Does Cryptic really want everyone to be a tank mage?

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I thought the problem of everyone having defensive, offensive and healing abilities would just be a problem in PvP (where if you made the mistake of specializing you will get pwned by the dps-tank-healer). But as I level in PvE, it seems that even in full or near full groups the tank mage mixes do so much better. As a pure healer, I get pwned in the big nasty pulls and our tank way out heals me. Arg!

They really need to make specialization more important- make the stats matter more on the ability (at lot more than the abilities rank). Right now it seems players just need 4 powers maxed out (one power builder, one nuke, one toughness ability and a heal).

True, I have only tried out two players at lvl 40 briefly, but it did not seem to disagee with this trend. I seriously hope I am mistaken somehow or the cryptic changes it. I am so amazed with how awesome the game is, it really depressed me about this potential bug: in 4 months everyone is playing a tank-mage.

Note: I never solo and only group.

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Maybe the stats are important, but they're just not stating what they are in the power descriptions.

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I hope so. I want to be completely wrong. I love this game.

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The issue that you would be looking at here is a tank with Con/Pres is currently the best tank type. High presence to hold threat doubles as the key stat for heals.

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Of course as a telepath the last thing you want is all the threat, being primarily healer / cc... why on earth is the main healing start linked to the main threat gen stat?

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No, Cryptic wants you to be a Tank Mage CC Medic.

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Maybe you need to stop thinking this is Wow. This game is not built purely around group content.

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You problem is that you're trying to specialize in something that, really, you can't. What's the point of a healer when you auto-heal in between fights? You're better off taking powers that can prevent damage to you team (holds and buffs) or powers that increase their damage. Besides, in order to be a "pure healer", you'd have to go across three sets and mix powers that don't mesh well. How many healing powers do you have?

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DangerouslyGeeky wrote:

Maybe you need to stop thinking this is Wow. This game is not built purely around group content.

Maybe need to stop thinking that this is a solo game with multiplayer as an extra feature..........

Its like in wow, the more you heal the more threat you generate, its the same here but done with stats rather than amounts. Unfortunately this doesn't balance well and ends up getting healers slaughtered or really weak heals.

Right now I have regen on my supernatural / socery character, and I can just walk into a group of enemies and slaughter them. Annoyingly however is the fact that others without this ability have the same healing rate as me or higher, simpl becase of their stats.

What they should do is make all stat changing abilities really OP, then go back and balance them with stats, that way you would only achieve certain stats via abilities. They are supposed to be super powers, not spells in wow after all

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This doesn't sound much like a "bug"

This game is solo friendly, yes. Wait till you get to the higher levels and try doing lairs where all the mobs are tough (elite) alone. There's times you'll want some back-up healing because you can get spiked hard, no matter what your defense is. There's times you're gonna need some real control, not just a power you picked up for the hell of it.

In general, the everything guy can manage pretty well. Get a team of everything guys and try to take on Telios Tower or something, I guarantee the mediocre mish-mash wont get very far. Unless its a team of good min/maxers.

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Dangeriously Geeky, I think you are a bit confused, WoW is the most soloable MMORPG to date. But regardless, I am very glad this game is super soloable. But that is no reason to kill the group play. If everyone is a tank mage, then there are no points to roles.

What bugs me is I HAVE to get a defense ability, since tanks' taunts don't work well when you get more than 5 or so mobs. I have played with several tanks, all of which insist they know what they are doing, but they just can't get the mobs off me. Crowd Control does not work as well since it either does not last long or it is easy to break with AE going off everywhere.

And on a side note, if I use my AE power with my telepath, I seem to be outdamaging our dps players. I did not specialize it and I was in sentinal mode, yet I seem to put out more damage. Either this ability is broken, or my healer is only one power away from being a DPS-Tank-Healer. My friends who are playing dps where just as depressed that I was outdamaging them as I was about the tank out healing me.

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EuzaRaa wrote:

This doesn't sound much like a "bug"

I know this may not seem like an obvious bug, since it is probably "working as intended". But I am calling it a bug, becuase if it is better for everyone to be a tank-healer-mage then in a few months everyone will pull a warhammer and quit. I love this game and hope I can help them fix this "bug" before it is too late, or someone explain to me how I am mistaken (I would not mind being wrong on this).

Besides, there has not been serious trolling on this thread yet. I was hoping this tread could be more productive. People who post on the bug forum actually want to help fix the game, while most in general chat just want to whine or insult eachother.

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czn99 wrote:

Of course as a telepath the last thing you want is all the threat, being primarily healer / cc... why on earth is the main healing start linked to the main threat gen stat?

Presence works both ways, both as a threat increase and a threat decrease. If you're in a defense role, presence will increase your threat. If you're in DPS or Support (Heal) roles, it decreases your threat.

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EinherjarLucian wrote:

Presence works both ways, both as a threat increase and a threat decrease. If you're in a defense role, presence will increase your threat. If you're in DPS or Support (Heal) roles, it decreases your threat.

Ah interesting, good to note. Thanks.

Xaimum: i never said I was trying to specialize in one aspect such as healing. I specifically said healing / CC, CC means crowd control. That's exactly what you recommended, holds and healing = telepath. My complaint was simply that, when i did heal (and despite healing between fights, in a group or solo, against tougher mobs it happens) I almost always took all aggro from all mobs. I would get increased threat from the healing value as well as increased threat from the high presence... I'll try changing the default role to DPS or Support and see how that plays...

I specifically like that there is no "pure" healer... makes me feel like i'm much more involved will still playing primarily a support role. Stun that guy, hold that guy, drop a heal... I'm not just a healbot!

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Also dont forget one of the attributes decreases threat ( i forget which atm ) . So if you find your healer is getting aggro'd maybe put some of your points into decreasing your threat rate?

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If you want to go healer in a group you need high presence and figth only in the support role. Presence in support role reduces threat (and increases healing from the telepatic powers ) and support role increases the power of your heals and crowd control.

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Empiricus wrote:

I know this may not seem like an obvious bug, since it is probably "working as intended". But I am calling it a bug, becuase if it is better for everyone to be a tank-healer-mage then in a few months everyone will pull a warhammer and quit. I love this game and hope I can help them fix this "bug" before it is too late, or someone explain to me how I am mistaken (I would not mind being wrong on this).

Besides, there has not been serious trolling on this thread yet. I was hoping this tread could be more productive. People who post on the bug forum actually want to help fix the game, while most in general chat just want to whine or insult eachother.

You know....

I haven't played this game long enough to make a comment about the game itself.

However, I've played WoW for years and I have to ask:

Why exactly do we need a "tank, healer, dps" paradigm in all role playing games?

The whole concept of threat in and of itself is sort of bizarre to begin with. Put yourself in the mind of a "boss". Why exactly would you beat on the toughest guy who's doing the least damage and the least healing? You wouldn't. Just as in PvP, you go for the healers and the soft targets that are often doing the most damage, especially if left alone to pew pew. So why are games like WoW built on the notion of the "Most powerful beings in all of Azeroth" being tactically and strategically retarded? Why do you want CO to follow in that path? Of course it's a game convention we all sort of suspend disbelief and accept.

But wouldn't a game that involves role playing that can effectively abandon the tank-healer-dps routine be a breath of fresh air?

I'm not sure that's what CO is going for but if it is, as a new CO player, I am intrigued.

What I want in this game, as a WoW player, is an adventure with some sense of discovery about the game and combat system. So far, character customization alone has been an interesting switch. Just seeing the designs people come up with is interesting. I'd love it if at end game that my gameplay is as customizable as my look.

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This is supposed to be a classless game, you're NOT supposed to think of, "Oh I will be the healer, you guys do the damage". STOP ASKING FOR THIS. I love WoW, I still play it, but I, and most other people I know, DON'T WANT THIS GAME TO TRY TO BE LIKE WoW. This was designed to be a fun, lighthearted game.

You're the same as the whiners that complained about the Henchman being "too easy", YOU'RE A SUPERHERO!!!!! Superman never had problems with Henchman, they were like paper to him, THAT'S THE FREAKING POINT!!

Enough is enough....

1) No CLASSES, NONE, NADA, play accordingly
2) PvP is supposed to be unbalanced: if you don't have much defense, you are squishy, and squishy things die, that's what they do, that's their thing.
3) If you want classes, or balanced PvP, PLAY WoW, and stop ruining a perfectly good game.

Oh, and message to devs, take user suggestions for changing this masterpiece with a grain of salt. Most of them don't want you to make your product, they want you to make their product, and most of the people that purchased LifeTime Memberships did so because of the direction you were going in the Beta, not so you could pander to these whiny children.

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ByteStorm wrote:

This is supposed to be a classless game, you're NOT supposed to think of, "Oh I will be the healer, you guys do the damage". STOP ASKING FOR THIS. I love WoW, I still play it, but I, and most other people I know, DON'T WANT THIS GAME TO TRY TO BE LIKE WoW. This was designed to be a fun, lighthearted game.

You're the same as the whiners that complained about the Henchman being "too easy", YOU'RE A SUPERHERO!!!!! Superman never had problems with Henchman, they were like paper to him, THAT'S THE FREAKING POINT!!

Enough is enough....

1) No CLASSES, NONE, NADA, play accordingly
2) PvP is supposed to be unbalanced: if you don't have much defense, you are squishy, and squishy things die, that's what they do, that's their thing.
3) If you want classes, or balanced PvP, PLAY WoW, and stop ruining a perfectly good game.

Oh, and message to devs, take user suggestions for changing this masterpiece with a grain of salt. Most of them don't want you to make your product, they want you to make their product, and most of the people that purchased LifeTime Memberships did so because of the direction you were going in the Beta, not so you could pander to these whiny children.

I've been trying to expand this message.

It's taken lots of years to have a mainstream MMO developer to make a classless, choice-free MMO. What you are playing now is a gem. Despite all the bugs and all the bad decisions which some of the time I don't support as well.

But it is the gem lots of seasoned RPG players have been asking for for a very long time.

Clear any idea of an MMO you have and embrace the classless concept. You are FREE to do whatever you want.

I'm amazed how hard it's being for a lot of people to understand and use this Freedom that's been given to you.