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Will Cryptic Offer refunds for those that cannot play this game
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Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
I have a 2.10 Ghz dual core, 4 gigs of ram, and an ATI 4650 Mobile card on my laptop. I didnt expect to run this game at max, to be fair I figured medium with a few settings turned down. And I would have been fine with that. but currently i have to run.
1) Cpu optimization software (which i downloaded because of this game, it turns off processes im not using other than CO)
2) Defrag, clean optimize, regedit etc my computer to streamline the crap out of it
3) Change my Video card settings through the control pannel to a series of settings that are SPECIFIC for this game
4) Turn all of the ingame settings down to the lowest possible settings, including the so called "TROUBLESHOOTING OPTIONS"
5) Stay away from populated zones ( i have to choose the most empty instances now, instead of playing with people im forced to play alone
6) Regularly Turn off my UI (hell i bound the toggle to "Z") Just to beable to use Travel powers, or go anywhere near a helipad or area full of Traders etc.
All to achieve a WHOPPING 35 FPS standing still, and 20 FPS moving and than 10-15 FPS in travel mode. (double these numbers when the UI is turned off than again with the UI Turned off I cant see my mini map, traget anyone, interacet with any objects etc.. etc..
This is unacceptable.
Do I have the best PC, NO no I don't. But this isnt Warhammer online graphics here, were takling about a game that is graphically on par wtih Guildwars to say the best. And My laptop plays both of those game FINE, at max settings by the way. (okay a few options turned down on War, but still only a few)
Believe me, the fact is, even a 2.1ghz dual core should be running this game at 60FPS at medium settings, if you have a recent 512mb card. with shadows turned off. The fact that Quad Core 3ghz machines with 1 gig on board memory recent generation GPU's can't play this stable is an attrocity.
This is killing the community. A LOT of people did the closed beta this was a problem during the closed beta, from what i'm hearing on the forums, it was a problem during the open beta, it continues to plauge us during the head start, and barring a miracle come tomorrow after noon.. wee you get the picture
I have no doubt, that many of the community memebers will be leaving the game, and checking back with the forums periodically, until this is fixed because the fact remains, that while some of u talk a big game ( I guess you have money to blow) were not gonna buy new CPU's for a game that looks no better than say "guild wars" which is an instnace based MMO that has been out for years and plays on just about anything.. Hell I bet my Smart Phone coudl run it.
I'm not at home right now, I'm away for a school, and while my Desktop at home, may be able to get a few FPS better, from what i hear, its not gonna do much better. And My desktop at home, is the one I build specifcally to CRUSH crysis, which by the way it does.
What we have here is poor optimization (not lazy mind you) simply poor.
It will be fixed, and im sure we will come back when it is.
But cyrptic was smart They knew they had a pretty established fan base, after the release of City of Heroes and City of Villans (2 of my favorite MMO's to date) those game were amazing, they ran well on just about anything (yes they were cpu intensive fan boys, but not like this, even when they first came out my pc played them at max FPS MAX settings) They knew that those players would come over, hell many of them were beta participants. And while they had them gathered they did the following:
OFFER discout 6 month and life time subscriptions for Champions online. And do so during the beta phase. Now quickly put a time limit on them, People buy these subs in advance, because they trust the company, many of them did so before the early start and many others did during the early start believing that the issue would be fixed quickly. Hell I bought mine during day one of the open beta, because I belived that the Debugger and beta phase was the root of the problem (more than a few posts lead me to belive that). Now that the early start has opend up I'm realizing I was wrong.
If it is not fixed quickly, these people (my self) included are gonnal feel pretty cheated. But hey thats the way it goes I guess. They got 6 months worth of my money to fix it, meanwhile until they do I'm playing a game that to be honest barely runs and I belive (honestly believe) that, that is exactly what they planned on from the start. Why put a time limit on them, that expired before the early start? Why not that expired on the release day, or GASP a week after.
The truth is, the level of graphics this game offers is decieving, it doesnt look that impressive (comic style) it looks very good, and I for one enjoy the styling (not that i get to see it in game, I cant run it at anything above the lowest) but the videos look amazing. The problem is, for some reason it murders all but the most amazing machines. And that is sad.
So Cryptic team members: Are you going to be offering a refund for lifetime and 6 months subs, for those of us who "whie we would much prefer a fix for the problem, we love your game" just well to put it plainly we can't play
To be honest, I don't want my money back, I just wanna play the game
, even just a quick "were working on it, 3 weeks estimated to fix" or "we atleast know WHATS wrong, were working on fixing it" I just don't wanna spend the money to find out that this is just how its going to be.
Tinygod
1) Cpu optimization software (which i downloaded because of this game, it turns off processes im not using other than CO)
2) Defrag, clean optimize, regedit etc my computer to streamline the crap out of it
3) Change my Video card settings through the control pannel to a series of settings that are SPECIFIC for this game
4) Turn all of the ingame settings down to the lowest possible settings, including the so called "TROUBLESHOOTING OPTIONS"
5) Stay away from populated zones ( i have to choose the most empty instances now, instead of playing with people im forced to play alone
6) Regularly Turn off my UI (hell i bound the toggle to "Z") Just to beable to use Travel powers, or go anywhere near a helipad or area full of Traders etc.
All to achieve a WHOPPING 35 FPS standing still, and 20 FPS moving and than 10-15 FPS in travel mode. (double these numbers when the UI is turned off than again with the UI Turned off I cant see my mini map, traget anyone, interacet with any objects etc.. etc..
This is unacceptable.
Do I have the best PC, NO no I don't. But this isnt Warhammer online graphics here, were takling about a game that is graphically on par wtih Guildwars to say the best. And My laptop plays both of those game FINE, at max settings by the way. (okay a few options turned down on War, but still only a few)
Believe me, the fact is, even a 2.1ghz dual core should be running this game at 60FPS at medium settings, if you have a recent 512mb card. with shadows turned off. The fact that Quad Core 3ghz machines with 1 gig on board memory recent generation GPU's can't play this stable is an attrocity.
This is killing the community. A LOT of people did the closed beta this was a problem during the closed beta, from what i'm hearing on the forums, it was a problem during the open beta, it continues to plauge us during the head start, and barring a miracle come tomorrow after noon.. wee you get the picture
I have no doubt, that many of the community memebers will be leaving the game, and checking back with the forums periodically, until this is fixed because the fact remains, that while some of u talk a big game ( I guess you have money to blow) were not gonna buy new CPU's for a game that looks no better than say "guild wars" which is an instnace based MMO that has been out for years and plays on just about anything.. Hell I bet my Smart Phone coudl run it.
I'm not at home right now, I'm away for a school, and while my Desktop at home, may be able to get a few FPS better, from what i hear, its not gonna do much better. And My desktop at home, is the one I build specifcally to CRUSH crysis, which by the way it does.
What we have here is poor optimization (not lazy mind you) simply poor.
It will be fixed, and im sure we will come back when it is.
But cyrptic was smart They knew they had a pretty established fan base, after the release of City of Heroes and City of Villans (2 of my favorite MMO's to date) those game were amazing, they ran well on just about anything (yes they were cpu intensive fan boys, but not like this, even when they first came out my pc played them at max FPS MAX settings) They knew that those players would come over, hell many of them were beta participants. And while they had them gathered they did the following:
OFFER discout 6 month and life time subscriptions for Champions online. And do so during the beta phase. Now quickly put a time limit on them, People buy these subs in advance, because they trust the company, many of them did so before the early start and many others did during the early start believing that the issue would be fixed quickly. Hell I bought mine during day one of the open beta, because I belived that the Debugger and beta phase was the root of the problem (more than a few posts lead me to belive that). Now that the early start has opend up I'm realizing I was wrong.
If it is not fixed quickly, these people (my self) included are gonnal feel pretty cheated. But hey thats the way it goes I guess. They got 6 months worth of my money to fix it, meanwhile until they do I'm playing a game that to be honest barely runs and I belive (honestly believe) that, that is exactly what they planned on from the start. Why put a time limit on them, that expired before the early start? Why not that expired on the release day, or GASP a week after.
The truth is, the level of graphics this game offers is decieving, it doesnt look that impressive (comic style) it looks very good, and I for one enjoy the styling (not that i get to see it in game, I cant run it at anything above the lowest) but the videos look amazing. The problem is, for some reason it murders all but the most amazing machines. And that is sad.
So Cryptic team members: Are you going to be offering a refund for lifetime and 6 months subs, for those of us who "whie we would much prefer a fix for the problem, we love your game" just well to put it plainly we can't play
To be honest, I don't want my money back, I just wanna play the game
, even just a quick "were working on it, 3 weeks estimated to fix" or "we atleast know WHATS wrong, were working on fixing it" I just don't wanna spend the money to find out that this is just how its going to be.Tinygod
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Comments
I love this game and want to play it so bad
I pre ordered it in full during the closed beta assuming these kinks would be worked out by launch
well now that launch is here im just going to shelf my unopened box tomorrow and check back from time to time on the game status before i use my 30 free days
I'm also laughing my **** off at the fact that you said this isn't Warhammer online, which looks slightly better than WoW while Champions looks closer to Age of conan.
As it is, I'm teetering on the edge of upgrading my whole computer (to an AMD Phenom X4 97750 running at 2.4GHz, yes a B3-seilicon revision model, with 8GB of RAM, on a fresh OS install of Vista Home Premium 64-bit ... and plunking my current GeForce GTS250 card into it.
If, after doing that, I can't set the quality-vs-performance slider to at least the 50% mark and still achieve a stable 30+fps, and it remains that way past ... oh, I'll be generous and give Cryptic until November 01 ... well yes, I will start asking for a refund. Because even 30fps is, IMO, "falling well short of expected results".
A person's local Consumer Protection laws might say otherwise. Just because it's in a contract, does not mean it's legally enforcable upon you.
If the game is leterally unsuitable for it's advertised purpose, even when meeting the system specifications recommended by Cryptic ... then there is a very real problem, and the EULA will most likely not fully shield Cryptic from potential refund liability.
People need to learn to get over it. I play this game at 23FPS standing still, 15 traveling and I play JUST FINE. It does not hinder my ability to play AT ALL. Sure, it's not the prettiest but it's not a slideshow either. Get over it and no, you shouldnt get a refund. That's playable.
(as you indicated) you should have only subscribed on a month-to-month basis which could be canceled at any time.
That is not "just fine".
True.
I now have a new PC on the way, with an AMD Phenom X4 9750 clocked at 2.4GHz/core, 8GB of memory, and VISTA Home Premium SP1. As soon as it gets here, I'll drop my GTS 250 (1GB) into it. And I really really REALLY hope that gets me at least to the 20-25 (15 while moving) level, for fps.
It should get me into the "permanently 45-60" level, mind. But at least the new computer should get me out of "10-minutes to Headache City" territory.
Ouch. Vista, huh? I woulda gone with 7 personally. lol
Historically, new versions of Windows have been "less than stellar" in terms of stability and games compatibility. After a few years though, MS has time to address the issues their newest OS has, and they become much more tolerable. Look at VISTA and XP originally, for example: in the first year or two of their lives, they were HORRIBLE for non-experts (meaning, people like me: "as long as the magic smoke doesn't escape ... I turn it on, and it works").
VISTA is now in the "stable enough for comfortable non-expert use"; my g/f has the same edition of Vista on her laptop, and it's been perfectly stable. Granted, she's not much of a gamer, but she DOES have WoW on it, and it runs that just fiine.
Whereas, Win7 isn't even out quite yet. So I don't want to touch it for at least 8-12 months after it's official Launch. I'll let you brave folks go traipsing about looking for unexpected minefields, thanks.
I fully agree with you on MS's track record with Windows, but Windows 7 is just awesome.
I think it is spared the problems XP and Vista had because it is essentially a re-worked Vista. Functionally, it works like Vista with all the headaches removed.
I dunno, it's hard to explain...but it works a lot better for me than Vista.
http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?t=46395
this will not work for everyone.
I would if I could flippin' log in.
Damn you, Cryptic. ><
And for those of us not using 64-bit Vista? :rolleyes:
32-bit vista will recognize 4 gig, but cannot address it all. Not sure about how Windows 7 handles the 64/32 bit thing...
I have had no problems with either my laptop nor my desktop. Both running 32-bit Vista with 3 gig ram. Laptop has a dinky ATI card and desktop has nVidia 8600GT with 512 ram.
I agree, I have Vista and have not had a single problem with it.
And no way will I trust a new OS for at least a year after release, all the stupid hacks and security issues usually show up after they hand it over to the GP anyway.
So, how does the memory usage of VISTA, apply at all to someone NOT USING VISTA AT ALL ...?!?
Clearly, "the problem" is not how much memory VISTA does or does not use. While that memory usage may be an exacerbating factor to be sure, it clearly cannot be the ROOT or causative element, because I HAVE the framerate problem, yet, Vista has never even been in the same ROOM as this computer.
...
Granted, the new computer - which should arrive around the 16th of this month, and be the first PC that I have owned outright, woo hoo! - will be a Vista machine. But it'll be running a 64-bit version of Home Premium SP1, with 8GB of RAM behind it's quad-core processor. And another 1GB on the video card, as well. So if I STILL have framerate problems, I will be (a) absolutely convinced it is NOT a too-little-memory-in-my-computer problem ... and (b) screaming, frothing-at-the-mouth, strongly-wish-to-do-someone-serious-bodily-harm ROYALLY PlSSED OFF.
Dude, we all know that Dual GeForce GTX 295's is totally the new GTS250!!!! That or Dual Radeon HD 4870..
Um, what's your problem?
No, the GTS 250 isn't THE newest card on the market - it's essentially a 9800GTX, rebuilt with a smaller (55nm) process. But it's still a solidly good card, nonetheless. And my signature's claims are 100% accurate: with a card like I have, the abysmal framerates I am getting are inexcusable.
I was getting (very slightly) BETTER framerates out of an old Radeon X600 ...!!
And if you want to split hairs ... the GTS295 is nothing moee than a PAIR of GTS260s mounted onto a single card.
...
So, again ... what's your problem? :rolleyes:
Um there is a slight difference between kinks and bugs, and the game not playing with its minimum or recommended system settings. And the 30 days free does not negate the fact that we paid in advance for the 6 month subscription or life time subscription (all though atleast life time isnt eating away at the months you paid for, while they work out the problem with the game not playing on your system)
the fact that they have an eula means nothing to me. I wonder if you have even bothered to read it.
please point out the area where it says "this game may not run on the systems we said it would"
seriously, your comments are just disgraceful, and pathetic.
and this game looks like age of conan ?? are you kidding?
Well... Here's my problem.
I know my computer sucks. I can vouch that simply by stating I don't even know what to post to show you how much it sucks.
I played in Closed and Open Beta and even though I had to have the graphics set to lowest, the game still ran and ran pretty well outside of massively populated areas.
I logged in today and it's unplayable in the tutorial.
Tried Canada Crisis. Unplayable.
So... something happened between now and the Open Beta.
I'm looking into upgrading my computer but since my funds are practically non-existent (a wedding will do that to you) I don't think it's feasible.
So what will happen when I receive my copy of Champions today? It will be shelved until I find out they fixed it or I somehow get a magical upgrade to my computer that allows me to play with at least 15 fps.
*Sigh... I loved this game. I truly did. I can't wait to be able to play it again.
Edit: Just took a look at the system requirements. I do meet the minimum requirements. I have a 3.2GZHz single core processor, 2gbs of RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 7900 GTS, and a nice, fresh install of DirectX 9.0c.
For the record, I'm running Windows XP SP3
If any of this info helps and I can get this game to run even half-way decent and I'm just missing it then let me know.
*just tried running through Canada Crisis again. Put everything I could to lowest including setting it to half resolution. Game looked even crappier then before and ran just as bad.
It might recognize it but it is physically impossible for a 32bit OS to actually use 3GB or more. And this includes any memory on your video or soundcard.
To actually use all the RAM you need a 64bit OS. That's just facts.
That being said, there's performance problems with this game for sure. I have a high-end gaming rig and barely get 25fps out of it, with a lot of options turned down. And yet games like Aion run on max settings absolutely no problem.
Indeed. The highest I've been able to get is around 40 on the lowest settings possible.
Meanwhile Aion runs at 130+ FPS constantly on max settings.
exactly. At a certain point, we need to say. THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE. And 6month and lifetime subs should be refundable, for the next 30 days.
Get Ntune and over clock it and see if that helps no way you should be running around with 15-20 fps on a quad core if you are then your system must have cheap ram and a bargin buy video card.:D
lol, how does this even relate to the topic at hand
honestly your computer is so far beyond the recommended settings, that it should not even be considered.
If a company says, so easy a child could use it, and you are a harvard professor, well, its not really fair to say, I can use it no problem, so there is no issue.
Though I realize you are responding to another post in this thread, I just thought I would point that out.
YOU GET 45 FPS to 60 FPS? are you kidding me, you are one ghz short of a ****ing super computer. Why are you not getting in the 100's
I've already overclocked my video card by quite a bit.
I don't dare overclock my CPU, as I can't afford a new one if this one fries.
Besides, with my system, I shouldn't have to overclock.
On the lowest settings, the games graphics aren't much, and could use some visual enhancements. However I'm sure there's plenty of advanced graphics options, in game, that you can increase without taking a hit.
I can run this game completely maxed without shadows in 1920x1080, WoW without shadows on max, Guild Wars completely maxed, and EVE Online completely maxed with great FPS. In Champions I get a huge hit when there is a raid of say 20 champs vs mega destroid, but otherwise it's a solid 30-40fps.
The point of me saying all this, although on the lowest settings it might look like Guild Wars level graphics, but on MAX it looks better than any of those games, by a long shot. WoW's toons look like walking cardboard boxes to me now, although I still like the game, I've lost interest in the toons.
Game just needs graphic tweaks for lower settings, smoother transition of texture pop-in on all settings, and optimization of the games graphics engine and drivers for ATI and NVIDIA.
Not sure if I got that right, but took a shot anyways.
The character complexity in CO in terms of texture, animation, variety, and effects is leap years ahead of WoW, Guild Wars, and EVE's characters.
Yeah, I agree whole-heartedly.
A refund doesn't fix it for those of us who didn't get a lifetime/six-month sub.
Just fix the game.
Oh... and after looking at these last few posts.
I can run WoW with everything maxed. EVERYTHING. It's one reason I thought I should be able to handle this game with at least medium settings.
I shouldn't, by any stretch of the imagination, struggle to run this game on lowest settings.
WoW will run well on a toaster. That is NO frame of reference at ALL.
Why should I have to wait for them to fix it, with an active subscription.
I should be able to get a refund and come back when its fixed.
Thats like paying for a Cruise ship tour around jamaica, arriving at the boat, and having the captain tell you that it can't carry any passengers who arent 40 years of age or older. But that they are working on correcting that (maybe) and that he will be keeping your ticket fair while they do so.
OH AND ALSO he's gonna be taking days off of the trip that you paid for, for each day you wait. So I hope it takes less that a week to fix it, or you paid for nothing.
And that example is by no means, that far off basis. I realize you guys who have super computers are doing okay at low to recommended settings. But those of us who just barely met the recommended settings are having a very bad experiences. And over all, it is not worth the subscription we paid.
because WOW is an example of an mmo that has:
1) been out for a very long time, and so has been subjected to many performance tweaks.
2) a game that was very much optimized and written with running on any computer in mind
this game fits neither of those criteria.
Yet another example of why after so many years WOW is still around.
say what you want about the big beast that shall not be named, but if it does one thing right, its that it RUNS and RUNS well.
PS: your comments made it sound as if WOW runs on a toaster because it has crap grahphics, I really hope thats not what your are implying.
because while the game is dated, it is by no means graphically lacking.
Use Aion, Crysis, CoD4 or 5, etc. Like I said earlier in this thread, Aion runs very smoothly on my system with everything maxed. CO barely gets over 25 and that's only if I disable the UI which isn't really an option.
The various forms of flight are the only option for travelling over MC. Anything else just lags waaaaaay too much. Particularly SJ is impossible.
-edit due to the post above mine-
I've been playing WoW for almost 5 years now, great game. But using it as a benchmark for a pc's graphical strength is no longer viable. And never really was.
And yet I think it still looks very acceptable.
Hmm... valid point.
How about Bioshock? Is that acceptable? My computer takes a little while for it to load up, but then it runs it nice and smooth.
I would add CoX but I guess that falls into WoW. Odd part is that I actually upgraded my computer to play CoX on max settings, even though WoW ran fine.
But yeah, back to the point. I can run Bioshock just fine. And that is a rather pretty game. (I don't own any of the other games, and will admit to being totally clueless as to what I should or should not use as a reference.) CO is pretty on max, or even recommended, settings but I'm playing on LOW... LOWEST even. I'm thinking that's a problem.
But these performance issues are either due to the game (UI looks like a culprit) and/or due to problems with CO vs Ati/Nvidia drivers.
Wouldn't worry too much about your pc being the problem. Cryptic has to fix this.
I can run WoW balls to the wall maxxed out, no problem, and get good smooth visuals. Even on an Epic land mount, in Northrend.
I don't know about CO or GW, nor do I care to download either to try.
No, on the lowest settings it looks worse than GW, by lightyears.
I do have network problems with CO though....
That's looking like a distinct possibility to me as well.
For some strange reason, whenever I open my Options window, my FPS goes down by a good 20 or so frames.
They have 250 Geforce EVGA cards for $110 these cards are crap your better off SLIing 8800 GTX cards Also look at what multiplier you have is it 16,32,64 ? if it is 16 only on the GPU then your bottlenecking your card Ram is important on the card even 512 cards are ok if they have high end pixel shadeing and a core clock of at least 533
Download a program called CPUID or known as CPU-Z this will tell you all the iner specs of a computer and you can see how your card fairs against others of its kind.:D
OH....MY..GAD!
Srsly. i just had a heart attack.
oh wait.. it's already past the 1st.. nevermiind, of course they can comment now. They already have your moneys