Archetype Tier Lists

nacito

I'm going to need everyone's help on this matter, here's how it's going to work:

• I'll split the lists on 3 categories: Tanks, Damage and Support.
• Each category will have their own subcategories.
• There's gonna be a 4th category, PvP, this one will not have subcategories yet.
• Each subcategory will have a main goal that will serve as a criteria to rank the archetypes in them.
• Then each subcategory is going to have a list, depending on the main goal of these subcategories.
• These lists aren't tied to the role of the archetypes, since there's also a lot of hybrid ATs, and some that have role locked because of being an archetype can also perform good in another role.
• Consider that there's some free archetypes, and some that can be unlock-able through events, these will be colored differently in each list.
• If an archetype is not put in the list, assume it's either a D tier or it wasn't tried before under such category.
• I sure hope this gets people's attention enough so they can show us where to put every AT in all the lists.
• I also hope this is going to be useful for people in the future ni order to know what to choose when they're picking up archetypes.
• I created this template to make the lists fancier and easier to make.

Here's what each tier means:
S: Best, compared to a free form and the rest of the ATs (considering that ATs have less choices and powers, this tier is for those ATs that can achieve a level of objective accomplishment similar to a FF).
A: Good, lacks powers to achieve their objectives easier, often these problems are solved with devices.
B: Ok, but lacks some of the minor objectives, and even with devices they put out some troubles like, energy management.
C: Lackluster, they need a lot of job, time and resources in order to complete just their key objective (tank, damage or support), may have some energy or survivability issues.
D: Bad, they don't accomplish any of the objectives, and there's no way they can.

This is the color legend:

• This Archetype is free.
• This Archetype is available through certain events.
• This archetype is only available through Zen store or Gold status account.

Without anything further to do, let's get started:

TANK
These archetypes are known for their toughness and endurance (the real definition, not the stat), things to consider are the kind of gameplay, either melee or ranged. These are split in 2 subcategories:

Main Tanks:
The Main goal of these archetypes is to withstand big chunks of damage at a time, they have a big health pool and have the most potential defense and/or dodge chance of any archetype. This play-style is usually seen more in melee with single target powers than ranged.

S: ~
A: The Glacier, The Behemoth, The Rockstar, The Master
B: ~
C: The Mountain, The Invincible
D: The Samurai, The Savage, The Impulse, The Specialist, The Dragon Spirit

Off-Tanks:
These Archetypes are durable, but their main goal is to attract and withstand big groups of enemies, and recover or heal/shield every tiny bit of damage they can get, these are also very popular among people that want a character that can solo "most" of the actual content in the game. Usually a ranged with AoEs play style has more benefit than a melee here.

S: The Master
A: The Glacier, The Invincible, The Samurai, The Savage, The Impulse, The Witch
B: The Dragon Spirit, The Behemoth, The Rockstar, The Mountain
C: The Specialist
D: ~

DAMAGE
Also known as "DPS", these archetypes are known for their huge output damage in game, things to be considered here are the speed at which these ATs can clean up a group of enemies (AoE) and the speed they can lower a boss' HP bar (Single target), as well if they are ranged or melee. They are be split in 2 subcategories:

Focused Strikes:
Single target dps. Most useful for efficiently melting bosses in situations where you have a tank.

S:
A:
B:
C:
D:

Mass Destruction:
General blowing up everything in sight; strong area damage, generally wants a bit of durability as aggro control cannot be guaranteed. Somewhat limited in endgame content but quite useful in lower end content, including alert farming, low level lairs, etc.

S:
A:
B:
C:
D:

SUPPORT
They aren't just your usual medic/angel/phoenix archetype, they allow the rest of the heroes succeed in their tasks by aiding them in all sorts of different ways, like buffing heroes with auras, or by either de-buffing their enemies. they are split in 3 categories:

Healers:
These archetypes help their fellow heroes by healing and/or reviving mostly, things to be considered are the quality of the healing; if it's AoE or single target, range on the heals, etc. It's also considering survivability; self heals and resurrection, a healer can't heal good if is dead.

S: ~
A: ~
B: The Mind, The Blazing, The Witch, The Radiant
C: The Inventor, The Grimoire
D: The Impulse, The Void

Crowd Controllers:
These archetypes are considered to be really useful in groups of mobs or certain situations in the highest difficulty parts of the game, they weaken their enemies by CCing them, by means of sleep, stun, paralyze, root, etc, effectively stopping them for taking any sort of action. Like healers, a CC must have some sort of survivability; or self resurrection.

S: ~
A: The Witch, The Mind
B: The Impulse
C: The Radiant, The Grimoire, The Blazing
D: The Void, The Inventor

Summoners:
These archetypes are known for being in charge of an army of pets, often known as "petmasters", these archetypes are also popular for playing on solo against "most" of the content in-game.

S: ~
A: ~
B: The Inventor
C: The Void, The Mind
D: The Impulse, The Grimoire, The Blazing, The Radiant, The Witch

PvP
These archetypes are ranked here by their usefulness in duels or team duels.

S:
A:
B:
C:
D:​​

zamuelpwe

Variance of use is an important thing to bring up. I want to say ease of use...but it's not always an ease/difficulty curve. Since we're on Tanks, we can look at the difference between the two free Tank ATs. Glacier is better at surviving multiple small hits so it tends to be better at leveling while the Behemoth is better at big hits so it tends to be better against end game bosses.

EDIT: You added more since I started typing so I don't know of this post's current worth considering that.

pantagruel01

My ordering of tanks, from best to worst:

• Behemoth: It has a few suboptimal picks (Str primary would be better than Con primary, defensive combo and mighty leap are mostly wastes of space, resurgence would be better than unbreakable), but it's still a competent haymaker tank, it's probably the best main tank here, and it's free.
• Rockstar: it has one major flaw: it has abilities that are dependent on clinging flames and doesn't have a reliable way of applying it (Brimstone at level 38 will mostly work). Other than that, Cleave and Vicious Descent/Decimate are mostly wastes of space.
• Master: dodge tanking is quirky but powerful, and the Master has the tools to do what it needs to do.
• Invincible: due to toggle mechanics, it's a dreadful main tank, but probably the best offtank here.
• Glacier: ranged tanking is dubious, but a competent offtank.
• Samurai: it's a dodge tank that doesn't have the tools to stack dodge. It works as an offtank.
• Mountain: it's a ranged tank (strike one), it uses defiance (good for MT, not for OT), it has Unbreakable as its active defense, and it uses the Earth power set.

zamuelpwe

In the comment of ranged tanking being dubious, I'll say that tanking is potentially the role most subject to fluctuation due to surrounding factors. Most big enemies want to get in your face so that skews things outside of other strengths and weaknesses. I only have personal experience to go on but I quit my Behemoth because it felt like a nightmare to level while my Glacier is one of my mains. I will note that this was a long time ago and both the Behemoth and Challenge have undergone changes since then. Alternately, I liked CC back in CoX so I was drawn to the Glacier's soft control.

Pantagruel, did you deliberately opt not to mention the Master or are it and Samurai interchangeable?

pantagruel01

zamuelpwe wrote: »

Pantagruel, did you deliberately opt not to mention the Master or are it and Samurai interchangeable?

Huh, no, I forgot about it. Blind spot for some reason. Added it in.

nacito

zamuelpwe wrote: »

In the comment of ranged tanking being dubious, I'll say that tanking is potentially the role most subject to fluctuation due to surrounding factors. Most big enemies want to get in your face so that skews things outside of other strengths and weaknesses. I only have personal experience to go on but I quit my Behemoth because it felt like a nightmare to level while my Glacier is one of my mains. I will note that this was a long time ago and both the Behemoth and Challenge have undergone changes since then. Alternately, I liked CC back in CoX so I was drawn to the Glacier's soft control.

Should I split OTs into rangeds and melee?​​

zamuelpwe

I don't think it needs to be that finely split. It's just a point to bring up in how it ranks against others. Also, there simply aren't a ton of tank ATs.

pantagruel01

naciiito wrote: »

Should I split OTs into rangeds and melee?​​

No. Ranged will usually have the advantage for OTing because the best tools for rounding up adds are ranged, but I can't think of any content that actually requires one or the other.

zamuelpwe wrote: »

I don't think it needs to be that finely split. It's just a point to bring up in how it ranks against others. Also, there simply aren't a ton of tank ATs.

Though several hybrids are competent enough OTs -- Savage and Dragon Spirit(LR) are pretty good, Specialist and Impulse can probably be made to work.

pantagruel01

I might split dps between 'focused strikes' and 'mass destruction' (or choose other names)
Focused Strikes
Single target dps. Most useful for efficiently melting bosses in situations where you have a tank.
Mass Destruction
General blowing up everything in sight; strong area damage, generally wants a bit of durability as aggro control cannot be guaranteed. Somewhat limited in endgame content (clearing early stages of lairs, keeping towers clear in High Noon and orbs clear in Nightmare Invasion, Warzone farming) but quite useful in lower end content, including alert farming.

nacito

pantagruel01 wrote: »

I might split dps between 'focused strikes' and 'mass destruction' (or choose other names)
Focused Strikes
Single target dps. Most useful for efficiently melting bosses in situations where you have a tank.
Mass Destruction
General blowing up everything in sight; strong area damage, generally wants a bit of durability as aggro control cannot be guaranteed. Somewhat limited in endgame content (clearing early stages of lairs, keeping towers clear in High Noon and orbs clear in Nightmare Invasion, Warzone farming) but quite useful in lower end content, including alert farming.

I will use this same formatting if you dont mind​​

zamuelpwe

With the Sub-Zero Cellblock advantage on Ice Cage, the Glacier just might be the best at phase 1 dog pulling at Kiga.

Separate from that, you might want to call out the free ATs in your list since it is worth noting if you want a certain playstyle and it's already available.

nacito

Finished the tanks section, pretty sure witch can also be a cool OT with the right gear, build and devices, suspecting about blazing too
go ahead and feel free to argue against the picks​​

avianos

I feel the https://tiermaker.com/ could also come in handy for the visual presentation of the ATs Tiers​​

pantagruel01

I'm gonna disagree with your off-tank ratings. The general things you want for an off-tank are:

• Able to quickly gather potentially scattered adds.
• Sufficient defense and/or self-healing to make staying up require minimal effort.

Looking at available ATs:

• Glacier: Shatter is excellent for rounding up adds, Invuln is excellent for resisting them, lacking in self-heals. A seems fine.
• Behemoth: Shockwave and Thunderclap are decent for rounding up adds, defiance w/no self heals not great for staying up. Probably a B.
• Rockstar: Not all that good for rounding up adds, defiance+resurgence+protector mastery is probably sufficient but gonna require some caution. Again, I'd rate it a B.
• Master: the combination of shuriken storm for rounding things up, LR+BCR/RR for tanking them, is quite compelling. Certainly an A, maybe even an S.
• Mountain: not all that great powers for rounding up adds, defiance w/very underwhelming self-heals not great for staying up. Another B.
• Invincible: doesn't have the best powers for rounding up adds, but invulnerability+Overdrive is plenty on survival. Call it an A.
• Samurai: not quite as good at rounding up adds as the master, but otherwise the same. Good enough for A.
• Savage: also not great at rounding up adds, but once they're rounded up can just AFK. Good enough for A.
• Impulse: not that familiar with PFF limitations, but crushing wave should do the job for rounding stuff up and I would assume PFF+IDF is sufficient to out-heal incoming damage. Has some energy problems but those should only matter at the very start because of force shield.
• Witch: has pretty strong options for staying up, but they're all active which can be a problem, you can't just park on block. Attacks are decent for rounding things up but suffers from Support role threat. I'd probably mark it a B just because of being relatively difficult though certainly viable.

nacito

how about blazing? same as witch?

Behemoth: they have access to small self heals (specs and enrage), and able to get healing devices
Impulse: you don't just get the attention from a lot of mobs by Aoe, you can also build it to AoE CC them with FC's adv (which is pretty amusing if you ask me), survivability is not a problem unless mobs hit through shields, this is currently my best OT atm to bring to Save the Earth, and if it can help to keep mobs away in that alert for me it is a win, the energy issues are solved with the correct specs and lots of END

avianos wrote: »

I feel the https://tiermaker.com/ could also come in handy for the visual presentation of the ATs Tiers

thanks for this​​

pantagruel01

naciiito wrote: »

how about blazing? same as witch?

I've honestly never even tried out the fire healing powers, other than absorb heat which I found problematic mostly because in Grond's room the process of applying clinging flames killed the grondlings too fast, but that seems likely.

nacito

https://tiermaker.com/create/archetypes-125790
test

Added an image for each list, fancy link provided by the page above.​​

nacito

Changes to the criteria:
tl;dr
Merged C and D, these will be on new C
Merged E and F, made them the new D

I condensed the criteria to make them more clear.
Note: Off-Tanks stayed the same​​

nacito

• Finished with the Supports section
• Moved The Master on Off-Tanks from A tier to S tier

feel free to discuss changes.​​

pantagruel01

Well, I disagree pretty strongly with your rating of the healers. Really, all of the healer ATs have pretty major issues, so I'm not sure any of them warrant an A. My ratings, in rough order of viability:

• Mind: direct healing is on the poor side (neither psionic healing nor empathic healing should be a first choice), no res power, and doesn't have area healing to speak of other than sentinel aura/mastery, but AoRP, good tap triggers for sentinel mastery, and mental leech are significant plusses for doing its job. The best of a somewhat sorry lot.
• Radiant: severe survivability issues, and Seraphim is kind of a trap choice rather than something valuable.
• Blazing: a bit more durable than the radiant because of con superstat, but it's stuck with Hearth and Smoldering.
• Witch: Not having a targeted heal at all is rather problematic. It's nice as a second healer, as it has area healing, a res power, easy sentinel mastery, and a nice aura, but life essence as your only healing is rather problematic.
• Grimoire: Suffers from being in hybrid role, which is very problematic for its aura (less problematic for AoPM than AoRP, but still problematic) and reduces healing power. Spec choices also dubious, and as maintenance heals go radiant sigils are pretty iffy. Overall I'd rate it a C (your rating: A)
• Inventor: bionic shielding is great along with another heal. It's not great as your only heal. Medical Nanites are better than Seraphim or Hearth but still a poor second cousin.
• Void: it's a dps with a little bit of healing.
• Impulse: it's a worse dps with a bit of shielding.

flowcyto

Its a good bit of work as is, since there's many ATs to look at. I've cooked a full tier list up, though it just goes by a rough ranking and by the classed roles for simplicity- so it doesn't really fit in w/ the OP's style, nor goes into that much detail. If you still want to see it, I'll put a link to it (not pasting the full text here as I don't want to hijack the thread).
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WRzQZRcQOVeqtRsDsMQPqx1nSgq7bujg/view?usp=sharing

W/ the many reworks, most ATs are at least semi-decent to me, either way. There's only 3 that I generally wouldn't recommend atm.
(And yea, I also couldn't justify giving any of the Support ATs a high rating)

nacito

• Shuffled the healers down a bit
• Fixed the tier lists width

​​