Agreed; and these are problems that need to be addressed. There should be a way to draw that set of guards away from the Mega-D and then fight them in a more secluded locale away from prying eyes. This might be accomplished by a ranged attack from outside of the Mega-D's sensor range (or a taunt, in the case of pure melee build); but only if it's possible to get into range of those guards without getting into range of the Mega-D.
A Resistance Fighter disguise would let you run right up to them to get their attention, then lead them to an ambush site away from the Mega-D - assuming that your Resistance Fighter buddies don't decide to stand their ground and fight. A Resistance Fighter Transformation device would give you a shot at fighting right under the Mega-D's nose, assuming the resulting power set isn't nerfed too badly. (And if you go this route, it should be nerfed a bit; after all, there's a reason why Griz went looking for superheroes. Fighting as a Resistance member should be inferior enough that it merely gets used as a stopgap until you're somewhere where you can safely go full hero on the mobs. And you might allow for a Perk if the heroes complete all of their objectives without breaking cover.)
Oh, here's another idea: by the time you get to the Conquerors' Jet, you've earned enough respect among the Resistance that their members start deferring to you: the Resistance fighters that you activate from that point on get treated as Controllable Pets.
Every time I see a post suggesting a Resistance fighter disguise, I'm obligated to post that I strongly disagree. We already use enough disguises in the prison. I play Champs to play my hero, not disguise them with a device for half the mission.
So...I just ran this for the first time, and I greatly enjoyed it. While I agree the Mega-D's are kind of a pain solo, I did manage to kill them, after overloading them, with my Quarry/Elusive Monk/Evasive Maneuvers/Dual Blades toon, with a lot of blocking and liberal use of BCR...and I was glad to have taken Ball Lightning.
The only complaint I truly had about the pack was the fight with Endbringer. Not only was it ridiculously hard, but it just wasn't particularly fun while being hard. Basically, what it boiled down to was me running around in circles around the archway near where it spawns whenever Dr. D went down so I could stay out of it's range, as otherwise it would have trashed me. Even being in melee range of it (making sure to stay behind it) there were times where it did ridiculous amounts of damage to me. While I'm sure it would be much easier with a ranged toon, as a melee toon it kind of sucked. I died more times than I'd like to admit to trying to kill that stupid thing.
Overall, I think it was an excellent piece of content, but the final fight needs to be changed somewhat at least on normal, so that instead of feeling like a torturous endurance test, it's instead an enjoyable fight that is suitably challenging,
Every time I see a post suggesting a Resistance fighter disguise, I'm obligated to post that I strongly disagree. We already use enough disguises in the prison. I play Champs to play my hero, not disguise them with a device for half the mission.
Understood, and agreed. That said: as an optional measure for avoiding the Overseers (as opposed to the way that you're usually forced to disguise yourself in order to complete most missions that currently involve disguises), it's very much in keeping with the scenario's concept that Harmon's forces are on the lookout for supers; and while there would be a benefit to using the costume, it shouldn't be so important to this stage that you can't skip it if you don't like it.
And note that the benefits conferred are tuned to be most advantageous to players who choose to skulk around instead of taking things on head on; I submit that most such players have less of an issue with using disguises than those who prefer the latter approach.
+1 on Robo's suggestions for destroying the mega-D with the console on normal.
If you want a harder challenge, ramp up the dif. It's as simple as that.
Have you tested Resistance yet ? I think if you had you would not be in favor of this . At all . Concept builds and AT's will be robbed of the satisfaction of actually bringing one down , and if they try to up the difficulty , as it stands right now they will be shredded to pieces if they try it while soloing (which technically ap's are supposed to be) and if they are on a team with 2 or 3 other at's or other underperforming builds .
Have you tested Resistance yet ? I think if you had you would not be in favor of this . At all . Concept builds and AT's will be robbed of the satisfaction of actually bringing one down , and if they try to up the difficulty , as it stands right now they will be shredded to pieces if they try it while soloing (which technically ap's are supposed to be) and if they are on a team with 2 or 3 other at's or other underperforming builds .
Right, because I so enjoy getting my face ground into the concrete repeatedly even on the easiest setting. Very satisfying indeed.
Have you tested Resistance yet ? I think if you had you would not be in favor of this . At all . Concept builds and AT's will be robbed of the satisfaction of actually bringing one down , and if they try to up the difficulty , as it stands right now they will be shredded to pieces if they try it while soloing (which technically ap's are supposed to be) and if they are on a team with 2 or 3 other at's or other underperforming builds .
Yeah, I kind of have. I tanked two mega-Ds on elite at the same time while my partner completed objectives. It doesn't change the fact that doing it was annoying as hell and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Edit: I also had the DD bug during the endbringer fight, which ended up making the AP uncompletable so I haven't seen the ending. I tried to tank the Endbringer but that's kind of impossible, he kinda hits for 3k+ maintains or some crap, I think I got nuked for 60k base damage or something
I agree it's tough . I had to abuse game mechanics , use henchmen , etc , and can count on one hand how many I dropped on normal setting . This is with a character that has no trouble running Therakiel on Elite . The issue at hand is beeing overlooked . It's a scaling issue . Instead of instakilling it why not just further reduce it's health , damage output , and it's abilities to summon more mega-ds by activating the console . I don't see why it has to be one way or the other , this is still being tested .
The appeal of a very dangerous environment full of super hero hunting bad **** looking giant robots will be far less fun when people who can only run it on the normal difficulty setting neutralize that threat simply by running at that level of difficulty .
There has to be some sort of wiggle room . I think further reduction of overseer health , damage output , and summon ability by activating the charging consoles would work and would satisfy both camps .
I agree it's tough . I had to abuse game mechanics , use henchmen , etc , and can count on one hand how many I dropped on normal setting . This is with a character that has no trouble running Therakiel on Elite . The issue at hand is beeing overlooked . It's a scaling issue . Instead of instakilling it why not just further reduce it's health , damage output , and it's abilities to summon more mega-ds by activating the console . I don't see why it has to be one way or the other , this is still being tested .
The appeal of a very dangerous environment full of super hero hunting bad **** looking giant robots will be far less fun when people who can only run it on the normal difficulty setting neutralize that threat simply by running at that level of difficulty .
There has to be some sort of wiggle room . I think further reduction of overseer health , damage output , and summon ability by activating the charging consoles would work and would satisfy both camps .
We're talking about this only for the "Normal" difficulty... the easiest setting. Want to fight the MegaD? Kick it up to Difficult. I don't see what is so difficult to understand about that.
This isn't a matter of not understanding; it's a matter of not agreeing. My own position (and LAFURY's, unless I'm missing something) is that being able to instakill an Overseer is too easy for any level of difficulty. And bear in mind that I'm one of the players who complained quite forcefully that being forced to fight an Overseer that had been reduced to a third of its health was still too much for Normal difficulty: I understand intimately the need for Normal difficulty toons to be able to go through this stage of the AP without being required to fight the Overseers.
I just don't think that attaching "I win" buttons to the Overseers is the way to do it.
Well considering that you wouldn't be getting the loot for the MD by using the console to kill it and the fact that AP gear on normal difficulty is nothing special anyway, I don't see the problem with letting them kill it with the console. Its not like people are going to be farming uber gear on normal difficulty or anything and if they feel that it is too easy being able to kill it with the console, they can try it on Difficult or higher difficulty. OR they can just let the thing wake up. I don't see the point in nerfing the MegaD to the point that it is no longer a MegaD. And there's no guarantee that getting to the console and turning it off is going to be a walk in the park either.
Edit: Oh, and which of the solo ATs were you planning on fine tuning the MegaD against? The Behemoth or the Disciple?
Well considering that you wouldn't be getting the loot for the MD by using the console to kill it and the fact that AP gear on normal difficulty is nothing special anyway, I don't see the problem with letting them kill it with the console. Its not like people are going to be farming uber gear on normal difficulty or anything and if they feel that it is too easy being able to kill it with the console, they can try it on Difficult or higher difficulty. OR they can just let the thing wake up. I don't see the point in nerfing the MegaD to the point that it is no longer a MegaD. And there's no guarantee that getting to the console and turning it off is going to be a walk in the park either.
Edit: Oh, and which of the solo ATs were you planning on fine tuning the MegaD against? The Behemoth or the Disciple?
Ok now I'm confused . You don't see the areas in various posts where pretty much everyone agrees the overseers are way too tough on normal as things currently stand ? Okay to just to be clear :
1. Yes they are too strong on normal .
2. This is still undergoing testing , we want the overseers health , damage , and abilities , too be REDUCED to a point where defeating one is easier on NORMAL difficulty than it is now . ALOT EASIER .
3. I don't understand what fine tuning a build towards a Mega D is . That does not seem relevant . They are adventure pack critters , still in the testing phase . On normal , level 11+ , any player should be given the ability to fight one . Reducing it's current level of health , damage output , etc , by a significant amount on the next push to test might solve the scaling problem on a difficulty setting of normal .
I just don't see how flying to a console and activating it and destroying an overseer will provide the same amount of enjoyment as fighting and defeating what makes the mayhem stage what it is . Nerfing the overseers in the next push to test bigtime , and then trying again to see whether or not they are still too strong , seems to this customer like a better idea .
**just read dataweaver said it better in a shorter amount of text . agreed until the "skipping fighting them" part . They need nerfing , on normal , and soon .
I don't understand what fine tuning a build towards a Mega D is .
I figured this would be the easiest part to understand. Let me rephrase the question: How much do you want to nerf it? There is a HUGE difference between what the Behemoth is able to take on solo and what the Disciple is able to take on solo.
Oh , ok I get it . Can't play on my lunch break only have time to read forums quickly . I'll run the first portion of Resistance later today , after work , and give a guesstimate . Although it'll probably sound something like " sweet @$%" it's been 30 minutes JUST GO DOWN ALREADY " .
Also , if this is what they are going to be like on normal , how on earth would one complete this ap on hard or elite w/out a 4-5 man team of optimized freeforms ?! Come on Robobo . SCALING DUDE ! IT'S WAY OUT OF WHACK FOR THE MAYHEM PORTION . NERF OVERSEERS !
K i'll try it later again and will bring a calculator and scratch paper .
Having an issue with the Cornered Rats Escape area. The bomb crate I am supposed to interact with to set charges will not interact. Also, if I head toward the open door I came out of to get to the bomb area, I am transported back by the radio detonator hallway
In order for a Disciple to realistically solo a Mega-D, it'd have to be like, 5-10% of the Mega-D on normal. That's not fighting a Mega-D, and makes really no sense.
Rather than the consoles just instantly killing the mega-destroids, how about making the console abort the start sequence for the mega-destroid, causing it to go to sleep for a longer period or something? All you need for the mission is a way of keeping the mega-destroid out of your hair while you deal with other objectives.
In order for a Disciple to realistically solo a Mega-D, it'd have to be like, 5-10% of the Mega-D on normal. That's not fighting a Mega-D, and makes really no sense.
If it's been heavily damaged by use of the charging console , why does it not make sense ? While they are Mega-D's why cant they be significantly reduced in power ? These are not the Mega-D's in the open mission in Millenium City . These are reskinned adventure pack critters , and should be treated as such .
What makes no sense is to take one of the more intriguing and exciting enemies (albeit extremely frustrating to fight at the moment , something which can and should be totally changed ) out of the picture entirely by rendering them useless in the adventure pack on the normal difficulty setting .
If you guys really think that further nerfing somehow doesn't fit the theme because " That's not fighting a Mega-D " , then ok I give up .
I was sincerely hoping a middle ground could be reached , because while right now they are incredibly difficult , I anticipated that the scaling issues would be addressed at some point and destroying them after they had been damaged via console , while it should provide a challenge , would become a possibility for casual players .
If you reduce them to mere window dressing on the normal difficulty setting with an insta-kill option , you will be taking what could be a really fun feature out the game . In a game that is so starved for content , I'm begging you , please do not go down this road .
What do you think will happen if players decide they want to fight them ? They will have to up the difficulty setting to do so , making the Overseers even stronger . I implore you : watch the Resistance teaser trailer again . What in that video stands out the most ? To me , it's the Overseers . People are going to want to fight giant robots that are imprisoning super heroes .
Ok enough , you guys hash it out . One last time I will beg : Please nerf the bejeezus out of them , but don't make insta-kill an option . Please Robo , take another look at the scaling , and ask yourself if you think that playing the adventure pack on normal with the only interaction between the player and whatever the Overseer ends up being when you have implemented all your final decisions , IS THE CLICK OF A CONSOLE .
In order for a Disciple to realistically solo a Mega-D, it'd have to be like, 5-10% of the Mega-D on normal. That's not fighting a Mega-D, and makes really no sense.
Exactly... though I was thinking more like 1 or 2% Hardly what would classify as Mega-anything. The point is that nerfing a MegaD down to the point where it is trivial to defeat is very undramatic. I prefer the hazard of "If I let this thing wake up, it is going to stomp me flat." Creates more dramatic tension, knowing the very real threat this thing poses and knowing that if you don't get it shut down it is not going to be a good day.
What do you think will happen if players decide they want to fight them ? They will have to up the difficulty setting to do so , making the Overseers even stronger .
I thought the only difference between Normal and Difficult was the team scaling in non-AP missions. In AP scaling there is no difference in Normal and Difficult since the AP scale with team size even on Normal.
I know but Robo didn't give us an idea of what they would look like on difficult . I assume it will be the same as normal . I wonder if it would be possible to have the mega-d's have some functionality (still heavily nerfed from what they are now ) on a difficulty setting ? Maybe a 75% reduction in health , 60% reduction in damage output , and a %3-5 percent chance to summon another Mega (maximum # of 1) every 60 seconds . If this could be done , I think it might work . I hope Robo decides to implement some sort of scaling mechanic for the difficult setting . Thanks for pointing out that potential possibility .
edit: I can't test this . Haven't been able too for the last 2 days now . When I log in my characters still have resistance in their mission logs at various stages , but I cannot get back into the Harmon building . I have tried discarding the prisoners uniform , dropping the mission , and going back to defender to start over . He dosen't offer me the mission . New characters copied to pts are also unable to get the mission from defender . Is this a bug on my end ? If so what am I doing wrong ?
75% reduction in health and 60% reduction in damage will still kill a non-defensive passive in seconds.
What if they have one or more healing powers ? One or more healing devices ? Are teamed with someone who can heal ? What if they figure out how to juggle aggro between themselves and the resistance fighters if they are soloing and have both heal powers , devices , c-store rez items , craftable rez items , etc etc etc ?
The answer is neither of us actually knows the answer to that , beacuse we can't put it to a test .
Why is The Resistance Elite going to be harder than an Elite run of SL or DF?
I have characters who can manage going into the other APs and knocking them out on Elite, but who can't manage to solo two Mega-D's at the same time. Yes, shame on me for not going totally optimal. So far I have been able to beat the Mega-D's not by killing them, but by tricking them via aggro and pathing related shenanigans long enough to get objectives done. (Which I am cool with, but might be considered borderline exploitative to others)
I also happen to agree with the idea that they shouldn't be killed right out with the push of a button, but rather you should be able to acquire tools to make them possible at all levels of play. We have the console for a Debuff, the resistance soldiers for back up. And because I like sounding like a broken record, how about an optional mini-mission to get the Grizz a tank or something in order to help out a bit? Or at least have it possibly make a diversion that can last long enough for you to click some glowies, or have the demo squad set the jet up for the bomb.
Oh now there's a possibility. Let us hijack one of the tanks to use in clearing out the MegaDs. As the difficulty slider is raised the MegaDs become stronger, making it more difficult to beat them even with the tank, but more easily with the tank than without.
Edit: Yes I know that this would be just another disguise like the prisoner outfit, the guard uniform and even the megad, But unlike the prisoner and guard disguises this one would make sense for why you couldn't use your own powers. I never really understood how a guard or prisoner disguise prevented me from throwing lightning bolts at people...
Why is The Resistance Elite going to be harder than an Elite run of SL or DF?
I have characters who can manage going into the other APs and knocking them out on Elite, but who can't manage to solo two Mega-D's at the same time. Yes, shame on me for not going totally optimal. So far I have been able to beat the Mega-D's not by killing them, but by tricking them via aggro and pathing related shenanigans long enough to get objectives done. (Which I am cool with, but might be considered borderline exploitative to others)
To me, this is symptomatic of a common view that I've been seeing here, and which this latest patch has been encouraging: namely, the idea that fighting the Overseers is mandatory. Based on the flavor text provided by the Griz, I've been under the impression that there ought to be a means of going through this first batch of missions without fighting the Overseers, even on Elite. It needn't be easy to do so; and if you do end up fighting the things, there should be a way (at least on the lower difficulty settings) to level the playing field a bit. But one of the defining features of the Overseers in my book is that you ought to think twice before choosing to confront them: the preferred tactic should be to work around them while clearing out the smaller mobs and completing mission objectives, and if you end up fighting an Overseer it's usually a sign that something went wrong. That's the design philosophy that's implied by Griz's speech.
And if that's the design philosophy that's being used, then I'm OK with the Mega-Ds only being defeatable using specialized Overseer-killer builds and/or large-scale teams. But that means that at no stage in the mission (*cough*Jet*cough*) should you be forced to fight the things: there should always be a way to bypass them, if you're careful and you know what you're doing; and that goes for Elite as well as Normal: if you fight them, it's either because you failed to bypass them or because you think you can take them, not because you have to fight them.
I also happen to agree with the idea that they shouldn't be killed right out with the push of a button, but rather you should be able to acquire tools to make them possible at all levels of play. We have the console for a Debuff, the resistance soldiers for back up. And because I like sounding like a broken record, how about an optional mini-mission to get the Grizz a tank or something in order to help out a bit? Or at least have it possibly make a diversion that can last long enough for you to click some glowies, or have the demo squad set the jet up for the bomb.
I'd favor the inclusion of optional mini-missions that let you acquire various Resistance supers (e.g., Poe; there are several listed in Conquerors' HQ as still being on the loose) who can then tank for you, holding the Overseers' aggro long enough for you to complete the mission objectives (the diversion Leatherhead spoke of).
All good ideas and points . If there isn't time to program a tank or osprey for resistance usage , perhaps a version of a hacked orbital device that insta-kills the overseer near the jet ? Thats the only one that in my estimation just by virtue of location has to be fought unless , as mentioned , abusing pathing mechanics becomes acceptable . Why is the jet even a target ? To prevent a getaway ? Is Harmon going to make a break for a country without extradition treaties or something ?
**sidenote : Please can someone help me I cannot test Resistance atm . I cannot get back into the harmon building , with characters that have the mission at various stages or with ones just ported to the pts . Defender will not give me the mission . What am I doing wrong ?
Oh now there's a possibility. Let us hijack one of the tanks to use in clearing out the MegaDs. As the difficulty slider is raised the MegaDs become stronger, making it more difficult to beat them even with the tank, but more easily with the tank than without.
Edit: Yes I know that this would be just another disguise like the prisoner outfit, the guard uniform and even the megad, But unlike the prisoner and guard disguises this one would make sense for why you couldn't use your own powers. I never really understood how a guard or prisoner disguise prevented me from throwing lightning bolts at people...
Well I was thinking about giving the Grizz the tank, so you can go out and use your own powers and help to kill the mega-D, or go in yourself quickly and click the glowies without having to use another costume yourself. But Dataweavers alternate hero distraction would probably be easier to code.
Right now you have to use your powers in order to help the resistance (or unheroically send wave after wave of them to die by themselves if you aren't up to the bomb yet), and when you use your powers it triggers the mega-D, which causes the whole thing to nosedive if you don't happen to have a mega-D buster build. There is no true stealthy option or viable distraction other than the proposed instant kill switch. And I am not fond of that idea, as I find it kind of cheep at the low end and unfair to people who could otherwise complete the AP at higher difficulties.
the AP needs :
A way to make the mega-d's soloable for everyone if it is going to be mandatory. Multiple optional backup units, buffs, and debuffs is the way to go with this, as the hardcore people can skip some of the optional aid in favor of time.
A way to solidly avoid having to fight the mega-Ds while still being able to do things with a heroic feel. Shamelessly snatching a queue from Tolkien, causing a big enough distraction (like with a stolen tank and small army of super-resistance members~) could cause the evil gaze to divert just long enough for our heroes to get the important stuff done.
Perhaps place one newly-captured Resistance super near the start point of each stage, who you can free and thus recruit as an Overseer tanker for that stage; after that, if he's still alive, he salutes you and takes off for parts unknown. Just make sure that said tank is tough and skilled enough that he can hold the Overseers' attention long enough for you to complete the mission objectives.
This isn't necessarily easier coding; but it does potentially put more MC shout-out characters into the fray, which IMHO is a good thing.
Comments
A Resistance Fighter disguise would let you run right up to them to get their attention, then lead them to an ambush site away from the Mega-D - assuming that your Resistance Fighter buddies don't decide to stand their ground and fight. A Resistance Fighter Transformation device would give you a shot at fighting right under the Mega-D's nose, assuming the resulting power set isn't nerfed too badly. (And if you go this route, it should be nerfed a bit; after all, there's a reason why Griz went looking for superheroes. Fighting as a Resistance member should be inferior enough that it merely gets used as a stopgap until you're somewhere where you can safely go full hero on the mobs. And you might allow for a Perk if the heroes complete all of their objectives without breaking cover.)
Oh, here's another idea: by the time you get to the Conquerors' Jet, you've earned enough respect among the Resistance that their members start deferring to you: the Resistance fighters that you activate from that point on get treated as Controllable Pets.
The only complaint I truly had about the pack was the fight with Endbringer. Not only was it ridiculously hard, but it just wasn't particularly fun while being hard. Basically, what it boiled down to was me running around in circles around the archway near where it spawns whenever Dr. D went down so I could stay out of it's range, as otherwise it would have trashed me. Even being in melee range of it (making sure to stay behind it) there were times where it did ridiculous amounts of damage to me. While I'm sure it would be much easier with a ranged toon, as a melee toon it kind of sucked. I died more times than I'd like to admit to trying to kill that stupid thing.
Overall, I think it was an excellent piece of content, but the final fight needs to be changed somewhat at least on normal, so that instead of feeling like a torturous endurance test, it's instead an enjoyable fight that is suitably challenging,
And note that the benefits conferred are tuned to be most advantageous to players who choose to skulk around instead of taking things on head on; I submit that most such players have less of an issue with using disguises than those who prefer the latter approach.
If you want a harder challenge, ramp up the dif. It's as simple as that.
See, I knew we could agree on something
Have you tested Resistance yet ? I think if you had you would not be in favor of this . At all . Concept builds and AT's will be robbed of the satisfaction of actually bringing one down , and if they try to up the difficulty , as it stands right now they will be shredded to pieces if they try it while soloing (which technically ap's are supposed to be) and if they are on a team with 2 or 3 other at's or other underperforming builds .
Right, because I so enjoy getting my face ground into the concrete repeatedly even on the easiest setting. Very satisfying indeed.
Yeah, I kind of have. I tanked two mega-Ds on elite at the same time while my partner completed objectives. It doesn't change the fact that doing it was annoying as hell and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Edit: I also had the DD bug during the endbringer fight, which ended up making the AP uncompletable so I haven't seen the ending. I tried to tank the Endbringer but that's kind of impossible, he kinda hits for 3k+ maintains or some crap, I think I got nuked for 60k base damage or something
The appeal of a very dangerous environment full of super hero hunting bad **** looking giant robots will be far less fun when people who can only run it on the normal difficulty setting neutralize that threat simply by running at that level of difficulty .
There has to be some sort of wiggle room . I think further reduction of overseer health , damage output , and summon ability by activating the charging consoles would work and would satisfy both camps .
We're talking about this only for the "Normal" difficulty... the easiest setting. Want to fight the MegaD? Kick it up to Difficult. I don't see what is so difficult to understand about that.
I just don't think that attaching "I win" buttons to the Overseers is the way to do it.
Edit: Oh, and which of the solo ATs were you planning on fine tuning the MegaD against? The Behemoth or the Disciple?
Ok now I'm confused . You don't see the areas in various posts where pretty much everyone agrees the overseers are way too tough on normal as things currently stand ? Okay to just to be clear :
1. Yes they are too strong on normal .
2. This is still undergoing testing , we want the overseers health , damage , and abilities , too be REDUCED to a point where defeating one is easier on NORMAL difficulty than it is now . ALOT EASIER .
3. I don't understand what fine tuning a build towards a Mega D is . That does not seem relevant . They are adventure pack critters , still in the testing phase . On normal , level 11+ , any player should be given the ability to fight one . Reducing it's current level of health , damage output , etc , by a significant amount on the next push to test might solve the scaling problem on a difficulty setting of normal .
I just don't see how flying to a console and activating it and destroying an overseer will provide the same amount of enjoyment as fighting and defeating what makes the mayhem stage what it is . Nerfing the overseers in the next push to test bigtime , and then trying again to see whether or not they are still too strong , seems to this customer like a better idea .
**just read dataweaver said it better in a shorter amount of text . agreed until the "skipping fighting them" part . They need nerfing , on normal , and soon .
I figured this would be the easiest part to understand. Let me rephrase the question: How much do you want to nerf it? There is a HUGE difference between what the Behemoth is able to take on solo and what the Disciple is able to take on solo.
Also , if this is what they are going to be like on normal , how on earth would one complete this ap on hard or elite w/out a 4-5 man team of optimized freeforms ?! Come on Robobo . SCALING DUDE ! IT'S WAY OUT OF WHACK FOR THE MAYHEM PORTION . NERF OVERSEERS !
K i'll try it later again and will bring a calculator and scratch paper .
In order for a Disciple to realistically solo a Mega-D, it'd have to be like, 5-10% of the Mega-D on normal. That's not fighting a Mega-D, and makes really no sense.
If it's been heavily damaged by use of the charging console , why does it not make sense ? While they are Mega-D's why cant they be significantly reduced in power ? These are not the Mega-D's in the open mission in Millenium City . These are reskinned adventure pack critters , and should be treated as such .
What makes no sense is to take one of the more intriguing and exciting enemies (albeit extremely frustrating to fight at the moment , something which can and should be totally changed ) out of the picture entirely by rendering them useless in the adventure pack on the normal difficulty setting .
If you guys really think that further nerfing somehow doesn't fit the theme because " That's not fighting a Mega-D " , then ok I give up .
I was sincerely hoping a middle ground could be reached , because while right now they are incredibly difficult , I anticipated that the scaling issues would be addressed at some point and destroying them after they had been damaged via console , while it should provide a challenge , would become a possibility for casual players .
If you reduce them to mere window dressing on the normal difficulty setting with an insta-kill option , you will be taking what could be a really fun feature out the game . In a game that is so starved for content , I'm begging you , please do not go down this road .
What do you think will happen if players decide they want to fight them ? They will have to up the difficulty setting to do so , making the Overseers even stronger . I implore you : watch the Resistance teaser trailer again . What in that video stands out the most ? To me , it's the Overseers . People are going to want to fight giant robots that are imprisoning super heroes .
Ok enough , you guys hash it out . One last time I will beg : Please nerf the bejeezus out of them , but don't make insta-kill an option . Please Robo , take another look at the scaling , and ask yourself if you think that playing the adventure pack on normal with the only interaction between the player and whatever the Overseer ends up being when you have implemented all your final decisions , IS THE CLICK OF A CONSOLE .
Best wishes .
Exactly... though I was thinking more like 1 or 2% Hardly what would classify as Mega-anything. The point is that nerfing a MegaD down to the point where it is trivial to defeat is very undramatic. I prefer the hazard of "If I let this thing wake up, it is going to stomp me flat." Creates more dramatic tension, knowing the very real threat this thing poses and knowing that if you don't get it shut down it is not going to be a good day.
I thought the only difference between Normal and Difficult was the team scaling in non-AP missions. In AP scaling there is no difference in Normal and Difficult since the AP scale with team size even on Normal.
edit: I can't test this . Haven't been able too for the last 2 days now . When I log in my characters still have resistance in their mission logs at various stages , but I cannot get back into the Harmon building . I have tried discarding the prisoners uniform , dropping the mission , and going back to defender to start over . He dosen't offer me the mission . New characters copied to pts are also unable to get the mission from defender . Is this a bug on my end ? If so what am I doing wrong ?
What if they have one or more healing powers ? One or more healing devices ? Are teamed with someone who can heal ? What if they figure out how to juggle aggro between themselves and the resistance fighters if they are soloing and have both heal powers , devices , c-store rez items , craftable rez items , etc etc etc ?
The answer is neither of us actually knows the answer to that , beacuse we can't put it to a test .
Why is The Resistance Elite going to be harder than an Elite run of SL or DF?
I have characters who can manage going into the other APs and knocking them out on Elite, but who can't manage to solo two Mega-D's at the same time. Yes, shame on me for not going totally optimal. So far I have been able to beat the Mega-D's not by killing them, but by tricking them via aggro and pathing related shenanigans long enough to get objectives done. (Which I am cool with, but might be considered borderline exploitative to others)
I also happen to agree with the idea that they shouldn't be killed right out with the push of a button, but rather you should be able to acquire tools to make them possible at all levels of play. We have the console for a Debuff, the resistance soldiers for back up. And because I like sounding like a broken record, how about an optional mini-mission to get the Grizz a tank or something in order to help out a bit? Or at least have it possibly make a diversion that can last long enough for you to click some glowies, or have the demo squad set the jet up for the bomb.
Edit: Yes I know that this would be just another disguise like the prisoner outfit, the guard uniform and even the megad, But unlike the prisoner and guard disguises this one would make sense for why you couldn't use your own powers. I never really understood how a guard or prisoner disguise prevented me from throwing lightning bolts at people...
And if that's the design philosophy that's being used, then I'm OK with the Mega-Ds only being defeatable using specialized Overseer-killer builds and/or large-scale teams. But that means that at no stage in the mission (*cough*Jet*cough*) should you be forced to fight the things: there should always be a way to bypass them, if you're careful and you know what you're doing; and that goes for Elite as well as Normal: if you fight them, it's either because you failed to bypass them or because you think you can take them, not because you have to fight them.
I'd favor the inclusion of optional mini-missions that let you acquire various Resistance supers (e.g., Poe; there are several listed in Conquerors' HQ as still being on the loose) who can then tank for you, holding the Overseers' aggro long enough for you to complete the mission objectives (the diversion Leatherhead spoke of).
**sidenote : Please can someone help me I cannot test Resistance atm . I cannot get back into the harmon building , with characters that have the mission at various stages or with ones just ported to the pts . Defender will not give me the mission . What am I doing wrong ?
Well I was thinking about giving the Grizz the tank, so you can go out and use your own powers and help to kill the mega-D, or go in yourself quickly and click the glowies without having to use another costume yourself. But Dataweavers alternate hero distraction would probably be easier to code.
Right now you have to use your powers in order to help the resistance (or unheroically send wave after wave of them to die by themselves if you aren't up to the bomb yet), and when you use your powers it triggers the mega-D, which causes the whole thing to nosedive if you don't happen to have a mega-D buster build. There is no true stealthy option or viable distraction other than the proposed instant kill switch. And I am not fond of that idea, as I find it kind of cheep at the low end and unfair to people who could otherwise complete the AP at higher difficulties.
the AP needs :
This isn't necessarily easier coding; but it does potentially put more MC shout-out characters into the fray, which IMHO is a good thing.