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Rather serious flaw in the Nemesis System
Archived Post
Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
So, I've found two glaring bugs in the Nemesis system:
1) Martial Arts minions don't use martial arts. They don't...at all. They throw spears and nets like rabid fishermen, and spam them at that.
2) There is no way to respec, edit or re-create your Nemesis or minions.
I have to say I find this quite disappointing, but hopefully they'll be ironed out in a patch in the near future. As it stands, I really can't bring myself to continue beyond the first Nemesis mission until my Nemesis is the way it should be - to do so would be a complete waste.
I can understand limited respecs for characters, and I presume that's why respecs were overlooked for the Nemesis, but they really need to be offered.
Possible solutions:
-Allow full respecs for Nemesis and/or Minions. I see this as somewhat unlikely, and if left unrestricted has the potential to water the Nemesis system down. Some things should be (somewhat) permanent.
-Offer a complete respec for the Nemesis valid up to the completion of the second Nemesis mission. That way, if you play through Lemurian Antiquities and realize you've made an error, you have time to fix it.
-Allow players to spend Nemesis points on "Tweaks", such as changing the fighting style the minions use, or taking your Nemesis to the tailor window (with costs escalating with more severe changes, as it is now with players).
Honestly, I feel that one way or another, something like this has to be implemented. The only alternative at the moment is to re-roll my entire character, and that really shouldn't be an acceptable one, should it?
Anyone else have thoughts?
Update: I filled out a GM ticket to see if they could fix this issue, and the answer is pretty much no. The GM was very patient and checked it all out, but in the end said there's no way for them to fix Nemesis issues on their end...so our only hope is a future patch.
(And for those who may be wondering, yes my Nemesis does have a legitimate bug as well, I wasn't merely summoning a GM to satisfy my picky personality. In short, I chose Robots for the minion type, and they display as all robots in the Nemesis Overview window, but in missions are actually a mixture of robots and mercenaries.)
My first Nemesis is a perfect storm of fail: a peppering of small bugs and, admittedly, a large helping of my own errors. The end result is that I'll be skipping the Nemesis system on this character and just doing it on the next one I roll, whenever that is. Which is fine, but obviously not ideal.
1) Martial Arts minions don't use martial arts. They don't...at all. They throw spears and nets like rabid fishermen, and spam them at that.
2) There is no way to respec, edit or re-create your Nemesis or minions.
I have to say I find this quite disappointing, but hopefully they'll be ironed out in a patch in the near future. As it stands, I really can't bring myself to continue beyond the first Nemesis mission until my Nemesis is the way it should be - to do so would be a complete waste.
I can understand limited respecs for characters, and I presume that's why respecs were overlooked for the Nemesis, but they really need to be offered.
Possible solutions:
-Allow full respecs for Nemesis and/or Minions. I see this as somewhat unlikely, and if left unrestricted has the potential to water the Nemesis system down. Some things should be (somewhat) permanent.
-Offer a complete respec for the Nemesis valid up to the completion of the second Nemesis mission. That way, if you play through Lemurian Antiquities and realize you've made an error, you have time to fix it.
-Allow players to spend Nemesis points on "Tweaks", such as changing the fighting style the minions use, or taking your Nemesis to the tailor window (with costs escalating with more severe changes, as it is now with players).
Honestly, I feel that one way or another, something like this has to be implemented. The only alternative at the moment is to re-roll my entire character, and that really shouldn't be an acceptable one, should it?
Anyone else have thoughts?
Update: I filled out a GM ticket to see if they could fix this issue, and the answer is pretty much no. The GM was very patient and checked it all out, but in the end said there's no way for them to fix Nemesis issues on their end...so our only hope is a future patch.
(And for those who may be wondering, yes my Nemesis does have a legitimate bug as well, I wasn't merely summoning a GM to satisfy my picky personality. In short, I chose Robots for the minion type, and they display as all robots in the Nemesis Overview window, but in missions are actually a mixture of robots and mercenaries.)
My first Nemesis is a perfect storm of fail: a peppering of small bugs and, admittedly, a large helping of my own errors. The end result is that I'll be skipping the Nemesis system on this character and just doing it on the next one I roll, whenever that is. Which is fine, but obviously not ideal.
Post edited by Archived Post on
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However, it does sound that the martial arts minions are bugged, or at least so if they're not going into melee. If they are, but are just not using a style or martial arts you like, then I'd suggest posting in the suggestions forum: We could do with some more variety in the nemesis minions.
It's a little of both, I suppose:
Firstly, they throw spears. Really? Throwing wooden spears is martial arts? I was picturing the VIPER Infiltrators, personally. Perhaps the combat style should be renamed "Spear Warrior" or "Primitive Hunter/Gatherer" or the like, and separated from the Martial Arts category.
Secondly, they throw nets. Fine, I suppose I can see that. Maybe some ninjas would throw nets...or similar martial combatants would use bolas, etc... So yeah thematically that's fine. What's bugged is that they spam it every opportunity they get. In melee, out of melee, whenever. The only other thing they do is throw their vanishing dust to become invisible and stand perfectly still until they reappear. In short, the most annoying henchmen imaginable.
I mean, maybe I'm just being silly. Granted, I'm a little miffed that I messed my Nemesis up, and that it's bugged to boot, so maybe I'm just being irrational in my miffed-edness...but on the off-chance that I'm being somewhat reasonable, could I suggest perhaps a Nemesis Powerhouse or Danger Room where you can preview all of this? Or, in the very least, a listing of Nemesis and Minion powers and their descriptions?
At this point, it's just a matter of me wanting to warn others about this while I hope for future love in a patch down the road.
The warning is thus: Be really, really careful about picking your Nemesis. Do not mis-click, make sure you triple check, and if you're unsure about a power set for Nemesis or Minions, play it safe and pick something you know. There's no going back (yet).
Seriously tho, that sucks, cheers fo the heads up on that i'll be sure to be careful when i bother to level a char past the tutorial.
Yeah, I suppose he is, at that. :rolleyes: It seems in my failure, I've inadvertently created the ultimate Nemesis - destroyer of character and player alike! Oh well, I'll slog on through I suppose. I really like the Nemesis himself, at least...so that's something.
Good luck to you, TwilightDrone!
I'm not sure if all the Nemesis minion sets are like this, but if you hate nets, don't don't don't DO NOT pick Powered Armor. I just did my first Nemesis mission, and that was a huge mistake. All they did was chain knockback. Chain. Knockback. I wasn't ever in any real danger, mind you, but I couldn't PLAY the stupid GAME because I spent the entire time in midair. They would knock me back while I was still in midair from being knocked back, surfing me through the air across a room where I would bounce out into another group of minions that would immediately knock me back.
I wish I had Fraps, so I could show you guys what this was like.
Mind you, I like a challenge. But this wasn't a challenge. This was just removing me (the player) from the game.
Oh man I wish I could have seen that! I've been knocked around a bit, but it sounds to me like Power Armored minions have a thing for pinball!
I know what you mean about not being able to play with your chain knockback minions. With the nets on my Martial Arts minions, I spent 15 seconds out of every 20 spamming 'Z' to break the endless stream of holds.
An occasional net or powerful knockback is fine - it adds a dimension of challenge. But having the minions just spam these attacks doesn't add challenge, it merely adds tedium and annoyance. You could put me in a room with 50 of my martial arts net-minions and I'd surely be permanently held...but they don't actually attack, so...
[snark]
Here's an idea...how about going totally insane and giving the martial arts minions some throwing stars? And hey, maybe some Thunderbolt Lunge and some other flashy martial arts powers. Heck, give them some sword cyclone -- go nuts! Just no tribal spears and net-spam please. (And on the behalf of those who picked Power Armor, no knockback-spam!)
[/snark]
Thanks for sounding in, hairlessOrphan! Hopefully this thread will get some dev attention. I don't expect them to drop everything and fix the Nemesis minions and add respeccing all of a sudden, but it'd be nice to simply know the issue is being addressed.
I have half robot and half mercenary, and the GM told me that was "working as intended", but It seemed pretty clear to me in the Minion screen that you can't select individual models for each of the 4 categories of minion. Maybe I'm just missing something.
As stated previously, when I access the MCPD Database to look at my Nemesis information, it shows the little picture of four robots, and then says "ROBOTS" in big, bold letters. Nowhere does it mention mercenaries.
The GM further informed me that it was merely a bug with how minions are displayed in the MCPD database, but I'm skeptical again.
Then again, maybe I just totally missed the mix-and-match option that was staring me right in the face. It certainly wouldn't be the first time for such things...
Well, that's a good start I suppose...but I'd much rather the ability to fix/respec a Nemesis be implemented first. It takes a bit of fun out of the whole thing when the Nemesis' name has a typo in it, among other things.
There no sense in having to put up with it for the entire Nemesis arc just so you can make a new one and finally play through it properly.
Sorry I couldn't get word out to you sooner, Thorwolfe. Spread the word, though. This needs to gain momentum.