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Curious if there is interest
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All right, I've got an idea for a heavy RolePlay SG and before I get ahead of myself I want to see if there's even any interest out there for a group like this. Keep in mind this is just a idea at the moment, there's no promise I'll actually do this, but I wanted to see if there's any interest in such a thing.
Now ,without further adieu, let me introduce:
The Wardens!
How many Super Groups do we see who are Based off the Justice League/Teen Titans/Avengers/Legion of Super Heroes and how many of them would you honestly say truly manage to create and maintain that feeling?
They're out there, but they're few and far between. My idea takes this notion and pulls it off in a different direction.
This plan wouldn't be to simply invoke the basic idea of the JLA or the Avengers, but to truly create that team in our own fashion! Yes, folks, I'm talking about creating homages.
Let me pause here to elaborate on the difference between a homage and a knock-off. When you see the Tim Burton version of Batman running around CO, a toon all in black leather with a big black and yellow wing symbol on his chest and the name of B-man ? That's a knock-off. It's the same as the action figure from Korea with the crazy weird packaging where the Joker has orange hair and green lips and Batman's wearing purple and black and is named "battaman." We all know who it is, and we can't help but laugh at the absurdity of it's failure to evoke the true feel of the character.
An homage, on the other hand, is someone who stands on their own; someone who's clearly influenced and modeled after such a character but isn't a complete knock off. Nite Owl of the Watchmen is a gearhead and a thinker, The Blue Beetle, Batman, and in some respects Nightwing since he's also the second to carry the title of Nite Owl.
The Comedian's practically an analogue for every gun-loving anti-hero out there. Inspired by the peacemaker, and comparable to both the Punisher and Nick Fury in many ways.
And of course, Rorschach is the Question.
We can see all the influences these characters are modeled after, but despite being homages to long standing famous heroes they're still all unique characters in their own right.
This is the sort of feeling you would be aiming for if this idea gets off the ground.
So the premise is Homage Characters in a Homage Group.
So what's the catch?
The catch is we don't want to create The Army of 1 Million Supermen we want the Avengers/Justice League. As such, there would be a limit to how many homages of one character would be allowed.
The first thing we'd be looking for is to fill the primary archetypes.
(examples below)
The Pillar of Justice (Superman, Capt. America)
The Amazing Woman (Wonder Woman, Ms. Marvel)
The Strategist (Batman, Capt. America )
The Everyman ( Green Arrow, Wildcat )
The Optimistic Hero (Flash, Spider-man)
The Strange Visitor (Martian Manhunter)
The Master of Magic (Zatanna, Dr. Fate, Dr. Strange)
The Mythic Defender (Thor, Aquaman, Wonder Woman)
The Galactic Guardian (Green Lantern )
There are many other Archetypes to fill but almost every major hero group has a character that fits one of the aforementioned types so it would be great to have at least one of each type, preferably from players who could be active on a regular basis.
The beauty of these archetypes is that many of these characters can fit into more than one archetype, so just because we've got plenty of moral pillars doesn't mean your Capt. America homage wouldn't fit in.
What about Restrictions/Requirements?
This is where I usually lost people the last time, but I'm going to stand by these because I found without them the SG just doesn't hold together
1. You must have knowledge of the character you're a homage to.
You want to homage Namor? Then you better know facts about him.
Want to homage Wonder Woman? You better know what you're doing.
To confirm you are making a homage to a character you actually know about you'll be tasked to give a short compare and contrast between your character's personality and powers, and the personality and powers of the character you are an homage to.
I'm not a expert on comic books, I can't tell you the issue number for the Batman comic when Bane Broke the Bat; I am however a however an expert on comic books characters; and if I don't know the character I will happily spend hours upon hours reading every source I can about the character in order to broaden my own knowledge and to make sure you've got it right when you submit your character application.
2. You must be able to write.
I'm sorry folks, I know we're not all masters of the written word, and typos are all well and good; heaven knows I've made tons right here in this post, but if you can't even post a coherent paragraph of thoughts then you're not ready to be taking on the task of portraying a well thought-out, well played homage character.
3. You must be active.
It's fine you're not on every day. Heck, it's fine if you're not on every other day; but if you go a week or more without even clocking an hour or two of game play on CO then there's no real reason for you to be here. A guild like this can't survive without active participants.
Now, for those who may still be having trouble with the concept below are a few of the original Wardens of Paragon from City of Heroes, and the archetypes they filled.
The Divine Prophet During an exploration in the Sol System, an alien vessel crash landed on earth after being attacked by hostile forces. Her parents died upon impact, but young Jasmine barely survived. Rescued by the Rainer family Jasmine was raised like any normal human would be, in spite of her blue skin and purple hair.
Though she was different, and sometimes treated as an outcast, Jasmine persevered, mastering her telepathic and telekinetic capabilities, eventually donning cape and costume as The Divine Prophet, one of the world's most talented Psychics.
(The Strange Visitor Martian Manhunter with a little Superman spin to the back story.)
Liberty Vanguard Lt. Chase Wilder of the U.S. Air Force was one of the finest test pilots the USAF had. A master aviator, raised by the controls of a plain from his child hood days helping his father as a crop duster, Chase was born to fly. Tragically, a malfunction during a test flight left Chase paralyzed from the neck down.
Devastated, robbed of all his independence, Chase became despondent and withdrawn, till fortune turned in his favor when an experimental medical procedure's director came to him to see if he'd be willing to be their first human test subject. With nothing to lose Chase willingly volunteered. The test was a spectacular failure; rather than simply restoring his broken body the procedure gave him power beyond human comprehension, infused with raw energy that granted him strength, speed, and even flight, Chase returned to the service of the U.S. Military as Liberty Vanguard; patriotic hero and defender of the American dream!
(Moral Pillar Capt. America with some Superman undertones.)
Shadow Falcon Jason Knight, heir to the famous Knight Industries fortune, was your typical pampered young man of wealth and privilege. The billions brought in by the weapons R & D at Knight Industries ensured he never wanted for anything... Until his parents were amongst the unfortunate civilians caught in a drive-by shooting.
Horrified by what had happened to his parents, and disgusted by such use of lethal weapons, Jason shut down the weapons department of Knight Industries, reassigning the employees to more safe and helpful scientific pursuits interested in the betterment of humanity.
In kind, Jason dedicated himself to the same pursuit, honing his body and mind and commandeering the remaining weapons technology left over from the shut down R & D center Jason Knight became a silent guardian of the worlds weakest and most innocent, putting his time, wealth and resources into stopping gangland fighting, stomping out crime in the cities lowliest and most desperate areas.
(The Strategist, mix of Batman & Iron Man )
That's the idea laid out as plain as I can make it; the balls in CORP's court; is anyone out there interested in this sort of thing?
Now ,without further adieu, let me introduce:
The Wardens!
How many Super Groups do we see who are Based off the Justice League/Teen Titans/Avengers/Legion of Super Heroes and how many of them would you honestly say truly manage to create and maintain that feeling?
They're out there, but they're few and far between. My idea takes this notion and pulls it off in a different direction.
This plan wouldn't be to simply invoke the basic idea of the JLA or the Avengers, but to truly create that team in our own fashion! Yes, folks, I'm talking about creating homages.
Let me pause here to elaborate on the difference between a homage and a knock-off. When you see the Tim Burton version of Batman running around CO, a toon all in black leather with a big black and yellow wing symbol on his chest and the name of B-man ? That's a knock-off. It's the same as the action figure from Korea with the crazy weird packaging where the Joker has orange hair and green lips and Batman's wearing purple and black and is named "battaman." We all know who it is, and we can't help but laugh at the absurdity of it's failure to evoke the true feel of the character.
An homage, on the other hand, is someone who stands on their own; someone who's clearly influenced and modeled after such a character but isn't a complete knock off. Nite Owl of the Watchmen is a gearhead and a thinker, The Blue Beetle, Batman, and in some respects Nightwing since he's also the second to carry the title of Nite Owl.
The Comedian's practically an analogue for every gun-loving anti-hero out there. Inspired by the peacemaker, and comparable to both the Punisher and Nick Fury in many ways.
And of course, Rorschach is the Question.
We can see all the influences these characters are modeled after, but despite being homages to long standing famous heroes they're still all unique characters in their own right.
This is the sort of feeling you would be aiming for if this idea gets off the ground.
So the premise is Homage Characters in a Homage Group.
So what's the catch?
The catch is we don't want to create The Army of 1 Million Supermen we want the Avengers/Justice League. As such, there would be a limit to how many homages of one character would be allowed.
The first thing we'd be looking for is to fill the primary archetypes.
(examples below)
The Pillar of Justice (Superman, Capt. America)
The Amazing Woman (Wonder Woman, Ms. Marvel)
The Strategist (Batman, Capt. America )
The Everyman ( Green Arrow, Wildcat )
The Optimistic Hero (Flash, Spider-man)
The Strange Visitor (Martian Manhunter)
The Master of Magic (Zatanna, Dr. Fate, Dr. Strange)
The Mythic Defender (Thor, Aquaman, Wonder Woman)
The Galactic Guardian (Green Lantern )
There are many other Archetypes to fill but almost every major hero group has a character that fits one of the aforementioned types so it would be great to have at least one of each type, preferably from players who could be active on a regular basis.
The beauty of these archetypes is that many of these characters can fit into more than one archetype, so just because we've got plenty of moral pillars doesn't mean your Capt. America homage wouldn't fit in.
What about Restrictions/Requirements?
This is where I usually lost people the last time, but I'm going to stand by these because I found without them the SG just doesn't hold together
1. You must have knowledge of the character you're a homage to.
You want to homage Namor? Then you better know facts about him.
Want to homage Wonder Woman? You better know what you're doing.
To confirm you are making a homage to a character you actually know about you'll be tasked to give a short compare and contrast between your character's personality and powers, and the personality and powers of the character you are an homage to.
I'm not a expert on comic books, I can't tell you the issue number for the Batman comic when Bane Broke the Bat; I am however a however an expert on comic books characters; and if I don't know the character I will happily spend hours upon hours reading every source I can about the character in order to broaden my own knowledge and to make sure you've got it right when you submit your character application.
2. You must be able to write.
I'm sorry folks, I know we're not all masters of the written word, and typos are all well and good; heaven knows I've made tons right here in this post, but if you can't even post a coherent paragraph of thoughts then you're not ready to be taking on the task of portraying a well thought-out, well played homage character.
3. You must be active.
It's fine you're not on every day. Heck, it's fine if you're not on every other day; but if you go a week or more without even clocking an hour or two of game play on CO then there's no real reason for you to be here. A guild like this can't survive without active participants.
Now, for those who may still be having trouble with the concept below are a few of the original Wardens of Paragon from City of Heroes, and the archetypes they filled.
The Divine Prophet During an exploration in the Sol System, an alien vessel crash landed on earth after being attacked by hostile forces. Her parents died upon impact, but young Jasmine barely survived. Rescued by the Rainer family Jasmine was raised like any normal human would be, in spite of her blue skin and purple hair.
Though she was different, and sometimes treated as an outcast, Jasmine persevered, mastering her telepathic and telekinetic capabilities, eventually donning cape and costume as The Divine Prophet, one of the world's most talented Psychics.
(The Strange Visitor Martian Manhunter with a little Superman spin to the back story.)
Liberty Vanguard Lt. Chase Wilder of the U.S. Air Force was one of the finest test pilots the USAF had. A master aviator, raised by the controls of a plain from his child hood days helping his father as a crop duster, Chase was born to fly. Tragically, a malfunction during a test flight left Chase paralyzed from the neck down.
Devastated, robbed of all his independence, Chase became despondent and withdrawn, till fortune turned in his favor when an experimental medical procedure's director came to him to see if he'd be willing to be their first human test subject. With nothing to lose Chase willingly volunteered. The test was a spectacular failure; rather than simply restoring his broken body the procedure gave him power beyond human comprehension, infused with raw energy that granted him strength, speed, and even flight, Chase returned to the service of the U.S. Military as Liberty Vanguard; patriotic hero and defender of the American dream!
(Moral Pillar Capt. America with some Superman undertones.)
Shadow Falcon Jason Knight, heir to the famous Knight Industries fortune, was your typical pampered young man of wealth and privilege. The billions brought in by the weapons R & D at Knight Industries ensured he never wanted for anything... Until his parents were amongst the unfortunate civilians caught in a drive-by shooting.
Horrified by what had happened to his parents, and disgusted by such use of lethal weapons, Jason shut down the weapons department of Knight Industries, reassigning the employees to more safe and helpful scientific pursuits interested in the betterment of humanity.
In kind, Jason dedicated himself to the same pursuit, honing his body and mind and commandeering the remaining weapons technology left over from the shut down R & D center Jason Knight became a silent guardian of the worlds weakest and most innocent, putting his time, wealth and resources into stopping gangland fighting, stomping out crime in the cities lowliest and most desperate areas.
(The Strategist, mix of Batman & Iron Man )
That's the idea laid out as plain as I can make it; the balls in CORP's court; is anyone out there interested in this sort of thing?
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Alias: Mamba
Identity: Taurence Mathers
Powers: Snake flexibility (acrobatics), Snake sight (fictional, kinda like infrared), Self taught use with katana (single blade), and pistols (munitions).
Background: This is kinda what i need help with, have no idea how to explain why he is like a snake/human hybrid.
Personality: Ashamed of his appearance Taurence has cut off communication with all past friends and family. He spent years trying to find away to reverse what he calls his "condition". He decided to use his abilities to fight crime hoping to find a Super who had might be able to reverse the change. He is desperate when it comes to finding a cure. He fights at night when the risk of someone seeing what he is, is decreased. He doesn't kill. Using his unique self taught fighting style using a katana and his pistols he fights to incapacitate and restrain. A brilliant man he knows how to use his surroundings to his advantage. He is gruff with those that take life for granted, he has no time for heroes that jump into the fight with no thought for the safety of the team or the people they are supposed to be saving.
yeah this is pretty much all i have right now he's kind of a homage to Batman, Deadpool, Wolverine, and Nightcrawler...yup all in one.
So any thoughts on how to flesh him out a bit more to fit in to your group?
And keep in mind folks, just because we have one Optimistic Hero doesn't mean we can't have more; we just don't want to have TOO MANY of one type, but we can still have a few. After all the Batman's got his little cadre, Superman's got Supergirl, Powergirl, Superboy; There are now more Flashes than I can keep up with anymore..
Bigg_E; I really like that idea. To me he sounds actually like a cross between Nightcrawler and the Hulk than anything else. An intelligent, critical thinking man who sees himself as a monster, viewing his abilities as a curse rather than a gift. Very neat idea; could easily fit into the
"Misunderstood Hero" archetype where you'd find the lieks of Kurt, Hulk, The Thing, etc.
bye the way i've been wondering what char would you bring to your group?
I've got multiple homage chars. I've always felt one of the most rewarding and challenging things to do in games like CoH and CO was to make a character who's clearly a homage but still manages to remain unique.
That said, my most likely candidate is Votum Justitia, a woman who pledged her soul to the the greek goddess of Justice in ancient Greece, but who found herself transported to modern times by the trickery of a magician she underestimated.
Votum is a homage to Wonder Woman.
The other consideration I've had is Olympia; a woman who disguised herself as a male just to compete in the Olympic games. She won every competition she was in, but in ancient Greece a woman competing in the games was considered blasphemous; the other competitors and the audience wanted her hung, but her determination impressed a few of the gods and amused others, so they intervened on her behalf.
After this she went on quite a few crazy adventures, met a crafty sorceress who enjoyed hopping through time, and soon found herself in the modern world amused and fascinated by it's amenities and it's problems!
Olympia's appearance is similar to Darwyn Cooke's version of Wonder Woman, but in personality and actions she's mostly a tip of the hat to Aquaman from Batman: The Brave and the Bold.
She's a dedicated warrior of justice, but more than a little full of herself, like most of the classic Greek heroes.
Oh.. and yes, as you can guess, I do adore mythology.
by the way this is Mamba
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Hah, what the characters didn't give it away?
My favorite is Greek mythos, though like you I also adore the celtic myths.
As for time zone, I'm on Central time; though as it's looking right now I've got only 6 confirmed interested people so I just don't think it's going to happen. Still if you ever just want to RP feel free to look me up, my game handle is @Chiroptera
We'll see.
As far as my character goes, I guess I'd see him as filling the Everyman role, if that's still available. The character's a martial artist (mostly unarmed), and closer in origin to Iron Fist than Green Arrow, but I don't think I should have any problem with the RP aspect of the role. He still considers himself "old Detroit" (though he was pretty young when there was, well, still a Detroit) and has that sort of looking out for the common guy, working-class attitude.
Anyways, like I said, let me know what the next step is, if this might still be a go. Also, don't get too disheartened by a lack of initial replies. Often, these things go better when an actual, in-game group has been around awhile ...
The Archetypes are not Positions or Ranks to be filled! They're guidelines, they're a characters backboard of basic tenants and ideas. We don't want a guild that's nothing but Everymen, Strategists, or Moral Pillars, but we don't have to limit ourselves to having only one of each. Whatever idea you have just run with it!
Now, a friend of mine on another forums, who will remain anonymous unless he wishes to be identified, recommended something I actually am inclined to agree with; that is (at the start anyway) that you should pick only a single character should be picked to homage.
Rather than being "Kinda like Batman, Kinda like Daredevil and Kinda like Moon Knight" we need to be able to state an immediate character.
Going back to those examples I gave previously I said Liberty Vanguard had some Superman like powers; but it's still instantly obvious his real homage is to Captain America.
Shadow Falcons instantly recognizable as being a Batman homage; yeah there's a little of Tony Stark in him, but you know he's really a Batman homage, not an Iron Man one.
There needs to be an instant recognizable similarity so that when your Warden is seen by someone else acting in character they will immediately be able to go "Oh wow, he's like <specific known super hero>."
A Praying Mantis based Super Hero thatshoots fire and (probably) wields two swords?
I know it sort of violates your last post, but it will be a Spider-Man/sorta Deadpool homage; IE an smart mouthed optimist.
Would that be okay?
I'm not saying you can't have the influence of other heroes, just that it's a lot more straight forward and closer to the intended goal if you've got one specific hero you're specifically focusing on paying tribute to.
For an example of what I'm wanting to AVOID; if there was someone called something like "Screaming Eagle" whose intended homage is Batman, and how has a back story and personality similar to him, but who had a bunch of super powers like Superman then it would be a sort of conflict of character.
You can't be an incredible "Be all that you can be" normal person while also being a true super human hero.
Once the Holidays are over I plan to write up an actual application, as well as some SG rules and requirements, then I'll see about actually getting this thing going.
http://champions-online.com/character_profiles/1769066/view i think i have to get a name change though sovereign seems to be over done
Hey now, Mamba still works nicely in my opinion; as I said before it's quickly and readily apparent to me that he draws most of his character inspiration for Night Crawler.
Having a little Batman/Hulk flavor to him doesn't hurt anything it just makes him different enough to be enjoyable; the primary homage is still easy to see.
Although, if you just WANT to make a different character that's fine.
Regrettably I have come to realize that I just don't have the free time to put into an undertaking of this size right now. I have too much going on in my life to be trying to run an SG as well. My father's recently passed away, leaving a lot of family things that fall to me to resolve as the only child in the family, I'm still trying to get myself applied for a four year school, I'm job hunting, and I'm working on a novel that I hope to see published by 2011.
This is a lovely idea and I'm glad to see there's interest in it, but I just can't justify devoting time to it in a video game world when I have so much that needs doing in real life right now.
Besides, it would be an extreme disservice to you fine folks for me to pull you altogether then not show up to help keep the darn thing going. I never know when I'll have the time, or the desire, to play CO. I'm just not on often enough to be trying to run an SG right now.
Hopefully as more content becomes available I'll become more invested and interested in CO as a good thing to spend my free time on, but as is right now I just don't have that investment or that desire.
When, and if, I do have the desire and the time I will return and see about actually getting this group up and running.
I'm sure there are a few disappointed people reading this right now and to you I offer my apologies and my best wishes that you find an equally enjoyable experience in a stronger established and steadier SG out there in the game world.
Wow, well if you're feeling that strongly about it I suppose it is worth giving a shot... If I can have people helping me I'm willing to try it.
I'd just need everyone to know that, while I would be as supportive as possible of the guild, I wouldn't be able to be a one man support team. Everyone would have to be willing to pitch in and help keep this thing afloat together.
I'll start work on the rules, regs, and application now. I may not have it ready till after Christmas day but I'll keep everyone here informed!
Additionally, everyone who is interested, please REPLY TO THIS POST.
I want to know who's truly interested and has continued to read this topic through out it's writing. Please PM me with your Global handle so I can contact you in game once we're getting the group up and running.
In answer to this, allow me to present the character I'll be founding the SG with: Votum Justitia.
She is a homage to Wonder Woman, something that's fairly easy for any WW fan to pick up on, whether they're a fan of the old TV show or an avid modern day comic reader. The character herself, however, is still a unique individual who doesn't hold any direct obvious connection to Wonder Woman.