Are players who played the game without subbing but still put money into the game NOT supporters?
I agree wholeheartedly in principle. Unfortunately, the accountants don't see it that way.
Free to play players aren't necessarily putting money in regularly. Also, they don't have an incentive to continue paying money. They don't lose access to their characters like gold users do when they downgrade to silver.
Also, it's been a long standing attitude in the industry that a player who pays for a game and never plays it is the best player you could have. They're giving you money and they're not eating up your bandwidth. So as far as they're concerned, the vet reward is an incentive to continue paying money regularly, even if you're not playing the game.
Give a 1000 day Vet reward to a brand new lifetime subscriber the moment they subscribe, hear the rest of the monthly subscribers grab their torches and pitchforks.
I'm already a 1000 day Vet reward so my position on the matter isn't really on solid ground. It wouldn't matter to me if new LTS'ers get their rewards instantly, but I'm thinking of the repurcussions that might be involved.
Give a 1000 day Vet reward to a brand new lifetime subscriber the moment they subscribe, hear the rest of the monthly subscribers grab their torches and pitchforks.
I'm already a 1000 day Vet reward so my position on the matter isn't really on solid ground. It wouldn't matter to me if new LTS'ers get their rewards instantly, but I'm thinking of the repurcussions that might be involved.
The difference is that the non-lifetime subscribers can cancel at any time. Lifetimers can't. A lump sum was paid upfront. The account is good till the game shuts down or the user gets banned. There would be no torches and pitchforks. Heck, the non-1000 day veteran lifetimers are already getting out their torches and pitchforks. So it seems to me that the whole "torches and pitchforks" argument is moot, because if the argument were valid, at best all you could argue is that it would replace one group with torches and pitchforks for another group with torches and pitchforks.
Its a worth and well deserved reward for people who have been around since launch, Im far from getting that reward myself but Im not jealous. This game is great and all people who have been around since launch and worked through years to improve it deserve this recogition.
Its not about money, its about loyalty, people who have been around all this time added a lot more to this game than someone who may have joined the other day, wants to spend maybe 20 dollars on it and then move to another game. If you stayed all this time around you probably helped to test things, brought friends to the game, spent money on it, exposed your ideas to improve it or just added statistics to the game population through years.
Its a help that has no price, maybe the game wouldnt even be here anymore if not for those players, its a great reward for great players, it shouldnt be given away for a few dollars to anyone and their mothers, its their reward.
I don't need rewards for 1000 days if I'm not here a 1000 days..
I do have a LTS and I like the feeling when I look and I see I almost get my reward and logging in al my alts and get the recton, perk etc. I don't want them now.. I rather wait..
I have a lifetime left and I'm not planning to stop with this game anytime soon..
Its a worth and well deserved reward for people who have been around since launch, Im far from getting that reward myself but Im not jealous. This game is great and all people who have been around since launch and worked through years to improve it deserve this recogition.
Its not about money, its about loyalty, people who have been around all this time added a lot more to this game than someone who may have joined the other day, wants to spend maybe 20 dollars on it and then move to another game. If you stayed all this time around you probably helped to test things, brought friends to the game, spent money on it, exposed your ideas to improve it or just added statistics to the game population through years.
Its a help that has no price, maybe the game wouldnt even be here anymore if not for those players, its a great reward for great players, it shouldnt be given away for a few dollars to anyone and their mothers, its their reward.
Excellent point.
Consider players like Kenpo, Falchoin, Pantagruel, and so many others who have tested, helped devs find solutions to problems, assisted in the development of community, answered new player questions, posted guides and so on to help CO become a better game.
Has someone who joins the game today and buys an LTS tomorrow contributed as much as they have ?
Sorry for going back and forth, I guess I just see some really good arguments no each side.
I don't need rewards for 1000 days if I'm not here a 1000 days..
I do have a LTS and I like the feeling when I look and I see I almost get my reward and logging in al my alts and get the recton, perk etc. I don't want them now.. I rather wait..
I have a lifetime left and I'm not planning to stop with this game anytime soon..
What's more, us buying LTS back then meant that we believed the game could bring us enjoyment for at least the 13 minutes it would take to pay itself off at a monthly subscription rate.
Perhaps you meant 13 months?
_________________________________________________
I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.
Willie Nelson
T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
Its a worth and well deserved reward for people who have been around since launch, Im far from getting that reward myself but Im not jealous. This game is great and all people who have been around since launch and worked through years to improve it deserve this recogition.
Its not about money, its about loyalty, people who have been around all this time added a lot more to this game than someone who may have joined the other day, wants to spend maybe 20 dollars on it and then move to another game. If you stayed all this time around you probably helped to test things, brought friends to the game, spent money on it, exposed your ideas to improve it or just added statistics to the game population through years.
Its a help that has no price, maybe the game wouldnt even be here anymore if not for those players, its a great reward for great players, it shouldnt be given away for a few dollars to anyone and their mothers, its their reward.
Consider players like Kenpo, Falchoin, Pantagruel, and so many others who have tested, helped devs find solutions to problems, assisted in the development of community, answered new player questions, posted guides and so on to help CO become a better game.
Has someone who joins the game today and buys an LTS tomorrow contributed as much as they have ?
Sorry for going back and forth, I guess I just see some really good arguments no each side.
But what about the player that joined last April has to have EVERY travel power in the game has just under 360 days subbed bought a lifetime in this March just past.
They need to wait another 600+ days \o/
Makes for a very pissed undead neko that fact we know. Ive subbed for most of a year bought all the TPs and then shelled out for a LTS I wants my sparkle flight nowz :O
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
But what about the player that joined last April has to have EVERY travel power in the game has just under 360 days subbed bought a lifetime in this March just past.
They need to wait another 600+ days \o/
Makes for a very pissed undead neko that fact we know. Ive subbed for most of a year bought all the TPs and then shelled out for a LTS I wants my sparkle flight nowz :O
Well exceptions would obviously have to be made for Egyptian Cat people.
Its a worth and well deserved reward for people who have been around since launch, Im far from getting that reward myself but Im not jealous. This game is great and all people who have been around since launch and worked through years to improve it deserve this recogition.
Its not about money, its about loyalty, people who have been around all this time added a lot more to this game than someone who may have joined the other day, wants to spend maybe 20 dollars on it and then move to another game. If you stayed all this time around you probably helped to test things, brought friends to the game, spent money on it, exposed your ideas to improve it or just added statistics to the game population through years.
Its a help that has no price, maybe the game wouldnt even be here anymore if not for those players, its a great reward for great players, it shouldnt be given away for a few dollars to anyone and their mothers, its their reward.
Perhaps the most level-headed post thus far to justify time-lapsed vet rewards applying to LTS'ers as they do monthly subscribers. I do agree with it much.
I didnt mind waiting for a costume set before. i was excited to get my 400 day reward, but 20 days after i got it , it became available in drops. I'm lifetime so i've already paid for 900 and 1000 days. why should those sets be exclusive while mine is not. I'm not asking for a handout, just give us a way to get those sets earlier. honestly if you need to make money why not sell every piece in the game. and don't tell me cryptic isn't about making money when i see the catalyst upgrade prices.
I don't reallly understand what they were going for with the tights, they don't really work too well with anything (including themselves) and the flight makes you look like a sparkler or a Christmas tree ornament.
But either way, no. You have to wait your 1000 days like everyone else in every other game that has vet rewards.
Why? Because the rest of us had to wait (some longer than 1k days and are actually closer to the 1100 day mark). We're still subscribers, we just happened to have paid all at once up front.
I don't reallly understand what they were going for with the tights, they don't really work too well with anything (including themselves) and the flight makes you look like a sparkler or a Christmas tree ornament.
But either way, no. You have to wait your 1000 days like everyone else in every other game that has vet rewards.
Why? Because the rest of us had to wait (some longer than 1k days and are actually closer to the 1100 day mark). We're still subscribers, we just happened to have paid all at once up front.
yeah it's not the 1000 day reward i want its the 900.
and since my 400 day costume was made into a drop, why shouldn't the 900 day as well, cryptic has already started a precedent. or will they wait till im just past that benchmark to offer it too, which is unfair to those that subscribed during the free2play, its not my fault i didn't know the game existed until then.had i known about it before i would have joined.
and since my 400 day costume was made into a drop, why shouldn't the 900 day as well, cryptic has already started a precedent. or will they wait till im just past that benchmark to offer it too, which is unfair to those that subscribed during the free2play, its not my fault i didn't know the game existed until then.had i known about it before i would have joined.
Maybe you would have... maybe you wouldn't. Without a time machine, this argument is invalid.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Are players who played the game without subbing but still put money into the game NOT supporters?
They totally are supporters. They are NOT long time supporters.
I would agree with the mentality if this was an item up for sale, but it's not. It's meant to be a reward for sticking with the game for an extended period of time.
The reward for quantities of cash spent is the items you've purchased.
its not my fault i didn't know the game existed until then.had i known about it before i would have joined.
Man, that's a whole other bag of ****ed up I'm not even going to get in to. I think we've all pretty much come to accept that Champs is simply existing at this point because Cryptic needs to retain it's superhero pedigree/rep that it built off CoX like a "Remember us? We did that stuff!" intro card while it builds on STO and NW and that reputation.
See? I said I wasn't going to get into it and then I did. I don't wanna talk about it. :mad:
out of context, this is basicly my first MMO and i did not know it existed before f2p. i was living in Asia at that time. i played the pen and paper. my last comment should be looked at with everything else. its the sum of it all not the individual comments.
But right or not, Cryptic should look at the effects of these things, making such long term rewards in a game that has mostly newer players, where the older players even state that they don't spend any money on this game, seems to piss off more people than it pleases. that for a game that needs to win over more new players isn't good PR. the 1000 day vets have already paid for their lifetimes twice over. plus they aren't going anywhere. If they made the powers and costumes available by other means(maybe the q store) it would not make the reward less of a reward. It just wouldn't be exclusive for such a small group of people. It really is just creating resentment and drama in its present form. cryptic already has 2 precedents for giving away vet rewards in other ways, the large Nephilim armor as drops and VIP caprice for lifetimes. When things are or feel unobtainable to a person , they might just give up. example Action Figures: i don't bother with them because its impossible to get them all. Grond, Sapphire and Silverback can no longer be earned or bought, so why even try. Pre patch i worked hard to get every costume piece in the game i bought every costume set. so I am a person that supports this game. in business you cater to those that support you. alot of the PVPer have left. but the RPers and costume junkies have stuck with the game. again, not asking that the sets be given away, getting it for free is the vets reward. just make it obtainable by other means. perhaps a spending benchmark or just by g, zen, questionite ,perk rewards or events.
But right or not, Cryptic should look at the effects of these things, making such long term rewards in a game that has mostly newer players, where SOME OF the older players even state that they don't spend any money on this game, seems to piss off more people than it pleases. that for a game that needs to win over more new players isn't good PR
unless you consider a reward for subscribing for a longer period of time to be good PR .
the 1000 day vets have already paid for their lifetimes twice over. plus they aren't going anywhere. If they made the powers and costumes available by other means(maybe the q store) it would not make the reward less of a reward
not really something you can accurately state unless you have the reward
. It just wouldn't be exclusive for such a small group of people. It really is just creating resentment and drama in its present form. cryptic already has 2 precedents for giving away vet rewards in other ways, the large Nephilim armor as drops and VIP caprice for lifetimes. When things are or feel unobtainable to a person , they might just give up. example Action Figures: i don't bother with them because its impossible to get them all. Grond, Sapphire and Silverback can no longer be earned or bought, so why even try. Pre patch i worked hard to get every costume piece in the game i bought every costume set. so I am a person that supports this game. in business you cater to those that support you. alot of the PVPer have left. but the RPers and costume junkies have stuck with the game an odd statement considering that most people who tried CO have left, and PvPers have always been a tiny minority. This means that more non PvPers (such as RPers and costume junkies) have left than PvPers. again, not asking that the sets be given away, getting it for free is the vets reward. just make it obtainable by other means. perhaps a spending benchmark or just by g, zen, questionite ,perk rewards or events.
Commentary in lime.
Simple question, do you think that you are more deserving, or entitled than others who had to wait to get the rewards ?
I honestly doubt that you do. But much of what is being said gives that impression.
Simple question, do you think that you are more deserving, or entitled than others who had to wait to get the rewards ?
I honestly doubt that you do. But much of what is being said gives that impression.
no im saying cryptic has given away vet rewards for other reasons before and it made me not believe in the vet reward system, since they gave away the 400 day reward 20 days after i got it, after wanting it for the whole time and not complaining then. also your comment is masked trolling.
I don't need rewards for 1000 days if I'm not here a 1000 days..
I do have a LTS and I like the feeling when I look and I see I almost get my reward and logging in al my alts and get the recton, perk etc. I don't want them now.. I rather wait..
I have a lifetime left and I'm not planning to stop with this game anytime soon..
I don't need rewards for 1000 days even if I am here for 1000 days. So in my view, your argument there is kind of toothless... The only reason people, including myself, kept asking "Where's the 1000 day vet reward?" is because Cryptic established a 100 day interval vet reward tradition with both CO and STO.
If they stopped doing the reward, people would get pissy, throw hissy fits, but ultimately, any 1000 day vet has most likely been here for more than 1000 days. We've all put up with enormous amounts of horse sh*t from both other players and the staff. Anybody remember Daeke? Or Bill Rope's whole "look at my shoes, my shoes are amazing, give'em a lick, mm tastes just like fire" crap. Seriously, the man photographed his shoes and put them on the forums... HIS SHOES...
So yeah, we've put up with a lot of crap and we can put up with a total loss of vet rewards entirely. We wouldn't like it, but we'd put up with it. I doubt more than 1 or 2 would even rage quit for longer than it takes to calm down.
no im saying cryptic has given away vet rewards for other reasons before and it made me not believe in the vet reward system, since they gave away the 400 day reward 20 days after i got it, after wanting it for the whole time and not complaining then. also your comment is masked trolling.
Cryptic even gave away lifetime rewards for other reasons...
Imagine this: You're told in July or August of 2009, before Champions came out "Star Trek Online is coming out early next year. If you buy a lifetime account on Champions Online, we'll give you an exclusive uniform for Star Trek Online. An Original Series Mirror Universe uniform."
What they didn't tell you is that the uniform was males only. (sound familiar? costume stuff being male only?) There was a 3 month long fight between Cryptic and all of us CO lifetimers on STO. Finally they gave us the female version of the uniform. Suddenly, there were huge numbers of players seeing what amounted to maybe half a dozen CO lifetimer captains running around scantly clad with thigh high boots, mini skirts, and halter tops looking like real 1960s femme fatale gogo dancers that the entire community was all "I WANT THAT UNIFORM! I WANT THAT UNIFORM! I WANT THAT UNIFORM!" So Cryptic put the uniform on the CStore for 250cp for the equivilent of about $3.12 USD. That's right, a uniform you had to spend $200 to get ended up being reduced in price to $3.12...
I've been incredibly sore with Cryptic ever since. Yet here I am, saying that I would not be up in arms if all lifetimers got access to the 1000 day vet rewards. Why? Because I didn't subscribe for 1000 days, I paid a lump sum equivalent to 13 months upfront at a monthly rate.
I believe the only people who would have a problem with it are the ones who have been doing monthly subs since the game came out and managed to qualify for it. I say those people should have bought a lifetime account when they were initially being sold because they've wasted a lot of money in the long run.
And now someone whose done exactly that is probably going to show up (The Last?) and complain that they didn't get more vet reward than the preorder lifetimers like myself, because he's paid more in subscriptions than me. (except that I've sunk on the order of $3500 into this game all together. Yeah, I'm what hte industry calls a "whale")
The 1000 day vet reward travel power is blinding wish they would have toned it down a little.
Anyways wheres my 1100 day veteran reward :biggrin: times a ticking
Subscribed For: 1063 Days
j/k
Oh I definitely agree that it should be toned down. I have it on a character called Luminary however, and it suits her well. Also I'm 1062 days myself.
I've been incredibly sore with Cryptic ever since. Yet here I am, saying that I would not be up in arms if all lifetimers got access to the 1000 day vet rewards. Why? Because I didn't subscribe for 1000 days, I paid a lump sum equivalent to 13 months upfront at a monthly rate.
This brings up an interesting concept. So, people are paying 300 dollars for their lifetime subscription, which is the equivalent of 20 months, about 600 days. So, at most, it would be reasonable to give LTS all the veteran rewards up to the 600 day reward right away.
However, because LTS does not spend any money on subscription after that, they would still have to wait 700 actual days from the day they bought their LTS before they were eligable for the 700 day reward. They have paid for the privilege of not having to wait 600 days for those rewards, but they did not pay for the privelage of not having to wait 700 days for the next reward.
This would not be adjusted for those who only paid 200 for their LTS, because they were buying the exact same thing as those who paid 300, just at a discount. After all, if you buy a bag of chips 50% off, they don't take half the chips out when you pay.
One could argue that because they're no longer spending money, as a regular subscriber would, that they aren't eligable for the 700 reward and beyond...but the word lifetime is in LTS so it is implied that they are subscribing for life, even if they aren't continuing to pay.
note: I only qouted the above because it was what brought out this idea.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Well, we can go on about whether or not anyone with a LTS should automatically be entitled to -enter x amount of days- vet rewards, but the bottom line is that it's far too late to consider just giving the 1000 day reward to every LTS players who don't meet the time-elapsed requirement without facing a potential PR storm from the older LTS players who had to earn the rewards the hard way. In such a case, might as well stop calling them "Veteran rewards" and rename them to something else like "exclusive gold rewards" or something. The term "Veteran" indicates that someone has had a measure of experience that is only gained through investment of time and effort doesn't it?
Once again to clarify my stance on the matter and being a 1000 day vet myself, it wouldn't matter either way to me, but I can't speak for all LTS players who waited that long to get the reward.
Knowing Cryptic, they would have given LTS all the Veterans rewards if it wasn't for having to reprogram how they are given.
I would say that having the Foundry automatically pushes STO well above the content level CO has. And we've been dying for Guild bases long before hideouts were on the radar.
But I guess I can be thankful that we will maybe get a better version than what STO has in both cases when it comes here.
This would not be adjusted for those who only paid 200 for their LTS, because they were buying the exact same thing as those who paid 300, just at a discount. After all, if you buy a bag of chips 50% off, they don't take half the chips out when you pay.
Sorry about picking on you again, Smoosan. Most of your idea sounds tenable and could be a fair compromise for all, but it's unlikely to be implemented.
The part of what you said that I quoted, however. I have to take issue with that. That would be like saying that people who bought a loaf of bread for 5 cents a loaf back in the 1950s got it at a discount because the same bread is now a dollar a loaf. There isn't a discount, the price was raised.
You might have something with the analogy if the $200 LTS was advertised as an introductory rate, but it wasn't. It was advertised as being that you could buy it until 11:59pm on August 31st, 2009. With there being absolutely no promise that they'd ever sell it again. In fact, they even implied it would never be available again at any rate.
Well, we can go on about whether or not anyone with a LTS should automatically be entitled to -enter x amount of days- vet rewards, but the bottom line is that it's far too late to consider just giving the 1000 day reward to every LTS players who don't meet the time-elapsed requirement without facing a potential PR storm from the older LTS players who had to earn the rewards the hard way.
I didn't earn the 1000 day vet reward the hard way. I earned the cheap way... That is I paid 66% the amount people buying LTS now are buying it for. That's how I earned it. If I hadn't spent a single dime since then, I'd still be getting the vet rewards. Even if I never played the game at all after release, I'd still get the vet rewards. That's not earning it the hard way. That's not even really earning it. If anything, it's an insult to people who paid monthly fees for all 1000 days...
I didn't earn the 1000 day vet reward the hard way. I earned the cheap way... That is I paid 66% the amount people buying LTS now are buying it for. That's how I earned it. If I hadn't spent a single dime since then, I'd still be getting the vet rewards. Even if I never played the game at all after release, I'd still get the vet rewards. That's not earning it the hard way. That's not even really earning it. If anything, it's an insult to people who paid monthly fees for all 1000 days...
When I said the "hard" way, I was refering to the time-elapsed factor, irregardless how often the LTS player logs into the game, or any monetary factor. Giving the same reward to newly-joined LTS players the moment they pay for the subscription can be viewed as a slap to the face of the older LTS ones.
I'm seeing very little justification to LTS players saying they're entitled to all applicable time-elapsed vet rewards upfront based on the mindset that just they're subscribed for the lifetime of the game. I just don't see the logical connection here. From what I understand, a lifetime subscription allows you to pay a lump sum upfront and avoid paying for further monthly subscription fees from the entirety of the service's lifespan while remaining as a subscriber throughout. That's it. If anything, time elapsed rewards show no bias and treats no subscriber as being more favored than others, and I feel that it's better that way.
Knowing Cryptic, they would have given LTS all the Veterans rewards if it wasn't for having to reprogram how they are given.
I would say that having the Foundry automatically pushes STO well above the content level CO has. And we've been dying for Guild bases long before hideouts were on the radar.
But I guess I can be thankful that we will maybe get a better version than what STO has in both cases when it comes here.
That's what I'm afraid of. With STO getting all the new gadgets, I'm fairly sure that they have no problems abandoning CO at this point. We may never get another stitch of content, really. The last content addition was not even made by Cryptic, but the players. (At least, I'm pretty sure)
However, they did finally go into the Bio window and turn wordwrap on, but is that really a big deal?
I'm not saying I wouldn't like foundry, bases, etc., but have you guys actually played STO?
Playing casually I reached max level and completed all of the non-foundry content in 2 weeks. After almost 3 years I've only got one character in CO that's done everything. STO needs new shinies because it's on life support. I can tell you from my time there that there is 0 reason to go gold on it and little to no reason to shop at the store.
Champions needs to start restricting Alerts to 30+ or they may end up in the same boat. I'm positive there are players out there who I several maxed characters that have never left MC that constantly bemoan that there is nothing to do.
This means they are going to focus more developement on trying to save STO. They aen't abandoning CO they're just not giving the healthy child as much attention as they decide whether to pull the plug on the other.
P.S.
All of you whining that you should get all the rewards because you bought a lifetime sub yesterday. When this game first came out, the lifetime sub was a limited time offer. It was an actual show of loyalty and faith in the product. In addition, vet rewards are nothing new and they are always rewarded for active time. They are meant to be special. They are meant to make the have-nots want them badly. They are carrots.
I didn't earn the 1000 day vet reward the hard way. I earned the cheap way... That is I paid 66% the amount people buying LTS now are buying it for. That's how I earned it. If I hadn't spent a single dime since then, I'd still be getting the vet rewards. Even if I never played the game at all after release, I'd still get the vet rewards. That's not earning it the hard way. That's not even really earning it. If anything, it's an insult to people who paid monthly fees for all 1000 days...
You did however pay at a time when there was no such thing as Vet Rewards and the last game Roper headed that had a LTS had just bombed hard. Of course, plenty of people had faith that CO wouldn't do that.
You did however pay at a time when there was no such thing as Vet Rewards and the last game Roper headed that had a LTS had just bombed hard. Of course, plenty of people had faith that CO wouldn't do that.
There were quite a few people with buyer's remorse and Cryptic actually did hand out refunds on LTS for the first little while.
I had some trepidation myself, but decided to stick with it and see what happened. It truly felt like a gamble at that point.
When I said the "hard" way, I was refering to the time-elapsed factor, irregardless how often the LTS player logs into the game, or any monetary factor. Giving the same reward to newly-joined LTS players the moment they pay for the subscription can be viewed as a slap to the face of the older LTS ones.
I don't see how. The older LTS folk already have theirs. Like I keep saying, the only people it'd truly be an insult to are the people who have subscribed monthly the entire time. Those people are the ones who truly earned it. They are the ones who kept putting money in, month after month, just for the right to play the game. But as it is, preorder lifetime is just as much of an insult to them.
I'm seeing very little justification to LTS players saying they're entitled to all applicable time-elapsed vet rewards upfront based on the mindset that just they're subscribed for the lifetime of the game. I just don't see the logical connection here. From what I understand, a lifetime subscription allows you to pay a lump sum upfront and avoid paying for further monthly subscription fees from the entirety of the service's lifespan while remaining as a subscriber throughout. That's it. If anything, time elapsed rewards show no bias and treats no subscriber as being more favored than others, and I feel that it's better that way.
I do not consider LTS to be a true subscription. A subscription, to me anyway, implies a recurring fee. There is no recurring fee for LTS folk.
Frankly, I don't have a dog in this fight. Neither do any of us pre-order LTS people. Perhaps if one of us has a friend who has LTS but bought it recently, then they'd have a dog in the fight. Point is, because we don't have a dog in the fight, it doesn't matter to us which way the fight goes. It's all the same to us either way.
And it does actually treat some in a more favorable ligh than others. Silvers still get no veteran rewards. I think they should get SOMETHING for their loyalty. It's also treating preorder lifetimers better than people who subscribed monthly since day 1, since we're getting the same rewards they are, but we get them for pretty much free now. Subscription revenue wise we're no better than silver players who used to be subscribers that only played for the first year and quit.
I'm not saying I wouldn't like foundry, bases, etc., but have you guys actually played STO?
Playing casually I reached max level and completed all of the non-foundry content in 2 weeks. After almost 3 years I've only got one character in CO that's done everything. STO needs new shinies because it's on life support. I can tell you from my time there that there is 0 reason to go gold on it and little to no reason to shop at the store.
I could do that on an AT in CO in a few days if I had the entire time off from work. A couple weeks if I didn't. The comparison kind of falls apart at the point when you realize that CO isn't any better.
Comments
I say: Vet awards should be given out for TIME PLAYED period If you have a lifetime thats good for you, I have freinds that have lts and DO NOT PLAY
Awards are incentive to PLAY THE GAME, nothing more, nothing less
Further, if you remove all the ftp people, this place would get lonely real fast, they should get some type of vet awards as well...period.
Excuse me I hear a steak needs eating:cool:
I agree wholeheartedly in principle. Unfortunately, the accountants don't see it that way.
Free to play players aren't necessarily putting money in regularly. Also, they don't have an incentive to continue paying money. They don't lose access to their characters like gold users do when they downgrade to silver.
Also, it's been a long standing attitude in the industry that a player who pays for a game and never plays it is the best player you could have. They're giving you money and they're not eating up your bandwidth. So as far as they're concerned, the vet reward is an incentive to continue paying money regularly, even if you're not playing the game.
Again, I agree, but unfortunately, again, PWE's and Cryptic's accountants don't see it that way.
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I'm already a 1000 day Vet reward so my position on the matter isn't really on solid ground. It wouldn't matter to me if new LTS'ers get their rewards instantly, but I'm thinking of the repurcussions that might be involved.
The difference is that the non-lifetime subscribers can cancel at any time. Lifetimers can't. A lump sum was paid upfront. The account is good till the game shuts down or the user gets banned. There would be no torches and pitchforks. Heck, the non-1000 day veteran lifetimers are already getting out their torches and pitchforks. So it seems to me that the whole "torches and pitchforks" argument is moot, because if the argument were valid, at best all you could argue is that it would replace one group with torches and pitchforks for another group with torches and pitchforks.
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Not just sit, play skyrim, and get a reward anyways ??
NOOOOO!!! I cannot use my signature ascii stare!!! WHY!?!?!
Is the negation symbol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negation
=^ _ ^= Kitty Lives!
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Its not about money, its about loyalty, people who have been around all this time added a lot more to this game than someone who may have joined the other day, wants to spend maybe 20 dollars on it and then move to another game. If you stayed all this time around you probably helped to test things, brought friends to the game, spent money on it, exposed your ideas to improve it or just added statistics to the game population through years.
Its a help that has no price, maybe the game wouldnt even be here anymore if not for those players, its a great reward for great players, it shouldnt be given away for a few dollars to anyone and their mothers, its their reward.
I do have a LTS and I like the feeling when I look and I see I almost get my reward and logging in al my alts and get the recton, perk etc. I don't want them now.. I rather wait..
I have a lifetime left and I'm not planning to stop with this game anytime soon..
Excellent point.
Consider players like Kenpo, Falchoin, Pantagruel, and so many others who have tested, helped devs find solutions to problems, assisted in the development of community, answered new player questions, posted guides and so on to help CO become a better game.
Has someone who joins the game today and buys an LTS tomorrow contributed as much as they have ?
Sorry for going back and forth, I guess I just see some really good arguments no each side.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
What a ridiculous way to say "look at me...I've been subbed for 1000 days".
To each their own I guess...but sometimes I think to much is to much.
Then again...I also find the Magnifier and Super-Magnifier to be just as absurd...being nothing but a "look at me" device.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
My point exactly!!! :cool:
=^ _ ^= Kitty Lives!
I'm sorry, but this game is basically a "look at me!" contest of comic heroes. I like second life, but with missions, history arcs, and pew pews.
And this is why I love it very very very very much
=^ _ ^= Kitty Lives!
Perhaps you meant 13 months?
I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.
Willie Nelson
T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
signed ( Message Length )
@Quincy-St-Moth's PRIMUS page
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
But what about the player that joined last April has to have EVERY travel power in the game has just under 360 days subbed bought a lifetime in this March just past.
They need to wait another 600+ days \o/
Makes for a very pissed undead neko that fact we know. Ive subbed for most of a year bought all the TPs and then shelled out for a LTS I wants my sparkle flight nowz :O
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Well exceptions would obviously have to be made for Egyptian Cat people.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Child: "BUT I WANT IT NOW!!!!"
...parents nowadays tend to cave and get the kid the bicycle the next day. Coincidence?
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Perhaps the most level-headed post thus far to justify time-lapsed vet rewards applying to LTS'ers as they do monthly subscribers. I do agree with it much.
I don't reallly understand what they were going for with the tights, they don't really work too well with anything (including themselves) and the flight makes you look like a sparkler or a Christmas tree ornament.
But either way, no. You have to wait your 1000 days like everyone else in every other game that has vet rewards.
Why? Because the rest of us had to wait (some longer than 1k days and are actually closer to the 1100 day mark). We're still subscribers, we just happened to have paid all at once up front.
yeah it's not the 1000 day reward i want its the 900.
Maybe you would have... maybe you wouldn't. Without a time machine, this argument is invalid.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
I actually agree with this. Some silvers have been around since the launch of FFA and they should get some recognition as well.
I think that if you've had an active account you deserve the reward.
They totally are supporters. They are NOT long time supporters.
I would agree with the mentality if this was an item up for sale, but it's not. It's meant to be a reward for sticking with the game for an extended period of time.
The reward for quantities of cash spent is the items you've purchased.
Yeah, that's messed up, and shouldn't have happened.
Man, that's a whole other bag of ****ed up I'm not even going to get in to. I think we've all pretty much come to accept that Champs is simply existing at this point because Cryptic needs to retain it's superhero pedigree/rep that it built off CoX like a "Remember us? We did that stuff!" intro card while it builds on STO and NW and that reputation.
See? I said I wasn't going to get into it and then I did. I don't wanna talk about it. :mad:
Commentary in lime.
Simple question, do you think that you are more deserving, or entitled than others who had to wait to get the rewards ?
I honestly doubt that you do. But much of what is being said gives that impression.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
And their level cap has been 50 for some time with far less content than CO has. :eek:
Now if it's dis-content you wanted....
People are broken. - Lum the Mad
I don't need rewards for 1000 days even if I am here for 1000 days. So in my view, your argument there is kind of toothless... The only reason people, including myself, kept asking "Where's the 1000 day vet reward?" is because Cryptic established a 100 day interval vet reward tradition with both CO and STO.
If they stopped doing the reward, people would get pissy, throw hissy fits, but ultimately, any 1000 day vet has most likely been here for more than 1000 days. We've all put up with enormous amounts of horse sh*t from both other players and the staff. Anybody remember Daeke? Or Bill Rope's whole "look at my shoes, my shoes are amazing, give'em a lick, mm tastes just like fire" crap. Seriously, the man photographed his shoes and put them on the forums... HIS SHOES...
So yeah, we've put up with a lot of crap and we can put up with a total loss of vet rewards entirely. We wouldn't like it, but we'd put up with it. I doubt more than 1 or 2 would even rage quit for longer than it takes to calm down.
Cryptic even gave away lifetime rewards for other reasons...
Imagine this: You're told in July or August of 2009, before Champions came out "Star Trek Online is coming out early next year. If you buy a lifetime account on Champions Online, we'll give you an exclusive uniform for Star Trek Online. An Original Series Mirror Universe uniform."
What they didn't tell you is that the uniform was males only. (sound familiar? costume stuff being male only?) There was a 3 month long fight between Cryptic and all of us CO lifetimers on STO. Finally they gave us the female version of the uniform. Suddenly, there were huge numbers of players seeing what amounted to maybe half a dozen CO lifetimer captains running around scantly clad with thigh high boots, mini skirts, and halter tops looking like real 1960s femme fatale gogo dancers that the entire community was all "I WANT THAT UNIFORM! I WANT THAT UNIFORM! I WANT THAT UNIFORM!" So Cryptic put the uniform on the CStore for 250cp for the equivilent of about $3.12 USD. That's right, a uniform you had to spend $200 to get ended up being reduced in price to $3.12...
I've been incredibly sore with Cryptic ever since. Yet here I am, saying that I would not be up in arms if all lifetimers got access to the 1000 day vet rewards. Why? Because I didn't subscribe for 1000 days, I paid a lump sum equivalent to 13 months upfront at a monthly rate.
I believe the only people who would have a problem with it are the ones who have been doing monthly subs since the game came out and managed to qualify for it. I say those people should have bought a lifetime account when they were initially being sold because they've wasted a lot of money in the long run.
And now someone whose done exactly that is probably going to show up (The Last?) and complain that they didn't get more vet reward than the preorder lifetimers like myself, because he's paid more in subscriptions than me. (except that I've sunk on the order of $3500 into this game all together. Yeah, I'm what hte industry calls a "whale")
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Anyways wheres my 1100 day veteran reward :biggrin: times a ticking
Subscribed For: 1063 Days
j/k
Oh I definitely agree that it should be toned down. I have it on a character called Luminary however, and it suits her well. Also I'm 1062 days myself.
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This brings up an interesting concept. So, people are paying 300 dollars for their lifetime subscription, which is the equivalent of 20 months, about 600 days. So, at most, it would be reasonable to give LTS all the veteran rewards up to the 600 day reward right away.
However, because LTS does not spend any money on subscription after that, they would still have to wait 700 actual days from the day they bought their LTS before they were eligable for the 700 day reward. They have paid for the privilege of not having to wait 600 days for those rewards, but they did not pay for the privelage of not having to wait 700 days for the next reward.
This would not be adjusted for those who only paid 200 for their LTS, because they were buying the exact same thing as those who paid 300, just at a discount. After all, if you buy a bag of chips 50% off, they don't take half the chips out when you pay.
One could argue that because they're no longer spending money, as a regular subscriber would, that they aren't eligable for the 700 reward and beyond...but the word lifetime is in LTS so it is implied that they are subscribing for life, even if they aren't continuing to pay.
note: I only qouted the above because it was what brought out this idea.
Champions Online: Be the hero you wish you could be in a better game.
Once again to clarify my stance on the matter and being a 1000 day vet myself, it wouldn't matter either way to me, but I can't speak for all LTS players who waited that long to get the reward.
I would say that having the Foundry automatically pushes STO well above the content level CO has. And we've been dying for Guild bases long before hideouts were on the radar.
But I guess I can be thankful that we will maybe get a better version than what STO has in both cases when it comes here.
Sorry about picking on you again, Smoosan. Most of your idea sounds tenable and could be a fair compromise for all, but it's unlikely to be implemented.
The part of what you said that I quoted, however. I have to take issue with that. That would be like saying that people who bought a loaf of bread for 5 cents a loaf back in the 1950s got it at a discount because the same bread is now a dollar a loaf. There isn't a discount, the price was raised.
You might have something with the analogy if the $200 LTS was advertised as an introductory rate, but it wasn't. It was advertised as being that you could buy it until 11:59pm on August 31st, 2009. With there being absolutely no promise that they'd ever sell it again. In fact, they even implied it would never be available again at any rate.
This is actually very plausible.
I didn't earn the 1000 day vet reward the hard way. I earned the cheap way... That is I paid 66% the amount people buying LTS now are buying it for. That's how I earned it. If I hadn't spent a single dime since then, I'd still be getting the vet rewards. Even if I never played the game at all after release, I'd still get the vet rewards. That's not earning it the hard way. That's not even really earning it. If anything, it's an insult to people who paid monthly fees for all 1000 days...
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When I said the "hard" way, I was refering to the time-elapsed factor, irregardless how often the LTS player logs into the game, or any monetary factor. Giving the same reward to newly-joined LTS players the moment they pay for the subscription can be viewed as a slap to the face of the older LTS ones.
I'm seeing very little justification to LTS players saying they're entitled to all applicable time-elapsed vet rewards upfront based on the mindset that just they're subscribed for the lifetime of the game. I just don't see the logical connection here. From what I understand, a lifetime subscription allows you to pay a lump sum upfront and avoid paying for further monthly subscription fees from the entirety of the service's lifespan while remaining as a subscriber throughout. That's it. If anything, time elapsed rewards show no bias and treats no subscriber as being more favored than others, and I feel that it's better that way.
That's what I'm afraid of. With STO getting all the new gadgets, I'm fairly sure that they have no problems abandoning CO at this point. We may never get another stitch of content, really. The last content addition was not even made by Cryptic, but the players. (At least, I'm pretty sure)
However, they did finally go into the Bio window and turn wordwrap on, but is that really a big deal?
Playing casually I reached max level and completed all of the non-foundry content in 2 weeks. After almost 3 years I've only got one character in CO that's done everything. STO needs new shinies because it's on life support. I can tell you from my time there that there is 0 reason to go gold on it and little to no reason to shop at the store.
Champions needs to start restricting Alerts to 30+ or they may end up in the same boat. I'm positive there are players out there who I several maxed characters that have never left MC that constantly bemoan that there is nothing to do.
This means they are going to focus more developement on trying to save STO. They aen't abandoning CO they're just not giving the healthy child as much attention as they decide whether to pull the plug on the other.
P.S.
All of you whining that you should get all the rewards because you bought a lifetime sub yesterday. When this game first came out, the lifetime sub was a limited time offer. It was an actual show of loyalty and faith in the product. In addition, vet rewards are nothing new and they are always rewarded for active time. They are meant to be special. They are meant to make the have-nots want them badly. They are carrots.
There were quite a few people with buyer's remorse and Cryptic actually did hand out refunds on LTS for the first little while.
I had some trepidation myself, but decided to stick with it and see what happened. It truly felt like a gamble at that point.
I don't see how. The older LTS folk already have theirs. Like I keep saying, the only people it'd truly be an insult to are the people who have subscribed monthly the entire time. Those people are the ones who truly earned it. They are the ones who kept putting money in, month after month, just for the right to play the game. But as it is, preorder lifetime is just as much of an insult to them.
I do not consider LTS to be a true subscription. A subscription, to me anyway, implies a recurring fee. There is no recurring fee for LTS folk.
Frankly, I don't have a dog in this fight. Neither do any of us pre-order LTS people. Perhaps if one of us has a friend who has LTS but bought it recently, then they'd have a dog in the fight. Point is, because we don't have a dog in the fight, it doesn't matter to us which way the fight goes. It's all the same to us either way.
And it does actually treat some in a more favorable ligh than others. Silvers still get no veteran rewards. I think they should get SOMETHING for their loyalty. It's also treating preorder lifetimers better than people who subscribed monthly since day 1, since we're getting the same rewards they are, but we get them for pretty much free now. Subscription revenue wise we're no better than silver players who used to be subscribers that only played for the first year and quit.
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I could do that on an AT in CO in a few days if I had the entire time off from work. A couple weeks if I didn't. The comparison kind of falls apart at the point when you realize that CO isn't any better.
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