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Josh Strife Hayes has done Champions Online!
sapphiechu
Posts: 272 Arc User
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I'm of the mind that their reviews are incredibly meaningful, because they're experiencing what every single new player in the game is forced to experience before they "get past the boring part" and "get to the good stuff" unless they're willing to blind-spend something like a hundred bucks on a game they haven't even really played. With good stuff meaning anything from the same monotonous level-40 SCR, GCR, Q and G grind, to actually having a freeform slot or three to use for things (or at least being in a position to unlock more good ATs) to being in a spot to shoot for costume unlocks that aren't just the random greens that drop from assorted mooks every now and then.
What they're experiencing is the filter that exists to try and keep as many new players out of the game as possible. So their assessment of said filter is incredibly important. After all, the more new players are prevented from playing, the less new potentially paying players we have to keep the game afloat.
I know personally, I spent the whole of Josh's video alternating between "oh my god, I know, right?!" and "oh sweet jesus you fell for (insert newbie trap here)" endlessly. The fact that he only got to level 15 (something that takes a more seasoned player a casual one or two hours, or even faster depending on what they're doing) over the course of... yeesh, going off snippets of Zone at the bottom left corner of his screen that I recognized because this game is that tiny, several days of play I want to say? Don't blame the player for not playing when the game doesn't want them to play. And the game really doesn't want people to play. At all. Even if them playing now means them spending money later. It just wants spending money now, spending money later, "and if you could just maybe not log in at all otherwise because your existence strains our servers, that would be great."
This is my cry for help
With Josh Strife Hayes, one of the things he considers important is the accessibility the game has from the point of view of a new player. There is very little chance that a brand new player is going to immediately throw down – what is it now, $25.00? – on a freeform slot when they don't know the mechanics of the game and need to learn good synergy and power-activation order. Archetypes are a good way to do that, and the ones that are given to a brand new player are a decent, if not exhaustive, cross-section of fairly typical super hero types.
JSH gives every game a fair shake, and in all honestly, I found is review to be, overall, a positive one. He recognized failings that a lot of us veteran players have known for ages, showed that we have a supportive community (Thanks, Alto! You represented the best of us!), and that while the game has always been something of the black sheep of Cryptic's stable, it's never been dead, and always seems to get new players. We might not keep most of those players, but I think that could be as much to with the potty mouths and mindless arguing that we get in Zone than it is to CO's admittedly dated design.
We still have the best superhero designer , and if nothing else, having people that just want to use the tailor to make different designs for drawing references, etc., is still a population that we should be welcoming. The newbies are our friends!
Anyone that argues "Oh, it gets good after 20-hours/40-hours/100-hours doesn't understand game design at all. If the first two hours of your game is crap, crap is all a new player is going to expect, and hiding the 'good stuff' behind a 20/30/40/100 hour grind is bad game design. CO's tutorial is, in my opinion, one of the best out there, even after 14 years! Sure, it's kinda dated, but while you are told now that it is a simulation, it's still the same mission: help the EMTs, find the cat, defend Champions HQ, SAVE THE WORLD! And in that short sequence of missions, all the basics are given to you.
In closing: Josh Strife Hayes approached the game openly, and gave it a good go. Remember that he is writing notes throughout his play time, unlike most of us that just play solidly, sometimes even rushing because we've done Save The Scientists 100 times already. He actually only officially plays for about eight hours total, not including his note-taking. If I remember rightly, he does state that at the end of his official play-through, he did play some more.
When i started and thanks to a friend that i played and level together as Radiant (horrible dps slow progress) i didnt suffer much. The tutorial invasion is agreat way and i like it, even the videos on Powerhouse are nice and explain basic stuuf good but after that you get thrown to a jungle in the middle of amazon and you expect to swim. If i ddint had my 2 friends here it will be a horrible thing to learn and discover basic stuff that all other people know by now after 10lvl and up.
Funny enouph the ingame tutorial is prety good but its hidden and all is in text.
IF the game had a nice web page tutorial and explained stuff there and i didnt had to run to a wall to find out would be great , also gear dropping is horrible as new player .... Radiant getting str or recovery stuff ye awesome isnt it.
One of the things i liked is doing events (Nightmare was my 1st one) was easy to score and complete even as 20lvl but again if i didnt had 2 friends il be lost on the quests which i never knew where to pick
So for me the most important thing is a proper tutorial for new players to guide them on their first steps of their character and if they like the game they can stay and throw money else they will gone before that it happens (i dislike other stuff in the game but isnt this thread for that).
> Every time someone does a review video about this game its not with a freeform character so I think his review and others are lacking the heart of the game. Their reviews are meaningless to me.
What a silly take, don't you need skill and knowledge to use a FF? [a novice won't have at start] You do know we got alot of options for powers, right? Heals, crowd control, debuffs, singles, and does, etc, Also being an FF is expensive. Global/Gold wise to the point it goes over Silver/F2P limit which is 500Gs by the way.
I have seen cases of people screwing up their builds aswell myself doing such its not that fun.
Why it's best to be a archetype first so you get the better idea of what you doing when you become a freeform later on.
That said, it's kinda disappointing he didn't touch on the Freeform system, since it's the game's main feature. Not even a mention, even when he's talking about the monetization. Was also curious what he would have done if he got to the Nemesis system.
Take a shot every type of comment going "I REMEMBER PLAYING THIS GAME", Alcohol poisoning
I finally watched fully the video after going back and forth, because you know... it's hard to watch someone playing a game for 10 hours when yourself have been playing this game for 13 years
And I'm a fan of Josh's video series of "Worst MMO", funnily I'm watching them during Long CO playing sessions! A lot of Hidden gems of games!
Very impressed that Josh went into CO without his negative experience with NWO which he made an entire video about how P2W it is!
That's pretty Positive think compared to Nerdslayer who just condemned the game just because it was a Cryptic game
JOSH! JOSH DONT DO THAT! JOOOOOSH
Don't pick Flight on a MELEE character!
RANK 1 FLIGHT THE ENTIRE VIDEO? This alone took 10 hours of your play time
"Powerhouse is an outdated mechanic when you can level up and skill up everywhere?" OH NO
I still don't get his distaste for the video tutorials in the PW!
I believe he didn't realize the Tutorial was an Epilogue
His view on the Star system and defiance of having to buy star refills was pretty funny. If only he new losing stars for dying is just a small penalty which is not even that important
If only he knew how useless Fusion is and the game used to have an actual Crafting system
JOSH! NO JOSH SERPENT LANTERN ISN'T DESIGNED FOR LOW LEVEL! JOSH! JOOOOOOSH
Going back and forth from Westside to Cybermind to Alerts to Serpent Lantern to Westside again gave me Wisplash
Kinda sad he didn't even got to level 20!
I'm really happy he came across players like me, who continue playing the game because they fully enjoy the Costumization aspect!
Now if only he brought Freeform instead of Archetypes
Not finding information for the game is pretty sad, We had 2 Player-run wikies and now they are both gone
I wonder if he checked the forums 🤔
Yes, I was having conniptions the moment I saw him pick flight on his melee character. I am of the firm belief that EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER should take Athletics as their first travel power. I don't care if your melee, ranged, mixed, harsh language: Athletics first (or if you want to look like a twit, Acrobatics, but some people actually like the Naruto-run). Even at level one, you have decent movement speed before the warm-up, can jump over obstructions like cars and other players/NPCs, and most importantly, can close the distance between yourself and the mook you just haymakered halfway across the damn fight-area. (PSA: For the love of all that is holy, stop taking haymaker and/or using it during alerts!)
At the end of the video, I got the feeling that Josh did enjoy his play-time, and knowing the dross he's played in the past, both ancient and modern, Champions came away looking pretty good, all things considered.
Josh mentioned that people warned him that picking the Dragon Spirit AT is a Beginners trap because its a Hybrid
but the true newbie trap was picking Flight as Melee!
Rank 1 Flight for 10 Hours
The Socrates Mission for the Cybermind Mission was the first trap! It really sidetracked him and he somehow ended up finding about Serpent Laternt
This mission is not for fresh, I only do it when i reach at least lvl 15+ or just straight up finishing Westside! Socrates is sending you to your death
I know westside is boring, but if he sticked with it until the end instead of jumping on Cybermind and Serpent Lantern, he could cover a lot of his AT's tracks
He did! 2-3 alerts
When he reached lvl 10 in westside he mentioned a UI Box appeared which brings him to a Mission Lair
At the end of the video he mentioned he started feeling dragged down on alerts because despite he was sidekicked to lvl 30, he felt useless! (He was missing so many of his Archetype's powers)
now, interesting calling the regular alerts lairs, since their difficulty is pretty casual! Technically yeah they are lairs
Stitch in Time, where unfortunately he died and asked in chat for REZ, but nobody revived him or replied!
Then he mention nobody talked during the entire alert neither stick around for chit chat
Now that made me sad
oh Josh... those alerts exist only to do the Dailies, get resources and the respectful resource boost
This reminded me of a different MMO he played (don't remember which one) where he QUEUED for team version of a Dungeon, but the Team Up started speed-running STRAIGHT to the final boss, without caring about fighting the mobs and living him behind!
Imagine if we didn't have MOB-gate on alerts and this happened to him here as well! (old Warlord comes in mind...)
Good question, can't tell if he utilized the block function mentioned it on tutorial!
Funnily the BLOCK tutorial was for the Qularr EGG BOMBS! He thought flying Qularr drone where part of the tutorial! Those were fighting the policemen and were dead once he got near them
Did he utilized his LUNGE? True true, the game gave him a positive first impression, but I wish he avoided some of things that dragged his experience down
Those alerts farming has become a repetitive chore for us after all! Alerts are nothing more than Disposable content!
Its most likely you gonna socialize and chit chat with friends if you do endgame lairs, than casual alerts with randos!
I still feel bad for him, not everyone is gonna have a Resurrection power, I used to have on my FF dps characters as an extra help, but even since I shifted into doing Solo content in QWZ I dropped it
I would really hope that the devs don't waste time on something like this. Not at all of interest to me. There are far more pressing things the game needs (like more devs creating/revamping things and more players spending money on it).
And take your Clickbait maleware links with you
This is a the second time a SPAM bot copied what I said to blend in with the forums
Big Kudos to Josh for complimenting the CO's graphic art style that holds up years later!
He knows what's up! Instead of being obsessed with Hyper Realistic Graphics with shades of Grey and Brown like a lot of Modern videogame companies are doing these days unfortunately!
As someone who grew up playing a lot of Cel-shaded and 2D pixel art games, feels good that there are still people who appreciate creative graphics instead of being a Graphic Junkies!
I HATE "All videogames need to have top notch Hyper-realistic graphics" Elitist snobs! This keeps the artstyle and make games blend together
This 100%
And the people replying saying it doesn't matter are just JSH fanboys. I get sick and tired of people always defending his half **** reviews. If his reviews are for the new player experience then all his videos should say so but they don't.
Uh.. what? How can free form be bad? No one thinks this. Please stop posting, you make no sense.
Funny thing is, Champions Online's "look" will age better than the so-called "better" graphics of current and future MMOs who think graphics will do the heavy lifting in keeping a game alive.
> As kinda new player that started at january of 2022 and still playing Hayes in his review was accurate on the perspective of a new player.
>
> When i started and thanks to a friend that i played and level together as Radiant (horrible dps slow progress) i didnt suffer much. The tutorial invasion is agreat way and i like it, even the videos on Powerhouse are nice and explain basic stuuf good but after that you get thrown to a jungle in the middle of amazon and you expect to swim. If i ddint had my 2 friends here it will be a horrible thing to learn and discover basic stuff that all other people know by now after 10lvl and up.
>
> Funny enouph the ingame tutorial is prety good but its hidden and all is in text.
> IF the game had a nice web page tutorial and explained stuff there and i didnt had to run to a wall to find out would be great , also gear dropping is horrible as new player .... Radiant getting str or recovery stuff ye awesome isnt it.
> One of the things i liked is doing events (Nightmare was my 1st one) was easy to score and complete even as 20lvl but again if i didnt had 2 friends il be lost on the quests which i never knew where to pick :(
>
> So for me the most important thing is a proper tutorial for new players to guide them on their first steps of their character and if they like the game they can stay and throw money else they will gone before that it happens (i dislike other stuff in the game but isnt this thread for that).
New'ish player here too. I absolutely agree with you on the gear side of things. So many drops, but it's rare that I get something that has my primary or secondary stats. Maybe I've just been really unlucky? I'm loving it so far. I had a few false starts with non-FF builds until I found something that gelled.
If you really unpack that logic, it suggests they feel or data has shown through analysis, that the average player at a given stage of their lifespan as a player, does not read those benefits and say, "Shut up and take my money."
Perhaps they want to remove that process of weighing the benefits against the cost, so that when someone decides they want it, for whatever reason, they just commit and find out what the bonus perks are, later.
This type of thing could greatly improve impulse buys among newer players, who they really do need to double down in every aspect of the game, get their comic book and RP friends on deck.
The problem they simply refuse to accept (whether they have arrived here yet or not), probably out of some respect for the past, or an inability to know how or where to start, is that when the average person who likes super heroes and comics, plays CO for the first time, they can't get passed the aesthetic of basically every single NPC character in the entire game, front to back, no exceptions. Everyone, everywhere, in every way possible, looks horrible. Of course I'm being hyperbolic so that anyone reading will understand... I know you don't mind 40% of them, but 90% of people won't, because they are poorly tossed together, being very mindful to never use or do too much so that the the costume library never stagnates so that no matter what you make, they look like or "rip off" some NPC in-world. But that has serious, serious impact on player reception. I know this, 100% because my attempts to get my super hero zealots friends on have all proven it. First thing is always, "What about DCUO? Is that still online?" And I have to explain how CO is literally everything DCUO couldn't have dreamed of being.
Gearbox needs to send a small team through the entire game, forcing them to see NPC after NPC and compare those drafts to player costumes using the same costume library until they all realize, "Our world looks like total, absolute bunk...but we can 150% fix any of it."
I can get my people through the AT selection menu, where you can see the heavily visible cringe wrench their facial expression like melting wax. I just say "don't mind those at all, they made them absolute unbearable crap so you'd have to use the huge costume maker."
That works. But when they get to westside and see not only the NPCs, but the enemies they have to grind, it's like "Yeeeeeah...I'll play Spiderman on console, bro."
I found his review of Champions to be a major fail. And his review of Neverwinter to totally miss the rampant problems NWO has and how Cryptic does not handle them.