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Gravitar changes
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I've done over 40 grav runs successfully, some pug, some with at least a partially pre-made team.
Out of said 40, I received one costume drop.
Now, since the changes hit, I've attempted 5 gravs.
1st Attempt: I load in behind the barrier and can never join the fight. Eventually just left map, but pretty sure that one failed.
2nd Attempt: Success - Dedicated FF tank held threat (very skilled player that I know mind you), smokes apparently reduced random cascades still
No costume drop
3rd Attempt: Last one standing on PA AT (over 10.5k hp) defeated attempting to get back in range
4th Attempt: Last one standing on Soldier AT (5293 hp), defeated at approx 120ft range if not more
5th Attempt: Last one standing on Cursed AT (9khp), defeated by 2 grav cascades, fired almost simultaneously (4k+ and 5k+) while trying to pull grav away from dead rezzer
When grav was first released, it wasn't long before players figured out means of simplifying the fight through the use of smoke, skarn's and flying sniping.
Smoke - negated her random cascades - Even if the tank has threat, her cascades could potentially kill anyone in range in one shot. Smoke prevented the random cascades allowing the healers to focus on healing or rezzing as needed.
Snipe - 3s charge with 1 s activation - ANY damage taken interrupts. The 120ft range was only useful if the player could stay out of the targets range, which generally required a flight power. Anything that can engage at 120ft negates the use of this power short of an alpha strike.
Skarn's - nullified energy form reducing Grav's damage significantly
I'm not sure how capable the first 4 teams were as a whole. The 5th time the players appeared to be quite capable save maybe one who got him/herself killed within 10-20s of the fight starting. At least 2 healers. We got her down to the last bar, but while we managed to rez the main tank, he was effectively killed in 2-3 shots soon after, along with whoever else was still alive aside from myself.
I felt the last one was a solid representation of capable players that hadn't built specifically for fighting grav.
And while the same set of players could have probably been successful in another attempt, there's very little room for error. In fact, it's less about player error and more reliant on key roles not being one or two shot.
When you consider that alerts by design are intended for Pick Up Groups (pugs) the skill levels are going to vary considerably, even amongst 35-40. Increasing the failure rate substantially, without even adjusting the reward to compensate effectively takes any appeal for me to even bother with this alert short of a premade. Even with a premade, the chance of failure is still much higher than before, yet the chance of receiving a costume drop hasn't been improved.
Most of the successful runs I made on Grav before this patch wasn't out of fun. It was for a potential costume unlock. Considering the odds were insanely low when Grav had a high success rate, what incentive is there to bother when that said success rate gets slashed?
These costume unlock rewards from Warlord/Grav (along with warlord's special core) are the only true incentive to repeat said alerts. If this trend of relying on "rewards" to justify mediocre gameplay continues, it's just gonna alienate even more of the customer base off to competitors.
Out of said 40, I received one costume drop.
Now, since the changes hit, I've attempted 5 gravs.
1st Attempt: I load in behind the barrier and can never join the fight. Eventually just left map, but pretty sure that one failed.
2nd Attempt: Success - Dedicated FF tank held threat (very skilled player that I know mind you), smokes apparently reduced random cascades still
No costume drop
3rd Attempt: Last one standing on PA AT (over 10.5k hp) defeated attempting to get back in range
4th Attempt: Last one standing on Soldier AT (5293 hp), defeated at approx 120ft range if not more
5th Attempt: Last one standing on Cursed AT (9khp), defeated by 2 grav cascades, fired almost simultaneously (4k+ and 5k+) while trying to pull grav away from dead rezzer
When grav was first released, it wasn't long before players figured out means of simplifying the fight through the use of smoke, skarn's and flying sniping.
Smoke - negated her random cascades - Even if the tank has threat, her cascades could potentially kill anyone in range in one shot. Smoke prevented the random cascades allowing the healers to focus on healing or rezzing as needed.
Snipe - 3s charge with 1 s activation - ANY damage taken interrupts. The 120ft range was only useful if the player could stay out of the targets range, which generally required a flight power. Anything that can engage at 120ft negates the use of this power short of an alpha strike.
Skarn's - nullified energy form reducing Grav's damage significantly
I'm not sure how capable the first 4 teams were as a whole. The 5th time the players appeared to be quite capable save maybe one who got him/herself killed within 10-20s of the fight starting. At least 2 healers. We got her down to the last bar, but while we managed to rez the main tank, he was effectively killed in 2-3 shots soon after, along with whoever else was still alive aside from myself.
I felt the last one was a solid representation of capable players that hadn't built specifically for fighting grav.
And while the same set of players could have probably been successful in another attempt, there's very little room for error. In fact, it's less about player error and more reliant on key roles not being one or two shot.
When you consider that alerts by design are intended for Pick Up Groups (pugs) the skill levels are going to vary considerably, even amongst 35-40. Increasing the failure rate substantially, without even adjusting the reward to compensate effectively takes any appeal for me to even bother with this alert short of a premade. Even with a premade, the chance of failure is still much higher than before, yet the chance of receiving a costume drop hasn't been improved.
Most of the successful runs I made on Grav before this patch wasn't out of fun. It was for a potential costume unlock. Considering the odds were insanely low when Grav had a high success rate, what incentive is there to bother when that said success rate gets slashed?
These costume unlock rewards from Warlord/Grav (along with warlord's special core) are the only true incentive to repeat said alerts. If this trend of relying on "rewards" to justify mediocre gameplay continues, it's just gonna alienate even more of the customer base off to competitors.
Post edited by Archived Post on
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Comments
No snark intended (for once), just curious as to what others would deem enough to justify the Alert.
Personally, I'm happy with current rewards.
Useless, I do those on 40s.
Anything else is just a waste of time.
To do what exactly?
They killed the exchange along with crafting.
Well apparently, that's not good.
(It is for me, though better drop-rates wouldn't be frowned on...)
Well always good, but considering we get R1-2-3 from Bursts in less than 5 minutes...
Please tell me (and the Devs) what exactly do you want.
Maybe that'd help them answer (lol?) us or at least adapt things.
(Just saying that because I feel the "This isn't good" posts don't give them indications clear enough)
Also, just thinking aloud here, no facts thrown: couldn't the drop-rates be influenced by the fact that someone already dropped something in the "last x units of time" interval?
(Personally, got 2 pieces, but one the first day, and one yesterday... I suspect hidden cooldowns...)
People can still "enjoy" getting screwed over by the random number generator but still get something after wasting hours of their day repeating the same inane, unrewarding Alert this way.
Edit: I imagine this will cause weaker Alert bosses to be farmed to death, but if an Alert can't attract people based on fun factor alone then the problem isn't farming.
So she can blast away over 120ft range? Maybe i'll just grab my pistols and go for melee range and use Bullet Beatdown...Not that she has nothing rewarding for me anyway.
...
Yeah, I've heard they increased her range (it used to be 100ft, now it's well beyond that) so snipers can't just pluck away without getting blasted.
I'm not sure if it's more of her odd delayed damage or what, but I think she can shoot through walls as well. I like to plant myself in the fountain with the ranged DPS toons and shoot without having to worry about the gravity well. If I get tagged by a blast, it generally knocks me out of her range, but I would also duck behind the fountain to break line of sight while I healed up.
Last time I broke line of sight (and I know I was because all my attack powers greyed out), she force cascaded me while in the middle of a heal.
I hope it was lag, because ducking behind cover is a legit tactic in every action-oriented game I've seen, and plenty of comic book characters have shown walls their bodily affection while under fire. Would be rather crappy if it's considered an "exploit" in CO.
i dotn see why i should upgrade to 6++ since i only do alerts for costuem unlocks or questionite.. well with the increasing content that needs me to have rank 6++ mods and other grind /pay stuff im totally leaving it now.. gratz cryptic...
ill stay only for roleplay then... i already spend money and GRIND for costumes... i cant also go for mods only to beat some ridiculous *****... sry...
cryptic you should make the game more attractive for casual-gamers too...
Covers bare minimum... and that's an overstatement...
Costume unlocks are a great reward, but there should be more than that for lvl 40's.
Good items and mods are also usefull, but what I really would like to see are more devices. Blood Moon has awesome devices, Adventure packs have devices ( Dark Speed, Soul Vortex and Demonic Avatar ), 10 man alerts should have cool devices like those, people love that.
Action figures are also fun and summon items are fun, imagine how nice it would be have a summon gravitar henchman?
Anyways, there are many things that could be added, even medals and perks with titles could be added.
I'm OK with the current rewards, but this would be my wish list:
1. Costume pieces (as they are now)
2. Special Mod. Warlord had the Depleted Uranium, perhaps give Gravitar a special mod that provides knock resist or increased knock. Something that could go in a Utility slot.
3. Permanent device. Something in the vein of the bloodmoon devices. For her, a device that grants her aoe containment field would be nice, with appropriate cooldown of course.
Regarding the cooldown of her drops, I received 2 costume pieces the first day. I don't recall if it was on 2 consecutive runs, but I definietely received drop #2 within an hour or two of drop # 1.
Nothing in game, mechanically, requires greater than R5 mods. The mechanical difference between R5 and R9 is insignificant.
The, "more attractive for casual-gamers too," is odd because almost everything in the game, with the exception of only a couple of missions, is designed for casual gamers.
I'm sure there's some symbolism here, about trying to succeed the legit way, failing at that, and then complaining until someone let's you dress up like a vegas hooker.... but I don't even wanna think about it.
Oh boy, you tried using reason and facts... I wonder if they'll completely ignore this fact yet again and come out with some "bad for business" nonsense.
I've been waiting for "Thigh High Spiked Boots" to hit CO since i left CoX!
Lay off the spikes
Luck, and most likely the gloves and boots, everybody got thsoe too. Now the necklace and chest and another thing, after 5 days of farming, easly over 100 kills I only had 6 drops and all of them were BOOTS and GLOVES. I had to buy/trade the chest and necklace.
Costume unlocks only go so far, especially as a silver. But really the frustration is grav "abused" game mechanics with her 80k+ hits and dual cascades. In turn, players used their understanding of mechanics against her. Now those mechanics for players no longer work, however she's still able to hit over 80k and cascade the same target twice instantly.
With the high chance of failure, there was no increase in her chance to drop. At least TT elite always dropped a set of wings. With 10 players (or less), your chance to receive an unlock is painfully low. An sgmate had done 60+ runs in attempting to get the necklace. A friend of mine ended up donating it to her as she'd appreciate it far more than he would. The pursuit of these unlocks is the only reason me and a group of friends were even bothering with Grav, the Q reward was easily achieved through other means so that wasn't a motivation.
When it came to warlord, my frustration pugging is that there's no level restriction. I would take specific characters to insure success and carried quite a few to victory, often tanking whether i was a dedicated tank or not. It just doesn't sit well to be a deciding factor in succeeding for the team when its very possible some random level 6 that kept dying received the unlock. I did end up failing once, and I should have just made use of my smoke since it was a pvp oriented build, but I think the placate would have probably kept resetting the hp on his last bar.
As for the devs, I would like they actually play the game content and level an AT or few to 40 to see what the experience is like. FFs can be pretty powerful at far lower levels, so I think ATs would be more reflective of the typical experience (being F2P). Seeing just how many players struggle at all levels might provide some insight as to improving design.
(I wish they'd pvp too, but that be stretching it).
1500 first kill
1200 second kill
900 third kill
600 4th kill
300 after that until reset.
Most gamers I know (in the DDO world) would be mostly completely uninterested in costume unlocks as well - it would be a nice part for some, but not many would be running content for gear that doesnt improve your character at all.
So Gravitar, and the vast majority of the content in CO - is a complete waste of time and holds no reason for me to run it, or anyone else that likes gear that is useful.
Making most fights boring grinds of bashing thousands of minions and then other new stuff absurd in how cheezy hard it is also doesnt make things appealing either.
*cough*...and because of the Q *cough*
Indeed, they were the gloves and footwear.
One guy kept claiming it was bugged, having no clue that her random fcs were negated by smoke grenade completely previous patch. He died the most too, go figure.
We fought it out and after several near wipes she finally got us all. Wasn't fun, all my deathblows were in upwards of 7k, 21k, etc.
Just when I was starting to have faith in pugging this again. Think its more been pug and hope there's a premade in your 10 man.
From a narrative perspective, Gravitar's fight was great.
If there was anything wrong with Smoke Grenade, it's that it's simply too one-sided. Enemy can't see you, yet you have perfect sight (and therefore accuracy and damage) of them, and there is no way to counter it.
The solution shouldn't have been to make Cosmics and Legendaries immune to it, but to tweak it so that it's a useful support power instead of a broken "shoot with impunity" power. Give the target of smoke grenade dodge/damage resistance buff against ranged attacks to reflect the difficulty of hitting something concealed by smoke; give Gravitar the ability to use Force Eruption to clear away melee and smoke before she follows up with a random-targets force cascade spam; add something that doesn't render smoke grenade a worthless end-game power.
As for increasing Gravitar's range beyond 120 feet to counter snipers and/or staying at 100 feet to prevent themselves from being force bukkakked? She already has Gravity Well, that should have been counter enough. If not then give her flight so she can chase stragglers.
(r1 smoke w/ escape artist on one of my pvp builds).
120ft doesn't matter now, she's got a longer range.
I've been the last person standing twice in just the last day, using my smoke/pbr or smoke/ar as applicable.
If you're soloing her from half health - and the rest of you team is dead or gone, asking for a buff seems illogical. Running a survival focused FF and feeling everyone should be able to perform in the same manner? Cmon now.
Not having an active defense sure, but you've got self-healing and a def passive mitigating. Most situations that put players in the yellow bubble mean their death soon aferwards. In the few situations where I've been in the yellow bubble, I've never been able to get away unscathed unless I was already on the outskirts to begin with.
Xeiros was on point, I was quite impressed, especially when the yellow bubbles of DOOM started showing up.
you have an awsome idea!!!
seeing that she's a diva and has force powers maybe the device should allow your powers to have like a kockback effect while appying fear at the same time. or gives you some kind of protective aura that negates damage and converts it into energy. I just trowing some random ideas around here, maybe you guys have better ones.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
No seriously, knock it off with the thread necromancy.
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Other threads after they are past their prime become outdated and don't have any lasting relevancy to current events. Those threads if bumped back up to the top after dying out months are just being necro'ed.
In this case, it could be said that you are just necro'ing a dead thread, ginonovanta. Gravitar has been patched again since this topic was even created, and technically this thread is even in the wrong forum (it should be in Missions or Gameplay specifically).
Comments like zenzenarimasen's can also be annoying if people don't understand the difference (hopefully I'm helping educate readers here that there's a difference). The dates on the thread are only part of it, it also depends on what the thread is about if you want to consider it being necro'ed or not.
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
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You're not a CM, quit trying to control other posters actions :mad:
| ME | A "Guide" Book" | | I, have a "DREAM! | ( Member since Feb 2008 ) ... ?
[SIGPIC]http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b132/AngelOfCaine/STILLS/Misc/CO-Sig_01e.png[/SIGPIC]
Thread's never been really dead - so....
Do hate seeing the archived post aspect tho.
Bite me. You're already on my list. What makes you think I've given you the right to speak to me again?
Besides, I said "please", and you're not a CM either. Quit harrassing me. I already told you in-game not to harrass me anymore.
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I don't get it... but if you remember me, do i qualify?
I used to be Skcarkden, but then i took a Imp-erfect worldTM reverse grammar nazi to the skcark and become lower cased
Sorry, you aren't notable enough to be on my list. I barely remember getting into a scuffle with you. Frankly, that means I don't see any reason to continue animosity between us. Caine however, he can bite me for harrassment both in game and now out of game. I'd describe what he did but that'd regretably be against the forum rules.
If you want to know, I can tell you in an email in-game.
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Ah, well, to my own dismay, i have this bad habit of curiosity, even for the most trivial things. Though i think i remember you, metalurgist i think? I probshould have checked signature before replying, had a alien eyeball av or something maybe... i'm prob being random now >.<
But sure.. if you don't mind, send an in-game mail
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
*edit*
To be blunt Gravatar is still up the threads still relevant AND there is recent changes to her, this thread is very relevant and far from dead.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
This thread might have been dead but it certainly isn't now.
Stuffy on the old CO forums. PWE ate my username.