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Demonology Lore

I'm trying to write a background story for a demonologist/exorcist "hero", but I have no idea what information Champions PnP has about those two topics. Also, what in-game role would make sense for a character with those concepts? Controller? Healer?

@bulgarex is there anything relevant you could share with me? I'm in need of your help once again :p

Comments

  • no idea on lore, but if champions doesn't already have one and you need ideas for an exorcism chant, you can borrow one of supernatural's - the latin actually (mostly) translates to something that makes sense and isn't dog latin​​
    RIP Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, Rayshard Brooks & Calvin Munerlyn

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  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 2,135 Arc User
    Hmm. Well, as you've probably read from postings here, the demons from all religions and mythologies have real existence in the Champions Universe. Most abide in the Astral dimension called the Netherworld, a mosaic of all the Hells of human imagination. But there are demons who spend part or all their time on Earth, tormenting humans as per their own proclivities. Several are written up for PnP Champions, like Bloodrage, Marmoo, or Survalesh. Some human sorcerers are particularly skilled in summoning and controlling demons, for example the Demonologist and Ars Diavola. Other humans derive super-powers from demonic blessing or intervention, such as Valerian Scarlet, or Astralle of the Silvestri clan.

    Occult superheroes frequently oppose such infernal evils, but a few specialize in fighting them, like Akumashibaru of Japan. As an inverse of sorcerers who draw their magic from the Netherworld, others call on the powers of Elysium (the agglomeration of all Heavens) for their spells, as does the Iron Imam, and Robert Caliburn before he became Archmage. There are superheroes who claim their powers come directly from God, as with the Messenger or the late Archangel. That is possible in this setting, since all the "gods" of human faith also exist, or at least the manifestations of their followers' belief in them exist.

    Bottom line, if you want your hero to follow the exorcist traditions of the Catholic faith, and deal with the devils of Abrahamic tradition, you'd have plenty of justification and more than enough to keep him occupied. ;) If you'd like to follow another tradition, or have him confront demons from any source as a non-denominational "generalist," you certainly can. Or if you just want a superhero who can blast demons with his innate "holy light," without any particular faith-based perspective or training, that's readily doable.
  • brfabeirasbrfabeiras Posts: 182 Arc User
    no idea on lore, but if champions doesn't already have one and you need ideas for an exorcism chant, you can borrow one of supernatural's - the latin actually (mostly) translates to something that makes sense and isn't dog latin​​

    Cool, I'll take a look there, it aligns with the stuff I have in mind.
    bulgarex wrote: »
    Hmm. Well, as you've probably read from postings here, the demons from all religions and mythologies have real existence in the Champions Universe. Most abide in the Astral dimension called the Netherworld, a mosaic of all the Hells of human imagination. But there are demons who spend part or all their time on Earth, tormenting humans as per their own proclivities. Several are written up for PnP Champions, like Bloodrage, Marmoo, or Survalesh. Some human sorcerers are particularly skilled in summoning and controlling demons, for example the Demonologist and Ars Diavola. Other humans derive super-powers from demonic blessing or intervention, such as Valerian Scarlet, or Astralle of the Silvestri clan.

    Occult superheroes frequently oppose such infernal evils, but a few specialize in fighting them, like Akumashibaru of Japan. As an inverse of sorcerers who draw their magic from the Netherworld, others call on the powers of Elysium (the agglomeration of all Heavens) for their spells, as does the Iron Imam, and Robert Caliburn before he became Archmage. There are superheroes who claim their powers come directly from God, as with the Messenger or the late Archangel. That is possible in this setting, since all the "gods" of human faith also exist, or at least the manifestations of their followers' belief in them exist.

    Bottom line, if you want your hero to follow the exorcist traditions of the Catholic faith, and deal with the devils of Abrahamic tradition, you'd have plenty of justification and more than enough to keep him occupied. ;) If you'd like to follow another tradition, or have him confront demons from any source as a non-denominational "generalist," you certainly can. Or if you just want a superhero who can blast demons with his innate "holy light," without any particular faith-based perspective or training, that's readily doable.

    Thanks for the info, Bulgarex, I never get tired of reading the pieces of lore you drop for us. :)

    What I have in mind is indeed a "traditional" Catholic exorcist, but he would face any kind of demons, all faiths included. Any relevant church in Champions Lore that's worth mentioning? I'm considering my character to be a theology (former) student, or something related.

    Considering the "subtle" nature of an exorcist, I guess I'll try the controller or healer role in-game, since blasting stuff away with my holy power kinda diverges from the ideas I have in mind.

    Thanks everybody for the help so far :D
  • so, i guess if i say to check something out, i should actually link to it...http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/Exorcism

    that's every variation of exorcism used in supernatural - you could also use the real-life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vade_retro_satana which is what was used in medieval times...no idea if it's still used in modern times​​
    RIP Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, Rayshard Brooks & Calvin Munerlyn

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    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
  • brfabeirasbrfabeiras Posts: 182 Arc User
    Thanks @shadowfang240 , I'm gonna take a look at them :)
  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 2,135 Arc User
    brfabeiras wrote: »
    What I have in mind is indeed a "traditional" Catholic exorcist, but he would face any kind of demons, all faiths included. Any relevant church in Champions Lore that's worth mentioning? I'm considering my character to be a theology (former) student, or something related.

    There just might be.

    Vibora Bay is the birthplace and headquarters of one of the most distinctive Protestant sects, the High Apostolic Church. It's a unique blend of Catholicism, Pentecostalism, and Native American and African spiritual traditions which for want of a better term could be called, "Voodoo." The Brethren, as Church followers are called, believe that an omnipotent God exists, but is distant from the world. Lesser spirits most often called "saints," with specific spheres of authority, are prayed and sacrificed to, to ask them to intercede with God to bring about desired effects. But Brethren also believe that particularly holy people can bypass the saints through direct experience of the Holy Spirit. Such people may manifest gifts from the Holy Spirit, including prophecy, faith healing, and spontaneous exorcisms; collectively these are called charismata.

    Normally charismata manifest during church services, which feature prayers, song, rhythmic chanting and clapping, building to a crescendo. However, a small group of advisors to the church called The Convocation are elder members known for their general wisdom and particularly impressive charismata. They act to protect not only the High Apostolic Church, but the city of Vibora Bay, from mundane or supernatural threats. (Details of the Church are in the Vibora Bay source book.)

    If this was my character, given the background you suggest, I would make him a former theology student, maybe a seminarian, who suffered a tragedy due to demonic action, causing him to question his faith. Wandering without purpose he eventually came to Vibora Bay and witnessed a High Apostolic service, during which for unknown reasons he manifested exceptionally potent charismata, far more easily than most Church members. Trained to use his gifts by the Convocation, he decided God had given him the mission to combat supernatural evil wherever people are threatened, so no one else would be hurt by it as he was.

  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    Remember that in Supernatural, lore and tradition often gives way to the storytelling needs of the moment. (My roommate is a big fan, and was trying to boast of his new knowledge of the fate of Prometheus. Except that in the show, Prometheus wanders the Earth as a seemingly-mortal man who is doomed to die each night and arise again each morning, and his deaths only become horrific if he tries to avoid them. Meanwhile, according to Greek mythology, Prometheus' sentence for stealing fire from the gods and giving it to humans was to spend the rest of eternity chained to a rock, where a harpy would tear out his liver each evening and it would regrow each morning. Also, apparently Prometheus' crime in the show was reduced to a vague "defying Zeus" level.)

    Basically, what I'm saying is take the stuff in Supernatural about as seriously as the High Apostolic Church, ya know?
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Posts: 1,568 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    well, if he want serious, he has the verde retro satana i posted above...of course, seriousness in a superhero game is about as useful as t*ts on a bull

    also, any lore violations in supernatural are intentional...because they take lore and tradition - especially religious - and turn it on its head; which is why all angels are depicted as junkless douchebags​​
    RIP Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, Rayshard Brooks & Calvin Munerlyn

    blacklivesmatter.png

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 4,629 Arc User
    IIRC, Heracles eventually shot the eagle and freed Prometheus, so maybe all this takes place after he is freed? :)
    jonsills wrote: »
    Remember that in Supernatural, lore and tradition often gives way to the storytelling needs of the moment. (My roommate is a big fan, and was trying to boast of his new knowledge of the fate of Prometheus. Except that in the show, Prometheus wanders the Earth as a seemingly-mortal man who is doomed to die each night and arise again each morning, and his deaths only become horrific if he tries to avoid them. Meanwhile, according to Greek mythology, Prometheus' sentence for stealing fire from the gods and giving it to humans was to spend the rest of eternity chained to a rock, where a harpy would tear out his liver each evening and it would regrow each morning. Also, apparently Prometheus' crime in the show was reduced to a vague "defying Zeus" level.)

    Basically, what I'm saying is take the stuff in Supernatural about as seriously as the High Apostolic Church, ya know?

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  • brfabeirasbrfabeiras Posts: 182 Arc User
    bulgarex wrote: »
    If this was my character, given the background you suggest, I would make him a former theology student, maybe a seminarian, who suffered a tragedy due to demonic action, causing him to question his faith. Wandering without purpose he eventually came to Vibora Bay and witnessed a High Apostolic service, during which for unknown reasons he manifested exceptionally potent charismata, far more easily than most Church members. Trained to use his gifts by the Convocation, he decided God had given him the mission to combat supernatural evil wherever people are threatened, so no one else would be hurt by it as he was.

    That's excelent! I'll definitively work with this to build my character background :)

    About Supernatural, I'm probably gonna use a lot of it's lore to support my character beliefs/actions.

    Thanks a lot for the help guys, I'm pretty excited to work on all this!
  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 2,135 Arc User
    also, any lore violations in supernatural are intentional...because they take lore and tradition - especially religious - and turn it on its head; which is why all angels are depicted as junkless douchebags​​

    Very true; but as the Champions source book, The Mystic World, points out, traditional Abrahamic angels may be objectively "good," but many of them aren't nice. Only angels of mercy are uniformly kind and compassionate. Angels made for war or punishment are aggressive and ruthless. Created to follow God's laws with absolute fidelity, they have no sympathy or tolerance for the fallibility and frailty of mortals.

    OTOH merciful or honorable demons, as you sometimes see depicted in contemporary pop culture, aren't traditional. Devils were imagined by humans to be embodiments of the worst evil, so that's how they behave.

  • Yes angels tend to be the zealots of the deities they serve.
  • so, uh...just out of curiosity @brfabeiras , do you have the Holy Water power? kind of hard to be an exorcist or evil-stomping priest without holy water, even though the power itself is kind of...shite​​
    RIP Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, Rayshard Brooks & Calvin Munerlyn

    blacklivesmatter.png

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
  • so, uh...just out of curiosity @brfabeiras , do you have the Holy Water power? kind of hard to be an exorcist or evil-stomping priest without holy water, even though the power itself is kind of...shite​​

    Is it really?
  • it certainly isn't worth the 600 elysium coins it takes to unlock it, that's for damn sure​​
    RIP Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, Rayshard Brooks & Calvin Munerlyn

    blacklivesmatter.png

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 2,135 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    As a further note on the subject of "demonology lore:" the sorceress Ars Diavola was one of the most adept on Champions Earth at summoning and commanding demons. But in the aftermath of the first invasion of Earth by the interdimensional conqueror Istavatha V'han, Ars Diavola offered to serve V'han in exchange for the opportunity to study the demon lore of worlds and races from other dimensions, unknown to Earth. (Other races' beliefs can generate their own versions of the Netherworld distinct from Earth's.) To date she's become familiar with the Netherworlds of thousands of cultures, and can summon demons with capabilities unimagined by humanity. Ars Diavola may be the most accomplished demonologist in the entire Multiverse.

    Ars Diavola's PnP write-up appears in Book Of The Empress, source for info on the Multiverse in general and Istvatha's immense empire in particular.
  • They need to bring the Demonologist and his gang to Champions Online. I think it would cool and same with Black Paladin
  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 2,135 Arc User
    The Champions Villains trilogy alone details over three hundred villains, of many styles, motivations, and power levels, in full color artwork. That languishing potential always saddens me. :(
  • This game could be so much better. I mean it's not like they don't have enough material to do new stuff.
  • brfabeirasbrfabeiras Posts: 182 Arc User
    so, uh...just out of curiosity @brfabeiras , do you have the Holy Water power? kind of hard to be an exorcist or evil-stomping priest without holy water, even though the power itself is kind of...shite​​

    It occurred to me that I should use this power, but I couldn't afford to cut anything from my healer build without losing it's efficiency... so I passed :/
  • you could remove BCR...that's kind of redundant when you have conviction and LD for self-heals already​​
    RIP Breonna Taylor, George Floyd, Rayshard Brooks & Calvin Munerlyn

    blacklivesmatter.png

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
  • You wouldn't happen to have a picture of what the Demonologist and his team look like would you? Always wanted to create a demon summoner villain
  • bulgarexbulgarex Posts: 2,135 Arc User
    I couldn't find a picture of Demonologist online, but his description in Champions Villains Volume Two is actually pretty mundane: "Andre [de Faussesflammes] has the pale skin and habitual stoop common to people who spend most of their time indoors with books. He wears grey or tan slacks and a tan jacket with elbow patches: He could pass for a college professor or stockbroker. His “costume” consists of nothing more than his grey wardcape, clasped with a garnet brooch, and his rings and talismans. When the Demonologist wants to, however, he can fairly crackle with authority."

    The other Devil's Advocates are quite diverse in appearance, at least in their "super" manifestations; but I'd prefer not to transcribe more of that text on an open forum.
  • brfabeirasbrfabeiras Posts: 182 Arc User
    you could remove BCR...that's kind of redundant when you have conviction and LD for self-heals already​​

    Hmm, I'll test this. Thanks!
  • brfabeirasbrfabeiras Posts: 182 Arc User
    You wouldn't happen to have a picture of what the Demonologist and his team look like would you? Always wanted to create a demon summoner villain

    The 6th edition of Champions Villains Vol. 2 has a picture of every Devil Advocate. Here's how the Demonologist looks like:
    63HFn0D.png
  • Thanks for that.
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