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Winza's Guide to PvP
Archived Post
Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
Before you read further, this isn't a list of PvP powers or build suggestions. This is a gathering of suggestions for etiquette, acceptable reactions and things you should/shouldn't do when in a match.
First and foremost, leave your pride and expectations at the door. I know you may have spent hours, day or even weeks making your character as tough or strong as you want him/her to be, but frankly, you WILL die at least once in PvP. There is no avoiding that at least one opponent will get lucky or simply be vastly more damaging then your defenses can withstand. It's unavoidable and you must be very willing to accept it. You are not the only player who has spent that much time on their character and still was defeated and you are not the last.
If you join a team PvP match on the losing side of a 14-0, use your last few moments to at least try to make the match 15-1 and attack the nearest target. Even if you fail, you will have given it your all and still gained credit for having participated in the match.
When you are playing BASH, just deal with the fact that there are people who build ONLY for PvP and they WILL be able to take down your medeval archer who specializes in quick, light attacks and can't travel any faster then a brisk walk. Roleplaying in PvP is acceptable as long as it's not taunts, insults or remarks that are against the EULA. You can compliment your opponents, though the hardcore may think it's sarcasm...
Zombie Apocalypse is possibly the only PvP I've ever encountered that wasn't VERY punishing for concept builds or PvE focused builds, even if you're on the zombie side. If you spawn as a Zombie, remember that they do not gain any score by defeating you and you do not lose any score. Your job as a zombie is to kill any one or more of them so that you are no longer alone. Even though you killed one of their pals, in ZA, they end up being more then happy to be a turncoat and will be back outside attacking their pals with you ASAP.
In Stronghold, it really doesn't matter if you are on the hero side or criminal side, your job is to fight PvE mobs while other players are trying to fight their's. Sure, at the time I am writing this, there is a bug involving a certain mob on one side, but it will be fixed since it is a known bug. If you fail and your side's NPCs are defeated, no worries, you still gain acclaim and exp for having participated.
One of the toughest things to overcome in PvP is our own expectations of our characters. On the plus side, most of the characters that are great in the BASH, aren't as good most of the time in Zombie Apocalypse since survivability against sustained damage is most important when you are a "survivor" and a good portion of BASH players build for max DPS so they can have higher scores. Also, those that are particularly good in either of those matches can be looked at as good tanks (survivors in ZA) or damage dealers (BASH) for when you are going to to run lairs for PvE.
All in all, simply let yourself PvP without hate or anger and just fight for the fun of it.
First and foremost, leave your pride and expectations at the door. I know you may have spent hours, day or even weeks making your character as tough or strong as you want him/her to be, but frankly, you WILL die at least once in PvP. There is no avoiding that at least one opponent will get lucky or simply be vastly more damaging then your defenses can withstand. It's unavoidable and you must be very willing to accept it. You are not the only player who has spent that much time on their character and still was defeated and you are not the last.
If you join a team PvP match on the losing side of a 14-0, use your last few moments to at least try to make the match 15-1 and attack the nearest target. Even if you fail, you will have given it your all and still gained credit for having participated in the match.
When you are playing BASH, just deal with the fact that there are people who build ONLY for PvP and they WILL be able to take down your medeval archer who specializes in quick, light attacks and can't travel any faster then a brisk walk. Roleplaying in PvP is acceptable as long as it's not taunts, insults or remarks that are against the EULA. You can compliment your opponents, though the hardcore may think it's sarcasm...
Zombie Apocalypse is possibly the only PvP I've ever encountered that wasn't VERY punishing for concept builds or PvE focused builds, even if you're on the zombie side. If you spawn as a Zombie, remember that they do not gain any score by defeating you and you do not lose any score. Your job as a zombie is to kill any one or more of them so that you are no longer alone. Even though you killed one of their pals, in ZA, they end up being more then happy to be a turncoat and will be back outside attacking their pals with you ASAP.
In Stronghold, it really doesn't matter if you are on the hero side or criminal side, your job is to fight PvE mobs while other players are trying to fight their's. Sure, at the time I am writing this, there is a bug involving a certain mob on one side, but it will be fixed since it is a known bug. If you fail and your side's NPCs are defeated, no worries, you still gain acclaim and exp for having participated.
One of the toughest things to overcome in PvP is our own expectations of our characters. On the plus side, most of the characters that are great in the BASH, aren't as good most of the time in Zombie Apocalypse since survivability against sustained damage is most important when you are a "survivor" and a good portion of BASH players build for max DPS so they can have higher scores. Also, those that are particularly good in either of those matches can be looked at as good tanks (survivors in ZA) or damage dealers (BASH) for when you are going to to run lairs for PvE.
All in all, simply let yourself PvP without hate or anger and just fight for the fun of it.
Post edited by Archived Post on
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Comments
Wonderfully and brilliantly put!
Your right!
Oh, StormShade is alive. Hey StormShade, I think you owe me a NemCon run.
EDIT: it appears after I posted that it got restickied but still why was it moved
Ummm wat? It got moved back again
....
*sigh*
(*shakes head*)
Unlikely
As a member of the PVE community [you can't pay me to pvp in any game more often that one in a smurf's exposed backside] one thing that will always irk the PVE community against the PVP community is you guys are the prime reason nerfs happen, not your fault but a lot of potential cool PVE powers or power possibilities are toast because, oh yea.. what about pvp?
Also PvP'r tend to be snobs, jerks and otherwise grief the PVE community, particularly role players. So lets not pretend its a one way street for the poor persecuted PVP community.
We're all Bozos on this bus
The devs have nerfed only two powers for pvp, both advantages:
Swallowtail cut - Adv to Scything Blade
Escape Artist - Adv to smoke grenade
Both only made an impact in pvp (although thesecond could exploit ai actually) because they were useless in pve. The rest of the nerfs are brought on by pvpers, because if you think about it we are the only people who play on the public test server save for a few strict pvers. And those nerfs are pve based cause its near impossible to get a pvp game running on test. Hence why pvp always gets broken more every patch.
That is really odd. I am a PVEer who has dabbled in PvP in CO. I have had a grand total of three incidents where I saw someone acting snobbish, rude, or otherwise like jerks in a match. Two were PvEers (you could tell by their builds), teh third was a devoted PvPer who was being shunned by the PvP community for his poor sportsmanship.
I have run into extremely obnoxious people in PvE fairly frequently during lair runs and the like. DOnt get me wrong, compared to some other games the community here is stellar, but counting the number of people I have interacted with here the PvE community has had a higher perrcentage of jerks than the PvP community by far.
In PvP matches when my build was subpar I experienced teammates, and opponents, who gave me advice on how to improve.
In PvE teams Ive seen people ridiculed for not doing as much damage, or not being as survivable, as other memebrs of the team.
The difference is that I will not attempt to say that because I have had bad experiences with PvEers that they, "tend to be snobs, jerks,,,"
Um, Bones
I don't see where FM was referring to CO "specifically"
I think his comment was more in the lines of MMO's in "general" :cool:
EDIT: Oh yeah, Good job Winza!
Good post.
And 1 thing: sorry if I sounded sarcastic all my compliments have been real.
Unfortunately, that part isn't true. And Cryptic should fix that. Bothering to enter the arena in that sort of situation actually needs to earn the player credit, yet it does not.
There's less hate when there is more fun. There is more fun when the experience is balanced so that even losers can feel good about participating, saying "Well, I tried my best." The PvP system just isn't built for that, especially at high tiers. Fix that, damp the power curves some, and you'll watch people get less angry.
I have tried to convert a few pure PvPers to RP...do you remember PMS Avenger? Well Aphy took her for her first drink in Caprice! I even promised to get Tearmonger in there... no luck so far though
So everyone can get along with a little effort
Spread the love!
T-T
Too shunned, way too shunned
"As a member of the PVE community" Implies CO
"you guys" Same sentence so still implying CO
"PVE powers or power possibilities" Rarely in other mmos (other than cox and co) do they call them powers, rather skills / abilities
~Belle~
Peace
It is very true that more people need to take it easy and be a bit more laid back. If someone wants to run around with a DPS build in ZA or just run around in circles during Arena, that is just the luck of the draw. Unless you're paying for their account, they can kinda do what they want. If all else fails, that is what the ignore button is for.
I have yet to run into anyone elitist or snobby on either end in CO. Win or lose, it is all fun and games. And for the ones who are... well, when they get old enough to get a job and pay for the game on their own, they should mature a bit, lol.
Oh and don't forget the teleport cooldown add on. ~shrug~ What?
I'm new to this game, being a CoV veteran of 4 years i loved both PVP and PVE, but, i havn't got as far in this game to compete in PvP (well i don't think i have anyway), the one thing that i have found is that when i go around playing the missions i get hasstled all the time to Dual, i click no and i get another one, and another etc.
I'm not saying this person is a dedicated PvP'er but some people should just learn that no means no and that some people don't want to play that part in the game yet, i'm currently going through the character's to see which one i like best and i have no doubt that i will find a build i like for PvP and join events of that nature, but, untill then stop dropping the rocket on me lol
I think there is a /whitelist command for duels but not sure. It hasn't been enough of a problem for me to research.
FYI, if you stand around the center of the RenCen for any length of time you're going to get a bunch of duel invites, since it's duel-central. Not that I disagree with your point.
In team PVP, take a minute to hit the + key before the match is about to start if you see that your side has 3 to thier 1 or 2 etc then tell your team mates your going to hold backa min till things even up.
If you step into a lost cause dont stay to keep it going get out asap, and tell your team mates to do the same. because you shouldnt reward the other sides farming behavior EVER!
Try offering some one on one in imabalanced team match ups. In BASH this is silly and pointless as if you only got 3 or 4 bodies in it the BASH is already over becuase it will be utterly dull.
In BASH do not try to call out folks to one on one. Alot of BASH players play it for the fast hit and run chaos of it. In AT BASH a blade for example is not even remotely interested in trying to fight a behemoth or devastator one on one while some inferno or glacier is floating around. Talking trash to players for what is probably the smartest and most practical way to approach any combat situation is a fast ticket to ignore lists. If you just want to duel than do that.
Dont Bring heal other powers to Team PVP. even in a team match most are there to feel like they are testing themselves against anothers individual powers. Support powers in PVP devalue that experiance fast. Its well known for example in GW random arena the side that gets a healing monk is the most likely to win simply due to the advnatage of healing support.
2 blades vs 2 behemoths for example it may well go to either side depending on which has better team work. swap out one on either side with a good healer and almost no chance the other side can wear em down through the healing before being beat down.
RP vs. PVP animosity. This is truly sad to see in any game as they should be alot more on the same side then they seem to ever be. Good RP concept builds, that take into account the basic tools NEEDED for PVP like crippling challenge and nailed to the ground can be immensly fun to fight against with other such characters.
I think perhaps people in the RP community should consider trying to hold RP PVP matches to explore that fun before utterly forsaking it.
As a full time Lore RPer on CoXs Virtue server I truly do love RP, but have also been since COs launch a loud advocate for PVP becoming the games major focus for development as I feel it could be equal to GW in that respect if it strived to.
Totally misses why people get mad. It's not losing once, it's going in ZA and dying fifteen times because you are 7 to 1, or going in BASH and not being able to react because of chain holds and knocks. The game has changed since he wrote this, and while its better in some ways, the "not being able to do anything" aspect has gotten worse.
A real suggestion is that its better to leave if you get annoyed to that level than continue to participate.
You get no acclaim with no kills. You get perk credit for being in the match, but you might as well leave or stay at your leisure. Half the time before you even can get in the match will be done. This mattered in the old days when people could stalemate pvp matches and deny the other side experience. Now its moot.
This has widened to mean any build in general. I'll be blunt, if you are not PVP specced, expect to get frustrated in any mode except ZA. PvP spec now means chain holds, knocks, some insane stacked defenses, and high spike damage.
As someone who has done the negative side of the above, best thing is again, to leave.
Winza has no idea wtf he is talking about. If you get killed as a hero, you lose a flat percentage of your exp and acclaim gain. I'm not sure, but it might be as high as half. If you can't kill a single human player as zombie, you get no exp at all, and even if you do, it's a fraction of the total a player can get.
This is why people log out to reconnect as heroes, either if they start as a zombie or die as a player.
Etiquette. If you die as a player, please just stay dead and fight as a zombie. It's frustrating as hell for the zombie player, and if you abuse logout, it's just bad. keep in mind that the zombie has to fight six or more players with no buffs and little support. It's better for them now since this was written, but it still can be hard for them.
Zombie players, again, it's better to leave than to get annoyed. I keep repeating this, but good sportsmanship only goes so far to counter the uphill battle and lack of rewards. Even just taking a quick afk after getting repeatedly killed can help.
Again, this depends on your kill count and time played. If you get roflstomped, you get nothing. I've gotten zero acclaim, or as low as 70 at level 40.
There's less specific to SH to get annoyed at, but again, if it looks bad, take a brief break afk or just leave the match. I say this from experience-there's very little overall reward for sticking it out if it's the kind of match that causes bad behavior-getting farmed, one-sided match, etc. You get little acclaim, exp, and dont have fun.
Actually this isn't true anymore.
A decent pvp spec can easily survive both ZA or BASH, even with a DD build The DD build just camps the single zombie player, and most DD builds now can absorb a lot of damage innately. They wont reach supertank levels, but back when he wrote this, it wasn't as easy to make an omnitank, and certain powersets like MA weren't as predominant. Nor certain powers.
I think this is simplistic. there are different attitudes to have:
1. Embrace PvP fully, making toons specced for it and knowing that even then there are flaws.
2. Don't spec for it, but expect the occasional getting farmed/frustrated, etc. Continue to play because it's better than running TT again.
3. Get annoyed at the imbalances, realize its not worth getting angry/hating people over, and stop playing, either short or long term.
4. Troll PvPers.
I think we agree not to do 4. However tempting it is.
Although these iinventions cost a lot of power, as long as I use a strong power gaining ability I will still be able to regain enough power for the stuff I need.
I've spent into intelligence and recovery and now it's a piece of cake in pvp! All I have to do is start shielding when someone attacks me and hope that they don't kill me, run or start meleeing with a chainsaw.
Oh well, I hope that you can get something out of this review!