How much Detect Vulnerability is enough?

monsterdaddy

It appears you can get very high defense penetration from Detect Vulnerability. How much is enough for Cosmics and Rampages? I read that Dino has up to 40% resistance.

Follow-up question, is Warlord mod and Detect Vulnerability additive? So if you have enough from DV then a warlord mod is unnecessary. But a reduce resistance debuff can make a target's resistance go negative and you do extra damage?

Thanks again!

pantagruel01

It depends a lot on target. Most targets don't need more than 20%, cosmics I think need up to around 60%, a few specialized opponents need as much as 200%.

flowcyto

monsterdaddy wrote: »

Follow-up question, is Warlord mod and Detect Vulnerability additive? So if you have enough from DV then a warlord mod is unnecessary. But a reduce resistance debuff can make a target's resistance go negative and you do extra damage?

Afaik, Warlord's DUC mod also works like DVuln in that it can't take resist past 0%, and both can work together. For a really high-resist target like a cosmic, that can still be useful w/ DVuln, but not against most other target types, as panta stated.

spinnytop

For cosmics just stack Int as much as you can, since it's pretty unlikely you'll hit a point where it isn't increasing your damage on a cosmic, even if you also have DUC. Assuming you're using an Int form, then it won't matter if you're not getting the full amount of resist ignore on lesser creatures since they'll likely drop dead pretty quick with their 0% resistance to your attacks.

On my Int DV toon cosmics still resist some portion of her damage even though I solely stack Int.​​

kamokami

monsterdaddy wrote: »

It appears you can get very high defense penetration from Detect Vulnerability. How much is enough for Cosmics and Rampages? I read that Dino has up to 40% resistance.

Depends on if you have other sources of def pen and how much they provide. All of the previous advice is good.

If you want to take things to an extreme, you can figure the right amount by stacking INT sky high, seeing if you hit 0 resist with minimal-to-no use of debuffs on a cosmic, and then progressively lowering the amount of INT until cosmic's resist is no longer 0.

For that method you will want to choose a damage type that is not often debuffed. I like sonic. And do runs where there are fewer people present which reduces the chances of DIno's resist being affected by debuffs.

monsterdaddy wrote: »

Follow-up question, is Warlord mod and Detect Vulnerability additive?

Yes. So if you have 40% def pen from detect vuln and you slot a DUC then you character will have 55% def pen.

monsterdaddy wrote: »

So if you have enough from DV then a warlord mod is unnecessary.

There isn't much in the way of gear that's necessary. But if you mean redundant then, when it comes to Dino, the DUC is still the best mod to slot in terms increasing your damage output.

monsterdaddy wrote: »

But a reduce resistance debuff can make a target's resistance go negative and you do extra damage?

Yes, however those debuffs are also affected by diminishing returns. This can be significant vs a cosmic if you have a lot of other debuffers present.

spinnytop

Do I remember something about Cosmic defense scaling with number of participants or am I thinking about something else?​​

kamokami

spinnytop wrote: »

Do I remember something about Cosmic defense scaling with number of participants or am I thinking about something else?​​

You are remembering right. It does get higher with more participants.

pantagruel01

spinnytop wrote: »

Do I remember something about Cosmic defense scaling with number of participants or am I thinking about something else?​​

I believe it's intended to, but however it's implemented is super glitchy, cosmic defense actually changes erratically even when the number of participants does not change.

warcanch

pantagruel01 wrote: »

spinnytop wrote: »

Do I remember something about Cosmic defense scaling with number of participants or am I thinking about something else?

I believe it's intended to, but however it's implemented is super glitchy, cosmic defense actually changes erratically even when the number of participants does not change.

Much like at Dino when the "wheels start to fall off" and Dino starts spitting for a million damage plus, unmitigated. (I should have screenshotted my combat chat bar when she did that to my healer 2 days ago).​​

pantagruel01

warcanch wrote: »

Much like at Dino when the "wheels start to fall off" and Dino starts spitting for a million damage plus, unmitigated.

That's actually frenzy, and working as intended (there is a non-frenzy situation where Dino's damage ramps way up, which we think is a bug with baby movement, but it generally produces hits of 150-300k).

spinnytop

Right, so probably a good idea to plan for the eventuality of there being a full zone of people and you needing to carry a few of them with your defense-ignoring damage by stacking it as high as it'll go. I wonder if we'll ever get an Int-scaling melee form.​​

pantagruel01

spinnytop wrote: »

Right, so probably a good idea to plan for the eventuality of there being a full zone of people and you needing to carry a few of them with your defense-ignoring damage by stacking it as high as it'll go. I wonder if we'll ever get an Int-scaling melee form.​​

Particle Accelerator in laser sword.

spinnytop

pantagruel01 wrote: »

spinnytop wrote: »

Right, so probably a good idea to plan for the eventuality of there being a full zone of people and you needing to carry a few of them with your defense-ignoring damage by stacking it as high as it'll go. I wonder if we'll ever get an Int-scaling melee form.

Particle Accelerator in laser sword.

How did I forget about a form I use Dx

All right then, melee or ranged, stack dat Int!​​

warcanch

pantagruel01 wrote: »

warcanch wrote: »

Much like at Dino when the "wheels start to fall off" and Dino starts spitting for a million damage plus, unmitigated.

That's actually frenzy, and working as intended (there is a non-frenzy situation where Dino's damage ramps way up, which we think is a bug with baby movement, but it generally produces hits of 150-300k).

I know the difference between frenzy and not frenzy. I'm talking about the ridiculous ramp up of damage when NOT frenzy. As I said, my healer got a 1+ million hit and dino was NOT in frenzy.​​

spinnytop

I see these claims made now and then. Unfortunately nobody is ever recording when it happens .-.​​

warcanch

spinnytop wrote: »

I see these claims made now and then. Unfortunately nobody is ever recording when it happens .-.

And if you are there often enough, you see them in action. I check my combat log. I'm (usually) targeted on Dino (in my example) and can see there is no Frenzy buff. Hence, my claim. I know others have seen this often enough, as well.

When she is Frenzied, well, it's time to die or get out of range. That's a given. Her hits are gonna be killers. But, another issue I have is that NO attack should be an "unknown ability". Which we see quite often, too.

And, sorry, I did not mean to sidetrack the OP into this.​​

wingedkagouti

warcanch wrote: »

But, another issue I have is that NO attack should be an "unknown ability". Which we see quite often, too.

That could be a leftover from the original (ie. pre-F2P) Cosmic Lockout mechanic where killing either monkey or dino would give you a high duration (death persistent) debuff. That debuff would trigger taking massive amounts of resistance ignoring damage from a special ability on both the monkey and dino if they were in combat. Players that didn't have the debuff would take fairly minimal damage from that attack and it wouldn't ignore their resistance. With their various revamps this ability may have lost whatever linked it to its name in an attempt to remove it, but still have been attached for some reason.

There are other options for why something is "unknown ability" of course, but for monkey and dino that one seems somewhat plausible.

phasestar

In the cosmic experiences I've had so far, I've seen occasional weird events that I have to assume are glitches, but they are thankfully rare. I've seen sudden damage in between cosmic attack animations for no evident reason, attacks that suddenly for one attack ignore active blocks or even masterful dodge, rogue dogs that are completely on a different page from the others and occasional bizarre movement glitches (getting stuck, sliding). I figure as long as they are rare, I will write it off to the cosmic occasionally getting to do whatever they want, but it does make for the occasional frustrating experience, especially if I am tanking.

I assume some of these may be related to some kind of lag or delay issue, though I have my performance settings tuned to give me max framerate at all times and my internet connection is excellent, but who knows when the game has to coordinate lag between all the people in-zone and all the attacks.

dirtydwarf68

How does the 'ignore 10% of your foes damage resistance' from Night Warrior fit it? Is that calculated exactly the same as DV and the DUC's? I am running about -46% with my DV right now and 10% ignore DR with Night warrior now on my Dual Pistols build (wanted a muni boss killer). My stats aren't optimized yet so I am sure I can get more on my DV, but it almost sounds like the additional 10% from Night Warrior may not be helping me much as I thought it was on anything but Cosmics (which I rarely do atm)?? Might be better with Targeting computer for xtra damage and crit instead?

spinnytop

Night Warrior's 10% functions just like DV and DUC, it gets added to the total.

Night Warrior and Targeting Computer are fairly equal choices in regards to dual pistols. Night Warrior tends to be better for builds that use lots of charges, due to the charge speed bonus.

sannia1

Doing some theoretical thinking can explain why the DR stacking on cosmics can seem "buggy"

Imagine you have a dino fight going with 40 players attacking it. So, its DR scales to 40 players. Then 10 people quit. It's obviously not going to scale down immediately, so it has to scale back down to the DR for 30 players after X amount of time.

So what you'd see is those 30 people sucking for X amount of time not passing their checks, then the cosmic recalculates its DR to scale against 30 people, and then all of a sudden their DPS spikes drastically and they do start passing their checks.

Then, let's consider a more realistic case where you have people coming and going, people switching toons, people coming with auras, and the fact that we don't actually know what "X" is, and it's easy to see how the DR scaling can appear to be chaotic.