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Strength Primary - Most benefit for...

dirtydwarf68dirtydwarf68 Posts: 45 Arc User
in Power Discussion
I am not very well versed in the defense diminishing returns and how or where it hits, so I was wondering if using the ST primary while dumping most your points in the CON secondary to take full advantage of Juggernaut gives the most benefit to Invulnerability or Defiance? Does it make a bigger difference or is it overkill at a certain point for either of these?

And The Best Defense, that is for gear only? or gear and mods? I assume Juggernaut is not calculated in it's Offense benefit?

Thanks all ;)

Comments

  • holloweaverholloweaver Posts: 588 Arc User
    I don't know the cryptic formulas either so I'll let the specialists to answer about the diminishing return on defense scaling from Juggernaut spe.

    About The Best Defense, it's your defense stat so anything that boost this stat will be converted with this spe.
    Juggernaut spe increases your defense stat so it'll be converted in offense with TBD spe.
  • spookyspectrespookyspectre Posts: 647 Arc User
    edited June 2020
    I'm not sure if Juggernaut has diminishing returns or just provides a consistent defense increase. Additional defense will benefit both Invulnerability and Defiance equally. Each Passive has it's own pros and cons that, I don't think, are offset either way by extra defense from Juggernaut. Defiance has to stack, so starting with a higher base defense seems advantageous for tanking.

    If you're tanking, especially Cosmics, I don't think you can reach overkill with defense and CON.

    If you're running a hybrid build with Invulnerability or Defiance but not tanking, then Juggernaut might be overkill. In that case, I might choose specs and stats for extra damage to compensate for not having an Offensive passive or role damage bonus.

    The Best Defense used to work off of any defense increase but was changed to be for gear only, including mods. I believe, Juggernaut defense increases should no longer convert to additional offense.
    Post edited by spookyspectre on
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,859 Arc User
    edited June 2020
    iirc, the basic dmgRes/defense formula is: x = 1/ (1 + y), where X is %final dmg taken, and Y is the sum of all +Defense and +dmgRes boosts (all in decimal form, converted from %; also, this ofc doesn't factor in things like dodge and dmg shields). So, although the defense stat itself doesn't DR, its effect on final dmg taken is reduced as you get more (ie. going from 0% to 100% total dmgRes reduces inc dmg by 50% [ie. halves dmg], but going from 100% to 200% total dmgRes reduces it only by another ~17% [to 1/3rd dmg taken], etc). Given how hard cosmics can hit, more defense is not necc a bad thing, but you also want to mix it w/ maxHP bonuses to get more mileage from it and boost your EHP further.

    And yea, The Best Defense only counts defense from gear now, which was part of making Guard/Wardicator builds more in line w/ other setups (other part was making a similar change to Vind's Aggressive Stance).
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • holloweaverholloweaver Posts: 588 Arc User
    That's not the information I'm geting ingame.
    I'm geting more offense from TBD with Juggernaut spe.
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,859 Arc User
    edited June 2020
    holloweaver wrote: »
    That's not the information I'm geting ingame.
    I'm geting more offense from TBD with Juggernaut spe.
    Well, this is not what I'm seeing in the PH atm. Going from Str PSS (+ Con SS) with 3/3 in Jugg and TBD from Warden, to the same setup, but with 3/3 in Overpower (instead of Jugg) doesn't change my total Offense after specing TBD (~194 Offense in both cases for my test). I also checked it w/ Guardian's TBD to make sure, and saw the same result. It's possible that there's some other source of Offense that you're getting from somewhere.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • holloweaverholloweaver Posts: 588 Arc User
    Yes I confirm that too but it's odd. I went to the PH a few weeks ago and I could get more offense with Juggernaut+TBD. I've noticed that one of my char seems bugged : when she enters some maps, the map will crash and I've this issue only with her so... I don't know.
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,859 Arc User
    edited June 2020
    You could report that character-related bug in-game (Help menu -> Report A Bug; can also request a GM to help you). It's prob not related to your character's specs, but who knows?
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • holloweaverholloweaver Posts: 588 Arc User
    It's a very old character that I was playing 4 years ago and there'd been so many updates/changes in the meantime.
    I'll do a filecheck and maybe even a retcon and hopefully it'll fix things.

    Anyway, now I've another question about TBD : am I correct to assume that TBD doesn't provide any +offense with Force of Will spe (from Presence tree) ?
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,859 Arc User
    edited June 2020
    Yea, it's the same thing there- Force of Will doesn't feed into TBD's Offense either now. It's a similar thing w/ specs like Fortified Gear as well.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • holloweaverholloweaver Posts: 588 Arc User
    I'll miss that. :/
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