FC.35.20241107.1 - Device Cooldowns Upon Build Swapping

kaiserin

Build Swapping
The following changes to build swapping will be available for testing on pts for the next coming weeks.


When build swapping, device cooldowns will now follow these rules:

• Any devices that are not shared between the builds will go on full cooldown, as if they were just equipped to the tray.
• Devices that are shared between the builds will retain whatever cooldown they were on when the swap occurred. If the amount of cooldown reduction is different between the builds, this value will adjust accordingly. If the device states that only one can be equipped, any device of the same name will also share this cooldown.
• Toggle devices shared between the builds will remain toggled on.

This change is being made to fix a variety of situations that allowed for players to bypass device cooldowns, as well as addressing the issue of players effectively having access to a larger tray of devices than the intended 5.

Please report any bugs you find with these new rules, and please give any feedback regarding any devices that may need their cooldown times looked into as a result of this change.

As a note when testing: PTS does not retain whatever costume slots you have unlocked from live. While they will still display, you will not be able to switch to any build that uses a costume located in a slot you do not have unlocked on PTS. Please keep this is mind when testing.




Collector Store

• Added the contents of the Electro Swing lockbox to the collector's store.

jaazaniah1

This is a horrible idea, full stop. Players have already expressed their hatred for it. Please listen to your players.

warcanch

You should instead be addressing the FEW devices that bypass the intended cooldown. This is and will be met with great dislike.

However, we all know that you are going to do it anyways, despite the feedback. So, can you at least bring down the overly long cooldowns on devices that just don't need to be that long? I can provide a list if it would help.

over9000bpm

I was only using it to switch to and from devices with zero combat applications. Vehicles and Weapon display devices. How about we get a separate tray just for those?

shapey

While I understand why this is happening, I don't understand why now. It's fairly obvious that when builds were implemented they didn't have the device cooldown thing in mind, but amidst an uproar of other things needing fixed, instead we get a patch that universally nerfs us. It's such a baffling decision to make for something that did relatively little in the grand scheme of things and would actually motivate players to collect multiple devices, as I can only imagine the outcome of this is that people will be strongly turned away from the idea of having more devices. After all, what's the point of carrying any more than five if changing any one of them will incur the cooldown? We don't have mechanics complicated enough to warrant changing devices per encounter.

Which brings us to another point: Vanity devices. There's a whole slew of devices that do nothing other than some silly effect or have application for role play, but they take up the exact same slots as anything that would have actual combat applications. Builds could easily swap those out without incurring the cooldown, but with this change you have to constantly check to make sure you have the right devices equip before even going to a combat situation--else, you're caught with your pants down because you wanted to shoot a ping pong ball at your friend. I would genuinely find it hard to believe if I'm the only one who would forget to swap out devices (as I have countless times before this change), so this feels needlessly punishing after we've all gotten so used to being able to do such.

I'd implore you to reconsider going through with this change, but as previously mentioned by others, we already know you're not going to back down. That being said, my feedback would be simply to remove or make vanity and mission device (with no combat application) cooldowns only 1 to 3 seconds. I'm not an avid device user, I don't have a laundry list of device cooldowns I'd like to see reduced so I don't have many suggestions there; however, I can say that LTS Potions should have their cd heavily reduced (3 to 5 minutes instead, can still share cd between the different ones) for this change, as waiting an entire 10 minutes for it to be usable would be ludicrous.

This isn't going to be a popular change no matter what.

jaazaniah1

warcanch wrote: »

You should instead be addressing the FEW devices that bypass the intended cooldown. This is and will be met with great dislike.

Exactly this!! The proposed change smacks so much of the way the vehicle nerf happened. Instead of taking the time to deal with the specific mechanics of a few problem aspects the quick and dirty hammer approach is taken. Take a break from PVDs and CCs and put the time in to doing this right instead.

theravenforce

As mentioned, all PVE Missions where a device is required to complete the mission (i.e. Rat Innoculation Potions, Bigfoot Cure injections, Transforming Crystals for Helmith missions, Bio-Electric Dampner for Karkaradon Missions etc) need to have revised or removed cooldowns (i.e. set to 1 second).

I think this is just a long standing headache for players as TTK has shortened in most cases since these missions were originally put together and people solo a lot more content that previous, having an 8-9 second cooldown which is further impacted if you accidentally change builds isn't great.


Furthermore, whilst this doesn't personally affect me, I can't help but wonder what this change will do to DPS/Tank builds or those who use build slots to run different versions of their character with gear etc.

I think PVDs should also be evaluated with this change as well, as if this affects all device bars, surely for those who use PVDs without the base power, its going to make using the PVDs unbearable if they are swapping to another build to use another set of devices.

nbkxs

This is meant to stop the people from using multiples of things like npg, and bypassing the CD. I messed w/it on PTS, and it's not terrible, as long as you make sure all of your devices that are cross-build stay in their slots.

warcanch

WHEN Before this change goes LIVE, it should address the cooldown of every device that is 2 minutes or longer.

This includes: Backup pets, Omega Destroid Stomp, Alien Crystal, LTS heal/energy potions, etc

I'd list more, but this post will either be ignored any ways or just out right deleted. (Yeah, I'm getting pretty disgusted about this particular issue ALWAYS getting deleted from the forums)

vonqball

If you are determined to do this, then you also need to adjust most device cooldown times to be about half what they currently are. The shorter CD devices are actually useful, but most of the longer CD devices are not even close to worth the wait.

You clearly don't see this because even recently added devices have insanely long CDs for the value they provide.
Abyssal Wave has a 2 minute CD. This is like an actual joke to people who play the game. In what reality is that the appropriate CD for this device? You are simply carrying on a tradition of devices being RP tools, not fun parts of builds. That is why meta builds use a very narrow set of devices which makes them look goofy, boring and lame.

nbkxs

I would concur w/that, if all of the devices that have these sorts of ridiculous CDs weren't terrible choices to begin with. Backups aren't worth the slot they occupy, stomp either, there are much better options for the heal if you want to use a heal device. Like the Healing device plus.

theravenforce

Any devices that are not shared between the builds will go on full cooldown, as if they were just equipped to the tray.

Out of all of them, I think this has to be the worst one I can imagine. In a game where we have access to multiple devices and its actually meant to be a positive if we have some variety of devices...I think this is going to present a huge problem if device cooldowns aren't heavily revised.

I would like to add the long since forgotten device type "Become Devices". as some of them have obnoxiously high cooldowns (Doomlord and Celestial comes to mind). (I think most are fine tbh)

monsterdaddy

Absolutely NOT!!! Horrible idea for little gain. WHY is this so important??? I can see very little benefit for anyone "exploiting" but a HUGE amount of HARM to players if you implementing this.

DO NOT DO THIS!

Unknown

This content has been removed.

stoopidme

It seems like quite a lot of effort is being made to make a change that no one is asking for, when several changes that have been requested for a long time and would take similar effort are being overlooked. I don't understand why this is being pushed so hard.

monsterdaddy

If you insist on ruining a very fun and high level aspect of this game with this change then you should unbind all bound devices like before when a major change to devices was made.

Again, this is just a change that isn't worthwhile to do and I am 100% against.

theravenforce

I do agree it would be nice to unbind a bunch of devices as a LOT of us will have many we could repurpose now

doggepope

Now that RavenForce mentions it, I agree. Unbind existing devices so we can make our own decisions on this. Something of similar help was done following the vehicle nerf, as I recall.

Personally? Device cooldowns should be lowered across the board.

To take a certain post, and make something more constructive out of it: devices are extra powers. They're better, even. You can 'retcon' them for free (ignoring the issue of needing to buy/farm/bind them), at will, and use them to extend the power pool of an established character, which is nice to have in a game where 3-4 of your slots are taken up by glorified passive abilities so that you can function. They also are worse. Numerically and cooldown-wise, for all their convenience they're less effective than the real thing. That should hold, but it should also be tweaked. As it stands right now, the primary result of this change will be driving players toward passives (and passive pets) simply for being zero-CD and no-fuss, while neglecting the issue where they're doing this because the majority of active devices are permitted to do one marginal thing every sixty seconds or worse. The pace of this game stopped being slow enough for that a long time ago.

Entire classes of device are rightly on track for shorter cooldowns already. I'm assuming the one minute cooldown seen on most event items was always reactive to the variety of situations that ended up motivating this change. Since the system is being tightened against undesired use cases, I'd like to take the opportunity to hopefully improve on the desired use case.

• Using Questionite and Drifter shop devices like NPG/Psionic Accelerator/Ice Grenades as a reference, the cooldown of damage and offensive utility devices should be tamped down. Preferably to 30 seconds, and wishfully even lower. PVDs as well, on the off-chance that somebody out there is using an unranked one. For the most part, power cooldowns go no higher than 15. As exchangeable powers, 30 fits nicely between opportunity and cost for the more impactful devices with high DPS or defense debuffs— bluntly speaking, it's not going to break the bank if people are allowed to use things like Totemic Helm or Corrosive Lash even on the same interval as Strafing Run, and Atomic Strike is not four times the value of Nuclear Shockwave or the same value as an Ultimate just because you can drag and drop it. . . there are even DPS devices (Abyssal Wave and Celestial Dragon's Breath) with longer cooldowns than Feral Rage, which is itself longer than most Ultimates. It's excessive. Heck, this way you might see more players using offensive devices because they fit, in casual play or otherwise, rather than carrying junk or empty bars on their way to the select few that can be used more than a handful of times per encounter. That feels like a positive thing.
• Relative to consumable heals' cooldown of 90 seconds, tamp down other heal/buff devices which are higher than 60 seconds to 60 seconds, excluding special ones* worthy of 3+ minutes. Including Become Celestial, that thing doesn't need to still be so precious. . .
  
• [ ed: Absorbing Crashsuit, Teleiosaurus Injection, or the recent Vapours of the Nether Realms don't weigh the same as a life-saving self-heal click like Mystical Ward/Rejuvenating Serum for having the same cooldown, because actual effect is much softer in nature. Charged Up is nice and all, but over 90 seconds you could fight halfway through a Cosmic, all the way through a Lair boss fight, out of numerous danger situations, and only be able to pick 0-1 opportunities to actually use the thing. That doesn't feel so good in the face of other options. ]
• I understand pet lag is something of a sticking point, but even as a sidekick enjoyer, I'm hard-pressed to justify giving them a spot once I'll be restricted to one chance every five minutes to enjoy them, fie on me if I equip a new thing or one of us dies early. Considering they can be difficult to keep alive outside legacy content and aren't really that strong to begin with, they should be cut down around 90 seconds to make losing them (you will lose them) less punitive. The toggle pets. . . eh, you know what? I can do without anything that doesn't come with a command bar.

*: Eruption, Necrullitic Elixir, the Lifetime heals, Amazing Grace/Experimental Artificial Life Injection I guess, and Phoenix Tear. Self-res powers are five minutes, sorry~ Up or down, something is going to change in that sphere eventually

godhandxiii

I'm 100% against this but if you're really set on doing this-

If you're doing this as a countermeasure against having more than the available device slots, a suggestion: Make this only take effect in combat. It'd still suck, especially for "Oh **** I need to swap" moments, but it'll suck less if you have different builds with different device loadouts for different situations that you pre-swap into.

One major complaint I've seen consistently when this change went up on live was waiting for vehicle cooldowns just for getting from point A to point B. I'd assume a lot of us players have this - a specific build slot only used for travel, with teleporters and vehicles in slot. Making things only go on cooldown during combat avoids this problem.

I'd also think a number of players also have a build slot dedicated for "fun" or other non-combat shenanigans. Keeping the cooldown to happen only during combat means that we can mess around with those devices while waiting for content to start and would be able to switch to a combat device loadout without any downtime.

vonqball

Words of wisdom from Dogge... if only someone has the good sense to listen

joshastarlight

Ok, I'm speaking from the perspective of someone who only plays as a DPS, so if I misrepresent something that applies to tanking or healing, please forgive me. That being said, devices should either complement your build, like NPG, which is a must-have for all melee builds due to its respectable damage, low activation time, and short cooldown, or perform a function that your build cannot, like Will of the Tiger Cub, which is the best way to apply the "Shredded" debuff with a single click, rather than requiring a full combo of certain skills.

When choosing a device to slot, you are faced with a question: "Should I have <device_name> equipped and used, or should I spend the activation time of that device on using a core skill of the build and slot passives and passive summons instead? Which option will benefit my damage output the most?" For the majority of devices, the latter option is the most optimal. Sure, we have some great devices, such as NPG, Pheromones, Passive Summons, Siphoning Nightmares, Therakiel's Dissonance, Will of the Tiger Cub, Shadow Pact, Soul Vortex, Psionic Accelerator, and a handful of others, but with the rest being as ineffective as they are, we end up using the same few sets of devices that apply to all builds, either for boss damage/debuffing or ad clearing. Frankly, I find it to be a total waste. There are so many cool devices with great VFX that I wish I could use, like the "Darkness Portal" from Bloodmoon, but then I end up asking myself: why would I spend 2 seconds charging a device that cannot crit, has subpar DPS, and requires killing ads to summon weak zombie pets that would instantly die anyway, when I could outperform its full output with a single use of my core skill?

Another topic, touched on by others, is the pet devices. There are only a few that are worth using: Pheromones and Passive Summons. Even then, Passive Summons are only somewhat valuable with certain builds, like PA, because PA toggles somewhat prevent the use of devices. As a result, Passive Summons often end up being "might as well put them there" devices.

The rest of the summoning devices are essentially useless, as they die almost immediately after being summoned, whether from bosses' AOEs or ads. After that, they go on a long cooldown, making it difficult to justify giving them a slot. I think all summoning devices should be reworked into constant toggles, like Pheromones or Passive Summons — most especially the Sidekicks, as they are the highest tier rewards of events and lockboxes and should reflect that.

abaddon

monsterdaddy wrote: »

If you insist on ruining a very fun and high level aspect of this game with this change then you should unbind all bound devices like before when a major change to devices was made.

This

miorum

kaiserin#0958 wrote: »

This change is being made to fix a variety of situations that allowed for players to bypass device cooldowns, as well as addressing the issue of players effectively having access to a larger tray of devices than the intended 5.

I think therein lies the biggest problem with the change - there are too many items listed as "Device" for only 5 intended slots.

The limited amount of space for a Device makes it so that a player must make an active choice. The game, however, has quite a few missions while have mission items taking up a Device slot - there is no real choice in the matter, the mission cannot continue otherwise.

Meanwhile, Power Replacement Devices got their own Device tray - because something which greatly, significantly alters a player's way of participating in the game-play is considered too impactful to compete with the existing 5 Device Tray slots.

Counter to that, Vehicles and Becomes are considered regular Devices, despite the fact those significantly alter a player's play-style.

As it is, the coming change feels like a blanket fix for "unintentional use of game mechanics" while at the same time the game's not clear at how the Device tray is actually intended to be used. IMO, that's what ought to be tackled.