Ebon Ruin fails to get Block-Cancelled and Delays/Lags block activation

avianos

Following this thread, I'm still searching what causing my Darkness and Warlock builds' block to fail protecting them by Cosmics AOES

So it turns out, Ebon Ruin's activation time is wonky and doesn't get properly cancelled by Blocking

[GIF FILE]

In this whole mess only 2-3 times Ebon Ruin got successfully Block-Cancelled

Shorter version


100feet range as well

only 1 successfully Block-Cancel

I did this with both Gamepad and Keyboard+Mouse and I still getting failled interuptions

Tested with Fireball and Force Cascade, those powers work perfectly with Block-Cancel

So what was causing me to fail Blocks In Dinos' AOE CC DOMES? This ​​

spinnytop

avianos wrote: »

So what was causing me to fail Blocks In Dinos' AOE CC DOMES? This ​​

When I tested this, block did successfully activate. The problem isn't that block isn't activating, it's that ebon ruin is being cast despite block activating when normally it should get interrupted. Seems exploitable.

avianos

Once again, I tested it multiple times and I got more failed cancellations both Gamepad and Keyboard/Mouse

There is no benefit from this whatsoever, if anything it also delays the BLOCK's Activation Benefits meaning I'm taking full damage, knocked and get CCed from cosmics AoE's attacks (6000+ damage while blocking from Qwyjibo... yay) almost like im not blocking at all

Consider Ebon Ruin got revamped and changed so many times, something screwed it up
also it's not the only power that has this bug, other powers cannot be Block-Cancelled as well and deserve a list

and the more I'm using my FF builds with darkness powers the more bugs i find
Bug: Spirit Reverberation gives other players with Spirit Reverberation energy as well! Energy stack with multiple SB users​​

pantagruel01

spinnytop wrote: »

avianos wrote: »

So what was causing me to fail Blocks In Dinos' AOE CC DOMES? This ​​

When I tested this, block did successfully activate. The problem isn't that block isn't activating, it's that ebon ruin is being cast despite block activating when normally it should get interrupted. Seems exploitable.

Well, not necessarily. If a power isn't block cancelable, block activates when the power finishes (i.e. your block is put on the power queue as the next power). This generally appears as laggy blocking. There are also some powers that have glitchy cancelation (for example, if you block-cancel force cascade at the right time, you get a cascade that does knockback but no damage).

avianos

THANK YOU! And yes Force Cascade example is also true, among other knock powers can confirm from personal experience

Here is another Gif in Combat Training Room! Keep an eye on the Red damage recieved and when Tap Ebon Ruin and trying to Block-cancel

Now apply this Block-Delay on cosmics and see how worse it goes

So yeah, Ebon Ruin delays the Block activation as well​​

nbkxs

This has been a huge problem for ages, and it makes dino almost unplayable on a darkness character. I've let them know about this for ages, and ages; I don't know what else to do about it.

spinnytop

Thing is, I use my AoED darkness character on dino more than any other cosmic, and I've never had this issue. I think I would have noticed if I was frequently unable to block dino aoes. Maybe I'm just so fast on the block button that I can overpower it o3o Avi message me in game later I have an idea for a good way to actually test this.

EDIT - just took my ER toon to Dino to make sure this wasn't something that popped up recently and only missed 1 block the whole time, constantly using ER; certainly not "unplayable". I do notice that if I tap-spam ER and tap-spam block at the same time repeatedly it won't block everything coming at me, so there is something going on with the taps, but interrupting charges works perfectly. I don't think this is what's causing you to miss blocks, unless you're tap-spamming ER at cosmics... is that what you're doing? n_n

nbkxs

Just normal rotation, miss 99% of the blocks on all of the CC effects.

avianos

Full Charge rotation here as well, Tap Blast -> Full charged Ebon Ruin
and in before you say the blast is the issue, the blast works perfectly with block timing
Energy Builder is always off

Spinny there is a serious problem here and other players confirmed that they experience it too and it was brought into light the power cause Block-Delay
Just because you cannot reproduce it for whatever reasons, doesn't mean it doesn't exist...​​

warcanch

For powers requiring a chargeup or maintain, I always use the "powertrayexec (powerslot-1) 1" keybind.

That said, I guarantee if you use EB Annihilation and try to block during the chargeup, your block doesn't interrupt the power and become active. This has faceplanted me enough at dino or ape that I will only use that power when I KNOW "the big hit" isn't in rotation next.

I have not checked this out in a while as I haven't played my TK tank in a while. But, Kaizerin typically said she can't reproduce it, in the past.​​

avianos

Well now im going to be extra cautius if I ever make a TK Tank with melee blades...

Interesting enough, my other experience with Block-Delay powers is with Ball Lightning on 2 Tanks and my DPS!
Since there was a delay with the summoning and blocking I would always get bitten in cosmics

I always thought because this power is tagged as Psedo pet summon, but I see we are into something​​

spinnytop

avianos wrote: »

Full Charge rotation here as well, Tap Blast -> Full charged Ebon Ruin
and in before you say the blast is the issue, the blast works perfectly with block timing
Energy Builder is always off

Spinny there is a serious problem here and other players confirmed that they experience it too and it was brought into light the power cause Block-Delay
Just because you cannot reproduce it for whatever reasons, doesn't mean it doesn't exist...​​

I'll hop into the PH right now and get some video of me blocking while charging. Let's see how it goes.

avianos

spinnytop wrote: »

I'll hop into the PH right now and get some video of me blocking while charging. Let's see how it goes.

Let me guess, the video will show that you somehow don't experience that issue and this will be another case of "This bug doesn't happen to me, the power is working as intended"

Despite the fact I captured GIF showing the issue myself and people posting that there is indeed an issue here...

Whatever it goes, it won't erase that this problem does EXISTS!
I don't understand how you are unable to replicate it so far, are you sure you are not using commands already?​​

spinnytop

https://youtu.be/wCZb5mOxNQU

Block cancelling worked every time, no delay. It's time to start looking for a different explanation.

The delay on taps I can confirm, but as you can see there is no delay on block-cancelling charges. This is exactly how it went at dino as well, which means the knock/stun resistance is kicking in on time as well.

avianos

... Exactly as expected Foxi!
How the hell you cannot reproduce this bug is beyond me
I think we already pinpointed the explanation, especially after nbkxs also confirmed they are having the same issues with Dino

Once again this doesn't Erase the fact that there is an issue, both tap, half charge and fully charge, the second gif I posted was half charge-cancel attempt as well 👏


@kaizerin please Investigate this
I'm running out of patience​​

spinnytop

avianos wrote: »

especially after nbkxs also confirmed they are having the same issues with Dino​​

I don't think we can take the claim of missing 99% of blocks seriously...

also that second gif doesn't show you taking incoming hits, so for all we know the only thing happening there is that the vfx aren't kicking in right away. You'll notice in my video that the animation for ER happens and then the block animation/vfx kick in, but the mechanical blocking occurs right away.

jaazaniah1

Huh? I don't recall ever having a problem blocking on my Darkness ER build at dino. I'll have to give it a try again.

nbkxs

I'll go to the next dino, and check how many times I miss it; I usually get so pissed off by it, that I just switch to shade storm, or switch character in the middle of it. Note: this is the only power that I notice this on, none of my other charges seem to have this problem; I've heard defile also suffers from the ruin stuff, but I don't have a character that uses that one.

avianos

Why am I starting to suspect that this bug only occurs with GAMEPAD users and that's why Spinny cannot replicate because he is using Keyboard? 🤔

Perhaps ebon ruin's value weren't optimize correctly with Gamepads

i never had an issue Block-cancelling Defile, Fireball and Force Cascade in Dino
and testing my Defile character so far in PH, i don't have that issue​​

avianos

nbkxs wrote: »

I'll go to the next dino, and check how many times I miss it; I usually get so pissed off by it, that I just switch to shade storm, or switch character in the middle of it. Note: this is the only power that I notice this on, none of my other charges seem to have this problem; I've heard defile also suffers from the ruin stuff, but I don't have a character that uses that one.

Defile block-cancels perfectly
It even cancels on time when the visual attacks get executed before hitting the target

see? no damage AND STILL using Gamepad​​

spinnytop

Now we might be getting somewhere o3o

flowcyto

Yea, I'm beginning to think that the block cancel window is still there for ERuin- it's just narrower than for other powers, and possibly due to block not taking the priority it normally should (I'm using a mouse & keyboard and still seeing this). The point about the issue also being applicable to Ball Lit is interesting, since ER at one point summoned a shadow, yea? This isn't just a summoned entity thing, though, as while I'm also getting the problem when using Ball Lit, Strafe Run, or Dust Devil, I'm not getting it for things like Firesnake, Flashfire, Collective Will, or Wall of Ice (Summon Shadows itself also seems to be fine there). It's just weird all around..

(and I'm also not getting it for TK's EBA atm, though in the past EBA had a longer activation time that made it feel a bit weird to use)

nbkxs

It could be related to that? Some sort of delay applying to further activations whilst the power makes room to summon shadows, even if you don't have that advant? Either way, I just did two dinos on my darkness char, and it was a complete nightmare, three times I got knocked by the baby's jump when I was clearly long blocking it after a ruin, alley-oop'd into the hold from the big one, then followed up by a spiking from the big one, killing me. Then on the second one, I didn't get combo-aoe'd, but I did get knocked 6 times from both of them when I was long, clearly blocking; spiked by the big one 3 times when I was clearly blocking.

So, it is definitely a problem.

I haven't noticed this problem on my lightning char- she's using hurricane w/ball lightning bound to that, and same with lightning arc. But I've never had the 'I can't block the aoes' problem at dino at all when using her.

flowcyto

nbkxs wrote: »

I haven't noticed this problem on my lightning char- she's using hurricane w/ball lightning bound to that, and same with lightning arc. But I've never had the 'I can't block the aoes' problem at dino at all when using her.

Well, Ball Lit is instant and on a cd, so it's much less likely you'd run into it, if so. But on the PTS I'm also seeing the issue crop up w/ Ball Lit. It's even easier to tell if the block cancel worked or was delayed cause if the former then the power doesn't go on cd nor get summoned.

avianos

More Gifs for where this bugs hurts the most, DINO
This is where Ebon Ruin hurts the most
Ignores Block Cancel -> Lags Block -> Cause Block's effects to fail to apply against the CC
KEEP IN MIND, Dino's CC only apply when they stomp both their feet, there is a specific Timeframe, it doesnt apply for the whole duration! So once you block that part you can get back at attacking even with the DOME Visuals still be up! Something I learned from tanking Dino a lot
I'm used to the Timeframe on the CC

I have been playing cosmics for years, as multiple tanks, DPS and healers and this issue only happens to my 2 Ebon Ruin users!
This period im farming cosmics with 5 different characters, only those two have this issue

flowcyto wrote: »

Yea, I'm beginning to think that the block cancel window is still there for ERuin- it's just narrower than for other powers, and possibly due to block not taking the priority it normally should (I'm using a mouse & keyboard and still seeing this). The point about the issue also being applicable to Ball Lit is interesting, since ER at one point summoned a shadow, yea? This isn't just a summoned entity thing, though, as while I'm also getting the problem when using Ball Lit, Strafe Run, or Dust Devil, I'm not getting it for things like Firesnake, Flashfire, Collective Will, or Wall of Ice (Summon Shadows itself also seems to be fine there). It's just weird all around..)

This is also something I considered, the Pet Summon from the old revamp of the power may still Linger in the Power's code even after the removal​​

spinnytop

So the controller theory is out. What else could it be? You're using Rank 3 of it right? If you're using the Nictophobia advantage that could be it, since I don't use that.

avianos

spinnytop wrote: »

So the controller theory is out. What else could it be? You're using Rank 3 of it right? If you're using the Nictophobia advantage that could be it, since I don't use that.

What you don't want that 30+% damage boost against fear for for viable DPS? :P

I just tested it an all Ranks and ADVs, still the same issue, and I was hoping that would be the cause​​

nbkxs

I wonder if it's latency? But I was using my lightning char to tank viko a lot recently, and I definitely noticed it on the ball lightning now. It's not as easy to notice as it is with ruin, but it is definitely there, for sure.

avianos

IT'S FIXED IN PTS NOW \o/

Ebon Ruin: Fixed a bug where this power had a very small window to block cancel it.

Testing it on PTS right now, it works perfectly in all ranks, thank you Kaiserin! ​​

spinnytop

Well the taps are fixed, but cancelling charges on pts works exactly like it does on live ( after all, the window for cancelling a charge is the entire cast bar, not exactly small ). We'll see if your 90% fail rates shoot up to 100% success when this goes live :P

Incidentally, I just wanted to make sure you guys were aware of this: You know you can press block while holding down the button for ER and it will cancel it right? You don't have to let go of ER first.

flowcyto

The issue was also applicable when charging ERuin; other charged powers had more lenient windows when canceling a charge, and didn't delay your block for the cast anim if you were too late. The latter part was actually prob causing most of the grief, in practice, as a shorter cancel window alone just means ER would fire on a cancel when it shouldn't- but that seems to have been fixed too. The effect was prob just worse for taps cause latency/delays affects it even more then, relatively. Testing it on the PTS, and canceling ER seems to be in line w/ that for taps or charges of other charged powers, which is nice. If people still fail w/ block tests when using it, then well.. that's just on them I guess.

avianos

spinnytop wrote: »

Incidentally, I just wanted to make sure you guys were aware of this: You know you can press block while holding down the button for ER and it will cancel it right? You don't have to let go of ER first.

This works only on Keyboard, not on Gamepads where you have to hold L2+R2 Triggers to block
if you try this on gamepad while charging ebon ruin, you will perform other powers since L1, L2 and R2 works as expansion for the power select

Anyway, now the issue is fixed and I can feel the huge different with the patch​​

spinnytop

avianos wrote: »

spinnytop wrote: »

Incidentally, I just wanted to make sure you guys were aware of this: You know you can press block while holding down the button for ER and it will cancel it right? You don't have to let go of ER first.

This works only on Keyboard, not on Gamepads where you have to hold L2+R2 Triggers to block
if you try this on gamepad while charging ebon ruin, you will perform other powers since L1, L2 and R2 works as expansion for the power select

Anyway, now the issue is fixed and I can feel the huge different with the patch​​

We found the reason why it was affecting you and not me. Maybe if you hadn't been so stubborn we would have gotten here sooner o3o

avianos

spinnytop wrote: »

We found the reason why it was affecting you and not me. Maybe if you hadn't been so stubborn we would have gotten here sooner o3o

IT'S-IT'S NOT LIKE I LIKE YOU OR ANYTHING B-BAKA ​​