actually get a huge kick out of watching it, until I realize that this might have been their first go at the game, and that might have been the breaking point to drive em away.
Who the **** thought putting elite mobs where the level 6-8 characters quest was a good idea? You should fire them.
Actually, it appears that the developers were smart enough not to do that.
I created a fresh level 6 character and beat a group of those mobs by myself- and yes, they had an enforcer. Whilst I am trying to play an build optimised for solo PvE, there is only so much you can do at level 6.
The enforcer only had about 1400 health, and it fell easily to the power of my mighty boomerangs.
EDIT: On reflection, my assertion may not be quite correct. You stated that new characters were being destroyed by these packs. If I had to fight that battle without a semi-AOE power, then I may well have had almost no chance. So I guess the conclusion to draw is that it is possible to take them down at low level, but you may need a more soloable build.
Designers goal failure: this even introduces new gameplay mechanics i.e. vehicles, it needs to function as a tutorial for those mechanics, it needs to teach each new measure of gameplay to totaly unfamiliar players one at a time, it needs to help the player gradually become accustomed to new handling, new powers, new mechanics, it needs to be scaled to the weakest of players with the easiest of learning curves.
It fails on every level.
part 1 of the fight should have been learning to manouver. The loss of the ability to go up or down when locked on was very frustrating to figure out when above the enemy locked on and yet out of range.
part 2 should have taught us how to use each weapon power
This should have been a mission that would be hard for new players just out of the tutorial to fail because it's exactly where new players are going to rush to!
How to fix: reduce enemy healling, reduce enemy damage especially laser drones, add quick instructions on what to do such as seeking engineers. Have Nighthawk tell the players to split between the three types and the role each jet type plays, engineer hunting, heavy damage to the boss etc. Explain how they need to cooperate to succeed.
I just wanted to say that you make a really good point that I never even considered.
We can argue whether the challenge level of the Sasquash, Gravitar, Jack Fool or Luther Black should be as hard as they are until the cows come home, but really THIS particular fight should have been on the easy end.
They should not have had a timer mechanic on a mission where they first introduce new vehicles with powers we are not familiar with and in a configuration we are not familiar with.
ESPECIALLY when this is an event that new players receive straight out of the tutorial and encourages them to try it out with the constant: ATTENTION ALL UNITS! NIGHTHAWK SIGHTED IN BANK/WAREHOUSE/LAB.
If I were a new player, that would have been the very first thing I would try, as it sounds so much more interesting than talking to Kodiac. Plus - chance to win jet!
The finale of this mission really should have been nice fun little dogfight in the air that makes us go: Wow! These jets are awesome! I've got to get me one of them! They should have saved the challenge for future content.
Eh...took a while to get used to it but it's not that bad with a decent group (i.e. one or two other peeps worth a $%#&). It's a bit frustrating sometimes and I don't really like it all that much but it's okay-ish.
As for the reward, yeah as usual their craptastic grab bag leaves much to be desired. The 'consolation' prize should be a bit more than one useless item. I'd really prefer seeing stuff like what came in the older bags - service grab bag stuff like the 4 use items - Triumphant Recovery, the insta-heal item, etcetera (not that the energy one is all that great...). And of course zounds of cozzy unlocks.
NEVER listen to people complaining about wanting more challenge on things that are bright and shiny like events dangling before new players. Sure give those who need and want tougher fights challenges like Gravitar and higher difficulty levels, thats good. But for things like this test them on total newbies! Designers, grab a casual gamer off the street and get them to test it and if they don't succeed on their third try then it's too tough for something you are trying to attract new players with.
This is completely the wrong attitude, if people are complaining about it being not challenging enough when its new then it needs to be more challenging.
This event and the gravitar Alert were just right in my opinbion, I've been running about 15 of my toons though this each day, the first couple times I didnt know what I was doing, but once you know the mechanics its acutaly not that hard of a fight and pretty fun.
First off when you get into the instance you can form a group (you actualy arnt in an offical group when you instance to get the benifit of the SK you have to form up) only a couple of groups have not SK'ed with my lower toons, and I always throw an invite to lower toons when I am on a 40 toon so they can get the benifit of my level (this is called teamwork).
Second after you get to the jets this instance is setup as a dogfight, ie you need to keep moving arround the boss, this prevents him from dropping the lazers on you.
Third, you need to hustle to the next point he is going to and get the engineer BEFORE he gets to it. No heals and he will go down.
Last make use of the full chage bursts, at level 40 they do 25,000 damage on a full charge. if you are just comming back into the fight get to full range and charge it.
Great job on the mechanics fight cryptic, hope to see more like this, even after you figure out the mechanics of this fight its still fun.
The finale of this mission really should have been nice fun little dogfight in the air that makes us go: Wow! These jets are awesome! I've got to get me one of them! They should have saved the challenge for future content.
It was a fun fight and they are cool. This is the attitude that has been bringing down MMO's for the past couple years, a small amout of the gamer population wants to be relaxed, unwind , and not be challenged. To them I say go watch TV or play your facebook games. Gaming is about solving puzzles, thinking on your feet and being on the edge of your seat. Its about the challenge. If the challenge isnt there then whats the point in playing.
Again I say good job cryptic, keep up the good work the fight was fun and the jets are cool. Can we have motercycles next, mabee the fully enclosed Tron style ones?
This is completely the wrong attitude, if people are complaining about it being not challenging enough when its new then it needs to be more challenging.
This event and the gravitar Alert were just right in my opinbion, I've been running about 15 of my toons though this each day, the first couple times I didnt know what I was doing, but once you know the mechanics its acutaly not that hard of a fight and pretty fun.
First off when you get into the instance you can form a group (you actualy arnt in an offical group when you instance to get the benifit of the SK you have to form up) only a couple of groups have not SK'ed with my lower toons, and I always throw an invite to lower toons when I am on a 40 toon so they can get the benifit of my level (this is called teamwork).
Second after you get to the jets this instance is setup as a dogfight, ie you need to keep moving arround the boss, this prevents him from dropping the lazers on you.
Third, you need to hustle to the next point he is going to and get the engineer BEFORE he gets to it. No heals and he will go down.
Last make use of the full chage bursts, at level 40 they do 25,000 damage on a full charge. if you are just comming back into the fight get to full range and charge it.
Great job on the mechanics fight cryptic, hope to see more like this, even after you figure out the mechanics of this fight its still fun.
Actually, for the first introduction of a brand new thing, yours is the wrong attitude. You want to have the event be fun but not frustrating. There is absolutely NO clues given to how to use the vehicles or win the engagement at any time in the mission, which for a mission that serves as an introduction to a brand new system is so completely wrong that it is without excuse or pardon. If it is supposed to be an endgame thing I can understand the need for such extreme damage, but it is not since it is open to everyone fresh out of the tutorial.
Edit to add: Don't get me wrong, I like challenging content. I wish this game had some but it doesn't. None. One-hit-kills and big bags of HP do not equal challenging content. One hit kills only equal frustration and big bags of HP only equal boredom.
The Forumite formerly known as Galeforce.
If you want my money, there is a fairly simple way to get it since I am fairly free with how I spend it. First, produce something I consider to be worth buying. Second, offer it up for sale. Don't lock it behind a gambling scam. If I want something, I am perfectly happy to pay for it. But I will not purchase a CHANCE to get it, When I pay money, I have a perfectly logical right to expect to get what I want.
Comments
I think Super Vehicles as become devices would've worked, they'd be pretty lame but it would be an option for ground only superheroes to move around. The upcoming vehicle system (yay! more systems!!) sounds to be far more interesting.
At the least, the jets need like double the hp.
RIP Caine
Are the people going on about the mission not being hard or not too hard not using the jets to do it?
Because if so then your opinion does not count!
The mission is there to introduce the jets. The story of the mission is there for the jets. The mission gives us our first taste of vehicular-to-troops combat and vehicle-to-vehicle combat.
If the way to beat the mission is for everyone who can fly to not use the jets at all then the mission as designed is completely broken and a failure.
The challenge of the mission must be built to the unskilled use of the new vehicles, (cause they are new of course) and assuming the use of the vehicles or it's just not doing the job intended.
While she has been rescued
what diabolical mastermind
was behind the devious brain-napping of
the Volterrific Dr Cerebellum?
I will never be playing this again.
Horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE.
Just have someone on the support jet, it has a 100% damage debuff and can heal people who wander too close to the lasers. Stone died in probably under a minute or two on our 2nd go at him with me sitting in a support jet healing others and debuffing him while they focused fire.
I rather like the medical jet, myself.
When you have not target, it seems to fly similarly to the flight travel powers.
The "correct" strategy might be to move slightly above your target before confirming it, then, once it is confirmed, hold down "W" and attack as much as you can. That might keep the lasers from converging on you.
The Interceptors "3" and 4"" attacks seem to be intended for Stone's vehicle, and the "6" missile attack seems to be for the security forces. "2" is normal reload, and 5 is fast reload. I have no idea why they would be so far apart, or why "1" wouldn't function as an energy builder. I'm not sure but I think "1", "4" and "6" are power armor style toggles.
I still have yet to enjoy this mission, but I keep thinking that there is something to figure out about it that will improve the experience, at least a little.
Edit: I just tried it out, and it's much better. As long as I'm "Strafing" the lasers barely touch me. When I stand still, they converge. It's not so with the security forces, though. It's hard to target them with the missiles and keep moving at the same time. It might be best to clear them out when Stone isn't there. Got the NightHawk Diaper from the bag. x3
Actually, it appears that the developers were smart enough not to do that.
I created a fresh level 6 character and beat a group of those mobs by myself- and yes, they had an enforcer. Whilst I am trying to play an build optimised for solo PvE, there is only so much you can do at level 6.
The enforcer only had about 1400 health, and it fell easily to the power of my mighty boomerangs.
EDIT: On reflection, my assertion may not be quite correct. You stated that new characters were being destroyed by these packs. If I had to fight that battle without a semi-AOE power, then I may well have had almost no chance. So I guess the conclusion to draw is that it is possible to take them down at low level, but you may need a more soloable build.
I just wanted to say that you make a really good point that I never even considered.
We can argue whether the challenge level of the Sasquash, Gravitar, Jack Fool or Luther Black should be as hard as they are until the cows come home, but really THIS particular fight should have been on the easy end.
They should not have had a timer mechanic on a mission where they first introduce new vehicles with powers we are not familiar with and in a configuration we are not familiar with.
ESPECIALLY when this is an event that new players receive straight out of the tutorial and encourages them to try it out with the constant: ATTENTION ALL UNITS! NIGHTHAWK SIGHTED IN BANK/WAREHOUSE/LAB.
If I were a new player, that would have been the very first thing I would try, as it sounds so much more interesting than talking to Kodiac. Plus - chance to win jet!
The finale of this mission really should have been nice fun little dogfight in the air that makes us go: Wow! These jets are awesome! I've got to get me one of them! They should have saved the challenge for future content.
As for the reward, yeah as usual their craptastic grab bag leaves much to be desired. The 'consolation' prize should be a bit more than one useless item. I'd really prefer seeing stuff like what came in the older bags - service grab bag stuff like the 4 use items - Triumphant Recovery, the insta-heal item, etcetera (not that the energy one is all that great...). And of course zounds of cozzy unlocks.
This is completely the wrong attitude, if people are complaining about it being not challenging enough when its new then it needs to be more challenging.
This event and the gravitar Alert were just right in my opinbion, I've been running about 15 of my toons though this each day, the first couple times I didnt know what I was doing, but once you know the mechanics its acutaly not that hard of a fight and pretty fun.
First off when you get into the instance you can form a group (you actualy arnt in an offical group when you instance to get the benifit of the SK you have to form up) only a couple of groups have not SK'ed with my lower toons, and I always throw an invite to lower toons when I am on a 40 toon so they can get the benifit of my level (this is called teamwork).
Second after you get to the jets this instance is setup as a dogfight, ie you need to keep moving arround the boss, this prevents him from dropping the lazers on you.
Third, you need to hustle to the next point he is going to and get the engineer BEFORE he gets to it. No heals and he will go down.
Last make use of the full chage bursts, at level 40 they do 25,000 damage on a full charge. if you are just comming back into the fight get to full range and charge it.
Great job on the mechanics fight cryptic, hope to see more like this, even after you figure out the mechanics of this fight its still fun.
It was a fun fight and they are cool. This is the attitude that has been bringing down MMO's for the past couple years, a small amout of the gamer population wants to be relaxed, unwind , and not be challenged. To them I say go watch TV or play your facebook games. Gaming is about solving puzzles, thinking on your feet and being on the edge of your seat. Its about the challenge. If the challenge isnt there then whats the point in playing.
Again I say good job cryptic, keep up the good work the fight was fun and the jets are cool. Can we have motercycles next, mabee the fully enclosed Tron style ones?
I've never thought I get something more worse then Drifter's Salvage in event. >.<
Actually, for the first introduction of a brand new thing, yours is the wrong attitude. You want to have the event be fun but not frustrating. There is absolutely NO clues given to how to use the vehicles or win the engagement at any time in the mission, which for a mission that serves as an introduction to a brand new system is so completely wrong that it is without excuse or pardon. If it is supposed to be an endgame thing I can understand the need for such extreme damage, but it is not since it is open to everyone fresh out of the tutorial.
Edit to add: Don't get me wrong, I like challenging content. I wish this game had some but it doesn't. None. One-hit-kills and big bags of HP do not equal challenging content. One hit kills only equal frustration and big bags of HP only equal boredom.
The Forumite formerly known as Galeforce.
If you want my money, there is a fairly simple way to get it since I am fairly free with how I spend it. First, produce something I consider to be worth buying. Second, offer it up for sale. Don't lock it behind a gambling scam. If I want something, I am perfectly happy to pay for it. But I will not purchase a CHANCE to get it, When I pay money, I have a perfectly logical right to expect to get what I want.
I got... [BOLAS] in that stupid bag.
:eek:
=^ _ ^= Kitty Lives!