Kiga Dog Tank Strategy

spinnytop

A strategy I recently started using for dog walking, i.e. the tank that pulls dogs off the CC and then holds aggro while dps pound on them. If there are multiple tanks present who can dog walk, all of them should be aggroing a dog. Why? Three reasons:

- One, it allows them to get a lead on aggro to ensure dps don't pull it off.
- Two, it means that if something goes wrong with the CCer, that's less dogs that are suddenly attacking the CCer, making it easier for them to recover.
- Three, if you have to transition into a zerg, this makes it much easier because multiple dogs are already being controlled by tanks.

The extra tanks will be easy to keep healed because they'll be suppressing dog howl stacks, and because the DPS are not attacking their dog yet they can block every bite if needed, greatly reducing the damage they take. Overall this strategy leads to a more stable phase 1, with minimal extra stress on the healers.

pantagruel01

To do that, either the tanks can grab aggro on CCed dogs (which most can't), or the dogs aren't being CCed (which increases the load on healers).

warcanch

Started using?

This is early dog meta: a tank for each dog. Eventually changed to just one tank on phase 1. Then just 1 tank on phase 2. Then no tanks needed for phase 2.

The more we refined CCing the more the load shifted to 1 tank for p1 who could interrupt a single howl and this tank wasn't needed for phase 2 so it was the MT. So, thanks for rediscovering the wheel.​​

warcanch

Just to be fair, I'm not poo-pooing the strategy.

However, I'd prefer to see extra tanks show up for Dino rather than Kiga. If someone caps out before getting to Dino then that makes the standing around time longer waiting for someone else to bring the needed role.​​

markhawkman

I've been part of a successful run where we had two relatively weak tanks do a V formation so we could split damage from the non-EB Kiga attacks. That's also a useful way to have more than one tank at Kiga.

pantagruel01

markhawkman wrote: »

I've been part of a successful run where we had two relatively weak tanks do a V formation so we could split damage from the non-EB Kiga attacks. That's also a useful way to have more than one tank at Kiga.

I recommend the weaker tank just standing to the side -- move away when he breathes (to avoid being hit by it), forward when he uses the bam attack.

warcanch

As the BAM attack is his only splittable/soakable attack. It centers on his target, hence why that tank is best being positioned as far back on the top platform as possible.​​

spinnytop

pantagruel01 wrote: »

To do that, either the tanks can grab aggro on CCed dogs (which most can't), or the dogs aren't being CCed (which increases the load on healers).

Not sure what you're basing any of that on.

I've been using this strategy and it doesn't increase the load on healers because so long as you keep interrupting the howls and blocking bites a tank barely needs any healing to stay up. If a tank doesn't think they're good enough to do this, then they can just not do the strategy, simple - though it's generally a good idea for them to give it a shot so they can practice, cause they'll never get better otherwise.

The dogs are being CC'd in this strategy, and tanks don't have to grab aggro on CC'd dogs, they simply pull them the way any dog walking tank would - hit the dog, interrupt the howl, and move them away.

warcanch wrote: »

Started using?

This is early dog meta: a tank for each dog. Eventually changed to just one tank on phase 1. Then just 1 tank on phase 2. Then no tanks needed for phase 2.

The more we refined CCing the more the load shifted to 1 tank for p1 who could interrupt a single howl and this tank wasn't needed for phase 2 so it was the MT. So, thanks for rediscovering the wheel.​​

You're talking about before we used CCers. My strategy uses a CCer. Which part are you unclear about?

warcanch

As usual, nothing unclear on my end. Only yours.

I'd try to explain it to you but you seem to purposefully misunderstand something and, just as purposefully, turn it back on the other person.​​

markhawkman

Given how rarely the current "ideal" strategy actually gets used properly... Multi-tanking happens because multiple dogs are active and multiple tanks are getting chewed on. DPS just shoots things until they die.

pantagruel01

spinnytop wrote: »

pantagruel01 wrote: »

To do that, either the tanks can grab aggro on CCed dogs (which most can't), or the dogs aren't being CCed (which increases the load on healers).

Not sure what you're basing any of that on.

I've been using this strategy and it doesn't increase the load on healers because so long as you keep interrupting the howls and blocking bites a tank barely needs any healing to stay up.

Any non-zero amount of healing is more than is needed when the CCer is holding them.

spinnytop wrote: »

If a tank doesn't think they're good enough to do this, then they can just not do the strategy, simple - though it's generally a good idea for them to give it a shot so they can practice, cause they'll never get better otherwise.

The dogs are being CC'd in this strategy, and tanks don't have to grab aggro on CC'd dogs, they simply pull them the way any dog walking tank would - hit the dog, interrupt the howl, and move them away.

i.e. the dogs aren't being CCed. Which means you now have two tanks trying to manage their dogs, and thus twice as many chances to screw up interrupting a howl.

The basic problem with your theory is that phase 1 only goes unstable when people are screwing up, and you're just introducing more opportunities for people to screw up. The people who might need a strategy like this are also the people who can't execute it.

lezard21

There's never a shortage of tanks at kiga.

There is a shortage of tanks that actually want to contribute to the fight in a helpful way.

I've lost count of the times either the main tank or a DPS has had to pull for the CC for p2 when there were other tanks available to do so, and that particular task requires neither threat, nor interrupt nor any meaningful skill. Just stand in one spot and block. Yet it seems too much to ask from some vOv​​

spinnytop

pantagruel01 wrote: »

Any non-zero amount of healing is more than is needed when the CCer is holding them.

The amount of healing required when the CC messes up and dogs get loose sky rockets, unless tanks are already controlling multiple dogs. This strategy provides that, it's been proven in practice. Your mindset only works in a universe where everything always goes perfectly, but that's not realistic.

pantagruel01 wrote: »

i.e. the dogs aren't being CCed. Which means you now have two tanks trying to manage their dogs, and thus twice as many chances to screw up interrupting a howl.

The basic problem with your theory is that phase 1 only goes unstable when people are screwing up, and you're just introducing more opportunities for people to screw up. The people who might need a strategy like this are also the people who can't execute it.

The dogs are being CC'd, that's exactly what happens when the strategy is executed, you can't dispute that. Trying only means you don't understand the strategy.

Screwing up happens, good that you've acknowledged that now. This strategy makes screw ups less likely to end in failure. Considering how much you people complain when things go south, you should be enthusiastic about strategies that do that.

Btw, I didn't post this strategy looking for approval, I already know it works and will continue to implement it. Other people can do it if they want, or not, I don't really care. This is primarily here so I can show it to people who are confused about what's going on. Thanks for your thoughts tho!

spinnytop

lezard21 wrote: »

There's never a shortage of tanks at kiga.

There is a shortage of tanks that actually want to contribute to the fight in a helpful way.

I've lost count of the times either the main tank or a DPS has had to pull for the CC for p2 when there were other tanks available to do so, and that particular task requires neither threat, nor interrupt nor any meaningful skill. Just stand in one spot and block. Yet it seems too much to ask from some vOv​​

True that. One thing that also hurts is how certain people never want to try anything new and better s( ^ o ^ )z

warcanch

spinnytop wrote: »

lezard21 wrote: »

There's never a shortage of tanks at kiga.

There is a shortage of tanks that actually want to contribute to the fight in a helpful way.

I've lost count of the times either the main tank or a DPS has had to pull for the CC for p2 when there were other tanks available to do so, and that particular task requires neither threat, nor interrupt nor any meaningful skill. Just stand in one spot and block. Yet it seems too much to ask from some vOv​​

True that. One thing that also hurts is how certain people never want to try anything new and better s( ^ o ^ )z

Something new? Yeah, i don't mind trying out something different. After all, that's how we usually "refine" things into their "current" strategy.

Better? Not proven to be better. The current meta is the "better": 1 cc pulls all dogs; 1 tank pulls one dog, dps hammers this dog, tank interrupts the howl. rinse repeat.

Alternate? Contingency? Ok.

pantagruel01

spinnytop wrote: »

pantagruel01 wrote: »

i.e. the dogs aren't being CCed. Which means you now have two tanks trying to manage their dogs, and thus twice as many chances to screw up interrupting a howl.

The basic problem with your theory is that phase 1 only goes unstable when people are screwing up, and you're just introducing more opportunities for people to screw up. The people who might need a strategy like this are also the people who can't execute it.

The dogs are being CC'd, that's exactly what happens when the strategy is executed, you can't dispute that.

Yes I can. Most tanks are incapable of holding aggro on a sleeping dog, so if they're tanking the dog, the dog is not asleep.

warcanch

pantagruel01 wrote: »

spinnytop wrote: »

pantagruel01 wrote: »

i.e. the dogs aren't being CCed. Which means you now have two tanks trying to manage their dogs, and thus twice as many chances to screw up interrupting a howl.

The basic problem with your theory is that phase 1 only goes unstable when people are screwing up, and you're just introducing more opportunities for people to screw up. The people who might need a strategy like this are also the people who can't execute it.

The dogs are being CC'd, that's exactly what happens when the strategy is executed, you can't dispute that.

Yes I can. Most tanks are incapable of holding aggro on a sleeping dog, so if they're tanking the dog, the dog is not asleep.

Wellll, I've certainly seen, at times, my sleeping dogs having aggro on players other than my CCer. So, technically, that other player had aggro AND the dog was asleep. Not sure how that helps anything, though.

Frankly, I'd love the Devs take back some of the hyperactivity they added to the dogs. Additionally, I thought snares and roots were supposed to work on them, as long as they weren't under attack or had some resistant stacks. I hate seeing my dogs RUN away from my CCer when I have applied, and can see the debuff on them, Entangling Mesh.​​

lezard21

The hyper dog was introduced to fix dog pathing so that they wouldn't get stuck or late dog too often.

​​

pantagruel01

warcanch wrote: »

Wellll, I've certainly seen, at times, my sleeping dogs having aggro on players other than my CCer.

Well, "Healers should be prepared to tank all the dogs that love them" is an option, but not exactly a helpful one. It's certainly possible to get aggro on dogs without breaking sleep, it just uses tools most tanks don't have.

spinnytop

pantagruel01 wrote: »

Yes I can. Most tanks are incapable of holding aggro on a sleeping dog, so if they're tanking the dog, the dog is not asleep.

There's 4 dogs, not 1.

pantagruel01

spinnytop wrote: »

There's 4 dogs, not 1.

Your proposal is to tank dogs that would otherwise be asleep; obviously there needs to be a tank on whichever dog is currently being killed.

spinnytop

Yeah, duh. I didn't write anywhere "there is no longer a tank on the dog currently being dps'd", so why are you even debating that?