Intelligence Specialization - Revitalize

venompapa

Alright, here only i think this spec could use a ROUGH nerf?

The fact is, with a right setup you can run around with permament Active Defense/Offense plus whatever powers while you just healing yourself with the Celestial energy builder.

So... for example i dont wonder noboy sing up for Zombie Apocalypse pvp anymore, a person with this just would stand around while remains completly unbeatable.

oniganon

While it does indeed enable very high uptime on an active offense/defense, you are limited to using your energy builder the entire time. No attacking, no blocking, no healing, just energy builder. This would thoroughly negate much of the point of HAVING a high uptime on your active offense/defense.

It's pretty impractical to abuse this except on a PA build using Wrist Bolter with Automated Assault and a shoulder/chest slot attack. Any other setup loses too much from wasting so much time using the energy builder.

monsterdaddy

If you are worried that they are unkillable, you can build a toon with stuns lasting up to 14 seconds -- that will give you enough time to kill anyone. (And if you can't do that -- stun em again!)

venompapa

I can tell one of my character with AoPM + Ego as main stat is rather unstunnable, its maybe stay on her for a half sec i think.

And still this thing work with the Celestial energy builder what you just can use on yourself

Yay okay i could use for my healer to be awesome but eh.. seriously this thing is idiotically owerpowered.

oniganon wrote: »

No attacking, no blocking, no healing, just energy builder.

Bonity Chi Resurgence do the healpart with the masterful dodge, also the person who i seen had 4-5 stack on himself from it. Other is he keep tap on Conviction sometime maybe, beside this who care about blocking?

And attack.... there is the Unleashed rage what they rather can spam with this thing a lot, plus something else for ranged area attack beside that or single target attack.

Edit: oh also the person kept spam Intensity wich kept the 8 stack enrage refresh... so eh?

beldin

venompapa wrote: »

Edit: oh also the person kept spam Intensity wich kept the 8 stack enrage refresh... so eh?

Since when does intensity refresh enrage ?

venompapa

beldin wrote: »

Since when does intensity refresh enrage ?

Since the Enrage got turned into a form i think. but im not exactly sure, anyway i make a testbuild with my main char for check really whats up with this thing.

beldin

venompapa wrote: »

Since the Enrage got turned into a form i think. but im not exactly sure, anyway i make a testbuild with my main char for check really whats up with this thing.

You know that Intensity is a power from the Martial Arts Set ?

ventani

If you do the math it isn't much of a change. What makes the bigger difference is the fact that you've super stated Int, reducing cooldown, also cooldown reduction gear, & cooldown reducing specilizations. Couple all 4 and it looks powerful, but I don't see it being overpowered in PVE because if you remove revitalize you don't change much; you can already keep an 8 stack of enrage up forever, double/triple stack BCR, or fire off unleashed rage every 30 seconds without revitalize. When you take this, you sacrifice your PSS that would probably work better than trying to shoe horn in Int.

agentnx5

I think the people posting above are showing some inordinate paranoia and offering bad advice...

Ladies & gents, INT as a primary kinda sucks... There are a few strong builds you can make with it but in general it kind of sucks as a primary.

Revitalize WAS broken when it was first introduced in the PTS, then it got hit the the nerf bat and turned into useless bland paste. I had to check the dates on this thread just to see if it was a thread being necro-ed from back then.

Not to mention enrage and AoPM also got hit with the nerfbat rather severely. Enough that Might is kind of a joke now apparently in some circles. More bad ideas and overdoing things until they suck all in the name of ideal balance.

I'll give you a great example. Dodge tanks (pre-patch) + aspect of the infernal + supernatural power + epidemic + defile + Dark Speed + IDF + masterful dodge + BCR /w RR. People claimed such builds were unbeatable, then came the Ebon Ruin + Dragon Upper Cut + tapping (NOT charging) ego annihilate or reaper's embrace or something else like that. Knock disabled the dodge, passive heal greatly reduced, etc.

Whining about the latest flavor of the month doesn't mean it "overpowered" necessarily, it often just means you need to adapt your strategy and make a counter-build if it's THAT prevalent.

Heck before poison it was this whole thing with one-shot perma-stealthing snipers. Oh yeah and Ego Surge anyone? That used to be ridiculously annoying in Zombie Apocalypse farming, now it's a joke. (a prime example of over-nerfing something until it sucks) Maybe I sound cynical but I've seen this dance before too many times.

Show me an "unbeatable build" and I'll show you how to beat them in PvP, and I'm by no means the best or most experienced researcher.

For PvE, why bother? Does it REALLY matter if they can have faster cooldowns? Not really, no. Does it matter for RP purposes? lol, no. So the objection here is only PvP based, and to me it seems to be a clear failure to adapt.

venompapa

beldin wrote: »

You know that Intensity is a power from the Martial Arts Set ?

It is, sorry just misschecked it, it was the aggressor.

ventani: its ture what you say but this thing still stupidly odd

agentnx5

venompapa wrote: »

The fact is, with a right setup you can run around with permament Active Defense/Offense plus whatever powers while you just healing yourself with the Celestial energy builder. [...] completly unbeatable.

Tell you what, if you want to call it "fact", prove it.

Walk in to the center of RenCenter #1 and schedule duels with the best PvP builds and most experienced players who use them that are around. You need to be for at least a 12 hour span to find the majority of them (afternoons in European and American time zones are peak hours).

Go ahead. Flaunt your ego, claim to be unbeatable. (oh don't forget when you loose each time to blame it on lag, runners, stealth like the "wannabe pro-kiddies" do)

Maybe your humbling beatdown will make it on YouTube! You could be famous! Please, just do it! :-P

If you can just walk in and win against literally everybody who's somebody, then I shall take back my previous comments and agree with you it's overpowered and advocate a nerfing to bring it back in balance. Personally I wouldn't wager you'd last more than 30 seconds against most PvP veterans & experts, if even that.

INT is, overall sub-par as a mastery (especially if you compare it against CON, DEX, or even PRE). This specialization isn't going to make or break it enough to replace skill & experience. And you calling it a "fact" and that it's "completely unbeatable" is just itching for somebody to prove you wrong, harshly. I've seen it before many times in this game, and other games.

ventani

Odd maybe, but it adds diversity. It adds a very nice element of 'new' and in a game of choices that rocks.

Agent is dead on. From my PVP experience, it was generally paper/rock/scissors, and it was just a matter of time till some one came along to rock your scissor build into depression.

secksegai

The spec already received a nerf.

The int tree is pretty slick for aopm setups since it basically boosts performance for everything.

I know wes, he's designed to be nearly unkillable while touching himself all the time, but while he's tough to kill, he's not that big a threat on his own. He worked something out to maximize potential, and yet that setup is still vulnerable to a single power, one that you see rarely, and almost non-existent in pvp.

perma this/that isn't such a big deal, they take a build centered around that mechanic to utilize it

The bigger problem is how the cd/cost redux changed the dynamic of pvp in general, and anyone can be a tank for 15s at a time with a 30s or less window in between.

wesleytansg

The OP is asking to nerf a build, specifically mine since I have not seen anyone else use such a build. However I just wish to remind the OP that I only have 1 attack like you suggested which is unleashed rage. That attack can only be used once every 10 to 14 seconds and the dmg output is lower than all the AoPM FC builds you can find. Can my toon be killed? Of course it can. I have died in ZA, BASH, Stronghold, Gravitar and hell even Hi-Pan. Do I PvP with the big boys? Yes. Is my toon easy to kill? No. Have you tried killing healer bubblers solo? They are hard to kill too. Impossible to kill, I don't think so. It all depends on the player's skills and build. Hell, my build can't kill many of the real PvPers with a proper heal simply because it takes so long for me to have another attack that any damage I did with the previous attack would have totally healed. So how overpowered is this?

Yes I run aggressor to maintain my enrage stacks, I also have BCR which is triple stacked most of the time. Rarely will it hit 4 and rarely slip to 2 but never reach 5. PvE wise, I do not outgun any DPS toons so this build does not work for boss farming. For that matter, the attack is so slow I can''t hold aggro well at all if at all. PvP wise, the informed PvPer simply ignores my toon and hunt other easier prey. They also keep a distance so I do not get to spike them and tag a kill. If the worry is ZA, as I mentioned before, the regular players have killed me before. With good timing and right build it is very possible to kill my toon. I also do not run any other attack powers simply because I need to have my toon targetted all the time. Furthermore, the active defense is not permanent; there is still a 2 second or so down time. So what you are calling out to nerf is specifically my toon which no one else uses. This I find rather offensive TBH.

wesleytansg

secksegai wrote: »

The spec already received a nerf.

I know wes, he's designed to be nearly unkillable while touching himself all the time,

*b*tch slaps

mummy, this feels good...

LOL

venompapa

Thanks the answers from everybody, i think better if i run tests on these things before post anything here x_X
So anyway, i did give a testrun for similar build and now i see whats up.

gwanfoogoldstein

wesleytansg wrote: »

The OP is asking to nerf a build, specifically mine since I have not seen anyone else use such a build. However I just wish to remind the OP that I only have 1 attack like you suggested which is unleashed rage. That attack can only be used once every 10 to 14 seconds and the dmg output is lower than all the AoPM FC builds you can find. Can my toon be killed? Of course it can. I have died in ZA, BASH, Stronghold, Gravitar and hell even Hi-Pan. Do I PvP with the big boys? Yes. Is my toon easy to kill? No. Have you tried killing healer bubblers solo? They are hard to kill too. Impossible to kill, I don't think so. It all depends on the player's skills and build. Hell, my build can't kill many of the real PvPers with a proper heal simply because it takes so long for me to have another attack that any damage I did with the previous attack would have totally healed. So how overpowered is this?

Yes I run aggressor to maintain my enrage stacks, I also have BCR which is triple stacked most of the time. Rarely will it hit 4 and rarely slip to 2 but never reach 5. PvE wise, I do not outgun any DPS toons so this build does not work for boss farming. For that matter, the attack is so slow I can''t hold aggro well at all if at all. PvP wise, the informed PvPer simply ignores my toon and hunt other easier prey. They also keep a distance so I do not get to spike them and tag a kill. If the worry is ZA, as I mentioned before, the regular players have killed me before. With good timing and right build it is very possible to kill my toon. I also do not run any other attack powers simply because I need to have my toon targetted all the time. Furthermore, the active defense is not permanent; there is still a 2 second or so down time. So what you are calling out to nerf is specifically my toon which no one else uses. This I find rather offensive TBH.

Wes... Interesting build.

I took that ball and ran with it. Have a video of a build vs all of Demon 5 man hard running the weakest passive (AoAC) and the weakest form (IDF)

Slow arse bandwith uploading the file will take forever. Specs were for revitalize and CC bonuses. I show gear and the stats info. Forgot to show Specs (mea culpa)

It will be uploaded someday... my DSL downgraded when I moved and the upload HURTZ.

Want to try tanking Gravitar with the build, it has CC (on pounce) and CS (on sparkstorm). Should have no energy issues vs. a solo since I could alternate targeting self with targeting Gravitar Dunno how well the tanking would go...

http://youtu.be/niAtVcdBRls

Here's the build, removed Mindlink for Implosion Device since rounding up critters can be useful for Ego Storm and Sparkstorm

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Gwan Foo Goldstein "Touch Myself" build

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Intelligence (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Presence (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: Arcanus
Level 6: Brilliant
Level 9: Enduring
Level 12: Diplomatic
Level 15: Healthy Mind
Level 18: Field Ops Training
Level 21: Covert Ops Training

Powers:
Level 1: Radiance (Accelerated Metabolism)
Level 1: Conviction
Level 6: Implosion Engine
Level 8: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 11: Protection Field (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Aura of Arcane Clarity (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Masterful Dodge (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Electric Sheath (Rank 2, Matter ? Energy Union)
Level 23: Sparkstorm (Rank 2, Electric Personality, Challenging Strikes)
Level 26: Sonic Device (Rank 2, Deafening Dissolution)
Level 29: Ego Storm (Rank 2, Malevolent Manifestation)
Level 32: Pounce (Crippling Challenge)
Level 35: Inertial Dampening Field
Level 38: Rebirth

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Swinging (Rank 2, Flippin')
Level 35: Teleportation

Specializations:
Intelligence: Preparation (1/2)
Intelligence: Tactician (1/2)
Intelligence: Battle of Wits (3/3)
Intelligence: Revitalize (3/3)
Intelligence: Expertise (2/2)
Protector: Fortified Gear (1/3)
Protector: Unrelenting (2/2)
Protector: Bulwark (2/2)
Protector: Defensive Expertise (3/3)
Protector: Resolute (2/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: The Rush of Battle (3/3)
Vindicator: Offensive Expertise (2/2)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (3/3)
Mastery: Protector Mastery (1/1)

+S

monaahiru

As my Jewel Blueberry is copy+arrange build of Wes, I can figure out how he worked hard to make up his build. This type of builds are very busy to control and also require hell amounts of high Mods.

We need High amount of INT, Revitalize, and also need Nanobot Swarm, but still cant make true "permanent" even it seems like so... That's the reason we have to run and fly away anywhere to survive.

Stun or Knock, will affect well to those kind of builds. Yes.

I won't say those are easy to kill but... those kind of builds has some problem. Can't do so many things as you know.




I can't stop touching myself too. This feels good...xD

gwanfoogoldstein

I used Nanobot Swarm, then analyzed it... it wasn't really helping at all.

Cooldown gear, Int, AoAC was enough with revitalize to drop my Masterful Dodge down to 99% constant, as you'll see in the video in another 8 hours of uploading :P

NB was a waste of a power and of 4 advantage points, it is only really useful if you want to double stack an active offense for a spike. I doubt they will even "fix" the Int scaling issue with Nanobot Swarm, it is probably intended.

+S

wimpazoid

I have the luxury of watching Wes' character die many times already.

<runs for the exit>

somebob

monaahiru wrote: »

We need High amount of INT, Revitalize, and also need Nanobot Swarm, but still cant make true "permanent" even it seems like so... That's the reason we have to run and fly away anywhere to survive.

Yeah, as already mentioned above, Nanobot Swarm is (still) bugged. Int causes the amount it reduces all cooldowns by to be reduced. Apparently somebody put the coding in backwards and (still) hasn't fixed it yet.

Long, long, LONG (long) standing bug.

agentnx5

venompapa wrote: »

Thanks the answers from everybody, i think better if i run tests on these things before post anything here x_X
So anyway, i did give a testrun for similar build and now i see whats up.

Yay that's the spirit! Tests, tests, and more tests. SCIENCE! (jk, but you get my point now) Bruce Willis voice, "Welcome to the party pal!"

I think you'll find that many people on the forums really know their stuff, and that's because they've been researching, communicating, and debating about builds and powers for a long time.

Finding counters to specialist builds like Wes's one is something of an art almost with PvP-loving players in this game. You know you're starting to get it down when somebody can whoop you in the first round, but because they showed you their hand, you make
some adjustments to capitalize on their weaknesses and get them consistently instead in successive rounds. Sometimes they are your build's ideal counter and you just can't beat that. That's ok. That happens sometimes.

But you'd be surpised how far creative thinking, quiet patience, extensive knowledge of the powers, and combat skills can take you. And what you learn in PvP will make you stronger in PvE too! It's win-win.

^_^

monaahiru wrote: »

my Jewel Blueberry

Ah so THAT'S who you are! The forum change debacle still has me trying to figure out who's who.

Yes, your build is quite aggravting to fight if you don't know it's counters ahead of time.

Hmm, you used to use Might build stuff though if I recall (i.e.: roomsweeper and enrage), correct?

monaahiru

agentnx5 wrote: »

Hmm, you used to use Might build stuff though if I recall (i.e.: roomsweeper and enrage), correct?

Yes it's my Jewel Apple. :biggrin:
I was on board for while so I have blank for about 1 year. Couldn't do CO on the sea. xD

monaahiru

Type miss bit drunk. >.<

wesleytansg

Hahaha Jewel + Fruit Name yup that's monahiruu. Recent addition is Dark Cherry LOL.

Here's a name for you Jewel, Fruitti Tutti :P

raighn

In my experience, using Int Primary on my Sorcery Hero, the Revitalize spec really doesn't reduce CDs by that much at all. Since my build is based around Sigils, I spend most of my time watching everything on cool-down while spamming my energy builder in a futile attempt to reduce my CD time to 0 so I can recast and move my sigils to where my target has run off to. Quite honestly, every build that can actually benefit from this spec has major drawbacks to them that make the builds themselves very undesirable.