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Lobbying for a Lobby
Archived Post
Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
To be frank,
There are certain players that I simply don't want to have on my radar and I stop playing the game features I like because I don't want to be bothered with them.. this was the neccessity that sparked the inspiration. Also, what if I WANT to do a 3 vs 3 pvp match instead of 5 vs 5? And finally, a lobby system helps us Roleplayers get into PvP.
My Supergroup has asked for this time after time, my friends from PvP as well, and anyone complaining about the queue system likely has too. Team PvP is set up and coming soon, but more needs to happen with the pvp vendor system that cannot be addressed through duels.
Therefore I present: "The Arena"
The Arena is an instance you can queue into from anywhere (please also give us a Map location too, like in the area behind the mystic/science crafting buildings in Renaissance Center.. it has the most free space and isn't being used.. the place where you take Harmon after saving him during his speech.)
'The Arena is a map identical to Carlos' gym (maybe metallic textured instead of brick). The main lobby is for 'Free Agent" PvP. The 3 rooms are for chosen PvP. in the center there should be a large space with benches and tables (think Mean Girls) where teams can size each other up and pick and choose.
Features in lobby include:
This goes a long way toward giving us self moderated PvP.. which I think the player-base at LARGE wants from PvP. and the "elite pvpers" get what they want too..
You could even have a "league" system started and run completely by players.
PS: I miss you Tumerboy
There are certain players that I simply don't want to have on my radar and I stop playing the game features I like because I don't want to be bothered with them.. this was the neccessity that sparked the inspiration. Also, what if I WANT to do a 3 vs 3 pvp match instead of 5 vs 5? And finally, a lobby system helps us Roleplayers get into PvP.
My Supergroup has asked for this time after time, my friends from PvP as well, and anyone complaining about the queue system likely has too. Team PvP is set up and coming soon, but more needs to happen with the pvp vendor system that cannot be addressed through duels.
Therefore I present: "The Arena"
The Arena is an instance you can queue into from anywhere (please also give us a Map location too, like in the area behind the mystic/science crafting buildings in Renaissance Center.. it has the most free space and isn't being used.. the place where you take Harmon after saving him during his speech.)
'The Arena is a map identical to Carlos' gym (maybe metallic textured instead of brick). The main lobby is for 'Free Agent" PvP. The 3 rooms are for chosen PvP. in the center there should be a large space with benches and tables (think Mean Girls) where teams can size each other up and pick and choose.
Features in lobby include:
- "Free Agent" section where people who want to be suprised by team can choose and log to play as current this would be where BASH and ZA participants go to enter their maps as well.
- Team Game choice: UTC, Stronghold, and King of the Hill in the three respective locker rooms.
- PUG system used in open missions in main Lobby Rooms.
- UTC map choices via the system used to choose powerhouse theater backgrounds.
- No Dueling inside "The Arena"
- Team Leaders must step on pads (like in duel arena in PoHo) to open match instance.
- No level gate for participation nor closing PvP maps to lower levels
- Less reliance on the coPvP channel to find PvP games.
This goes a long way toward giving us self moderated PvP.. which I think the player-base at LARGE wants from PvP. and the "elite pvpers" get what they want too..
You could even have a "league" system started and run completely by players.
PS: I miss you Tumerboy
Post edited by Archived Post on
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srsly, couldn't agree more, rly wish they'd implement something like this.
it's awesome that we have the ability to create channels for chat, but sad that we have to rely on a player-created channel for organization of matches, especially considering that you might have 20 - 30 players on at some times... premade vs premade is so fun, and we need more ways to do it.
And with ALL tiers in one place it makes the PvP community not look like the 30 people who play tier 4.. it could be a pretty jumpin place!
Team duels are done. But PvP is not just "i kill you" .. that's what the scenarios give you. I prefer SH and Bash personally, but different games reward different things.. but back to my original post, I don't want to suffer some of the BS that goes down in PvP. So I'm just asking for the chance to use PvP without the BS.. if i refuse to play with character X or want a "concept only" match.. whatever the case. I can organize it myself.. AND get more than one instance at a time which is one of my BIGGEST complaints about PvP.. having to wait to get in it.
Thus, I'd be willing to support this idea.
PS: Food for thought, there are many PvP'ers that have historically spent a lot of money on this game. And I know many of those same individuals are not please of having to re-learn an all new system (the specialization stuff) when they spent lots of money on perfecting. Voluntary expenditures on their part, but I can understand where they are frustrated (only in the game industry could it be considered acceptable to so seriously alter a product AFTER it's sold). This might be a positive that I could use to advocate to those people that they give Champion's a second chance and bring some of those friends back into the fold.
He was just looking for a way to go PvP without getting that one guy who sworn to throw the match on one side, and ego storm + geyser you to death on the other because you critisized his point of view of tanking.
Problem is that the number of PvPers isn't massive. Stalking will work in both ways. And healers will have a hard time getting a match lol.
However it will encourage premades, like.. alot, assuming that they do more than just "who's actually there" and set private stuff.
When did I ever type that dude? Making a mere suggestion and now you're putting words in my text box like I said that. Get your information straight and calculate your actions before you put something in after me.
Did he edit away what he wrote? I don't see it.
/facepalm
10char
Nope, no edit at all. Shortened the whole quote when commenting as I felt uncomfortable to quote massive walls of text but the answer was pointed at him mostly. Not getting much why he's mad but well, let's hope this suggestion doesn't get closed aswell.
I wonder, why noone mentioned it already? No need for arena, the only thing that we need right now is fixed queue system, that won't allow matches like 5 vs 3 or 3 vs 1 to happen. And allso will "check" build that players using. So both teams will have equal amount of heals, defence and offence. And it's very easy to do actually.
Problem is I'm getting that Jaybezz doesn't really like the current crop of people who pvp now, and wants to have private matches for multiple reasons. Having seen him on forum and in game a big one probably is he likes to RP, and build RP toons, so minmaxing makes for a painful, unfun experience for him. A private match lets him have fun PvPing with friends, without worrying about someone coming in who one shots everyone or talks trash.
Fixing the queue system is meh imo because the low queues are more a function of the low amount of pvpers in game. You get 5v3 because there are eight people interested in the match, or ten people with two who don't bother joining it due to inconvenient timing. With enough pvpers, the queues being busted are moot because you get the additional people making it a full 5v5 relatively quickly.
to this i say "so what". You only get PvP gear from PvP vendors. If you go farm your friends to get PvP gear.. fine.
Is it really so bad to have more people engaged in PvP? "but people who suck will use it and win" is not a valid enough reason to allow the bull**** of this games huge imbalance.
Will SOME people exploit the system .. probably (many fewer after major game update). But who cares.. its not like they get any benefit from it that you can't get already by "getting lucky enough" to play in a match that is fair and at your level.
And if I never wanted to play a 5 on 5 match in the first place? Or if I am having a premade 3 v 3 then "god" shows up to ruin my premade run.. Not to mention that it seems to only allow ONE map per PvP. So if 20 people want to use UTC 10 of them are sitting around waiting for the previous map to be available.. I can't confirm this because no one PvPs in the first place.. but IF it were possible to proc our OWN instances I wouldn't spend 50% of the time i'm logged in "waiting" for a PvP map to pop.. then getting in and praying **Insert Character here** doesn't show up. Spoiler Alert: They WILL show up.
This change will GROW the pvp base. More of the "exclusive only" thinking already has the pvp queue dwindled so even PvPers don't use it.
I'm not into PvP, so take what I say with a smile and a shrug.
But isn't it better that they farm the stuff between themselves (knowing that it's mostly to do some PvE later) than plague and farm ZA like it's currently the case?
By allowing farmers to congregate, you also get to separate the chaff from the grain.
They farm in their corner, you PvP for real in yours.
Or is it just a matter of epeen and "Oh look at that gear, I PvP"?
(Please read the previous sentence while hearing LMFAO "Girl look at that body, I work out", for maximum impact XD)
I heard this song few times.. I won't listen to it again.. ever. Btw, good point, but it's like lowering crime rate by giving criminals free money. They won't need to steal anymore, but is it really that good idea?
@Jaybezz, exploiting game is bad, no matter how you put it. Devs must do everything they can to make as hard as possible to exploit the game, not add more ways of how to do it. And adding "arena" will give players even easier way to exploit PvP system then now with ZA. Because if in ZA there can be 1 fair player who can destroy all of the "farmers" if he will notice that people there relogging, in "arena" no one will be able to stop them.
Also, after team dueals wil be ready you won't have to be worried about "God" showing up in "your" 3 vs 3 match. And why would you need an arena? RenCen is a place for duels, for team duels community can choose another, bigger, unofficial place for duels.
And can you please explain to me, how exactly "arena" will grow PvP comunity? If we will forget that "private" matches part, because i explained why it won't matter already.
@stagcutlery I get your point, but as I see it, Jaybezz just wants "fun" for himself, without thinking about flows in this idea, even when there is just 1 flow. Maybe I am wrong.
There's a map now where people who are interested in PvP can interact.. this ALONE (without all the other features) will foster a growth in PvP.
Lets say it were all public and NO premade teams.. the acclaim (or tokens) is still based on factors of the match. Someone is willing to log in and lose on purpose, they can do that now.. does it gain them acclaim.. not alot.
Also i left BASH and ZA out of the "private match" function.. though a private form of BASH would be great too.. just don't know how you'd impliment it.
There is a difference between a Duel and the Hero Games. I want to play in the hero games. i really do.. but i will not participate in them when and be subjected to someone being an ***hole. That's like saying I have to go to work in a hostile work environment. They can't fix the ***hole then let me fix where i work. Technically you could make a 5 v 5 premade NOW and exploit the system to get acclaim.. people just don't.
The people who DO exploit the system join a Stronghold match and ROFLStomp the opponents while refusing to beat the opposing leader.. basically player farming for 20 minutes and getting a WHOLE lot of acclaim.. the ELITES are exploiting this .. not the casual gamer.
Finally I say.. they spent alot of $ and programming trying to give us the hero games. I personally wish they just made the game ALL PvE and kicked out all PvP except deuls (if they'd program content and new maps/levels/powers). But they already invested in something that is used by like .. 30 people? Get more people in there and get a return on your investment FIRST. Then think about fixing the balance. Exploiters who Exploit to get PvP gear will be all dressed up with no where to go because no one will want to PvP with them.. and now they don't have to.
Weird logic... I don't really understand you. If you are casual player, then that means that yuo don't need acclaims, so what's the difference between duels and Hero Games? You said yourself, you don't want ZA into your arena, so team duel will be exactly the same thing as UTC(or is it UTG... URG... don't remember) arena. 2 teams, fighting with each other. So why not just duel?
Allso, what you saying is that just giving to PvP players their own "place" will increase their numbers. I doubt. As i doubt that many RP:ers are sitting in the Caprise.
Once again, your point is, elites abusing game mechanics, so let them do it as long as it doesn't harm anyone else. It's logical, but then it would be easier to simply "remove" those rules, so farming Stronghold or ZA won't be against rules anymore. Rules are there for a reason... not all ofcourse, some are pretty dumb, but anyways.
So, as I see it, your logic lacks something. And so far I haven't seen any explanations about why we need that arena that would make any sense. No offence, just my opinion.
I don't take offense to your tone or words. i simply see the value the arena vs the value of the current form (which is just as exploitable) and see the Arena as more valuable:
I play with you gladly in a PUG in game Evil-Doll.. and there's still a place for PUGs. But assuming that just because people want to play in the hero games (Stronghold, King of the Hill, or the Maps created by UTC) are exploiting the system is a false choice to me.
BUT assuming people who wanted to go play their friends in "let me beat you matches" is enough to get them enough acclaim (tokens) to buy things from the vendors.. Fix the acclaim (token) system.
Maybe you get acclaim for how much you hit AND how much you GET hit (i think it works that way now.. along with time in match) .. but the fact is .. if someone wants to spend 20 min in a match to get acclaim.. they can. Nothing in the game is stopping them from doing so now.. the addition of player created content will, in my opinion, not encourage this.. if anything it's a discouragement.. you could have a GOOD match with your friends and possibly win.. and get more acclaim than asking them "hey.. let me win".
then why bother to comment? sometimes it's just best to back away.
lol wha?
srsly, I don't think you properly grasp the need, nor the discussion at hand. just let ppl dream; it's not like it's gonna happen or divert too much (any) time from the costume piece dev department time.
Don't you think that's what forums are for?... Discussing? Showing your opinion? Even when you are wrong in something? If it wasn't that way then devs would have deleted posts that are "incorrect" in something. If I am wrong, correct me, that's it, I will accept being wrong and will rethink my opinion.
@Jaybezz, have to agree with the "fix the acclaim system". But that's what I actually meant. Devs need to fix things first, only then add new contest. By adding arena right away, without fixing Hero Games, will only increase amount of "broken" things. That's why I think they need to work on Hero Games first. And if they will fix it... wich probably never going to happen, we can consider arena being a good idea and ask devs to implement it into the game.
But I see that you won't change your opinion about it, so ok, as Another said, I'll just back away and will hope that devs will agree with me more than with you.
If you wish PvP didnt exist in CO why are you posting suggestions for it. Just ignore it, pretend it didnt exist, and go on with the PvE experience.
There are many things about this game I love that are so broken that I wish didn't exist. The hero games is atop that list. Balance of player vs player just wasn't there from the beginning. They could have taken 6 months at the beginning of the life of this game and thought of player vs player balance.
- - -
Off the topic:
My main toon is a build swapping toon with 5 passives. However the build swap system has been on of the most exploitable, bug intensive, non-developed systems in the game. I have said in the PTS forum.. if they are not going to make the build swapping work as intended (no lingering buffs, unlimited items, resetting cooldowns... you name it.. it was there at one point). If they don't fix it.. take it out.
I apologize regarding my tone in that post. Had a weird day yesterday, and I let it get the better of me. I'd hate to think I contributed to someone feeling like they don't belong, 'cause I know how that feels (try being a person that predominantly pvps in this game and take that outlook when you read a thread by a person labeling themselves as pve-only).
OT: look at like this ED. a lobby would simply give teams an opportunity to see what they're up against. if for no other reason, a lobby would be welcome. pvp matches in this game are the single instance where you have no idea what you're going to face from one time to the next.
wanna run a lair? run it once and it's likely to be similar the next time; you can build accordingly, or team accordingly. wanna run an OM; pretty much the same as a lair. wanna duel? you can take a look at what your opponent is running to see if you even wanna bother trying. wanna pvp? queue up and take your chances, 'cause you simply never know what you're gonna get (unless you arrange premades in a chat channel, and even that might not work; some members might get dropped, or the other team might not make it at all, even if you coordinate when everyone accepts a pop). the lack of a lobby system further complicates things for new players trying to get into pvp, thus reducing the potential population, resulting in a minimal population. unfortunately, the system that's been in place ever since I arrived here has allowed that scenario to be actualized in CO.
/endrambling.
Got it, ignorance is bliss. See you in game. ^^
Sounds like a really bad build. Also I just don't like you. Also isn't there other forum posts about a PvP lobby? Quit stealing other people's threads trying to make urself look smart to a community that doesn't care about YOU.
next tuesday then?
i did a forum search for a lobby and found nothing. Also hating on someone's build is the #1 way to **** someone off.
Point is, build swapping is a broken mechanic.. fix it or remove it.
see you then...
****
Your above definition of "Arena" to me is pretty much the equivalent of the upcoming Team Duels feature.
For example,
1. as a social map (teaching new players, RP, and just OOC friend making) - This often happens in "regular" PvP. I've had matches where I've gone 15/0, received a tell saying "Holy smokes - you're good!" and it quickly progressed into me giving him/her some pointers about builds, pvp strategies and sometimes even suggesting a new archetype for the person. On the flip side, I've had my butt handed to me badly....only for that person to say "Good game" then without me asking, offer strategies on how I can improve my gameplay. You don't need an "Arena" system for this to happen.
2. As an equalizer to PvP inequality? Again, this is pretty much what the Team Duels feature removes. You take 2 of your strongest, most knowledgeable buddies against 3 other people and have at her. That way you're fighting on even terms from the get go. If your team loses badly, you can't say it was due to inequality.
3. A deterrent to people being jerks - in team duels, I'm assuming you have the option of declining a duel. If there's someone on the opposing team you don't like - "Decline". If you're simply not ready, "Decline". Again, I can't help but reiterate, you don't need "your" Arena system - team duels already covers this.
4. This I'll agree with you on. PvPers have been asking for Team Duels so that they can control EXACTLY who their teammates will be and know exactly who their opponents will be. I remember watching one of GammaBreaker's video where it was supposed to be a 5v5 premade SG match and it ended up being 5 v 3 + 2 randoms. Yet again though, I can't help but feel that your definition of Arena is literally synonymous of Team Duels.
In essence, you're getting exactly what you wanted - it's just not called "Arena".
I dunno Another. When I queue solo for PvP, I enjoy NOT knowing who my teammates are going to be or who we're up against. There's a thrill for me in say UTC to come out of the gates, rush in with the team and get into an all-out brawl - all the while figuring out "Ok, so and so is a Fire build, so and so is a Defiler, OMG healer, lolsingleblade" and so forth. Learning and adapting on the fly is a key component, especially when you don't know what you're up against. A second thought came to my mind - since when is PvP supposed to be fair or on even terms? It's your team's best against their best. So long as noone is "cheating", "exploting", or however you want to quantify it - it's all good. You win some, you lose some and that's the fun in it.
Eek Ubtri. Jaybezz must have REALLY ****ed you off for you to say something like this. YOU were the one that started the PvP videos thread (which I highly enjoy reading/watching) and asked that people remain constructive and positive. While MMOs are a "social" environment and thus I can't expect that everyone will like everyone - you're the last person I'd ever expect to say something like what I quoted.
@Jaybezz - To be quite honest, I REALLY don't think PvP is for you. PvP can be harsh, brutal, unwelcoming, uninviting, daunting (as someone's quote reads) and last but not least - unfair. Just from reading this thread, it sounds like you want to remove the harsh, competitive nature of PvP and turn it into a "giggle giggle tee hee* Pillow Fight! lololol" match. Seriously, you may as well just RP that you're beating each other with Nerf bats. As for fixing the Acclaim system, forget it. Take your licks in PvP to get the Acclaim necessary and/or hope that a PvPer out there is (still) willing to purchase gear for you. I know this is definitely coming off as mean, spiteful or harsh and I honestly don't mean for it to sound that way and I apologize for that - but again, I still can't help but feel that PvP is simply not for you.
Edit: Fixed some formatting.
First point. Dueling is not the Hero Games. They are not equivalent or "the same thing". They come with separate rules, challenges and rewards.
Secondly, the reason "pvp is dead" is not because people don't duel. It's because no one wants to touch the hero games with a X foot pole.
Thirdly, if you like being surprised by your teammates there is still the option of running in the "Free Agent" pvp system which works identically to how PvP works now. No option is being taken from the player in this suggestion.
Quartedly, you can't control who will be a jerk. But you should be able to control who you play with/ignore etc. This it nothing new. You can ignore their speech but you still have to play with/against them. If you don't want someone in your view or purview you should be able to turn your head and look the other way. Now your only recourse is to leave a match.. which is what everyone wants right?
Pentally, "Maybe PvP is not for you"? I don't presume to tell anyone how they should play this game. It sets a bad precident.. If I were to say.. "Maybe costume design isn't for you" or "Maybe Roleplaying isn't for you" or "Maybe PvE isn't for you"... elitism narcissism and overall -ism of the player base has been the number one deterrent to people who I'd enjoyed playing with in this game that's causing them to leave. There used to be a positive thriving social community.. now it's all haters.
Hexally, I don't want to play in non-competitive PvP. But EVEN IF I DID advocate for "giggle giggle tee hee* Pillow Fight! lololol" matches. I cite as example: Because YOU don't like the Special Olympics doesn't make their athletes any less of an athlete. Nor does it take away from the participants' competitive spirit and enjoyment.
Octally, How is someones premade vs premade match even going to affect you? at all? They'll be on their map competing against their opponents.
and Finally, Social Roleplaying and PvP are not exclusive.. I can (and do) SUCESSFULLY role play in EVERY match I'm in. Social areas increase social interaction between players which is the #1 client retention tool for an MMO. You know of a place NOW where people can learn about PvP? Get into PvP? Find and see other people who like PvP? Fact is there's like 40 people who PvP anyway. With that few numbers you wonder why cryptic shrugs about PvP programming .. Want PvP to get better get more players.. The Arena is a way to get more players.
- -
Don't come for me. Don't presume to know me. I didn't personally attack any body. People take it upon themselves to take enjoyment from other person... the internet makes narcissists of us all.
This was what the person said (out of nowhere) regarding this friendly thread about screenshots.
His post was so awful that this happened...
So ya, I just don't like this person. I never see them in Hero Games ever yet they feel their input should be worshiped. All this person does is RP from what I know, and then talks smack to actual PvPers.
Problem is that you guys say this and wonder why so few people bother with it, the queues are slow to pop, and you keep seeing the same faces. CO PvP has just evolved to a point where it's too brutal for it's own good. People have been voting with their feet, ever since it got to the point where 10k hits and 10k health started becoming standard in the matches.
Maybe the rest of the playerbase would like a less hardcore option for many of jaybezz's reasons. Not every pvp game has to be harsh or competitive to the utmost.
Thanks for enlightening me on the situation, Ubtri. I knew there had to be atleast some reason why you dislike Jaybezz. Like I said before in my previous post, you always seem to keep a cool head and try to remain as positive and constructive as possible - though like real life, we just run into people that we simply can't stand for one reason or another.
Don't get me wrong though - I don't dislike or hate Jaybezz...yet. I simply tried to point out two things:
1) His version of "Arena" (in my opinion) is the equivalent of what Team Duels is bringing. It's simply a different name.
2) I suggested that PvP may not be for him. However, as per your quote, Jay seems to think he's a PvP God. Who would have known....?
I then get this 9-point reply from him in attempt to slight or upset me? I dunno. I'll hand it to him though - the Special Olympics analogy was good. Either way, I didn't reply to his post simply because I didn't want this to escalate a flame war and consequently have the thread closed.
I suppose you (and Jay) are right on this point and I'll admit that I'm at fault for being a bit too quick in this situation to suggest that PvP isn't for him or anyone else. You're right - it doesn't help the population one bit.
As for a a "less" hardcore option - what could you recommend aside from single duels or team duels? PvP in CO, as brutal as it can be, isn't exactly "hardcore" or competitive. There's no ladder system, no arena system (note - when I use "Arena", I'm using it in the context of say WoW's arena - a rating system if you will). I've noticed that a good number of the pvpers here on these forums just go in and have fun; win or lose. Yeah, there may be some bragging rights or "Remember when"s but it's all in good sport for the most part. Which reminds me:
Drunken PvP this Saturday @ 9 PM EST! (Please quote me if I'm wrong)
you're correct, and I agree, but maybe I'm just a touch more jaded than you as far as CO & its queue algorithm are concerned; or, as I suspect, I could have done a better job of separating that last paragraph.
I've queue'd solo far, far more than I've ever queued with a team in this game. the times that I've run into a premade team of 5 FFs with 1+ healers while I'm alone or with one to two ATs has greatly exceeded the number of times I've run into anything that could be considered remotely similar to "even terms." even terms, to me, would simply mean evenly numbered teams.
I feel that you may have put a bit too much weight on one part of your quoting above, in particular: "a lobby would simply give teams an opportunity to see what they're up against. if for no other reason, a lobby would be welcome." that's partly my fault; I should have broken that last paragraph into mulitiple paragraphs to indicate less relation, which would more correctly correlate to my view.
what I meant by "what they're up against." was referencing more the uneven teams (2v5, 1v3&4, etc) than any particular build selections of your opponents. I, too, find it fun to run into varying types of teams, but I can see how that could kinda run together since I had just referenced seeing what your opponent is running before a duel. my bad. in that vein, I do prefer to duel FFs, if I'm gonna duel at all (rarely do) if I can, just to cut down on any potential feeling that I might be trying grief on an inferno or something (I'm not).
also, ubee! chill, man!
Just for you, Brother Another!
/signed
Hero Games =/= Duels.
Right... Nice job reviving an outdated thread that you yourself started. I am sure you patted yourself on the back for the "i told ya so" (although, you have told us nothing.)
Get over yourself bezzy/Gamehobo. You cry that PvPers have an ego yet here you are, inflating your own.
I have never claimed not to have an ego. I'm a divo and always will be. I just am a divo who is also right.
What's a "divo"?
Divo = Male
| ME | A "Guide" Book" | | I, have a "DREAM! | ( Member since Feb 2008 ) ... ?
[SIGPIC]http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b132/AngelOfCaine/STILLS/Misc/CO-Sig_01e.png[/SIGPIC]
1) Ubtri, you're cool, but stfu, stop shoving your epeen into people's faces.
2) Jaybezz...this thread died so lets not bother revieving it for more morons to troll.