With INT as a SS and perhaps taking the spec that reduces active defense cooldown time, how often can you have Field Surge available?
Do you have any numbers as to how much "bleed through" you suffer with regular attacks?
The fastest recharge I've been able to obtain for Field Surge is ~39 seconds without AD cooldown specs. As for the bleed through it's ~5% of the damage to your shield. Which is why I suggest dodge/avoid over strays damage redux.
I started with gunslinger and two gun mojo, got killer instinct purely to help two gun mojo and to qualify for powers outside munitions. Other munitions powers didnt fit the theme. (I use two Mechassasin arms on my costume)
PFF, Field Surge, and Masterful Dodge help me stay alive well enough while tanking, but spike damage and holds are still a problem.
I needed a way to do aoe with challenging strikes, and after deciding that Lead Tempest looked ridiculous on my theme, i went with Havoc Stomp. It doesnt sinergize well with my stats, but it provides fear and knockups to minimize damage. Also, it doesnt break theme, wich is good enough for me.
Currently im having aggro problems, and my survival isnt quite where i want it yet. Two Gun Mojo sometimes isnt enough to keep a boss off particulary powerful dpsers in alerts, and the problem with havoc stomp is having to get closer to them to catch their attention.
As for defenses, sometimes a boss will paralize or hold me, which usually means im going to fall behind in damage/treath, and the dps is going to get aggro. Should i take an active offence specifically to break out of holds?, also, some bosses have spike damage that makes it really difficult to stay alive when both active defenses are on cooldown, i have been thinkin i may need an actual self heal, but not sure which one to pick.
Thematically, my champion is an alien inside a heavy artillery robot, so bullets, rockets, and other phisical damage means would probably work. Melee weapons are no go because i dont have hands to hold them with. Speaking of rockets, Tactical Missiles look very appealing for a possible substitute for havoc stomp, with their aoe advantage and CC, how good would that be to keep the minions on me?
It sounds like theme is the big thing, but how hooked are you to 2GM? It really isn't good for damage. Doing more damage quicker would help your survival problems. If you could stay mobile to keep out of melee range and went R3 and dumped Gap you would do a little more damage and mitigate some incoming as well. Assault rifle or Pulse Beam rifle would do more for you.
Protection Field instead of IDF I think would be more helpful because you can pop that and get some energy while protecting yourself.
If you're the heavy mecha robot type machine you could use Fissure or Tremor instead of Havoc Stomp. They create a damage area around the target area that continue damaging targets entering it. Just stand in the area and shoot, then target the next mob and bring them in, then move into the impact area and tank.
Protection Field instead of IDF I think would be more helpful because you can pop that and get some energy while protecting yourself..
Protection Field is layered under PFF. The only thing it would give is energy return. I would like to see Protection Field layered on top of PFF just like Field Surge is.
Protection Field is layered under PFF. The only thing it would give is energy return. I would like to see Protection Field layered on top of PFF just like Field Surge is.
Agreed. But it is a good way to get some protection if PFF does go down.
Agreed. But it is a good way to get some protection if PFF does go down.
*IF* is a big modifier for that statement, my friend. If by chance my shield ever goes down, then Field Surge is always up to restore it.
And to add to that...I did die a few times today on my TK blader because I got jumped by a pack of wild Brickbusters. >.<; Not much you can do when your health is gone well before your shields. 3 stacks of Brickbuster debuff....yeah, not cool.
Protection Field is layered under PFF. The only thing it would give is energy return. I would like to see Protection Field layered on top of PFF just like Field Surge is.
Yeah, I agree with you here, if IDF and all other shields layered over PFF like they do to players hp bars who dont have PFF...PFF would be a much better passive
*IF* is a big modifier for that statement, my friend. If by chance my shield ever goes down, then Field Surge is always up to restore it.
And to add to that...I did die a few times today on my TK blader because I got jumped by a pack of wild Brickbusters. >.<; Not much you can do when your health is gone well before your shields. 3 stacks of Brickbuster debuff....yeah, not cool.
I have to wonder if these shield bypassing attacks are intentional or a bug. The Brickbuster attack is a debuff. It basically reduces damage resistance mitigation so the target takes more damage. If bleed through on PFF is 5%, and PFF is essentially a health point pool that gets resistance and mitigation from other sources, then the BB debuff should only be affecting the resistance and should still have to do the full PFF shield points to get at the health bar and dodge and avoidance should be doing their full effect. PFF should therefore be the best defense against that debuff and regular damage resistance passives should be less effective.. BB and Viper soldier pulson rifles should not be bypassing shields.
I have to wonder if these shield bypassing attacks are intentional or a bug. The Brickbuster attack is a debuff. It basically reduces damage resistance mitigation so the target takes more damage. If bleed through on PFF is 5%, and PFF is essentially a health point pool that gets resistance and mitigation from other sources, then the BB debuff should only be affecting the resistance and should still have to do the full PFF shield points to get at the health bar and dodge and avoidance should be doing their full effect. PFF should therefore be the best defense against that debuff and regular damage resistance passives should be less effective.. BB and Viper soldier pulson rifles should not be bypassing shields.
I believe it's intentional. Brickbuster debuff doesn't just do damage resist debuff, it also does a heal debuff. Which leads me to believe that it also adds a PFF shield bypass mechanic to it as well.
I believe it's intentional. Brickbuster debuff doesn't just do damage resist debuff, it also does a heal debuff. Which leads me to believe that it also adds a PFF shield bypass mechanic to it as well.
How has PFF held up against Warlords fire patches?
How has PFF held up against Warlords fire patches?
No idea but I can do a check for you today if you'd like I'll post how my lvl 40's PFF does, bearing in mind her shield strength will be nerfed due to lvl 30 cap on Alerts.
No idea but I can do a check for you today if you'd like I'll post how my lvl 40's PFF does, bearing in mind her shield strength will be nerfed due to lvl 30 cap on Alerts.
I'm with RavenForce. My PA, Battlemaster has Inv and R3 Energy Shield. Works fine against everything except those burn patches. And Rez is useless if the defeated are still in the patch.
So far, PFF is doing good for Dragonfly in regular content. Might be ok to run against Warlord if there is a team of support passives buffing resistance and stats, but without support my 6300 shields with 6k health wouldnt last long.
Yeah, it's rather rediculous. The shield just melts even when dodging during blocking.
Oh god...not sure if I wanna risk it now , I was kinda looking forward to fighting him today with my ForceGirl before I left CO for my week of exams ...well, I'll see if I can get a premade team of lvl 40's and fight in one of the alerts...
I'm with RavenForce. My PA, Battlemaster has Inv and R3 Energy Shield. Works fine against everything except those burn patches. And Rez is useless if the defeated are still in the patch.
So far, PFF is doing good for Dragonfly in regular content. Might be ok to run against Warlord if there is a team of support passives buffing resistance and stats, but without support my 6300 shields with 6k health wouldnt last long.
I was suprised how well it did in the battle room with the holographic dudes, maybe it is just me but I play very defensively..I immediately block when PFF is too low for my liking...but recently I have been getting a oddly high numbers when my PFF is low on HP... My PFF since mini nerf is currently at 7.322k hp..since I had to work it back up from 6.500 (post new gear and mini nerf number) :mad:
But I noticed when I hit 5 or 4k PFF strength whilst blocking then hit with fully charged FC..it mostly gives me 8-9k crits... dont know whether this is some sort of internal power boost or just specs but it doesnt happen everytime but happens like 1 in every 3 4-5k PFF situations...
I still think IDF needs to be a proper form with stack and everything...like this:
IDF would be a unique form I think. It would grant team members increasing stacks of the form themselves so if I was the user of IDF and I toggled it on I would gain 1 stack and so would everyone else...over a period of 3-5 seconds, 8 stacks would build up either by taking damage or entering combat. I wouldnt really like it to be self only either, maybe if it was increased in functionality and provided the team with stacks as well it would be an invaluable team power .
Each stack would grant 6% more damage resistance, the damage resistance given by each stack would scale with your primary SS and would be affected slightly by your secondary SS (extra 0.5% maybe).
((( Just a quick side note it says on the wiki that Defiant can grant up to 8 stacks now?! O.o this true?
I did some snooping during my time as a Gold member and found out that Force used to have an Energy Unlock called Field Reverberation? I was thinking that IDF could grant some energy to the IDF holder per each stack?
The stacks would be called Determination, which affects all shield powers (but affects Force powers more e.g. PFF, PF, FS and Energy Refraction Shield (Force Bolt advantage force field) )
I also notice that IDF is the only toggle not to grant some kind of damage buff? Maybe this could be incorporated at a lower level than most forms do say perhaps 2.7% increase to ranged damage and 1.7% increase to melee damage per stack?
Or maybe a new form could cover damage needs for a Force Form? <----I am not really a fan of my next idea, because I'd like the damage and protection to be in the same form, to make it unique. But oh well
Anyway new form for Force called Null Field
While you maintain this form you will gain an instance of Force Rage, whenever you or your shields recieve damage or when you attempt to knock back an enemy with a ranged force power.
+ The Force Rage buff increases your ranged damage and grants a small amount of damage absorption. This damage absorption scales with your Endurance and you may gain energy this way once every four seconds. The ranged damage buff scales with your Intelligence or Ego whichever is higher and you can gain eight stacks of this buff.
+ At Rank 2 you have a 20% chance to gain an additional stack of Force Rage when you knock an enemy back with a ranged force power. At Rank 3 this chance increases to 40%.
+ While out of combat this power if active will grant as many stacks as it is ranked up (R1 = 1 stack, R2 = 2 stacks, R3 = 3 stacks)
+ You must fully charge this power to activate it and taking any damage will interrupt your concentration, cancelling the charge.
+ While this power is active, the energy cost of all your other powers is slightly increased.
+ While this power is active, your anger increases the shield strength of all your shields, each stack of Force Rage adds 200 hp to all of your shields (active (PFF) or inactive (Protection Field)).*
+ You may only have ONE Form type power active at a time! Activating another immediately ends any pre-existing Forms.
*What I mean here is that the description for Protection Field without the form active would say 1,500 hp but when the form IS active 1,700 hp.
Also just in case your wondering, yes there would be an internal cooldown of 3 secs so someone cldnt spam force blast and gain an extra 1.6k to all shields. Also each stack would give less to shield strength in decreasing increments of 10 hp...so
IMO, PFF needs a resistance stack buff system. For each period of blocking it should get a force resistance stack that increases shield resistance by a set percentage scaling on EGO
I've been gone for a bit and i'm thinking of retconning my robot into a PFF char. I like a more offensive setup and was hoping the buffs to pff would give me the staying power i need to burn through elite missions. I used a aopm int/x spec and had great results but it wasn't thematic at all.
I've been gone for a bit and i'm thinking of retconning my robot into a PFF char. I like a more offensive setup and was hoping the buffs to pff would give me the staying power i need to burn through elite missions. I used a aopm int/x spec and had great results but it wasn't thematic at all.
Any suggesions on powers/stats is appreciated.
This build puts out good damage and has great survivability. Feel free to give it a go and tweak it to your liking. Here
IMO, PFF needs a resistance stack buff system. For each period of blocking it should get a force resistance stack that increases shield resistance by a set percentage scaling on EGO
Instead of just Ego stat, make it the Primary stat and we can work with it.
IMO, PFF needs a resistance stack buff system. For each period of blocking it should get a force resistance stack that increases shield resistance by a set percentage scaling on EGO
Yeah I agree with PFF gamechanger Cyrone, make the new force resistance stacks should scale on Primary SS and gain a bonus from secondary SS as well (like 3.5% from each or something).
Or they could incorporate this into IDF and THEN make it overlay PFF....*-*....I can dream...:cool:
So IDF would still grant normal damage mitigation or resistance to self and team members but also would give an added bonus to self in the form of stacks...like I said earlier...
I still think PFF should grant a "recharge" power - you place it on your power tray and it allows you to redirect your personal energy into your PFF. It would have a high energy cost and a fairly lengthy maintain time, but would at least offer another way to rebuild your PFF.
I still think PFF should grant a "recharge" power - you place it on your power tray and it allows you to redirect your personal energy into your PFF. It would have a high energy cost and a fairly lengthy maintain time, but would at least offer another way to rebuild your PFF.
Surely that would have be very risky and only used when in non combat situations, unless you intend to use unbreakable or something and continually gain energy from energy builder?
Don't get me wrong it sounds like a good idea but Field surge and careful playing and agro tactics work fine, I'd be happier if PFF gave some sort of innate damage mitigation which would increase in stacks maybe like Defiant does or the damage mitigation was a little less powerful than Invulnerability but gave a chance to deflect attacks back at the attacker...I mean after all it is a forcefield...a shell of defensive energy which usually absorbs damage to a point and/or deflects damage back to the attacker(s)... I think in this way not only would the concept of the power be properly filled but the passive could be on par with other defensive passives..compared to Defiant, Invulnerability and Lightning Reflexes and Regeneration it comes up short, even with the small fix to the in combat regen speed.
Of course once they fix this they will turn to Telepathy and fix that powerset Lol I wish
Yeah I agree with PFF gamechanger Cyrone, make the new force resistance stacks should scale on Primary SS and gain a bonus from secondary SS as well (like 3.5% from each or something).
Or they could incorporate this into IDF and THEN make it overlay PFF....*-*....I can dream...:cool:
So IDF would still grant normal damage mitigation or resistance to self and team members but also would give an added bonus to self in the form of stacks...like I said earlier...
I still think PFF should grant a "recharge" power - you place it on your power tray and it allows you to redirect your personal energy into your PFF. It would have a high energy cost and a fairly lengthy maintain time, but would at least offer another way to rebuild your PFF.
...and have always liked this one. Add a cooldown to it and it's golden. That way it won't be OP.
I still think PFF should grant a "recharge" power - you place it on your power tray and it allows you to redirect your personal energy into your PFF. It would have a high energy cost and a fairly lengthy maintain time, but would at least offer another way to rebuild your PFF.
While I like this idea, it doesnt really solve the problem with massive DoT, like we were discussing with the Harmon Warlord super fire patches. Eventually the energy is used up, no more shield reinforcement, and the character still melts in moments in a fire patch.
The problem is that the actual force field PFF should be damage mitigating, not just a health point pool. Yes, the actual health should not be resistant (the heros normal flesh body). The Force Field definitely should.
Then I thought about another new kind of Active Defense I would like to see in PFF from an earlier discussion. I want an Active Defense that is an Area Active Defense like Force Field in STO or like Sue Storm does in F4 comics. Character raises a protective bubble over a 25 ft radius area screen all within with the PFF for 18 seconds. This is actuall extending the PFF out to protert others.
Great thread Cyrone. And thanks to RavenForce for directing me here. I just finished reading through. When I get around to rebuilding my Force/PFF toon, I'll come here if I have any questions.
While I like this idea, it doesnt really solve the problem with massive DoT, like we were discussing with the Harmon Warlord super fire patches. Eventually the energy is used up, no more shield reinforcement, and the character still melts in moments in a fire patch.
The problem is that the actual force field PFF should be damage mitigating, not just a health point pool. Yes, the actual health should not be resistant (the heros normal flesh body). The Force Field definitely should.
Then I thought about another new kind of Active Defense I would like to see in PFF from an earlier discussion. I want an Active Defense that is an Area Active Defense like Force Field in STO or like Sue Storm does in F4 comics. Character raises a protective bubble over a 25 ft radius area screen all within with the PFF for 18 seconds. This is actuall extending the PFF out to protert others.
Yup I already suggested this idea in another forum somewhere, and went on a massive rant about it and how epic it would be ...though it would have to be a AoE version of Unbreakable and maybe extend length of time to 25 seconds...but it would have the penalty of stopping ppl from attacking whilst inside the forcefield..so they could only use healing powers or rezzes whilst affected by Deflection Field (my little name for it ) or maybe they could only use energy builder...
Or it could act like a very long maintain of some sort? so as long as the person who casts the force field stays locked down in one spot the force field would be active...the force field would debuff all out going damage by 90% and stop all incoming damage like unbreakable does and also maybe add some sort of knockback component to it for enemies who run toward the field and then a regular repel. The maintain would be based on Rank and would slowly drain energy from energy bar over time, to make this viable then the caster would only be able to use his/her energy builder or maybe the attacks hitting the shield would grant energy or something...
Yup I already suggested this idea in another forum somewhere, and went on a massive rant about it and how epic it would be ...though it would have to be a AoE version of Unbreakable and maybe extend length of time to 25 seconds...but it would have the penalty of stopping ppl from attacking whilst inside the forcefield..so they could only use healing powers or rezzes whilst affected by Deflection Field (my little name for it ) or maybe they could only use energy builder...
Or it could act like a very long maintain of some sort? so as long as the person who casts the force field stays locked down in one spot the force field would be active...the force field would debuff all out going damage by 90% and stop all incoming damage like unbreakable does and also maybe add some sort of knockback component to it for enemies who run toward the field and then a regular repel. The maintain would be based on Rank and would slowly drain energy from energy bar over time, to make this viable then the caster would only be able to use his/her energy builder or maybe the attacks hitting the shield would grant energy or something...
I like it as a set amount of time, but a maintain would be interesting. Your idea is very good and I would /sign on to it.
Sad thing is, there was a power in Beta that did something similar to this. Created a large bubble that knocked back enemies and protected allies inside it.
Sad thing is, there was a power in Beta that did something similar to this. Created a large bubble that knocked back enemies and protected allies inside it.
No clue. There was also a high damage knock down ability as well in the Force set. Kevin Poe used to use it before his changes. Had no animation to it though.
Going to get this idea out before I forget. What if the diminishing regen on PFF was changed to how often the shield regen ticks?
Example:
80-100% = every 1 second.
60-80% = every 2 seconds.
Below 60% = every 3 seconds.
Keeping the same shield regen strength the whole time. Blocking increases regen strength and speed.
Edited for % adjustment after thinking it over.
So with 517 regen rate (7,597 shield max) you would get that every second, then every two, then every three. The regen ticks would be static, not changing. Only the frequency would change. It would be an overall boost to survivability of the power and allow for easier tanking with it.
force is a sad set.
only thing decent is FC even then that is.....
I think PFF should regen faster the lower it is.
Definately not the sadest set out there *cough* Telepathy *cough*, it just a couple of powers it has are letting it down big time, I think since FC is in Force Set and acts as a massive damage and knockback destroyer of Super Villains and the like, there should be a massive defensive power like what Cyrone and I were talking about. I mean an example of a powerset which has both a great damage in one power and amazing defense in another is Power Armor, it has access not only to a solid defensive passive and Unbreakable but with the revamped set it has a great damage dealing power FAW which can clear out rooms of villains. In my opinion, to make force a better set, it needs
- an energy unlock (Field Reverberation sound good?)
- a great active defensive / defensive maintain power which acts as a force field version of unbreakable, like described by myself and Cyrone and a few others on this thread
- an increased viability to PFF, by giving it a higher regen rate, perhaps higher starting numbers and definately working in some serious damage mitigation (little less than Invuln).
As an RPer, I can understand why regen rate goes down as PFF goes down from a thematic point of view...as it gets harder to maintain shields. But thats only for RP, and there are alot of people who use PFF and need it to be more survivrable.
Even though I RP I can see that this power still needs some help...removing In combat shield regen penalty is just the foundations of making this passive on par with other defensive passives.
Currently all defensive passives can allow the players to tank reasonably-very well except for PFF, in which case I assume that a special build would have to be built around keeping PFF active/ viable for tanking.
Another point about PFF is the starting field strength/ strength building. When I think of a force field, I wouldnt imagine it taking time to build up strength when first activated. In F4 comics and in general when a force field starts out it is at its strongest and is instantly active. As no other passive in game fills PFF's genre/concept of a cloak of defensive energy or even just a force field, it needs to be buffed to an actual force field strength/standard. I was suprised when I first used the power how quickly it depleated as if it was a bubble of Fairly Liquid surrounding my character. Also, it gave me the impression that the force field wasnt that solid, as I sometimes got hit for damage by non Viper Goons which by passed my force field.
I know that people who have teamed with me before have commented on how much my Impulse blocks in battle due to PFF going down too much...
Again it is a unique passive with no other passive filling that concept so it should not feel like a half hearted type of defensive passive when put up against Definace, Invulnerability, Regeneration and Lightning Reflexes which it is put in the same section with.
Personal Force Field would look better as well if there was some graphic for it...like when you have it and walk over a defensive or energy boost and that light blue colored force field procs around you for a short while...now that looks :cool:
- an increased viability to PFF, by giving it a higher regen rate, perhaps higher starting numbers and definately working in some serious damage mitigation (little less than Invuln).
...
Even though I RP I can see that this power still needs some help...removing In combat shield regen penalty is just the foundations of making this passive on par with other defensive passives.
.
The quality of nerfs to this power is greater than the quantity of buffs. Shield strength got killed in beta -> UI shield overlay -> slight regen strength buff -> diminishing shield regen and in combat regen penalty along with blocking increases regen -> slight regen buff -> max shield decrease and blocking layered over PFF -> in combat penalty removed and Field Surge layered over PFF. No real love for this power compared to the other defense passives.
Personal Force Field would look better as well if there was some graphic for it...like when you have it and walk over a defensive or energy boost and that light blue colored force field procs around you for a short while...now that looks :cool:
Yes. I like the Personal Shields from "Dune". I could start a Dune SG.
I second this, my ForceGirls 7.3k PFF worked very well until I forgot to block , even held up very well against her random force cascades
Warlord fight with PFF:
Hug his leg like a happy puppy and throw up your block for each of his charged attacks and his flamethrower regardless of who is tanking. I say this because I seem to get blasted whether or not he has me targeted. Doing this and avoiding the fire patches should keep your shield going just fine.
I didnt know that blocks charge up in power :eek: e.g. the longer you hold it the more damage you mitigate! Well then again I am usually one of the last ppl to find out stuff
It would be nice if there was some time of animation to show blocks charging up?
Okay gang. I'm up and running, ready to keep track of this thread again.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
I'm trying to work up a build primarily using the Force power set, using PFF (currently lvl 21). Interesting to read about the possibilities involved in using Dodge/Avoidance as the outer layer of defense over PFF.
I'm wrestling with a few issues. First, the guy's role is support/ranged damage, so I can see taking Protection Field to throw around allies, or myself if PFF with Field Surge fails me. Seem reasonable?
What is a good Form power to go with this. I see IDF is inside PFF which isn't great, but possibly still useful to help out the team and to help me as a last resort with PF if PFF w/Field Surge Fails. OTOH I've seen a few posts in this thread about Compassion providing a significant boost to PFF, but I'm not sure if a Force based character would have the tools necessary to build it up enough to be useful. If I'm soloing and can't throw PF around an ally it seems I'd be stuck. Force also has a number of attacks that I like (Force Cascade, Force Eruption, etc.) that do knocks, so perhaps Enraged might be the way to go. Thoughts?
Also pondering a good Energy Unlock. Wind Reverberation uses Repels. Would the knocks that several Force powers have count as repels? I guess the main other option is MSA. I'm thinking of including Force Geyser, Masterful Dodge, Ego Surge, Nanobot Swarm (w/ rejuvenating injectors) and either Imbue or Conviction as he levels up. Secondary Super Stas will be Int and Rec which help with MSA. Again, any thoughts?
I'm trying to work up a build primarily using the Force power set, using PFF (currently lvl 21). Interesting to read about the possibilities involved in using Dodge/Avoidance as the outer layer of defense over PFF.
I'm wrestling with a few issues. First, the guy's role is support/ranged damage, so I can see taking Protection Field to throw around allies, or myself if PFF with Field Surge fails me. Seem reasonable?
What is a good Form power to go with this. I see IDF is inside PFF which isn't great, but possibly still useful to help out the team and to help me as a last resort with PF if PFF w/Field Surge Fails. OTOH I've seen a few posts in this thread about Compassion providing a significant boost to PFF, but I'm not sure if a Force based character would have the tools necessary to build it up enough to be useful. If I'm soloing and can't throw PF around an ally it seems I'd be stuck. Force also has a number of attacks that I like (Force Cascade, Force Eruption, etc.) that do knocks, so perhaps Enraged might be the way to go. Thoughts?
Also pondering a good Energy Unlock. Wind Reverberation uses Repels. Would the knocks that several Force powers have count as repels? I guess the main other option is MSA. I'm thinking of including Force Geyser, Masterful Dodge, Ego Surge, Nanobot Swarm (w/ rejuvenating injectors) and either Imbue or Conviction as he levels up. Secondary Super Stas will be Int and Rec which help with MSA. Again, any thoughts?
Thanks!
Knocks are different than repels - a repel pushes an enemy away, but otherwise leaves them standing. If you're using force geyser and have any decent amount of INT, then may I suggest MSA. It'd also trigger off of *any* power coming off of a cooldown.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I'm trying to work up a build primarily using the Force power set, using PFF (currently lvl 21). Interesting to read about the possibilities involved in using Dodge/Avoidance as the outer layer of defense over PFF.
I'm wrestling with a few issues. First, the guy's role is support/ranged damage, so I can see taking Protection Field to throw around allies, or myself if PFF with Field Surge fails me. Seem reasonable?
What is a good Form power to go with this. I see IDF is inside PFF which isn't great, but possibly still useful to help out the team and to help me as a last resort with PF if PFF w/Field Surge Fails. OTOH I've seen a few posts in this thread about Compassion providing a significant boost to PFF, but I'm not sure if a Force based character would have the tools necessary to build it up enough to be useful. If I'm soloing and can't throw PF around an ally it seems I'd be stuck. Force also has a number of attacks that I like (Force Cascade, Force Eruption, etc.) that do knocks, so perhaps Enraged might be the way to go. Thoughts?
Also pondering a good Energy Unlock. Wind Reverberation uses Repels. Would the knocks that several Force powers have count as repels? I guess the main other option is MSA. I'm thinking of including Force Geyser, Masterful Dodge, Ego Surge, Nanobot Swarm (w/ rejuvenating injectors) and either Imbue or Conviction as he levels up. Secondary Super Stas will be Int and Rec which help with MSA. Again, any thoughts?
Thanks!
If you choose to use PF then it's recommended to stat Pre because the bubble scales to it for whatever reason.
As for your Form:
On Protogen, when I retcon him again, he will probably be using Cocentration since he will primarily be ranged.
On Kr'yshte I have Mental Discipline since she is my Protoss themed TK Blader.
Really it's up to you and what you feel would be best for your character. Additionally I have to agree with bio, MSA is a solid choice for anyone using PFF. I personally recommend Int SS with PFF as it allows for a faster cooldown for the beloved Field Surge.
A note about your choice of Ego Surge: if you have Ego SS then it will give you a temporary boost to shield strength and regen on PFF.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
Thanks for all the tips (also to Bio). I have been working on upping the Pre.
I'd forgotten about Concentration! New powers and all.
Loos like MSA is the way to go.
Does the effect of IDF happen before PF or is it underneath? Similarly, are Dode/Avoidance before PF?
From what I understand just about everything is layered under Protection Field *except* PFF itself. Pretty dumb if you ask me. Given that, the only bubble I use on my PFF characters is Field Surge. Especially since the added shield gets layered *over* PFF now.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
Comments
Do you have any numbers as to how much "bleed through" you suffer with regular attacks?
The fastest recharge I've been able to obtain for Field Surge is ~39 seconds without AD cooldown specs. As for the bleed through it's ~5% of the damage to your shield. Which is why I suggest dodge/avoid over strays damage redux.
It sounds like theme is the big thing, but how hooked are you to 2GM? It really isn't good for damage. Doing more damage quicker would help your survival problems. If you could stay mobile to keep out of melee range and went R3 and dumped Gap you would do a little more damage and mitigate some incoming as well. Assault rifle or Pulse Beam rifle would do more for you.
Protection Field instead of IDF I think would be more helpful because you can pop that and get some energy while protecting yourself.
If you're the heavy mecha robot type machine you could use Fissure or Tremor instead of Havoc Stomp. They create a damage area around the target area that continue damaging targets entering it. Just stand in the area and shoot, then target the next mob and bring them in, then move into the impact area and tank.
Protection Field is layered under PFF. The only thing it would give is energy return. I would like to see Protection Field layered on top of PFF just like Field Surge is.
Agreed. But it is a good way to get some protection if PFF does go down.
*IF* is a big modifier for that statement, my friend.
And to add to that...I did die a few times today on my TK blader because I got jumped by a pack of wild Brickbusters. >.<; Not much you can do when your health is gone well before your shields. 3 stacks of Brickbuster debuff....yeah, not cool.
Yeah, I agree with you here, if IDF and all other shields layered over PFF like they do to players hp bars who dont have PFF...PFF would be a much better passive
I have to wonder if these shield bypassing attacks are intentional or a bug. The Brickbuster attack is a debuff. It basically reduces damage resistance mitigation so the target takes more damage. If bleed through on PFF is 5%, and PFF is essentially a health point pool that gets resistance and mitigation from other sources, then the BB debuff should only be affecting the resistance and should still have to do the full PFF shield points to get at the health bar and dodge and avoidance should be doing their full effect. PFF should therefore be the best defense against that debuff and regular damage resistance passives should be less effective.. BB and Viper soldier pulson rifles should not be bypassing shields.
I believe it's intentional. Brickbuster debuff doesn't just do damage resist debuff, it also does a heal debuff. Which leads me to believe that it also adds a PFF shield bypass mechanic to it as well.
How has PFF held up against Warlords fire patches?
No idea but I can do a check for you today if you'd like I'll post how my lvl 40's PFF does, bearing in mind her shield strength will be nerfed due to lvl 30 cap on Alerts.
Not good at all. Even through blocking.
Oh..oh dear..not going to bother then >.<...BUFF PFF AGAIN! Make IDF and other shields lay OVA it!!!!
So far, PFF is doing good for Dragonfly in regular content. Might be ok to run against Warlord if there is a team of support passives buffing resistance and stats, but without support my 6300 shields with 6k health wouldnt last long.
Yeah, it's rather rediculous. The shield just melts even when dodging during blocking.
Oh god...not sure if I wanna risk it now
I was suprised how well it did in the battle room with the holographic dudes, maybe it is just me but I play very defensively..I immediately block when PFF is too low for my liking...but recently I have been getting a oddly high numbers when my PFF is low on HP... My PFF since mini nerf is currently at 7.322k hp..since I had to work it back up from 6.500 (post new gear and mini nerf number) :mad:
But I noticed when I hit 5 or 4k PFF strength whilst blocking then hit with fully charged FC..it mostly gives me 8-9k crits... dont know whether this is some sort of internal power boost or just specs but it doesnt happen everytime but happens like 1 in every 3 4-5k PFF situations...
I still think IDF needs to be a proper form with stack and everything...like this:
IDF would be a unique form I think. It would grant team members increasing stacks of the form themselves so if I was the user of IDF and I toggled it on I would gain 1 stack and so would everyone else...over a period of 3-5 seconds, 8 stacks would build up either by taking damage or entering combat. I wouldnt really like it to be self only either, maybe if it was increased in functionality and provided the team with stacks as well it would be an invaluable team power .
Each stack would grant 6% more damage resistance, the damage resistance given by each stack would scale with your primary SS and would be affected slightly by your secondary SS (extra 0.5% maybe).
((( Just a quick side note it says on the wiki that Defiant can grant up to 8 stacks now?! O.o this true?
http://www.champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/Defiance )))
I did some snooping during my time as a Gold member and found out that Force used to have an Energy Unlock called Field Reverberation? I was thinking that IDF could grant some energy to the IDF holder per each stack?
The stacks would be called Determination, which affects all shield powers (but affects Force powers more e.g. PFF, PF, FS and Energy Refraction Shield (Force Bolt advantage force field) )
I also notice that IDF is the only toggle not to grant some kind of damage buff? Maybe this could be incorporated at a lower level than most forms do say perhaps 2.7% increase to ranged damage and 1.7% increase to melee damage per stack?
Or maybe a new form could cover damage needs for a Force Form? <----I am not really a fan of my next idea, because I'd like the damage and protection to be in the same form, to make it unique. But oh well
Anyway new form for Force called Null Field
While you maintain this form you will gain an instance of Force Rage, whenever you or your shields recieve damage or when you attempt to knock back an enemy with a ranged force power.
+ The Force Rage buff increases your ranged damage and grants a small amount of damage absorption. This damage absorption scales with your Endurance and you may gain energy this way once every four seconds. The ranged damage buff scales with your Intelligence or Ego whichever is higher and you can gain eight stacks of this buff.
+ At Rank 2 you have a 20% chance to gain an additional stack of Force Rage when you knock an enemy back with a ranged force power. At Rank 3 this chance increases to 40%.
+ While out of combat this power if active will grant as many stacks as it is ranked up (R1 = 1 stack, R2 = 2 stacks, R3 = 3 stacks)
+ You must fully charge this power to activate it and taking any damage will interrupt your concentration, cancelling the charge.
+ While this power is active, the energy cost of all your other powers is slightly increased.
+ While this power is active, your anger increases the shield strength of all your shields, each stack of Force Rage adds 200 hp to all of your shields (active (PFF) or inactive (Protection Field)).*
+ You may only have ONE Form type power active at a time! Activating another immediately ends any pre-existing Forms.
*What I mean here is that the description for Protection Field without the form active would say 1,500 hp but when the form IS active 1,700 hp.
Also just in case your wondering, yes there would be an internal cooldown of 3 secs so someone cldnt spam force blast and gain an extra 1.6k to all shields. Also each stack would give less to shield strength in decreasing increments of 10 hp...so
200 = 1st Stack
190 = 2nd
180 = 3rd
170 = 4th
160 = 5th
150 = 6th
140 = 7th
130 = 8th Stack
so + 1,320k so all shields this number even I think is a bit too high but we'll leave it there for now. :cool:
Defiance is still 6 max. 8 max enrage.
IMO, PFF needs a resistance stack buff system. For each period of blocking it should get a force resistance stack that increases shield resistance by a set percentage scaling on EGO
Any suggesions on powers/stats is appreciated.
This build puts out good damage and has great survivability. Feel free to give it a go and tweak it to your liking. Here
Instead of just Ego stat, make it the Primary stat and we can work with it.
Yeah I agree with PFF gamechanger Cyrone, make the new force resistance stacks should scale on Primary SS and gain a bonus from secondary SS as well (like 3.5% from each or something).
Or they could incorporate this into IDF and THEN make it overlay PFF....*-*....I can dream...:cool:
So IDF would still grant normal damage mitigation or resistance to self and team members but also would give an added bonus to self in the form of stacks...like I said earlier...
Surely that would have be very risky and only used when in non combat situations, unless you intend to use unbreakable or something and continually gain energy from energy builder?
Don't get me wrong it sounds like a good idea but Field surge and careful playing and agro tactics work fine, I'd be happier if PFF gave some sort of innate damage mitigation which would increase in stacks maybe like Defiant does or the damage mitigation was a little less powerful than Invulnerability but gave a chance to deflect attacks back at the attacker...I mean after all it is a forcefield...a shell of defensive energy which usually absorbs damage to a point and/or deflects damage back to the attacker(s)... I think in this way not only would the concept of the power be properly filled but the passive could be on par with other defensive passives..compared to Defiant, Invulnerability and Lightning Reflexes and Regeneration it comes up short, even with the small fix to the in combat regen speed.
Of course once they fix this they will turn to Telepathy and fix that powerset
I like that IDF suggestion...
...and have always liked this one. Add a cooldown to it and it's golden. That way it won't be OP.
While I like this idea, it doesnt really solve the problem with massive DoT, like we were discussing with the Harmon Warlord super fire patches. Eventually the energy is used up, no more shield reinforcement, and the character still melts in moments in a fire patch.
The problem is that the actual force field PFF should be damage mitigating, not just a health point pool. Yes, the actual health should not be resistant (the heros normal flesh body). The Force Field definitely should.
Then I thought about another new kind of Active Defense I would like to see in PFF from an earlier discussion. I want an Active Defense that is an Area Active Defense like Force Field in STO or like Sue Storm does in F4 comics. Character raises a protective bubble over a 25 ft radius area screen all within with the PFF for 18 seconds. This is actuall extending the PFF out to protert others.
Thanks again guys!
Example:
80-100% = every 1 second.
60-80% = every 2 seconds.
Below 60% = every 3 seconds.
Keeping the same shield regen strength the whole time. Blocking increases regen strength and speed.
Edited for % adjustment after thinking it over.
Yup I already suggested this idea in another forum somewhere, and went on a massive rant about it and how epic it would be
Or it could act like a very long maintain of some sort? so as long as the person who casts the force field stays locked down in one spot the force field would be active...the force field would debuff all out going damage by 90% and stop all incoming damage like unbreakable does and also maybe add some sort of knockback component to it for enemies who run toward the field and then a regular repel. The maintain would be based on Rank and would slowly drain energy from energy bar over time, to make this viable then the caster would only be able to use his/her energy builder or maybe the attacks hitting the shield would grant energy or something...
I like it as a set amount of time, but a maintain would be interesting. Your idea is very good and I would /sign on to it.
/signed by myself as a good idea
OMG really? Why the hell was it scrapped?!:eek:
No clue. There was also a high damage knock down ability as well in the Force set. Kevin Poe used to use it before his changes. Had no animation to it though.
only thing decent is FC even then that is.....
I think PFF should regen faster the lower it is.
I think a change like this would solve a lot of things with PFF survival rating across the board.
So with 517 regen rate (7,597 shield max) you would get that every second, then every two, then every three. The regen ticks would be static, not changing. Only the frequency would change. It would be an overall boost to survivability of the power and allow for easier tanking with it.
Definately not the sadest set out there *cough* Telepathy *cough*, it just a couple of powers it has are letting it down big time, I think since FC is in Force Set and acts as a massive damage and knockback destroyer of Super Villains and the like, there should be a massive defensive power like what Cyrone and I were talking about. I mean an example of a powerset which has both a great damage in one power and amazing defense in another is Power Armor, it has access not only to a solid defensive passive and Unbreakable but with the revamped set it has a great damage dealing power FAW which can clear out rooms of villains. In my opinion, to make force a better set, it needs
- an energy unlock (Field Reverberation sound good?)
- a great active defensive / defensive maintain power which acts as a force field version of unbreakable, like described by myself and Cyrone and a few others on this thread
- an increased viability to PFF, by giving it a higher regen rate, perhaps higher starting numbers and definately working in some serious damage mitigation (little less than Invuln).
As an RPer, I can understand why regen rate goes down as PFF goes down from a thematic point of view...as it gets harder to maintain shields. But thats only for RP, and there are alot of people who use PFF and need it to be more survivrable.
Even though I RP I can see that this power still needs some help...removing In combat shield regen penalty is just the foundations of making this passive on par with other defensive passives.
Currently all defensive passives can allow the players to tank reasonably-very well except for PFF, in which case I assume that a special build would have to be built around keeping PFF active/ viable for tanking.
Another point about PFF is the starting field strength/ strength building. When I think of a force field, I wouldnt imagine it taking time to build up strength when first activated. In F4 comics and in general when a force field starts out it is at its strongest and is instantly active. As no other passive in game fills PFF's genre/concept of a cloak of defensive energy or even just a force field, it needs to be buffed to an actual force field strength/standard. I was suprised when I first used the power how quickly it depleated as if it was a bubble of Fairly Liquid surrounding my character. Also, it gave me the impression that the force field wasnt that solid, as I sometimes got hit for damage by non Viper Goons which by passed my force field.
I know that people who have teamed with me before have commented on how much my Impulse blocks in battle due to PFF going down too much...
Again it is a unique passive with no other passive filling that concept so it should not feel like a half hearted type of defensive passive when put up against Definace, Invulnerability, Regeneration and Lightning Reflexes which it is put in the same section with.
The quality of nerfs to this power is greater than the quantity of buffs. Shield strength got killed in beta -> UI shield overlay -> slight regen strength buff -> diminishing shield regen and in combat regen penalty along with blocking increases regen -> slight regen buff -> max shield decrease and blocking layered over PFF -> in combat penalty removed and Field Surge layered over PFF. No real love for this power compared to the other defense passives.
Yes. I like the Personal Shields from "Dune". I could start a Dune SG.
Kr'yshte performed exceptionally well. Time your blocks and PFF works just fine.
I second this, my ForceGirls 7.3k PFF worked very well until I forgot to block
Warlord fight with PFF:
Hug his leg like a happy puppy and throw up your block for each of his charged attacks and his flamethrower regardless of who is tanking. I say this because I seem to get blasted whether or not he has me targeted. Doing this and avoiding the fire patches should keep your shield going just fine.
It would be nice if there was some time of animation to show blocks charging up?
*Cough* Growing Block animation *Cough*
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
I'm wrestling with a few issues. First, the guy's role is support/ranged damage, so I can see taking Protection Field to throw around allies, or myself if PFF with Field Surge fails me. Seem reasonable?
What is a good Form power to go with this. I see IDF is inside PFF which isn't great, but possibly still useful to help out the team and to help me as a last resort with PF if PFF w/Field Surge Fails. OTOH I've seen a few posts in this thread about Compassion providing a significant boost to PFF, but I'm not sure if a Force based character would have the tools necessary to build it up enough to be useful. If I'm soloing and can't throw PF around an ally it seems I'd be stuck. Force also has a number of attacks that I like (Force Cascade, Force Eruption, etc.) that do knocks, so perhaps Enraged might be the way to go. Thoughts?
Also pondering a good Energy Unlock. Wind Reverberation uses Repels. Would the knocks that several Force powers have count as repels? I guess the main other option is MSA. I'm thinking of including Force Geyser, Masterful Dodge, Ego Surge, Nanobot Swarm (w/ rejuvenating injectors) and either Imbue or Conviction as he levels up. Secondary Super Stas will be Int and Rec which help with MSA. Again, any thoughts?
Thanks!
Knocks are different than repels - a repel pushes an enemy away, but otherwise leaves them standing. If you're using force geyser and have any decent amount of INT, then may I suggest MSA. It'd also trigger off of *any* power coming off of a cooldown.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
If you choose to use PF then it's recommended to stat Pre because the bubble scales to it for whatever reason.
As for your Form:
On Protogen, when I retcon him again, he will probably be using Cocentration since he will primarily be ranged.
On Kr'yshte I have Mental Discipline since she is my Protoss themed TK Blader.
Really it's up to you and what you feel would be best for your character. Additionally I have to agree with bio, MSA is a solid choice for anyone using PFF. I personally recommend Int SS with PFF as it allows for a faster cooldown for the beloved Field Surge.
A note about your choice of Ego Surge: if you have Ego SS then it will give you a temporary boost to shield strength and regen on PFF.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
I'd forgotten about Concentration! New powers and all.
Loos like MSA is the way to go.
Does the effect of IDF happen before PF or is it underneath? Similarly, are Dode/Avoidance before PF?
From what I understand just about everything is layered under Protection Field *except* PFF itself. Pretty dumb if you ask me. Given that, the only bubble I use on my PFF characters is Field Surge. Especially since the added shield gets layered *over* PFF now.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf