Some of my Blue Prints req Components I don't have access to anymore.

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Some of my Blue Prints required Components I don't have access to anymore. Am I missing something? In particular Botano Serum and Goodman Precept components just to name a few. I do not receive these items anymore at lv400 Sci-Exposure. And on a whole, I also do not receive enough components to make items for my self much less for anyone else in my super group. How is this a feasible or sustainable crafting system? Who made this system? Why is it so bad? Help?

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Uh... go to lower level areas and harvest materials? Kill lower level mobs and research their drops for the materials you need? Buy them on the auction house? Buy lower level items on the auction house and research them? There's a bunch of different ways for you to get these components.

Also, I find that I get WAY more than the necessary amount of components to craft anything I'd ever want. My entire bank is basically full with tier 4 crafting materials. Are you researching all the gear of your skill that you come across?

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Uh ... No, why would i go to lower level zones just to get items I need.

Besides you have completely missed the point of the post.

I have components that I NEVER USE in any custom item that I can make.

The components that the custom items use items I DO NOT RECEIVE at the current location of the game I'm in.

I have no reason to go 'back' to lower level.

Question still remain why do i have over 350 X9 (the component name is x9) and 275 unstable mutagens that are never used. But I need Goodman Precepts and Botano Serum of which I do not receive.

I am not going to buy items or components form the auction hall. People have put nothing short of extortion prices on items and components on the auction hall. You do not receive the amount of resources required form normal game play to be able to afford the prices on the auction hall. I my self had about 350,000r upon reaching Lv400 in the sci craft I had to spend most of that on the enhancements.

So shall we not insult my intelligence with post like 'just do this' or 'just do that' kind of response and lets call this what it is. A broken crafting system. I am a above intelligence person. And I have played many mmo's and thus the crafting system in said mmo's. This isn't the first broken crafting system I have used either. I'm not here to complain but to find answers. And hopefully give feedback. But I cant do that because the system is confusing and has no transparency.

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Here is the thing with crafting. If you want certain components, there are areas that they can be gathered at. Go there and get the items. Don't just think that the items should be wherever you go in the game. If its a certain Tier of crafting item, go to the place where that Tier is frequent. Don't expect things to be handed to you especially at near max level Crafting. That is where things will get complicated and actually require some extra effort for the rewards.

Just take the time and get the items. No one is trying to insult your intelligence, its just you will have to do some work to get what you want. Some crafting resources are rarer than others and those are the ones that you will need to spend some extra time trying to get.

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And also I do not feel the crafting system is broken. By you saying it is is merely your OPINION and there are those of us who do not feel the same way. If you are really that upset, send a bug report or suggestion to the Devs with your input. Don't just rant and expect things to change.

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ravare wrote:

And also I do not feel the crafting system is broken. By you saying it is is merely your OPINION and there are those of us who do not feel the same way.

You're right. Forgive my arrogance. I shall stick to facts.

Fact: The crafting system is a standard system used in many MMO's. In said system levels are gained by breaking down/creating items. Levels provide access to higher level items. Items are created with components. Components are gathered and are received by breaking down items found. The higher the item you want to create the more levels in crafting is required and also the components required are gathered form the same general tier.

Fact: The Customizable Item Blue Prints require components form about Lv200-300.

Fact: Components Gathered form about Lv300-400 are not used in any Customizable Item Blue Prints.

Fact: Components needed for the Customizable Items are not received in the higher locations.

Fact: There are no Customizable Item Blue prints that use the higher tier components.

Fact: The required number of components required in the customizable items from the lower tiers is a significant amount making up a large portion of the over all required number.

My opinions are based in facts. Why would you be required to gather (see level up crafting) items that you will never need or use. You claim that I should 'put some effort' in to getting the items that I want. Well, sir, that is exactly what I have done. Only the system is not set up for that. I have spent a lot of time and effort leveling up my character, and in turn leveling up my crafting as I went along, saving up components and such. Only to find out they're not used or are not available to me unless I stop my progression and back track. No sir, this is not a rant but in fact a logical and reasonable decry of the system.

At the moment nothing that I have gathered from about Lv300+ will ever be used for anything. A significant amount of time, of which apparently I should have spent in a lower tier instead. That, sir, is a broken system. To get to a point where the only way to advance is the basically throw everything you have away and go spend time doing it all over again to get the components you need.

What did I expect? What I expected as I was leveling up was that all the components I was gathering would be used as some point on higher level blue prints. I did not expect that the components to be completely useless and have to throw them all away and return to a lower level zone and grind out crafting nodes and/or kill mobs 20 levels below me to get items to break down.

At this point if I feel that anyone here is doing nothing more but to attack me I will report it to the moderators. I expect anyone here to give there opinions on the subject of course, but I do not expect people to attack me with post that are essentially "L2P." I will not tolerate it.

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Edix wrote:

You're right. Forgive my arrogance. I shall stick to facts.

Fact: The crafting system is a standard system used in many MMO's. In said system levels are gained by breaking down/creating items. Levels provide access to higher level items. Items are created with components. Components are gathered and are received by breaking down items found. The higher the item you want to create the more levels in crafting is required and also the components required are gathered form the same general tier.

Fact: The Customizable Item Blue Prints require components form about Lv200-300.

Fact: Components Gathered form about Lv300-400 are not used in any Customizable Item Blue Prints.

Fact: Components needed for the Customizable Items are not received in the higher locations.

Fact: There are no Customizable Item Blue prints that use the higher tier components.

Fact: The required number of components required in the customizable items from the lower tiers is a significant amount making up a large portion of the over all required number.

My opinions are based in facts. Why would you be required to gather (see level up crafting) items that you will never need or use. You claim that I should 'put some effort' in to getting the items that I want. Well, sir, that is exactly what I have done. Only the system is not set up for that. I have spent a lot of time and effort leveling up my character, and in turn leveling up my crafting as I went along, saving up components and such. Only to find out they're not used or are not available to me unless I stop my progression and back track. No sir, this is not a rant but in fact a logical and reasonable decry of the system.

At the moment nothing that I have gathered from about Lv300+ will ever be used for anything. A significant amount of time, of which apparently I should have spent in a lower tier instead. That, sir, is a broken system. To get to a point where the only way to advance is the basically throw everything you have away and go spend time doing it all over again to get the components you need.

What did I expect? What I expected as I was leveling up was that all the components I was gathering would be used as some point on higher level blue prints. I did not expect that the components to be completely useless and have to throw them all away and return to a lower level zone and grind out crafting nodes and/or kill mobs 20 levels below me to get items to break down.

At this point if I feel that anyone here is doing nothing more but to attack me I will report it to the moderators. I expect anyone here to give there opinions on the subject of course, but I do not expect people to attack me with post that are essentially "L2P." I will not tolerate it.

And if you feel the issue is that large, then I would STRONGLY suggest posting some feedback to the devs or even reporting it directly to the devs in an informative manner with a less ranting tone. This way they will consider what you are saying more so. THe Devs have proven that they are listening to the player base and taking our opinions into consideration. Put your post in the correct tone and with a little more "data" then the Devs are sure to take a look at it and consider your point.

I do hope you get some feedback from the Devs or that you can find some remedy to this problem, seriously, no hate here.

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Edix wrote:

Fact: The Customizable Item Blue Prints require components form about Lv200-300.

Fact: Components Gathered form about Lv300-400 are not used in any Customizable Item Blue Prints.

Fact: Components needed for the Customizable Items are not received in the higher locations.

Fact: There are no Customizable Item Blue prints that use the higher tier components.

Fact: The required number of components required in the customizable items from the lower tiers is a significant amount making up a large portion of the over all required number.

...

At this point if I feel that anyone here is doing nothing more but to attack me I will report it to the moderators. I expect anyone here to give there opinions on the subject of course, but I do not expect people to attack me with post that are essentially "L2P." I will not tolerate it.

First of all, I did not "attack you" at all. If you had looked at my signature, you would see that I also have 400 science skill and so I thought I would be able to help you by offering my experiences. You gave what you believed to be a problem with the crafting system, and I gave you four different possible solutions. That's not an "attack", and quite frankly I don't know how you came to the conclusion that it was.

Also, many of the "facts" that you have presented here are simply incorrect. If the items you are attempting to make require tier 3 (200-300) components, then you are attempting to make tier 3 recipes. Making tier 3 recipes when you are a tier 4 crafter will require you to either (1) acquire them from other people or (2) go back to tier 3 zones and locate them yourself.

Also, there is a customizable item for EVERY slot that uses tier 4 resources. They require level 38 to equip and the blueprints are available from your specialization trainer. From the "facts" you have listed above, my best guess is that you are only training at the general science trainer and not your specialization (inventions, mutations, exposures) trainer - if so, you're missing a lot of recipes.

So I don't want this to sound like an "L2P" post, as you've put it, but the error as far as I can tell is yours and not the crafting system's. There are plenty of customizable and non-customizable items that use tier 4 resources. If you have not trained these recipes and are attempting to make tier 3 recipes instead, there is no reason to complain that you need tier 3 components.

Now, if you've trained all the recipes at the exposures trainer and you have the level 38 customizable ones AND these ones are using tier 3 resources instead of tier 4 resources, that would be a bug. I'm inventions, so I haven't seen the exposures recipes and this is possible I suppose - but I've never heard this from anyone else who has exposures. But I would appreciate it if you were a bit more respectful to people who are trying to help you solve your problem instead of claiming that they have attacked you.

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Branclem wrote:

Also, there is a customizable item for EVERY slot that uses tier 4 resources. They require level 38 to equip and the blueprints are available from your specialization trainer. From the "facts" you have listed above, my best guess is that you are only training at the general science trainer and not your specialization (inventions, mutations, exposures) trainer - if so, you're missing a lot of recipes.

Thanks, I actually had suspected this. If this is the case where is the Specialized Exposure Trainer as it is not listed on the map/s? As for the rest it is irrelevant at this point, forgive any precised arrogance.

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Edix wrote:

Thanks, I actually had suspected this. If this is the case where is the Specialized Exposure Trainer as it is not listed on the map/s? As for the rest it is irrelevant at this point, forgive any precised arrogance.

Don't worry about it. I apologize if anything in my original post was worded so that it sounded like an insult to your intelligence.

I'm pretty sure it is marked on the map in Millennium City, but I'll take a look in game for you in a minute to see if it isn't. I know there's a level 13 quest from some of the crafting trainers that sends you to the location of each specialization trainer.

EDIT: I can confirm that the exposures trainer is actually not marked on the map - he is, in fact, standing right next to the general trainers. This is at the building in the Renaissance Center where the trainers and science crafting tables are located. He's on the left side if you come in from the middle of Ren Center.

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I'm on my way there. Thanks for the info. Found it.

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Well done Branclem. Handling folks that are frustrated is a fine line to negotiate. I dont mean to knock Edix, but his demeanor was unwarranted. I feel his frustration only with the lack of clarification throughout the crafting evolution.

I have done fairly well while floundering through the process. Everything you have said is quite right and about the procedures of crafting in general. You do need to go back and collect items needed for recipes unless there are recipes allowing the breaking down of components to be used in lower level recipes.

Also, and Im not sure about this, arent there recipes that drop off mobs that might use rare components? I do think Edix's main issue is not getting the direction to train in any of the three specializations of his paticular field.

I feel that the annotation of the crafting process could be better. I do feel that they will in time, with proper feedback, will get this right.

As a crafter branching through many MMO's, starting with EQ1, the narative of CO's crafting process could be much better. I havent been to any of the Fan-Sites, but maybe there is a good site out there that can explain better then CO has done.

Basically I wanted to say "Well done" in handling the matter. You didnt have to take your time to handle the matter and its a breath of fresh air to see someone not get flustered and still help out the original poster. Ive seen many posts go from bad to worse because someone has issues and no solution is ever reached.

Well done bud. You will make a great Husband/Father with that demeanor. :cool:

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Thank you for your kind words, Gtorn.

While I think that the crafting system as a whole is solid and not overly complicated, I can certainly sympathize with the sentiment expressed by both you and Edix - that the documentation for the system's functionality is lacking. The blueprints using those tier 4 and rare materials are certainly there in-game, but not everyone may realize that you need to go to a specialist trainer to obtain them. While the quests I mentioned show you where they are, I'm not sure if all crafting trainers offer them, and if you are well above level 13 you may never see them as an exclamation point on the map.

As long as we keep our criticism to the game and ideas instead of the people putting forth the ideas, the crafting system will ultimately benefit. Of course, this runs for the developers too - Antiproton, the rewards system designer, is an active reader and poster in these forums and clearly is very dedicated towards the game's crafting system. He does take what we say into account and you can see that some of the explanations in-game have improved: for example, trainers now give suggestions of what crafting skills are most useful to which frameworks and we can now see the stats of items before purchasing the blueprint. So by refraining from taking out any dissatisfaction with the system on other posters or the developers, we can work on improving the system in a calm and rational way.

EDIT: Just to clarify, that last paragraph is not directed at anyone in particular, but as a general rule for the community at large.

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Edix wrote:

Uh ... No, why would i go to lower level zones just to get items I need.

Wait, what?

Wouldn't you go to lower level areas to get items you need, because you need those items?

I'm having flashbacks to Allen Iverson's practice speech. How's he supposed to make his teammates better with practice?

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I do remember the quest you are talking about. I remember being sent to the 'inventions' location and also doing a quest around the 'mutation' location. However, I never received a quest to go to 'my' trainer for exposures nor was there any mention in said quests that told me about specialized blue print vendors. The question I now have in my head is why split the crafting vendors up like that. And even if you choose to do it that way why not add in special instructions explicitly 'in the face' of the user so they wouldn't miss something this important.

Also, I will not comment on any other issue stated as it is irrelevant. I will, however, speak privately if need be send me a privet message.

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Edix wrote:

I am not going to buy items or components form the auction hall. People have put nothing short of extortion prices on items and components on the auction hall. You do not receive the amount of resources required form normal game play to be able to afford the prices on the auction hall. I my self had about 350,000r upon reaching Lv400 in the sci craft I had to spend most of that on the enhancements.

I know I am beating a dead horse a little bit, and I apologize for that, but since it has been brought up again...

The AH is broken at the moment and will not show you listings for items that are newer. Therefore all the outrageously priced crafting components sit and sit forever until the only 100 items you can view are the ones asking 10g for 1 machine gear.

It's not the community per se, I'm very sure if the AH were designed properly that we would see decent prices for components, and there are probably hundreds there that nobody can see or buy. It hurts the seller and it hurts the buyer.

Just FYI