Interesting post from AP... what they say vs. what they do...

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Post #7 in this thread: http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=73201

Antiproton wrote:

Nope, we're most definitely not only looking at datamined information. We rely heavily on /bug reports, forum posts, and feedback to our customer service, in addition to our own play experiences and internal discussion. And there are a bunch more folks than Jack here at Cryptic who were around for the CoX days.

If they are listening to forum posts and actually playing the game(in order to have play experience) then I am completely at a loss to explain what has been happening with crafting. Not only that, but the only response we ever get is that this is working as intended. He says they listen to our forum posts, but they(AP or any other cryptic people) do not respond to our forum posts in any significant way, and their actions certainly do not indicate that they are taking us into account.

Granted the people who post here may be a relatively small portion of the population, but we are the people that are called on to answer questions, put together information and documentation(since cryptic hasn't put out anything of their own), educate the populace, and represent the populace.

I am completely baffled...

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As a player the problems with crafting are at the very bottom of things that need changing to keep me playing. The skills are insanely easy to level with researching alone, I keep my skill levels maxed or as close as possible on every character. They do need to tune it but its no where near as important as fixing bugs adding content and power scaling at this point.

I say this as a my opinion of the greater good for the game overall, if crafting skills are really that important to you, I apologize.

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Fornahn wrote:

As a player the problems with crafting are at the very bottom of things that need changing to keep me playing. The skills are insanely easy to level with researching alone, I keep my skill levels maxed or as close as possible on every character. They do need to tune it but its no where near as important as fixing bugs adding content and power scaling at this point.

I say this as a my opinion of the greater good for the game overall, if crafting skills are really that important to you, I apologize.

The problem isn't leveling it... leveling it is fine.. the problem is that except for the consumables crafting is completely useless right now... Try reading through the forum a bit... see what people are saying... I have 3x 400 crafters(between 2 accounts), and a bunch of 200 or 300 ones(haven't hit the level they can update it again). Apart from consumables there is absolutely no reason to craft any more... The only reason I am leveling them is just in case they actually make it worth using again.

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And btw... power scaling IS ABOUT CRAFTING. its about the stats we have available to us on our gear, at least in part.

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What happened with crafting was a major bug was fixed a few weeks ago, other than that it is unchanged.

Crafting is not meant to be a replace-all for every character, it is meant to be complementary to the Mission and Lair Boss rewards. Mission Upgrades are a diffuse cloud of values, Crafting gives three more tightly focused paths in that same space.

Consumables and bags are the generically useful bits of crafting that anybody can benefit from. Devices are the next part of that space, being generally useful, but limited to the crafter so far, and then there are the Upgrades which are situational. If you have picked stats and a crafting school that pair well, you can make random drops into stuff specifcally useful to you. If you want to redo all your Upgrades for RP purposes, you can.

I absolutely read posts in here, and respond to posts in here, and take it into account.

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I'm kinda baffled that you'd act as if the devs responses to us here on the forum has been bad, it's some of the best communication I've seen in a MMO.

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btm wrote:

I'm kinda baffled that you'd act as if the devs responses to us here on the forum has been bad, it's some of the best communication I've seen in a MMO.

Yes and no... I've played in quite a few MMOs where the devs didn't respond on the forums or to the players at all, so this is definitely a step up...

On the other hand, most of what I am hearing players say about crafting on the boards and in the game is that it is completely useless right now, and I am not seeing any response to that at all... And no response to any of the posts on the forums about that, except to say that everything is working as intended.

Antiproton wrote:

What happened with crafting was a major bug was fixed a few weeks ago, other than that it is unchanged.

Crafting is not meant to be a replace-all for every character, it is meant to be complementary to the Mission and Lair Boss rewards. Mission Upgrades are a diffuse cloud of values, Crafting gives three more tightly focused paths in that same space.

Consumables and bags are the generically useful bits of crafting that anybody can benefit from. Devices are the next part of that space, being generally useful, but limited to the crafter so far, and then there are the Upgrades which are situational. If you have picked stats and a crafting school that pair well, you can make random drops into stuff specifcally useful to you. If you want to redo all your Upgrades for RP purposes, you can.

I absolutely read posts in here, and respond to posts in here, and take it into account.

I agree, consumables, bags, and devices are useful.

With the drop rate now and the fact that I can find items that are better than or equivalent to equivalent items from crafting, there is no point in crafting.

Crafting is not meant to be a replace-all for every char, it is meant to complement your mission rewards and fill in the gaps in your gear. Right now there is so little customization offered, and the gear that IS offered is so substandard, that there is NO point in crafting other than to make consumables or to unlock costums pieces.

I understand that you have a vision of where this should be going, I've asked many times(this is the first time I've actually gotten a response though), and I am asking again...

"I just want AP to come right out and give us a clear answer as to what purpose crafting serves in the game right now, since average drops give me equal or better stats than the yellows and greens I can make, and often at lower levels."

I did not see a response to my question in what AP said. The only time I craft at all any more is when a new character needs bags, or when I have too many materials and don't want to sell on the auction house.

Part of the problem is that this game pushes you into quests that are higher level than you a lot of the time, and since you can equip those rewards, those are better than the equivalent level crafted items.

Part of the problem is that anything I might make for myself, I not only can get as a drop, I probably already have it...

There is no incentive to craft or to use crafted items.


The changes that were made(the bug fixes) forced us to splash to different stats. I agree with this, expecially since it no longer penalizes your damage now to splash end if you aren't superstatted in end, for example.

There has got to be a way to make the crafting useful while keeping it in-line with the intended stat distribution(in terms of total stats per item). Right now it has one of the two right.. Apparently it is in line with the intended stat distribution... is it useful? not so much...

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Mors-Subita wrote:

I am completely baffled...

I can fix that for you.

A lot of us think crafting is fine the way it is (at least in this respect, there's still plenty of other issues with it, like the general suckyness of power replacers). You cannot judge very much by just looking at the small subset of forum posters who are crying.

And really, if they fix a bug that made something hugely overpowered, and your response is just "WAAAH", then you aren't telling them anything they don't already know. I hope you don't expect them to do anything about such responses.

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Miiru wrote:

I can fix that for you.

A lot of us think crafting is fine the way it is (at least in this respect, there's still plenty of other issues with it, like the general suckyness of power replacers). You cannot judge very much by just looking at the small subset of forum posters who are crying.

And really, if they fix a bug that made something hugely overpowered, and your response is just "WAAAH", then you aren't telling them anything they don't already know. I hope you don't expect them to do anything about such responses.

My response isn't "WAAAH" as you put it.

If you really want to read my response, then do it... its right here.
http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=73311

And I understand it will probably never happen, though I can dream, since this would allow them to maintain their stat distribution, give people incentive to add more stats onto each item instead of specializing on just one, and STILL give the full level of customization.

I also am not judging it just by what I see on the forums. I get a lot of people who message me in game, or who talk in zone or LFG, or who send me PMs. You are right, its probably a small subset of their total subscriber base... But I am not hearing anything from the other side...

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Mors-Subita wrote:

But I am not hearing anything from the other side...

We usually just sigh and go do something more fun than talking to you.

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So I have a Darkness toon Con/End was Science the wrong choice? I notice there are no power replaces for me until 390....not that it really matters as it seems all the power replace things are a waste of time.

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Monsterguy wrote:

So I have a Darkness toon Con/End was Science the wrong choice? I notice there are no power replaces for me until 390....not that it really matters as it seems all the power replace things are a waste of time.

Arms gives a better mix of Con/End enhancements, but frankly, I don't think it matters much. Barring horrible luck, the world-drops, both random and quest related, offer gear as good as or better than you can make with Crafting at present.

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Just to add my tuppeneth, I go my first 40 last week, during her lifetime I crafted 2-3 items of equipment that I actually used, and generally they lasted for less than a level. This was before the crafting options were locked down...

That doesn't sound right to me, but maybe thats just me