Infernal ranged DPS

omnius

I'm in a bit of a quandary because the one thing this build lacks is a DPS boost. I'd really like to grab Toxic Nanites for it but something else needs to go. I'm considering tossing out my small heal ERush because I'm constantly getting a trickle heal from Guide on Wisp, and the healers always seem to be adept at keeping me topped up at cosmics, I have Resurgence, and a truck-load of heal packs. I have another DPS that doesn't have a small heal and I don't really miss it there either. Here's my current build

Infernal - Freeform (Ranged Damage)
v3.44:37

Super Stats
Level 6: Ego (Primary)
Level 10: Endurance (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Scourge (Con: 10, Ego: 10, Rec: 10, End: 8)
Level 6: Daredevil (Ego: 5, End: 5)
Level 9: Worldly (Ego: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 12: Amazing Stamina (Rec: 5, End: 5)
Level 15: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 18: Boundless Reserves (Con: 5, End: 5)
Level 21: Ascetic (Con: 5, Ego: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Infernal Bolts
Level 1: Infernal Blast (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Aspect of the Infernal
Level 8: Epidemic (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Mephitic
Level 14: Pestilence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Defile (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Endorphin Rush (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Will-o'-the-Wisp (Guide, Ghost Fire)
Level 26: Resurgence (Rank 2)
Level 29: Energy Shield (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Entrancing
Level 35: Corrosive Pit (Rank 2, Toxicity)
Level 38: Fiery Embrace
Adv. Points: 36/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Jet Boots (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Athletics

Specializations
Ego: Force of Will (2/2)
Ego: Insight (3/3)
Ego: Follow Through (3/3)
Ego: Sixth Sense (2/3)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: Find the Mark (3/3)
Guardian: The Best Defense (2/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
Mastery: Ego Mastery (1/1)

Devices

flowcyto

Yea, it sounds like you don't really have much use for ERush, so you can replace it for Toxic Nanites if you want a minor dps boost. Ofc, if you wanted a further dps boost, you could also drop Con SS for Dex SS, if you feel comfortable enough w/ the fights.

rhymere

Here's my build, Flow helped me with it. I use imbue for my DPS boost and it does pretty well:

Poison Metal - Freeform (Any / Multiple)
v3.44:37

Super Stats
Level 6: Ego (Primary)
Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: Quick Trigger (Dex: 12, Ego: 12)
Level 6: Ascetic (Con: 5, Ego: 5)
Level 9: Indomintable (Ego: 8)
Level 12: Daredevil (Ego: 5, End: 5)
Level 15: Agile (Dex: 8)
Level 18: Worldly (Ego: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 21: Academics (Int: 5, Ego: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Infernal Bolts
Level 1: Life Essence (Rank 2, Infernal Bond)
Level 6: Supernatural Power
Level 8: Pestilence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Epidemic (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Concentration
Level 17: Will-o'-the-Wisp (Guide, Ghost Fire)
Level 20: Defile (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Resurgence (Rank 2)
Level 26: Energy Shield (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Imbue (Rank 2)
Level 32: Entrancing
Level 35: Thundering Return
Level 38: Corrosive Pit (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Adv. Points: 36/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Blazing Speed (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Jet Boots (Rank 2, Rank 3)

Specializations
Ego: Force of Will (2/2)
Ego: Insight (3/3)
Ego: Follow Through (3/3)
Ego: Sixth Sense (2/3)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: Find the Mark (3/3)
Guardian: The Best Defense (2/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
Mastery: Ego Mastery (1/1)

Devices

omnius

@rhymere#3035 What HP are you sitting at without CON? I see you're not using Blast here, I'm not sure how I am with that because I've noticed that deadly poison stacks can occasionally drop off from bad RNG luck using Defile's 50% chance alone. Server is down for maint. so I can't remember whether or not Wisp applies Deadly Poison on primary target or just secondary targets

And for anyone, I'm also curious how well an INT build would work because Detct vuln is pretty wicked too. The question is whether it makes up for the loss of crit severity from the EGO tree? And would Defile spam be do-able with this? Could look something like this -

(Unnamed Build) - Freeform (Ranged Damage)
v3.44:37

Super Stats
Level 6: Intelligence (Primary)
Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Specialist (Dex: 10, Con: 10, Int: 8, Rec: 10)
Level 6: Covert Ops Training (Str: 3, Dex: 3, Con: 3, Int: 3)
Level 9: Negotiator (Int: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 12: Impresario (Dex: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 15: Coordinated (Dex: 5, Int: 5)
Level 18: Healthy Mind (Con: 5, Int: 5)
Level 21: Acrobat (Dex: 5, Con: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Infernal Bolts
Level 1: Pestilence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Life Essence (Rank 2, Infernal Bond)
Level 8: Will-o'-the-Wisp (Guide, Ghost Fire)
Level 11: Conjuring
Level 14: Epidemic (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Concentration
Level 20: Defile (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Resurgence (Rank 2)
Level 26: Entrancing
Level 29: Toxic Nanites (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Energy Shield (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Corrosive Pit (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 38: Fiery Embrace
Adv. Points: 36/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Jet Boots (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Athletics

Specializations
Intelligence: Enlightened (3/3)
Intelligence: Tactician (2/2)
Intelligence: Detect Vulnerability (3/3)
Intelligence: Expertise (2/2)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: Find the Mark (3/3)
Guardian: The Best Defense (2/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
Mastery: Intelligence Mastery (1/1)

Devices

rhymere

Wisp applies poison stacks. Also Defile hits up to 20k for me. Also Corrosive Pit helps a lot.

omnius

ok thanks, just wondering how your energy is with Defile spam? You're probably geared better than mine if it's an old character, I'm sitting in heroics and OSV stuff currently

flowcyto

Iirc, the Wisp doesn't apply Deadly (not Debilitating) Poison to the primary target, but yea I can't test it atm to verify. Affording Defile spam would mostly just come down to the gear and ally buffs you're getting, but it's def possible. You could still keep the blast (instead of Life Essence, since you said that you don't need any extra heals) for other things, like when not getting ally buffs and still struggling w/ energy when using Defile, or to use a quick tap to refresh poisons (it can also refresh Corrosive Pit's own Noxious Poison, iirc). However, you also don't really need the blast for single-target dps if you can manage Defile spam, so it's just up to you. Int PSS w/ DVuln is a strong option too, since Cosmics tend to have very high innate resists. Up to you if you want to take it, but if you've already geared for Ego then you can also do well by keeping that setup and saving on some resources.

omnius

OK just got back from the powerhouse and a few things - Wisp doesn't apply deadly poison which leads to the 2nd thing I noticed. Without Blast to refresh deadly poison, I was frequently at points where I dropped from having the full 5 stacks of it using Defile alone. Since I only need to quickly tap Blast once every 4 Defiles, intermittently operating below 5 stacks was a bigger dps loss then just spamming Defile (due to pestilence debuff scaling with # of poison stacks). There were some rotations where RNG was not nice at all and I actually dropped to 1 single deadly poison stack due to lack of the blast refresh, which was a loss of 8% resist debuff

Since I'm getting 2 debuff sources (Pestilence + Wisp's noxious poison) I'm tossing the INT PSS idea I was playing around with though. I'd rather keep the extra crit and severity from my existing build, and once my gear is better and I can squeeze some extra HP in, I'm going to replace CON with DEX.

The smaller heal power is still out though, going to replace that with Toxic Nanites and replaccing the Toxicity adv on CP with R3. I don't even know why I took that lol.

flowcyto

Yea, you didn't need the special adv on the Ult there. Also, Int PSS's DVuln isn't quite the same as normal -resist sources; it works similarly, but can only take resistances down to 0%, while most general -resist debuffs (like dmg-type debuffs) can take a resistance below 0% (and then you're actually dealing more dmg than the base dmg). So you can mix debuffs like Debilitating Poison w/ DVuln and still potentially get the full benefits of both (provided the target has high innate resistance, in light of DVuln). That said, keeping the Ego PSS approach sounds fine as well.

rhymere

omnius#0640 wrote: »

ok thanks, just wondering how your energy is with Defile spam? You're probably geared better than mine if it's an old character, I'm sitting in heroics and OSV stuff currently

Yea justice/dinstinguished/onslaught all ego. I can defile for days so definitely keep up that 5-stack on defile alone.

omnius

That's the part I don't get, when I was testing Defile alone (without blast to refresh) in the powerhouse, it wasn't able to consistently maintain 5 stacks no matter how often it was cast simply because of RNG. At full charge, Defile has a 50% chance of applying a stack of deadly poison. So if enough casts happened in a short time frame where that 50% failed due to bad luck, stacks definitely dropped off. At one point during my testing it even went down to one stack before RNG worked in my favor and stacks started building again.

After reading your post I went back to confirm against the regenerating test dummy. I cast 25 Defiles in a row against it on full charge. During that time, deadly poison stacks fluctuated mostly between 2-4 stacks, with a full 5 stacks only being present for about 15% of the total time spent casting, and at one point it lowered to a single stack once. Because of that, I'm losing some % per stack of the debuff I get from Pestilence.

omnius

Interesting build from a long time player in-game yesterday I'll run by you all. Appears set up for max damage output. The thing that stood out the most to me was his choice of Vindicator mastery instead of Ego mastery so not sure how that will pan out. I'll probably swap Ego Surge out for Conviction because it's very difficult and rare to get healers to top-up during Ape unless you're sitting in the melee mosh pit, where I HATE being with my ranged chars on that cosmic.

Infernal - Freeform (Ranged Damage)
v3.44:37

Super Stats
Level 6: Ego (Primary)
Level 10: Endurance (Secondary)
Level 15: Dexterity (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: Quick Trigger (Dex: 12, Ego: 12)
Level 6: Shooter (Dex: 5, Ego: 5)
Level 9: Accurate (Dex: 5, End: 5)
Level 12: Daredevil (Ego: 5, End: 5)
Level 15: Indomintable (Ego: 8)
Level 18: Agile (Dex: 8)
Level 21: Sniper Training (Dex: 3, Ego: 3, Pre: 3, End: 3)

Powers
Level 1: Infernal Bolts
Level 1: Infernal Blast (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Mephitic
Level 8: Epidemic (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Concentration
Level 14: Night Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Ego Surge (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Defile (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Will-o'-the-Wisp (Guide, Ghost Fire)
Level 26: Resurgence (Rank 2)
Level 29: Energy Shield (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Entrancing
Level 35: Corrosive Pit (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 38: Resurrection Serum
Adv. Points: 36/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Jet Boots (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Athletics

Specializations
Ego: Force of Will (2/2)
Ego: Insight (3/3)
Ego: Follow Through (3/3)
Ego: Sixth Sense (2/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (1/3)
Guardian: Locus (2/2)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: Find the Mark (3/3)
Guardian: The Best Defense (2/3)
Mastery: Vindicator Mastery (1/1)

Devices

spookyspectre

Yeah, I'd swap out Ego Surge as well. The Vindicator Mastery is only going to be effective when affected by someone with AoPM. That's pretty common at Cosmics and less so in other content. With Cosmics arguably being the more challenging content, it may be worthwhile to forgo Ego Mastery over Vindicator Mastery for the situational dps boost. Both masteries are fine for the build.

Resurrection Serum has a cooldown. You may want to swap that for another Ally Rez unless you prefer the theme.

I like Antagonize for it's speed boost at Cosmics but Energy Shield is also nice for it's extra 20% defense.

There are other options besides Night Warrior for your passive. Though Night Warrior, Pestilence, Enchanter, etc.. should all be fine. I'd have to test to see if NW does better than the others.

omnius

I didn't parse it but just blasting away at test dummies I didn't see much difference which is probably because they don't have the resists of cosmics. This is a little too specialized for my personal taste though so I think I'll keep pestilence and EGO mastery, and swap that rez for a self rez. Other than that, I don't think this dude is going to hit the #'s that my others get but that's fine. I don't need my entire stable to be meta and infernal is a very fun set

flowcyto

Yea, in terms of the build, it's not that different from a standard Infernal ranged dps, w/ a bit more optimization in having stuff like Dex SS'd, an Ult, and an AO (though it could also potentially use Toxic Nanites as another added dmg option). The main optimization w/ such builds is usually more in the gearing/stating of them, where you get high-end gear & mods, can stack the toggle/form stat (here, Ego) and do your best single-target rotation w/o energy issues (and w/o dying, ofc).

spookyspectre

Here's your original build with a couple of possible changes.

Poison Metal - Freeform (Any / Multiple)
v3.44:37

Super Stats
Level 6: Ego (Primary)
Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
Level 15: Endurance (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Psychokinetic (Dex: 10, Ego: 10, Rec: 10, End: 8)
Level 6: Accurate (Dex: 5, End: 5)
Level 9: Shooter (Dex: 5, Ego: 5)
Level 12: Daredevil (Ego: 5, End: 5)
Level 15: Impresario (Dex: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 18: Worldly (Ego: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 21: Sniper Training (Dex: 3, Ego: 3, Pre: 3, End: 3)

Powers
Level 1: Infernal Bolts
Level 1: Infernal Blast (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Mephitic
Level 8: Pestilence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Epidemic (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Aspect of the Infernal
Level 17: Will-o'-the-Wisp (Guide)
Level 20: Defile (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Resurgence (Rank 2)
Level 26: Energy Shield (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Blinding Light
Level 35: Thundering Return
Level 38: Corrosive Pit (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Adv. Points: 36/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Blazing Speed (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Jet Boots (Rank 2, Rank 3)

Specializations
Ego: Force of Will (2/2)
Ego: Insight (3/3)
Ego: Follow Through (3/3)
Ego: Sixth Sense (2/3)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: The Rush of Battle (2/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
Mastery: Ego Mastery (1/1)


I swapped out the Guardian specialization tree for Avenger. With Vindicator, For a crit focused DPS build, I usually take The Rush of Battle over Aggressive Stance unless my primary offense gear has +Offense as a bonus (Distinguished or the full Justice set). Also, with Aggressive Stance, you only get the bonus from gear. So if you have The Best Defense from the Guardian or Warden trees, the extra Offense doesn't get used in the calculation by Aggressive Stance. For me, The Rush of Battle is particularly nice with large AoEs like Epidemic for keeping a running HoT going as you plow through crowds of henchmen.

I also swapped Concentration for Aspect of the Infernal though you could go with Chilled Form for Dex stacking.

omnius

Thanks guys,

Flow, I did end up taking Toxic nanites instead of Ego Surge and dropped the self rez. I'm finding that with my primary end-game content being cosmics, I can just recover and run back (like basically everyone else does anyway lol) if there's no rez from others. Not sure how that would play out in lairs though. I know that if I ever get around to doing any it would pretty fairly seldom. And I took nanites near the end so I can swap cheap. It's unranked but I don't care, it's just a little extra free damage.

Spooky, That's damn near identical with what I ended up building except for the swap I told Flow about above. I ended up staying Guardicator though because with all dist gear I want every bit of crit chance I can get (Find the Mark) because the most I can get with 3x dist on PTS is about 32-33% (roughly) even with two gambler's slotted in the gloves. I didn't really like the blast-Defile-blast-Defile rotation aspect of Preemptive Strike last time I tried it. I may take another look at it on PTS in the future though with a parser running to see if that rotation makes up for the loss of Expose's crit chance bonus

flowcyto

Flow, I did end up taking Toxic nanites instead of Ego Surge and dropped the self rez. I'm finding that with my primary end-game content being cosmics, I can just recover and run back (like basically everyone else does anyway lol) if there's no rez from others. Not sure how that would play out in lairs though. I know that if I ever get around to doing any it would pretty fairly seldom. And I took nanites near the end so I can swap cheap. It's unranked but I don't care, it's just a little extra free damage.

Alright, sounds like a fine deal to me. Hope the build is doing well for you, regardless.

spookyspectre

omnius#0640 wrote: »

Thanks guys,

Spooky, That's damn near identical with what I ended up building except for the swap I told Flow about above. I ended up staying Guardicator though because with all dist gear I want every bit of crit chance I can get (Find the Mark) because the most I can get with 3x dist on PTS is about 32-33% (roughly) even with two gambler's slotted in the gloves. I didn't really like the blast-Defile-blast-Defile rotation aspect of Preemptive Strike last time I tried it. I may take another look at it on PTS in the future though with a parser running to see if that rotation makes up for the loss of Expose's crit chance bonus

Sounds good. Going with all Dist gear should work well with Aggressive Stance and The Best Defense, if you go with those. Proccing Find The Mark can be a little harder with longer charge up powers (Defile) but should still be do-able. Preemptive Strike is a pretty nice boost when you can tap your Blast and follow with a big charge up power but having a rotation you're happy with is most important.

The extra Offense from the Dist gear should also helps increase your DoT damage, which can't crit. I've heard the math on DoT damage isn't great but hey every little bit counts.

omnius

spookyspectre wrote: »

Sounds good. Going with all Dist gear should work well with Aggressive Stance and The Best Defense, if you go with those. Proccing Find The Mark can be a little harder with longer charge up powers (Defile) but should still be do-able. Preemptive Strike is a pretty nice boost when you can tap your Blast and follow with a big charge up power but having a rotation you're happy with is most important.

When I get some spare time I'm going to parse both of them. I'm really curious to see if both of them just wash each other because with the Avenger you're rotating between 1 blast taps and 1 Defile, whereas with guardicator you're spamming 4 Defiles > 1 blast tap. One has a crit bonus, the other has a base damage bonus. I have a sneaky suspicion they're going to end up very close but I'll have to see.

The extra Offense from the Dist gear should also helps increase your DoT damage, which can't crit. I've heard the math on DoT damage isn't great but hey every little bit counts.

Good point, I never even thought of that. No it's not great but Infernal isn't really a bursty crit set so it definitely needs those dots. It does have a couple nice bonuses though, one is that those dots keep ticking away during lava patches, blocks, etc whereas as some other powersets have to halt damage during those events. The other is that there's 2 sources of damage resist debuff from pestilence and Wisp. Hopefully I'll have 2/3 of my dist gear in a few more weeks!

One thing I'm not sure about how how safe Corrosive Pit is to use on Ape due to the hearts and it being a cone, and if there's a good position to be in to make sure that doesn't happen

spookyspectre

omnius#0640 wrote: »

One thing I'm not sure about how how safe Corrosive Pit is to use on Ape due to the hearts and it being a cone, and if there's a good position to be in to make sure that doesn't happen

It's generally pretty safe since you'll be targeting the Ape. As long as the hearts are spaced well away from the Ape, you'd need to have a heart between you and the Ape to hit one . If one or more of the hearts spawn too close to the Ape, your CP patch could hit it but odds are it's being hit by multiple AoEs at that point. Folks will usually try to destroy it quickly and then, hopefully, reposition the Ape.