Primus

gerberatetra

Now I know Primus has taken something of a secondary role in the CO universe [to be frank in the MMO they're kind of a whipping boy] but I'd like a lore question clarified..


When was Primus really founded?

I know the latest editions of Champions Universe say it was 1986

However Classic organizations [and of course the book it pulls from] and the Primus book by Shelley Chrystal Mactyre indicate a much earlier founding that makes a good deal more sense.

If this is cannon [and it is, given the latest book being more 'correct'] Why did it get pushed forward and is this also true for the CO universe?

gerberatetra

Hmm nm I'll post this in the 'questions for Steve' thread as I should have in the first place

thequestionman

Timeline - Champions Universe 4th Edition and 5th Edition.
1964 PRIMUS created by the Lyndon Administration


Cheers


QM

gerberatetra

Champions Universe 6th edition, pg 25

1986: The United States government founds
PRIMUS, an anti-supercrime law enforcement
agency roughly equivalent to UNTIL.

iamrune

Well, Cryptic owns the IP now, and the in-game information about Primus and Until match the 5th edition as far as it's fouding date, which was in the sixties as a responce to the emergence of Viper and the many metahumans coming from out of seemingly nowhere.

1986 sounds like the correct year date for when the Registration bill might have passed, giving Primus legal jurisdiction over American Metahuman registration.

gerberatetra

Yea, this I know about Criptic and the IP.

I was more curious of the PnP lore [thus why it was posted here, not elsewhere]

In any case, I'm inclined to suspect that the 1986 listing in 6th is a mistake, it doesn't' make a whole lot of sense and needlessly voids the only written material for this group.

I'm kind of the 'lore monkey' for my SG and wanted to clarify this, since the In Game material is a bit .. vague at times.

fr0gurt

I looked up the timeline in Champions Universe, and the 1986 date looks to be intentional.

The U.S. government did not directly involve itself in superhuman operations until 1969 when it created it's first "official" superhero, the All-American, in response to social unrest of that time. They started a superhuman survey in 1972, passed a registration act in 1980 after an attack by Dr. Destroyer, and founded PRIMUS in 1986 after an attack by Mechanon.

Up until then, it appears that most superheroing was done by private groups or individuals such as Black Mask, Vanguard, or the Fabulous Five. Also, the U.S. goverment would incoporate superhumans into existing organizations such as "Ameriforce One", a SEAL team composed entirely of superhumans.

gerberatetra

Intentional, perhaps. But a mistake. All prior editions of Champions set the earlier date, the only books on the subject [all two] set the date much earlier.

Your reasoning is sound from a certain point of view. However there are issues with it, the main one being the ban on Until rested in part [in prior editions] on their being redundant in the US. Also the lore reasons for it's founding started a long time ago.


The Original Primus and Demon [the two were in one source-book at first, and again alter in Classic organizations] outlines how Primus was conceived by Jonathon Hawkins after his experiences in WW2. Basically he outlined how ordinary police forces would be helpless against a superhuman threat in a report to the Joint Chiefs in the 50's.

Eventually, Primus was, on paper at least, founded ..

Primus from the 1998 e-book;

The life?s work of General Jonathan Hawkins, the agency known as PRIMUS was signed into existence in October, 1964 by President Lyndon Johnson. PRIMUS stands for ?Primary Response and Interdiction Military Unified Service.? During the early years, PRIMUS was a military group, answering to the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Congress initially balked at funding the Avenger program...

For a long time [similar to the rocky start for Until, but a bit longer] Primus was jsut a paper tiger. Almost literately only existing on paper. It eventually got off the ground..

Sadly the two books don't really agree, the 98 e-book takes a much darker tone probably because of the time it was written in. But safe to say the CO lore is sketchy enough to agree with either version.


Ultimately Primus and Until seem to represent SHEILD in their national, and international phases in the comics. Not as a rip off, but in the same loving homage or place filler that other Champions characters are often based.

Viper is a dead on example of this, on the Villain side..

snowwall

I know this is an old thread, but I had to reply after reading it.

In the original paper and dice Champions PRIMUS was started in the 1960's as a long term commission to study the problem of law enforcement in a super powered world and then take the steps necessary to combat supercriminals. That study took a while along with the extensive equipment development and development of the super soldiers who were meant to use that equipment. While the super soldier part was not as successful as originally hoped it resulted in the Gold Avenger and the later Silver Avengers even if it could not be universally applied to agents. By 1986, after two decades of preparation, the program was deemed ready to go so that is its official start date as a LEO.

To cover the long gap while PRIMUS was being readied the government formed a paramilitary organization called SAT at the same time in the 1960's that started out with off-the-shelf weapons but soon were running an early and bulky power armor to combat super powered threats. The other reason for SAT that was not advertised was to keep UNTIL out of the country because certain factions of the government could not tolerate the idea of foreign agents operating on US soil no matter how much they were needed to stop the threat of supercriminals.

Once PRIMUS came online SAT was supposed to be disbanded but political maneuvering and favors have kept them going as a kind of semi-private security force.