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Cryptic: Please stop live patches until you fix QA process

quasimojo1quasimojo1 Posts: 642 Arc User
edited August 2012 in Champions Online Discussion
Dear Cryptic,

I have been a big fan of your game since launch. I spend money, this is the only MMO I play, and I rarely complain. But the game is becoming less and less playable due to defects.

You really need to figure out what's happened to your internal change control / QA process immediately, and stop any new updates to the live server until you get your development process back under control. For the last few months, this game is getting buggier and less stable with each new update.

I've been a software developer myself for over 10 years and I understand that defects are inevitable. But the frequency and severity of your defects tells me something has changed in your process lately and not in a good way. Does the team have a lot of new developers? Is checked-in code not undergoing any kind of review? Is it a morale issue?

I'm as eager for new content and features as anyone, but please focus on stability and bug fixes first.

Here is a good thread that tracks the bugs just from this latest patch:

http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=164571

Sincerely yours,
@quasimojo1
LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.

"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
Post edited by Unknown User on

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    flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,408 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I think the problem is the lack of an actual team.....
    CHAMPIONS ONLINE:Join Date: Apr 2008
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    serendipitynowserendipitynow Posts: 554 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Yeah this is beyond a joke now

    implement patch break a ton of stuff, rollback to fix patch...

    a week later patch it back in and break tons of stuff AGAIN!

    This time no roll back but a follow up patch that still leaves several things broken

    Whats the point of rollback and fix if it still messes up the game so much, where was the fixing and where was the testing the first time as well as the 2nd!
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    quasimojo1quasimojo1 Posts: 642 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Maybe they are overreaching, trying to do too much too fast with too small of a team. In which case, I wish they would consider the phrase "Primum non nocere" -- First, Do No Harm.

    It's better to make smaller, slower, RELIABLE updates than to create a mess of bugs that will be hard to track down later and frustrate your loyal customers.
    LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.

    "Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
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    hubrixhubrix Posts: 264 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Feels like they were hellbent on releasing before the month ends. They rolled back the previous (and arguably less gamebreaking) patch because they still had a week but since this was the final patch day for August they forced this bug ridden patch through.
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    nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    quasimojo1 wrote: »
    I'm as eager for new content and features as anyone, but please focus on stability and bug fixes first.

    Sincerely yours,
    @quasimojo1

    Cryptic needs to frame that and put it above ALL their doors .
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    theapygoostheapygoos Posts: 384 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    as all my skype buddies laugh and say:
    It's Cryptic
    ]
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    roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,784 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    This latest patch also messed with UI (fonts are too big to fit into speech balloons), Nemeses, Valerian Scarlet, and Ripper.

    Really, this is pretty crappy.
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    somebobsomebob Posts: 980 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    roughbearmattach wrote: »
    This latest patch also messed with UI (fonts are too big to fit into speech balloons),

    Actually, they changed the 'buffer size' of the speech balloons around the words. Personally reported multiple times on PTS, wasn't fixed.
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    r9xchaosr9xchaos Posts: 533
    edited August 2012
    quasimojo1 wrote: »
    Dear Cryptic,

    I have been a big fan of your game since launch. I spend money, this is the only MMO I play, and I rarely complain. But the game is becoming less and less playable due to defects.

    You really need to figure out what's happened to your internal change control / QA process immediately, and stop any new updates to the live server until you get your development process back under control. For the last few months, this game is getting buggier and less stable with each new update.

    I've been a software developer myself for over 10 years and I understand that defects are inevitable. But the frequency and severity of your defects tells me something has changed in your process lately and not in a good way. Does the team have a lot of new developers? Is checked-in code not undergoing any kind of review? Is it a morale issue?

    I'm as eager for new content and features as anyone, but please focus on stability and bug fixes first.

    Here is a good thread that tracks the bugs just from this latest patch:

    http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=164571

    Sincerely yours,
    @quasimojo1



    Thank you !!!

    Im totally with you !
  • Options
    thalast1thalast1 Posts: 78 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    This is what happens when there is a skeleton crew working on champions while most of the studio is focused on STO and Nevewinter.

    It's getting really hard to believe otherwise.
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    r9xchaosr9xchaos Posts: 533
    edited August 2012
    thalast1 wrote: »
    This is what happens when there is a skeleton crew working on champions while most of the studio is focused on STO and Nevewinter.

    It's getting really hard to believe otherwise.

    Then they should close CO.. really if there is no love.. why continue on it?
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    fudgemonstafudgemonsta Posts: 1,591 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    r9xchaos wrote: »
    Then they should close CO.. really if there is no love.. why continue on it?

    Look at all the optimism and support. :rolleyes:

    The game is obviously still being worked on. Despite it being a buggy patch, it is still a patch. Let me give you an example. Spore, a good computer game, hasn't gotten a patch in roughly two years. The developers don't even post anymore on the official website and the forum is a desolate wasteland.

    Now, compare to here. People might be unhappy, but at least they have active patches, a community that actually works together rather well, and a system that is at least working towards being less buggy. (Despite setbacks such as this current patch.)

    See, its all about perspective. You can at least say 'Well I might have been stabbed but that guy got stabbed twice so I'm really not off that bad'.

    Yeah, it may seem like I'm promoting the lack of substantial updating, but I'm merely trying to state that the current game state isn't really that bad. Saying that at the slightest glimpse of game support loss (Which, we all know, has been around for a while.) that they should shut it down is just plain silly.
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    r9xchaosr9xchaos Posts: 533
    edited August 2012
    Usually i rarely complan about things... i ve dealt with al the bugs at nemesis powersets , by avoiding those powers...ive dealt with the "wrong teamID" thing when i switch chat tabs...and ive dealt with some other bugs.. without opening my mouth because i thought i should be patient...

    but now... i can only play demonflame with my SG membes and thats it... because all other mission are broke..

    even hotspot missions ....

    my wife tried to complete that one on the TOY map...( mini map at dr destroyers lab ) and she got CRASH everytime when the boss monster attacked her... we tried it then with myself too and we both crashed at the same point.. -.- and then somehow it worked because i force cascaded the whole room .. the aggro was not focusing on any of us 2 and thats why we didnt crash this time...i think...

    i was advertising CO to so many peopel at facebook saying " this game is best , it has almost no crashes on me and my friends machines and the devs doing updates and so on.." but now .... the fun at playing this game is reduced so hard because i cant do things now .. except demonflame..
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    beldinbeldin Posts: 1,708 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    r9xchaos wrote: »

    even hotspot missions ....

    That would really annoy me the most, since thats what i've done the most time when not
    leveling a new character .. Unity, Nemesis, or Dockside Nemesis .. and after all i read here
    all that is broken.

    I still wonder about the reasons why such a patch is release 10 hours before GW2 started ..
    as if they wanted us to play another game .. or did they really thought the Nighthawk stuff
    would kept people playing CO :confused:
    R607qMf.jpg
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    serendipitynowserendipitynow Posts: 554 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Thing is bug fixes and new content dont get them money, shiny new crap like the constant costumes, travel powers and ATs do...

    Thats why they will push through a patch to add shiny crap that breaks half the things in the game
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    clockwiseclockwise Posts: 145 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    r9xchaos wrote: »
    Usually i rarely complan about things...

    Seriously? Have you not read your own posts and looked at your effing sig image? Come on, guy. At least be honest. Usually you complain.
    .
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    I was Dubsy on the Old Forums. I am still @Dubsy in-game. Also, lol.
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    beldinbeldin Posts: 1,708 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    serendipitynow wrote: »
    Thing is bug fixes and new content dont get them money, shiny new crap like the constant costumes, travel powers and ATs do...

    Thats why they will push through a patch to add shiny crap that breaks half the things in the game

    They don't get them money if they break the game so much that everybody stops playing.
    I think simply adding usefull stuff like the possibility to buy a bigger Global-Cap for silvers
    would give them more than what they just did.
    R607qMf.jpg
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    klittyklitty Posts: 1,545 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I complain! A lot! I'm very vocal! And these bugs are driving me crazy and wanting more and more to buy that special fantasy game with kitties with crossbows that go pew pew pew on vampires.

    Oh! What's that? O.o

    =^ _ ^= Kitty Lives!
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    wacky99wacky99 Posts: 115 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    r9xchaos wrote: »
    Usually i rarely complan about things...
    Say what? You were the person adding complaints in about Sneak in multiple topics and demanding a Retcon just a few days ago. Smackwell has had to moderate and remove a bunch of your posts in other topics too, and your signature images (the old red honeycomb one, and the current one) are the only ones that I'm using AdBlock to hide, they're that obnoxious.
    Stuffy on the old CO forums. PWE ate my username.
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    themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,599 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    r9xchaos wrote: »
    Usually i rarely complan about things...

    I nearly peed myself laughing at that:biggrin:
    zrdRBy8.png
    Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
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    beldinbeldin Posts: 1,708 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    r9xchaos wrote: »
    Usually i rarely complan about things...

    And i usally don't use sarcasm :biggrin:
    R607qMf.jpg
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    r9xchaosr9xchaos Posts: 533
    edited August 2012
    themightyzenith wrote: »
    I nearly peed myself laughing at that:biggrin:

    if there was nothing wrong i could not complain.. so?!.. its not me who needs to stop complaining... its Cryptic who has to make things that work... because they get PAID..


    if i get paid for not-complaining ... well thats another story..lol
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    nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    r9xchaos wrote: »
    if there was nothing wrong i could not complain.. so?!.. its not me who needs to stop complaining... its Cryptic who has to make things that work... because they get PAID..


    if i get paid for not-complaining ... well thats another story..lol

    This ^

    Cryptic/PWE want us to buy ZEN they gotta make a product worth spending money on.

    When Champions is working its sublime, but most of the time its just laughable :/

    Out of STO and Champions...Champions is the better game its more fun to play and I am a big STO fan but even I can see this. No other MMO lets you shrink trucks and hurl garbage cans at furries.

    If you fix it they will come \o/
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    jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,317 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    r9xchaos wrote: »
    if there was nothing wrong i could not complain.. so?!..
    No, dude, the part that was funny was where you led off by claiming that you "rarely complain". For at least the past month, you've done nothing BUT complain! You complained when the patch was put through and then revoked... you complained when Sneak became Night Warrior... now you're complaining about this mess, which is understandable - but prefacing it by stating that you rarely complain?

    I haven't read anything so hilarious since Shev was banned!
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

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    angelofcaineangelofcaine Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    r9xchaos wrote: »
    Usually i rarely complan about things...

    Uh, huh :rolleyes:
    • Stop posting in "eye bleeding" yellow in obnoxiously large font.
    • Stop crossposting in every thread known to man on the forums about one single topic.
    • Reduce your sig to regulation limits (500w X 150h), and remove the "complaint" advertising".
    And maybe i'll believe THAT one :wink:
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    Shadow_Kitty wrote:
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    themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,599 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    r9xchaos wrote: »
    if there was nothing wrong i could not complain.. l

    Oh, I'm sure you would find a way:biggrin:
    zrdRBy8.png
    Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
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    mersenneprimemersenneprime Posts: 110 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    r9xchaos wrote: »
    if there was nothing wrong i could not complain..
    Unfortunately, we're not in a Perfect World...
    In the game, I'm @Knickknacks.
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    r9xchaosr9xchaos Posts: 533
    edited August 2012
    my sig pic is small as it should be ^^
    i should not advertise bug reportings and complainemnts? so noone wil see maybe? no.. i need to help spreading the info
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    cybersoldier1981cybersoldier1981 Posts: 2,501 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    r9xchaos hasn't done much wrong. I've seen more complaints about less important things. Right now, this game has more bugs than a Hoarders episode in an Alabama trailer park.

    I've had a theory about them tinkering with the scale of things in game, due to the vehicles coming in. Maybe that's way off and stupid... but I'll admit I am ignorant to programming and game engines. I just know when 'somethin' be broke', and this here be broke.

    There's been NOTHING from the developers about fixing this. Sadly, a few of the costume bugs that were 'fixed' were actually... awesome. I can honestly say this is kind of sad.

    So keep griping about this. And the region bans. And the old bugs. And the chat silencer. And the chick who is apparently raising 4 hellspawned toddlers in the room next to me at the hotel, and STILL has her television on loud as hell at 2 AM? Gripe about her, too.
  • Options
    angelofcaineangelofcaine Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    r9xchaos wrote: »
    my sig pic is small as it should be ^^
    i should not advertise bug reportings and complainemnts? so noone wil see maybe? no.. i need to help spreading the info
    See, here's part of your problem :frown:
    You're so busy thinking you're right with your "wall's of text", you can't even consider you might not be right in your argument :rolleyes:
    Signature/Avatar Rule Violation
    Signatures are limited to five lines of text, including blank lines, and/or an image.
    The total signature size must be no larger than 500x150 pixels and 50Kb in size if it contains an image.
    Yes, your sig "pic" is 500w X 150H... :tongue:

    ...But your additional "lines of text" boosts it from 150h to 240h
    (Making your CURRENT total sig size 500w X 240h)

    And all this argument took to solve is a ruler...
    ...Get back to me when you've mastered more advanced methods of logic :biggrin:

    DISCLAIMER: Yes, smack/farmer, i fully expect that last line to be "edited". Just leave the rest...
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    Shadow_Kitty wrote:
    Were there any specific reason for that personal attack other than that your opinion differs from mine?
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    clockwiseclockwise Posts: 145 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I haven't seen anyone object to him complaining. The objection is him characterising himself as someone who rarely complains, when it is literally almost all we have collectively seen him contribute to the community.
    .
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    I was Dubsy on the Old Forums. I am still @Dubsy in-game. Also, lol.
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    rokurocarisrokurocaris Posts: 1,074 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    quasimojo1 wrote: »
    Maybe they are overreaching, trying to do too much too fast with too small of a team. In which case, I wish they would consider the phrase "Primum non nocere" -- First, Do No Harm.

    It's better to make smaller, slower, RELIABLE updates than to create a mess of bugs that will be hard to track down later and frustrate your loyal customers.

    Sadly, they have scedules. The new content must flow. And PW doesn't care about harm done to any game. If one dies, they have more than enough others to make money with.
    r9xchaos wrote: »
    if there was nothing wrong i could not complain.. so?!.. its not me who needs to stop complaining... its Cryptic who has to make things that work... because they get PAID.

    I agree! In times like this, we need people who complain and point out what is wrong. The last thing we should do is keeping quiet while our game falls appart!
  • Options
    r9xchaosr9xchaos Posts: 533
    edited August 2012
    rokurocaris wrote: »
    Sadly, they have scedules. The new content must flow. And PW doesn't care about harm done to any game. If one dies, they have more than enough others to make money with.



    I agree! In times like this, we need people who complain and point out what is wrong. The last thing we should do is keeping quiet while our game falls appart!

    So true, thanks for saying this.
    angelofcaine wrote: »
    See, here's part of your problem :frown:
    You're so busy thinking you're right with your "wall's of text", you can't even consider you might not be right in your argument :rolleyes:

    Yes, your sig "pic" is 500w X 150H... :tongue:

    ...But your additional "lines of text" boosts it from 150h to 240h
    (Making your CURRENT total sig size 500w X 240h)

    And all this argument took to solve is a ruler...
    ...Get back to me when you've mastered more advanced methods of logic :biggrin:

    DISCLAIMER: Yes, smack/farmer, i fully expect that last line to be "edited". Just leave the rest...

    Aha , im not the only one who got a siggy AND additional text wich extends the limit...

    A ruler? so you have a Ruler that has "Pixel" units?.. wow...youve nothign else to do than taking your special ruler and press it against your screen just to check if someone signature is a bit to big?!... wow ... get a life
  • Options
    themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,599 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    rokurocaris wrote: »
    I agree! In times like this, we need people who complain and point out what is wrong. The last thing we should do is keeping quiet while our game falls appart!

    I agree with your above statement Rokuro. However, I don't think that people who have responded to r9xchaos are against legitimate, constructive complaints.

    In my opinion, we just find it hilarious that he started a wall of text with "Usually i rarely complan about things...".
    A bit of self-reflection may be in order there.

    Further, if he toned down his aggression towards other forumites who ALL want the game to be fixed then he may get a better reception. He sabotages his own efforts.
    zrdRBy8.png
    Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
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    wacky99wacky99 Posts: 115 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I logged in just to see what the general situation was earlier today. It was about the same time of the day as normal for me. Normally in Milennium city there would be about 6 to 9 MC shards at varying levels of user population. Today, however, there were only three. I'm hoping I'm just being paranoid about the lower than normal numbers.
    Stuffy on the old CO forums. PWE ate my username.
  • Options
    beldinbeldin Posts: 1,708 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    wacky99 wrote: »
    I logged in just to see what the general situation was earlier today. It was about the same time of the day as normal for me. Normally in Milennium city there would be about 6 to 9 MC shards at varying levels of user population. Today, however, there were only three. I'm hoping I'm just being paranoid about the lower than normal numbers.

    Except the numbers to get even lower today, since the last days were just the head-start
    and today is official release of GW2. That together with the last patch ..
    R607qMf.jpg
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    r9xchaosr9xchaos Posts: 533
    edited August 2012
    Well me and my wife noticed that yesterday.. usually its like 6-8 channels at MC but yesterday it was 3...=(

    ive spent so much time and money in this game to see how it is falling... wow...


    now i hope for a miracle...
  • Options
    angelofcaineangelofcaine Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    r9xchaos wrote: »
    my sig pic is/was small as it should be...
    r9xchaos wrote: »
    ...A ruler? So you have a Ruler that has "Pixel" units?.. wow...You've nothign else to do than taking your special ruler and press it against your screen just to check if someone signature is a bit to big?!... wow ... get a life
    No, actually i just like correcting peoples unfactualy incorrect statements
    r9xchaos wrote: »
    ...Aha , im not the only one who got a siggy AND additional text wich extends the limit...
    If it bugs you, report it :wink:

    /ontopic

    I don't think live patches should stop.
    I just think Cryptic needs a better Q&A process is all.
    __________________________________________________O.P.T.I.O.N.S.
    | ME | A "Guide" Book" | | I, have a "DREAM! | ( Member since Feb 2008 ) ... ?
    [SIGPIC]http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b132/AngelOfCaine/STILLS/Misc/CO-Sig_01e.png[/SIGPIC]
    Shadow_Kitty wrote:
    Were there any specific reason for that personal attack other than that your opinion differs from mine?
  • Options
    mersenneprimemersenneprime Posts: 110 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    angelofcaine wrote: »
    I don't think live patches should stop.
    I just think Cryptic needs a better Q&A process is all.
    What they need to do is fix their QA process. Note, that's QA, as in Quality Assurance. I'd like them to have a better Q&A process, since they haven't been as communicative lately as they were in the past. Some Question & Answer stuff would be nice... but that has no bearing on the current situation. :rolleyes:

    And, yes, the live patches should stop until they get a better handle on QA. Introducing new bugs in a patch is always bad. The last couple patches have been disastrous. First a patch that broke stuff that was rolled back, then a patch that just broke stuff with a scramble to fix some of the biggest problems, while leaving a whole slew of other stuff wrong.

    It frustrates currently players, even rabid fans, when old bugs don't get addressed and there's a constant stream of new ones. New players come into the game and when there's so much that's bugged they aren't likely to stick around. Either way the business is losing customers.

    They really need rebuild customer confidence in their product. That means spending a month or two just doing bug-fixing and addressing things that are obviously half done (*cough* avian warrior set). That would go a very long way toward retaining customers (old and new).

    Once they've got things back in (mostly) complete working order, then they can start working on releasing new content... with the idea that new content is properly tested before going live. Even if the content is released a little slower, peeps will be much happier if that content is working right and of better quality. The increased customer confidence will not only keep (and gain) customers for their current projects, it'll improve customer reception for future products as well.
    In the game, I'm @Knickknacks.
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    r9xchaosr9xchaos Posts: 533
    edited August 2012
    angelofcaine wrote: »
    No, actually i just like correcting peoples unfactualy incorrect statements

    in my schooltime we have punished peopel who corrected everyone all the time... lol

    you know that L hand-sign?

    PS. some peopel seem to have nothing else irl.. thats why they run arround and report everyone for stupid things... sad story
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    themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,599 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    r9xchaos wrote: »
    During my school-days we punished people who corrected everyone all the time...

    Corrected that for you:biggrin: And by the way, people who corrected everyone all the time=teachers
    zrdRBy8.png
    Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
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    wacky99wacky99 Posts: 115 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    beldin wrote: »
    Except the numbers to get even lower today, since the last days were just the head-start
    and today is official release of GW2. That together with the last patch ..

    Is that where your avatar + signature pictures are from, Beldin?
    Stuffy on the old CO forums. PWE ate my username.
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    beldinbeldin Posts: 1,708 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    wacky99 wrote: »
    Is that where your avatar + signature pictures are from, Beldin?

    Yepp .. my female Norn Warrior :wink:
    R607qMf.jpg
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    skyranger1414skyranger1414 Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Isn't today the pre Xpac patch day for WoW? Expect it to be VERY empty.
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    themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,599 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    beldin wrote: »
    Yepp .. my female Norn Warrior :wink:

    Why, mam. You're beautiful!
    zrdRBy8.png
    Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
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    biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Gonna put the brakes on this one, what with all them personal attacks flying around.

    Be nice to each other, gosh!
    biffsig.jpg
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