Except in one scenario the mobs always have increased survivability. And in the other if you hit them with crowd controls (as Otterman pointed out) before they set off their active defenses they wont have time to get increased survivability.
This raises the question of who says mobs have to have the same limitation we do as to when they can activate powers? There are already several things they can do that we can't so being able to activate defenses despite being technically disabled isn't a stretch.
This raises the question of who says mobs have to have the same limitation we do as to when they can activate powers? There are already several things they can do that we can't so being able to activate defenses despite being technically disabled isn't a stretch.
Perhaps, though, in that event then things would be pretty much as Silverspar describes them, since--if the mobs can always get their defenses up no matter what--that would mean our tactics wouldn't matter. So giving mobs special defenses in an attempt to diversify them would be pointless. Well, maybe except for powers that strip buffs getting some use, but that by itself doesn't add many tactical options (and the only such power that comes to mind right now is Skarn's Bane).
So what are the real patch notes since we've got FC.26.20120326a.2 patching on PTS?
Excellent question.
There was a code fix-up added to the build to prevent the Specializations window from buggin' out.
We didn't want to put a half-broken feature up on PTS and wast your time, so we opted to delay the update and squeeze the fix into the next build.
The patch notes haven't changed, but i will be putting up another build with more changes (or possibly two) by week's end :cool:
[*]Sentry: Persevere: Should no longer heal for crazy amounts.
Ok, is it however working as intended that it only heals for a percent of the damage we get after our mitigation ?
Then it is really totally useless for players with a defensive passive now :
Also, will that be final now that all specialisations now are normal in the retcon tree for over 10g per piece, instead
of the 4g90 it was before ? Really can't the retcon of the specializations not be seperatet from the normal powers ?
Get rid of Persevere would for example cost me "only" 280g now :rolleyes:
Ok, is it however working as intended that it only heals for a percent of the damage we get after our mitigation ?
Then it is really totally useless for players with a defensive passive now : Attachment not found.
Also, will that be final now that all specialisations now are normal in the retcon tree for over 10g per piece, instead
of the 4g90 it was before ? Really can't the retcon of the specializations not be seperatet from the normal powers ?
Get rid of Persevere would for example cost me "only" 280g now :rolleyes:
I can't see your pic, but all my spec points are free to take back. And I've exited and entered the power house several times to check.
The cost to remove an ability is based on the number of abilities that would be above it if you had a full set of powers for your level. Specs look to count as zero, which is why all the spec removes are the same cost.
Are you buying specs first or last? Cause they are free for me since I pick my specs last.
I've bought some normal powers after the specs. Defile and Bionic Shielding like you can see in the first picture.
Also when we think about a new character, he will get his specs whenever he levels up maybe, so some will
be buried deep in the retcon-tree later where it costs 40+g per item.
Here is however also a picture where the specs where bought at last :
Except in one scenario the mobs always have increased survivability. And in the other if you hit them with crowd controls (as Otterman pointed out) before they set off their active defenses they wont have time to get increased survivability. So you have to make a choice: Focus on those mobs first, stun them and take them out before they buff, or let them be and take longer to kill them later. It might also make effects that strip buffs more relevant, since they could strip these defenses rather than you having to tank them out completely.
Not only that, a player who pays attention to his foes' buff icons can switch targets in such a way as to not have to hit a foe who has triggered its AD.
For example:
Player fires at target A, reducing it to half health. (50% health trigger)
Target A triggers its AD.
Player sees the buff icon and switches to target B, which doesnt trigger its AD until reduced to 20% health.
Player sees teh buff icon and switches to target C, which doesnt trigger its AD at all and is defeated over the course of a very few seconds.
The player then switches to target D, reducing it to half health.
Target D activates its AD.
Player sees the buff and switches backt o targget A to discover that its AD has worn off. Target A is defeated.
Player then moves on to each target in succession defeating them as their AD's durations end.
If, hypothetically, each of those henchmen had 1000 health (meaning a total helath pool of 4000 for the entire group) then the player, by paying attention to buff icons and timing only has to do 4000 damage to defeat them all.
If the same mobs each had 25% more health, hypothetically, rather than the active defense mechanism, it would take 5000 damage to defeat the group as a whole.
If, hypothetically, each of those henchmen had 1000 health (meaning a total helath pool of 4000 for the entire group) then the player, by paying attention to buff icons and timing only has to do 4000 damage to defeat them all.
If the same mobs each had 25% more health, hypothetically, rather than the active defense mechanism, it would take 5000 damage to defeat the group as a whole.
That only doesn't take into account that it takes the same time with AoE to do 4000 damage against 4 mobs
than it takes to do 1000 again one single target. So it would really only make sense in fights against multiple
SVs like in Bunker Buster, but not against Henchmen with the small amount of HPs they have now.
Also .. we would really really need a better targeting for that :rolleyes:
Bug=Create An Opening Activates at Random
Create An Opening is a Commander spec tree talent that states that when ever you get a critical strike, your pet's get an increase to their critical strike chance equal to 10%/20% for 5 secs. At the moment, all I am doing is hovering in the air doing nothing, and Create An Opening randomly kicks in every 10 to 20 seconds despite the fact that I'm doing nothing.
Edit: Now it keeps resetting itself when it hits 3 seconds left on the buff. When I moved it went away, but when I stopped it came back.
According to the tool tip for Create An Opening, they should only receive it when I critically hit something. But rather, the buff is activating on its own when I sit still. And it stays that way till I move. And by move, I mean in a way that forces my pets to move. And sometimes, even than, it stays.
You probably have something in your build that is incorrectly critting, like the Impact advantage on Super Speed used to do. There was no way to observe it other than to have Form of the Tempest active and watch Focus stacks build up.
You probably have something in your build that is incorrectly critting, like the Impact advantage on Super Speed used to do. There was no way to observe it other than to have Form of the Tempest active and watch Focus stacks build up.
I use rainbow flight, and I doubt that is critting anything. Only thing I can think of is my AoPM. Could that "crit"?
Apparently, any effect in the game can be tagged for the ability to crit. The only way to know the culprit is to disable any toggles, travel powers and passives you have and then turn them on one-by-one until you notice Create An Opening procs.
Ok, I don't know what to say about this test. The underpowered sets are starting to glaringly show they are underpowered now. I now can get around 242 offense that gives me roughly 33% bonus damage on top of the other stats I get, plus my base gear defense is now around 210 which gives me 49% resistance (+10 more from being in tank role).
Damage wise even in tank role my build is, even without aggressor, stronger damage wise than most things can on live. This is further compounded, again, by the fact because of the high damage numbers that specific sets pull naturally, these bonuses actually shoot their damage over all skyward at a high rate, which means for them, the HP increase isn't noticeable. But for the underpowered sets, this increase is going to be easily noticeable for them. I know giving it my all with my bestial build the TTK was noticeably higher for me than just suing a basic HW tank build. Even going hybrid with the bestial build the TTK was noticeable, and this was using everything, including stacking enrage, just to try and see if keeping up was possible.
So at this point, the underpowered sets need a lot of love, otherwise people are just going to end up floating to the specific powers and abilities that allow them to do the most damage and kill things in the shortest time with greatest survivability. Theme is no longer an excuse for leaving things underpowered against other sets.
hey silver its like that on live anyways the difference isnt going to be noticed as a 20% boost to all things keeps the difference exactly the same as it is on live so um yeah wont be any more noticeable. BUT the sub par powers and sets deffinately need buffs just saying that your attempt to draw attention to it is unfounded:{ they do need it though
hey silver its like that on live anyways the difference isnt going to be noticed as a 20% boost to all things keeps the difference exactly the same as it is on live so um yeah wont be any more noticeable. BUT the sub par powers and sets deffinately need buffs just saying that your attempt to draw attention to it is unfounded:{ they do need it though
Actually because of lower damage numbers it does become more noticeable. A 20% damage buff to 5 points won't be as noticeable as a 20% boost to 10 points.
Excellent question.
There was a code fix-up added to the build to prevent the Specializations window from buggin' out.
We didn't want to put a half-broken feature up on PTS and wast your time, so we opted to delay the update and squeeze the fix into the next build.
The patch notes haven't changed, but i will be putting up another build with more changes (or possibly two) by week's end :cool:
THANKS!!!!
Now this is the kind of things I wanna see!
Information, pushing back cause things aren't ready AND a build that'll be ready for a full test.
Wooohooooo!!!!
Happy to know I didn't bark at the moon for nothing. XD
It's not hard to make mobs react to player actions, what's hard is making them do so in a manner that doesn't make encounters frustrating.
At one point we had every ranged mob kiting melee players constantly. While that is the intelligent play, it's also frustrating for melee players. If mobs always try to evade AoEs, then AoEs become much less useful. Same thing with charge attacks.
If we look at the source material, Henchmen are fairly dumb cannon fodder. They rarely pose any kind of threat unless they're massively outnumbering a group of exhausted heroes. Villains and above tend to be smarter, but still make frequent mistakes against heroes with well known powers (unless the villain is meant to be intelligent).
Which is why you snare the kiting ranged mob, drop the flying mob down with nailed to the ground, and stun/root the mobs before using maintained AoE on them. For single blast like pyre it just means you can't kill them easily by spamming the AoE, because after a hit or two they will scatter. So, you're no longer shooting a barrel of fish.
So at this point, the underpowered sets need a lot of love, otherwise people are just going to end up floating to the specific powers and abilities that allow them to do the most damage and kill things in the shortest time with greatest survivability. Theme is no longer an excuse for leaving things underpowered against other sets.
Wow .. really ? You constantly asked for more challenge, and now when it gets a little more challenging
you whine about beeing underpowered ?
Really .. what have you expected ? Of course that hits the weaker characters always the most. Just think
about a squishy AT with no heals and no active defenses that have to kill a boss very fast before they get killed.
So .. make the boss tougher that it takes double time to bring him down may be the dead for poor squishy
while tanky who can outlast everything just thinks its a little more annoying.
In as much as I don't tend to agree with SS, that is not the point of what she said at all.
Hasn't he not cried for harder more challenging content all day long ?
Isn't he not suddenly complaining that is poor Bestial is "underpowered" and wants him to get stronger ?
Now what happens if bestial gets indeed stronger ? He will again complain how easy everything is and
that it should be harder.
Even if is not the "main" point of what he is saying .. and i'm all for more balance between all sets .. but i'm
also not crying for harder content excatly because i know that it will hit the weaker set the hardest.
I just don't get it that some people are always absolutely surprised from what they get when their wishes
become finally true.
I really can't tell if you don't get the points people are making or if you're actively trying to not get the point these days to have something to argue with someone about because you used to get the points just fine...
Imbalanced powers =/= more challenging content. It equals the same content that is skewed in favor of other powers.
Wait, nevermind, it's a language thing now. Why am I even wasting the key strokes...
I really can't tell if you don't get the points people are making or if you're actively trying to not get the point these days to have something to argue with someone about because you used to get the points just fine...
Imbalanced powers =/= more challenging content. It equals the same content that is skewed in favor of other powers.
Wait, nevermind, it's a language thing now. Why am I even wasting the key strokes...
And Silverspar's point about an evenly applied damage buff of 20% is quite accurate. Increasing a 100 point hit by 20% adds 20 damage. Increasing a 1000 point hit by 20% is 200 damage. The same 20% buff yields a 1000% difference in actual damage increase for the character with higher base damage. Unless mobs have health totals relative to the damage output of those attacking them (ala scary monster tech) buffs to damage will be more beneficial to high damage characters than low,unless of course the high damage character is already hitting DR really heavily or is already doing serious overkill damage (boosting the damage of a character that already kills everything with one shot isnt really much of, if any, a buff).
And Silverspar's point about an evenly applied damage buff of 20% is quite accurate. Increasing a 100 point hit by 20% adds 20 damage. Increasing a 1000 point hit by 20% is 200 damage. The same 20% buff yields a 1000% difference in actual damage increase for the character with higher base damage. Unless mobs have health totals relative to the damage output of those attacking them (ala scary monster tech) buffs to damage will be more beneficial to high damage characters than low,unless of course the high damage character is already hitting DR really heavily or is already doing serious overkill damage (boosting the damage of a character that already kills everything with one shot isnt really much of, if any, a buff).
I really can't tell if you don't get the points people are making or if you're actively trying to not get the point these days to have something to argue with someone about because you used to get the points just fine...
Imbalanced powers =/= more challenging content. It equals the same content that is skewed in favor of other powers.
Wait, nevermind, it's a language thing now. Why am I even wasting the key strokes...
And i don't know if you simply don't get what i say.
1. I ask for harder mobs .. since everything is too easy.
2. So .. i get mobs that have 20% more hitpoints.
3 .No i cry that i need 20% longer for these mobs and they should give me 20% more damage
4. They give me 20% more damage .. now everything is like before, only the number are bigger, and i can repeat with 1.
Where please is the sense about that .. thats all i wonder. Can't you really understand that ?
I mention that I need 20% longer for these mobs and they should give me 20% more damage because other powersets that were already stronger are getting a lot more out of that 20% buff making the power gap and balance in the game even wider. It's not a difficulty issue since time doesn't make it more difficult, it's a balance issue.
Since I had a few more key strokes to spare assuming the language barrier won't selectively be an issue this time...
Since I had a few more key strokes to spare assuming the language barrier won't selectively be an issue this time...
I don't really understand now what that all means.
The 20% damage buff i want is only for Bestial .. not for everything else.
And whatever you say .. besides from flat damage reduction .. 20% more is 20% more.
Even if Overpowerd char need only 5 seconds and now kills in 6 seconds
and underpowered already need 50 seconds and need now 60 second ... yeah the time is longer but its
still only 20% difference
I don't really understand now what that all means.
The 20% damage buff i want is only for Bestial .. not for everything else.
And whatever you say .. besides from flat damage reduction .. 20% more is 20% more.
Even if Overpowerd char need only 5 seconds and now kills in 6 seconds
and underpowered already need 50 seconds and need now 60 second ... yeah the time is longer but its
still only 20% difference
Just read Ashen's last post about what SS was talking about that you deemed as crying over more difficulty when difficulty isn't the point at all. That's as simple as it gets regarding how the buffs make powerful powers far more effective than they do for weaker powers making the gap between powers even larger than it ever was.
And whatever you say .. besides from flat damage reduction .. 20% more is 20% more.
The effect is essentially multiplicative though.
+20% for 1000 base damage generates a yield that is 1000% of the yield for a 20% increase applied to 100 base damage.
That more powerful set that has a much higher base damage is getting 10x as much damage out of the 20% buff than the less powerful set. A flat increase of 20% increases the disparity between the two sets.
Actually because of lower damage numbers it does become more noticeable. A 20% damage buff to 5 points won't be as noticeable as a 20% boost to 10 points.
Against a target with 20% more hit points, either one will defeat the target in exactly the same time as would have been required before.
+20% for 1000 base damage generates a yield that is 1000% of the yield for a 20% increase applied to 100 base damage.
That more powerful set that has a much higher base damage is getting 10x as much damage out of the 20% buff than the less powerful set. A flat increase of 20% increases the disparity between the two sets.
LOL sorry but I wish to interject at this point, I see what both of you are getting at if you do not mind me saying and I think both of you are actually making sense.
Mathematically, 20% increase is 20% increase and it should not affect the disparity between stronger or weaker toons. As it is a percentage increase it benefits all "equally" in that sense as according to Beldin. This is unlike give a flat damage increase of say 100 damage which to someone doing 200 damage originally will be a 50% increase while the same 100 more damage will only be a 10% increase for someone who is originally hitting for 1000 damage.
However I also understand what Ashen and Kenpo are trying to bring across because the 20% converts to much more actual damage for someone who is hitting for larger damage. The disparity will be obvious when dealing with enemies with low HP.
So for example, looking at numbers if I have an enemy with 1200HP
Someone hitting for 1000 dmg per strike will need 2 strikes (technically it should be 1.2 strikes) to kill the enemy. But with a 20% increase he will now need 1 strike.
However, another toon doing 200 dmg per strike will need 6 strikes and after the 20% increase will need 5 strikes.
1/2 < 5/6 (1/1.2 = 5/6)
To be honest, mathematically, I think Beldin is right and 20% is 20% for all and technically in the first example the mightier toon actually need only 1.2 strikes to kill the enemy but of course there isn't really such a thing as 1.2 strikes (even if we factor in the possibility of charging up an attack to 20%, do not forget there is still such thing as activation time which is a flat number regardless of how much you want to charge).
I am not sure if I got the exact arguments of both parties but I do hope this post would would resolve the dispute.
wesly your explanation is spot on the 20% is just that 20% (mind you that isnt an exact number just an example) again thoughthe problem is balance the sub par sets need to be brought up to level but thats not the focus of these updates. The focus of these updates is the new spec trees and the current changes they make. no one is saying the sets are not underperforming spar or kempo were just pointing out that the difference in power is exactly the same as it is on live.
These things need to be fixed but lets focus on what we need to focus on and then jump down there throats about balance after this cluster puck of a change gets ironed out.
As Pantagruel pointed out, if the mobs are getting a 20% HP buff then a flat 20% damage buff for characters results in exactly the same time to kill ratios as before the buffs.
My previous posts on the matter were essentially made in a vacuum, int he sense that I was referring to damage buffs alone, when, of course, the whole needs to be looked at.
The low performing sets do need love, but the math Silverspar used to support this VALID POINT, is wrong.
Yeah, I agree that low performing sets could use help, this update just doesn't affect them by very much (since characters tend to have slightly higher basic damage bonuses from gear, str/ego damage bonuses, and offense stat, the differences between heavy buff builds and not may be flattened slightly).
I did a retcon on my primary alt on the PTS, and after I chose Specializations, and powers, and changed roles and set it back to Hybrid, the specializations I had selected on the Con section (the very bottom) had been removed.
Is this a bug, or an unannounced feature? Also, Dexterity Mastery is still NYI...
I don't believe there's any single change that will fix everything in terms of balance.
Similar to how the energy builders currently work, where they should all give the same amount of evergy gain in the same timeframe, I think all powers need to be brought in line with each other. Each power at each tier should give roughly the same DPS when compared to other powersets of the same tier. Then each power should have specific advantages to make it unique (proc for bleeding, critting, healing, etc.), and they should all with stack with the primary and secondary, or require a specific stat BUT REACH THEIR MAXIMUM BUFF WITH THAT STAT CHOSEN AS A SECONDARY (Example 50 points), allowing players the freedom to chose other stats without being forced to drain all their points into that one stat.
I feel this will 'help' balance powers between the sets, which brings us to critters. Giving them more life is fine, but you'll see that the alpha players will still build for high damage, while the casual player will get tired of clicking that one button over and over and over...
My suggestion for making critters more difficult is to code them to play smarter and harder. Only Lieutenants and higher should have the ability to cancel travel powers. LTs should have have the presence of mind to block when the player is charging an attack longer than 1.5 seconds. 50% status effect resistance for Bosses. 75% and 100% for higher levels. Give minions a defensive buff if there are 3 (or 2) of them in a group. Give them a ToHit buff if there is an LT in the group. Give them a damage buff if there is a Boss in the group. So the more you attempt to tank, the more they'll buff each other to take you out. I don't even want to know what this would do for Zombie Apocalypse.
Bug
Aftershock level 3 Army of Horrors
The fully loaded (with Chaos Energy) Osprey only kills 2 of the Nightmare Demolishers maybe a few other things but there was a lot left for Ripper and I to kill.
gratuitous screeny showing that only 6 units in the army of horrors have been duffed up, this suggests that the Osprey only took out 2 x Nightmare Demolishers I had already killed 4 trash mobs before activating the ospreys autopilot. http://i43.tinypic.com/102s0zn.jpg
Closing this thread.
Please post all comments and feedback in the newPTS Update FC.26.20120326a.3 thread, or in ones dedicated to specific features/systems.
Comments
This raises the question of who says mobs have to have the same limitation we do as to when they can activate powers? There are already several things they can do that we can't so being able to activate defenses despite being technically disabled isn't a stretch.
I'm working on getting this up within the next few hours.
As long as it's up by 6:00p.m. Eastern Time it's OK, otherwise, heads will roll!!!!! :mad:
Seriously, thx for the update. Communication is much appreciated.
Perhaps, though, in that event then things would be pretty much as Silverspar describes them, since--if the mobs can always get their defenses up no matter what--that would mean our tactics wouldn't matter. So giving mobs special defenses in an attempt to diversify them would be pointless. Well, maybe except for powers that strip buffs getting some use, but that by itself doesn't add many tactical options (and the only such power that comes to mind right now is Skarn's Bane).
Excellent question.
There was a code fix-up added to the build to prevent the Specializations window from buggin' out.
We didn't want to put a half-broken feature up on PTS and wast your time, so we opted to delay the update and squeeze the fix into the next build.
The patch notes haven't changed, but i will be putting up another build with more changes (or possibly two) by week's end :cool:
Ok, is it however working as intended that it only heals for a percent of the damage we get after our mitigation ?
Then it is really totally useless for players with a defensive passive now :
Also, will that be final now that all specialisations now are normal in the retcon tree for over 10g per piece, instead
of the 4g90 it was before ? Really can't the retcon of the specializations not be seperatet from the normal powers ?
Get rid of Persevere would for example cost me "only" 280g now :rolleyes:
I can't see your pic, but all my spec points are free to take back. And I've exited and entered the power house several times to check.
Ah .. always forget that attachements don't work here *grumble*
This is how the retcon looks for me :
seems the price is the one for the last power before it for all following specials, so the price from defile here.
I've bought some normal powers after the specs. Defile and Bionic Shielding like you can see in the first picture.
Also when we think about a new character, he will get his specs whenever he levels up maybe, so some will
be buried deep in the retcon-tree later where it costs 40+g per item.
Here is however also a picture where the specs where bought at last :
Not only that, a player who pays attention to his foes' buff icons can switch targets in such a way as to not have to hit a foe who has triggered its AD.
For example:
Player fires at target A, reducing it to half health. (50% health trigger)
Target A triggers its AD.
Player sees the buff icon and switches to target B, which doesnt trigger its AD until reduced to 20% health.
Player sees teh buff icon and switches to target C, which doesnt trigger its AD at all and is defeated over the course of a very few seconds.
The player then switches to target D, reducing it to half health.
Target D activates its AD.
Player sees the buff and switches backt o targget A to discover that its AD has worn off. Target A is defeated.
Player then moves on to each target in succession defeating them as their AD's durations end.
If, hypothetically, each of those henchmen had 1000 health (meaning a total helath pool of 4000 for the entire group) then the player, by paying attention to buff icons and timing only has to do 4000 damage to defeat them all.
If the same mobs each had 25% more health, hypothetically, rather than the active defense mechanism, it would take 5000 damage to defeat the group as a whole.
That only doesn't take into account that it takes the same time with AoE to do 4000 damage against 4 mobs
than it takes to do 1000 again one single target. So it would really only make sense in fights against multiple
SVs like in Bunker Buster, but not against Henchmen with the small amount of HPs they have now.
Also .. we would really really need a better targeting for that :rolleyes:
Create An Opening is a Commander spec tree talent that states that when ever you get a critical strike, your pet's get an increase to their critical strike chance equal to 10%/20% for 5 secs. At the moment, all I am doing is hovering in the air doing nothing, and Create An Opening randomly kicks in every 10 to 20 seconds despite the fact that I'm doing nothing.
Edit: Now it keeps resetting itself when it hits 3 seconds left on the buff. When I moved it went away, but when I stopped it came back.
According to the tool tip for Create An Opening, they should only receive it when I critically hit something. But rather, the buff is activating on its own when I sit still. And it stays that way till I move. And by move, I mean in a way that forces my pets to move. And sometimes, even than, it stays.
I use rainbow flight, and I doubt that is critting anything. Only thing I can think of is my AoPM. Could that "crit"?
Damage wise even in tank role my build is, even without aggressor, stronger damage wise than most things can on live. This is further compounded, again, by the fact because of the high damage numbers that specific sets pull naturally, these bonuses actually shoot their damage over all skyward at a high rate, which means for them, the HP increase isn't noticeable. But for the underpowered sets, this increase is going to be easily noticeable for them. I know giving it my all with my bestial build the TTK was noticeably higher for me than just suing a basic HW tank build. Even going hybrid with the bestial build the TTK was noticeable, and this was using everything, including stacking enrage, just to try and see if keeping up was possible.
So at this point, the underpowered sets need a lot of love, otherwise people are just going to end up floating to the specific powers and abilities that allow them to do the most damage and kill things in the shortest time with greatest survivability. Theme is no longer an excuse for leaving things underpowered against other sets.
Actually because of lower damage numbers it does become more noticeable. A 20% damage buff to 5 points won't be as noticeable as a 20% boost to 10 points.
THANKS!!!!
Now this is the kind of things I wanna see!
Information, pushing back cause things aren't ready AND a build that'll be ready for a full test.
Wooohooooo!!!!
Happy to know I didn't bark at the moon for nothing. XD
Again, thanks.
Which is why you snare the kiting ranged mob, drop the flying mob down with nailed to the ground, and stun/root the mobs before using maintained AoE on them. For single blast like pyre it just means you can't kill them easily by spamming the AoE, because after a hit or two they will scatter. So, you're no longer shooting a barrel of fish.
Wow .. really ? You constantly asked for more challenge, and now when it gets a little more challenging
you whine about beeing underpowered ?
Really .. what have you expected ? Of course that hits the weaker characters always the most. Just think
about a squishy AT with no heals and no active defenses that have to kill a boss very fast before they get killed.
So .. make the boss tougher that it takes double time to bring him down may be the dead for poor squishy
while tanky who can outlast everything just thinks its a little more annoying.
In as much as I don't tend to agree with SS, that is not the point of what she said at all.
Hasn't he not cried for harder more challenging content all day long ?
Isn't he not suddenly complaining that is poor Bestial is "underpowered" and wants him to get stronger ?
Now what happens if bestial gets indeed stronger ? He will again complain how easy everything is and
that it should be harder.
Even if is not the "main" point of what he is saying .. and i'm all for more balance between all sets .. but i'm
also not crying for harder content excatly because i know that it will hit the weaker set the hardest.
I just don't get it that some people are always absolutely surprised from what they get when their wishes
become finally true.
I really can't tell if you don't get the points people are making or if you're actively trying to not get the point these days to have something to argue with someone about because you used to get the points just fine...
Imbalanced powers =/= more challenging content. It equals the same content that is skewed in favor of other powers.
Wait, nevermind, it's a language thing now. Why am I even wasting the key strokes...
And Silverspar's point about an evenly applied damage buff of 20% is quite accurate. Increasing a 100 point hit by 20% adds 20 damage. Increasing a 1000 point hit by 20% is 200 damage. The same 20% buff yields a 1000% difference in actual damage increase for the character with higher base damage. Unless mobs have health totals relative to the damage output of those attacking them (ala scary monster tech) buffs to damage will be more beneficial to high damage characters than low,unless of course the high damage character is already hitting DR really heavily or is already doing serious overkill damage (boosting the damage of a character that already kills everything with one shot isnt really much of, if any, a buff).
Ayup .
And i don't know if you simply don't get what i say.
1. I ask for harder mobs .. since everything is too easy.
2. So .. i get mobs that have 20% more hitpoints.
3 .No i cry that i need 20% longer for these mobs and they should give me 20% more damage
4. They give me 20% more damage .. now everything is like before, only the number are bigger, and i can repeat with 1.
Where please is the sense about that .. thats all i wonder. Can't you really understand that ?
Since I had a few more key strokes to spare assuming the language barrier won't selectively be an issue this time...
I don't really understand now what that all means.
The 20% damage buff i want is only for Bestial .. not for everything else.
And whatever you say .. besides from flat damage reduction .. 20% more is 20% more.
Even if Overpowerd char need only 5 seconds and now kills in 6 seconds
and underpowered already need 50 seconds and need now 60 second ... yeah the time is longer but its
still only 20% difference
Just read Ashen's last post about what SS was talking about that you deemed as crying over more difficulty when difficulty isn't the point at all. That's as simple as it gets regarding how the buffs make powerful powers far more effective than they do for weaker powers making the gap between powers even larger than it ever was.
The effect is essentially multiplicative though.
+20% for 1000 base damage generates a yield that is 1000% of the yield for a 20% increase applied to 100 base damage.
That more powerful set that has a much higher base damage is getting 10x as much damage out of the 20% buff than the less powerful set. A flat increase of 20% increases the disparity between the two sets.
LOL sorry but I wish to interject at this point, I see what both of you are getting at if you do not mind me saying and I think both of you are actually making sense.
Mathematically, 20% increase is 20% increase and it should not affect the disparity between stronger or weaker toons. As it is a percentage increase it benefits all "equally" in that sense as according to Beldin. This is unlike give a flat damage increase of say 100 damage which to someone doing 200 damage originally will be a 50% increase while the same 100 more damage will only be a 10% increase for someone who is originally hitting for 1000 damage.
However I also understand what Ashen and Kenpo are trying to bring across because the 20% converts to much more actual damage for someone who is hitting for larger damage. The disparity will be obvious when dealing with enemies with low HP.
So for example, looking at numbers if I have an enemy with 1200HP
Someone hitting for 1000 dmg per strike will need 2 strikes (technically it should be 1.2 strikes) to kill the enemy. But with a 20% increase he will now need 1 strike.
However, another toon doing 200 dmg per strike will need 6 strikes and after the 20% increase will need 5 strikes.
1/2 < 5/6 (1/1.2 = 5/6)
To be honest, mathematically, I think Beldin is right and 20% is 20% for all and technically in the first example the mightier toon actually need only 1.2 strikes to kill the enemy but of course there isn't really such a thing as 1.2 strikes (even if we factor in the possibility of charging up an attack to 20%, do not forget there is still such thing as activation time which is a flat number regardless of how much you want to charge).
I am not sure if I got the exact arguments of both parties but I do hope this post would would resolve the dispute.
These things need to be fixed but lets focus on what we need to focus on and then jump down there throats about balance after this cluster puck of a change gets ironed out.
My previous posts on the matter were essentially made in a vacuum, int he sense that I was referring to damage buffs alone, when, of course, the whole needs to be looked at.
Thank you for interjecting the correct answer.
The low performing sets do need love, but the math Silverspar used to support this VALID POINT, is wrong.
Now if we want to make the discussion more complex and Start to fact in Under and Overkills, then we would be getting somewhere.
Is this a bug, or an unannounced feature? Also, Dexterity Mastery is still NYI...
Similar to how the energy builders currently work, where they should all give the same amount of evergy gain in the same timeframe, I think all powers need to be brought in line with each other. Each power at each tier should give roughly the same DPS when compared to other powersets of the same tier. Then each power should have specific advantages to make it unique (proc for bleeding, critting, healing, etc.), and they should all with stack with the primary and secondary, or require a specific stat BUT REACH THEIR MAXIMUM BUFF WITH THAT STAT CHOSEN AS A SECONDARY (Example 50 points), allowing players the freedom to chose other stats without being forced to drain all their points into that one stat.
I feel this will 'help' balance powers between the sets, which brings us to critters. Giving them more life is fine, but you'll see that the alpha players will still build for high damage, while the casual player will get tired of clicking that one button over and over and over...
My suggestion for making critters more difficult is to code them to play smarter and harder. Only Lieutenants and higher should have the ability to cancel travel powers. LTs should have have the presence of mind to block when the player is charging an attack longer than 1.5 seconds. 50% status effect resistance for Bosses. 75% and 100% for higher levels. Give minions a defensive buff if there are 3 (or 2) of them in a group. Give them a ToHit buff if there is an LT in the group. Give them a damage buff if there is a Boss in the group. So the more you attempt to tank, the more they'll buff each other to take you out. I don't even want to know what this would do for Zombie Apocalypse.
Easiest way to recreate:
Ticket: 27040
The above behaviour does not appear on live.
Ego blade powers are still being fed by EGO as well, which does appear on live.
Aftershock level 3 Army of Horrors
The fully loaded (with Chaos Energy) Osprey only kills 2 of the Nightmare Demolishers maybe a few other things but there was a lot left for Ripper and I to kill.
gratuitous screeny showing that only 6 units in the army of horrors have been duffed up, this suggests that the Osprey only took out 2 x Nightmare Demolishers I had already killed 4 trash mobs before activating the ospreys autopilot.
http://i43.tinypic.com/102s0zn.jpg
Please post all comments and feedback in the new PTS Update FC.26.20120326a.3 thread, or in ones dedicated to specific features/systems.