I made a Defiance tank

markhawkman

For the Defender training thing I decided to dabble in a long list of things I'd wanted to try but never got a chance to try out. Soo... Force, Heavy Weapons, Defiance, and Circle of Primal Dominion. I kinda like the results, both mechanically and aesthetically, but I was curious what you guys think would be improvements.

Current setup is something like this:
Super Stats
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Rockstar (Con: 10, End: 10, Str: 10, Rec: 8)
Level 6: Physical Conditioning (Str: 5, Con: 5)
Level 9: Paramilitary Training (Con: 3, End: 3, Str: 3, Rec: 3)
Level 12: Relentless (Str: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 15: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 18: Martial Training (Str: 3, Dex: 3, Ego: 3, Rec: 3)
Level 21: Jack of All Trades (Con: 2, End: 2, Str: 2, Dex: 2, Int: 2, Ego: 2, Rec: 2)

Powers(numbers are wrong, this is the order listed in my powers list)
Level 1: Force Bolts (advantages?, how do you look up which ones you have?)
Level 1: Cleave (advantages?)
Level 6: Enrage (advantages?)
Level 8: Skewer (advantages?)
Level 11: Force Snap (advantages?)
Level 14: Earth Splitter (advantages?)
Level 17: Vicious Descent (advantages?)
Level 20: Conviction (advantages?)
Level 23: Masterful Dodge (advantages?)
Level 26: Resurgence (advantages?)
Level 29: Guard (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Circle of Primal Dominion (advantages?)
Level 35: Defiance (advantages?)
Level 38: Thermal Reverberation (advantages?)
*Adv. Points: 36/36

Travel Powers
Level 6: Blazing Acrobatics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Stoic Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)

Specializations
Strength: Swole (3/3)
Strength: Physical Peak (2/3)
Strength: Overpower (2/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Reactive Strikes (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Sentinel: Caregiver (2/3)
Sentinel: Sentinel Aura (3/3)(Yes, I was going for Healing aggro here... and it works.... sometimes.)
Sentinel: Rejuvenated (3/3)
Sentinel: Moment of Need (2/3)
Mastery: Warden Mastery (1/1)

flowcyto

Since Force can have annoying KBs for a melee set like HW, I would keep using HW mostly for the attacks and use some Force stuff for other aspects (like the block enhancer). Also, I assume this is meant to be a proper tank build. Here's how I'd prob build it:

https://aesica.net/co/herocreator.htm?v=32&n=&d=11380WAQFPEa000000H000H20aH400H804H90i2D00K503H700HE0LON01320C3707ER00MR0310gC3T3B21u630000000000&e=

Super Stats
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Endurance (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Devastator (Str: 10, Con: 10, Rec: 10, End: 8)
Level 6: Physical Conditioning (Str: 5, Con: 5)
Level 9: Boundless Reserves (Con: 5, End: 5)
Level 12: Bodybuilder (Str: 5, End: 5)
Level 15: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 18: Relentless (Str: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 21: Amazing Stamina (Rec: 5, End: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Bludgeon
Level 1: Eruption (Magma Burst, Challenge!)
Level 6: Defiance
Level 8: Enrage (Endorphin Rush)
Level 11: Arc of Ruin (No Quarter, Wildfire, Challenge!)
Level 14: Thermal Reverberation
Level 17: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Decimate
Level 23: Annihilate (Rank 2, Scorching Blade, Challenge!)
Level 26: Resurgence (Rank 2)
Level 29: Force Snap (Entropic Collapse, Recharge)
Level 32: Force Shield (Rank 2, Rank 3, Force Sheathe)
Level 35: Masterful Dodge
Level 38: Circle of Primal Dominion (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Adv. Points: 33/36

Travel Powers
Level 6:
Level 35:

Specializations
Strength: Swole (3/3)
Strength: Physical Peak (2/3)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Elusive (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Protector: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Protector: Unrelenting (1/2)
Protector: Bulwark (2/2)
Protector: Defensive Expertise (3/3)
Protector: Resolute (1/3)
Mastery: Protector Mastery (1/1)

Uses Eruption to put up CFlames quickly. Arc can pbAoE, and taps of Arc can debuff for Annihilate. Annihilate is the main single-target attack here. Force Snap can give you another self-heal option. Gears mostly for Con, w/ some Str (for Enrage) and maybe a bit of End.

markhawkman

Aw, no Sentinel Aura? TBH, I'm not really sure if that was a good idea in the first place. The build I used seemed to not support it well.

So why Endurance over Recovery? Con and Str are obvious choices, but I'm not 100% sure how to know which of End and Rec to choose.

Also is Bludgeon a melee attack? And does this build have a lunge?

flowcyto

End is nice to pair w/ Defiance in general since you can get large bursts of energy from it and End lowers energy-capping, but also cause End scales up TReverb here. Shouldn't matter too much either way, since that 3rd SS shouldn't be geared nearly as much as Con (or even as much as Str for Enrage).

Sentinel Aura is alright.. but as a tank your main job isn't to support others generally. You can make a support-tank build, but its a bit of a diff approach (and it won't be optimized for either role).

markhawkman

Also is Bludgeon a melee attack?

And does this build have a lunge?

shadowolf505

Decimate is the lunge, Bludgeon is a Melee Energy Builder.

markhawkman

Is there a specific reason to use them?

He mentioned not wanting to use knock backs on a melee focused character, which I guess is why to not use Force Bolts. But is there a specific reason to use a melee EB?

Also what's the pros/cons of using Decimate instead of Vicious Descent?

shadowolf505

Well you can use Force Bolts as the EB if you want, Decimate is 3 seconds cooldown while Vicious Descent is about 15. I would use any lunge besides VD.

Also, Bludgeon is just slashing a sword. No knocking back.

pantagruel01

shadowolf505 wrote: »

Well you can use Force Bolts as the EB if you want, Decimate is 3 seconds cooldown while Vicious Descent is about 15. I would use any lunge besides VD.

Depends on what you want out of a lunge. Vicious Descent actually does damage, and outside of PvP needing to lunge more than once per 15s is uncommon (in fact, needing to lunge at all is uncommon, I don't include lunges on most of my melee builds).

markhawkman

for aggroing an entire mob at once VD is great. It hits the ground with a shock that knocks the enemies down and has a decent AoE. I do have to agree the CD is annoying though.

flowcyto

If you want to take VD as a lunge then go ahead. It should be pretty easy to follow-up whatever lunge you take w/ Arc for AoE tagging, though. And yea, I didn't really like Force Bolt's knock chance, though it can still work as the energy build- regardless, you shouldn't be using the energy builder much at higher levels of gear anyways.

markhawkman

Also apparently Force Bolts is only a 20% chance to KB. I'm mostly not wanting Bludgeon because I don't like melee range EBs.

flowcyto

Again, it really shouldn't matter much in that respect, as you shouldn't be using your EB that often as is (melee EBs have taunts at range too). Rather, changing the EB does mean changing the order of powers in my build, since you can't get Eruption and Enrage or Defiance first w/o HW's EB. I guess you could also take Cleave instead of Eruption too, though its a somewhat slower way of applying CFlames initially vs Eruption's instant cast.

hemslord

If you want to stick to flowcyto's build but want a ranged EB you could try Wield Earth. It's a ranged and melee EB in the might set so you can still get Defiance & Eruption at level 6. The only difficulty might be working it into your theme.

markhawkman

flowcyto wrote: »

Again, it really shouldn't matter much in that respect, as you shouldn't be using your EB that often as is (melee EBs have taunts at range too). Rather, changing the EB does mean changing the order of powers in my build, since you can't get Eruption and Enrage or Defiance first w/o HW's EB. I guess you could also take Cleave instead of Eruption too, though its a somewhat slower way of applying CFlames initially vs Eruption's instant cast.

Yeah that is one thing I'm not happy with in my build. It took way too long to apply Clinging Flames. I'll experiment before making a final decision.

hemslord wrote: »

If you want to stick to flowcyto's build but want a ranged EB you could try Wield Earth. It's a ranged and melee EB in the might set so you can still get Defiance & Eruption at level 6. The only difficulty might be working it into your theme.

Yeah.... theme.... is not that.

flowcyto

markhawkman wrote: »

flowcyto wrote: »

Again, it really shouldn't matter much in that respect, as you shouldn't be using your EB that often as is (melee EBs have taunts at range too). Rather, changing the EB does mean changing the order of powers in my build, since you can't get Eruption and Enrage or Defiance first w/o HW's EB. I guess you could also take Cleave instead of Eruption too, though its a somewhat slower way of applying CFlames initially vs Eruption's instant cast.

Yeah that is one thing I'm not happy with in my build. It took way too long to apply Clinging Flames. I'll experiment before making a final decision.

Yea, Eruption w/ adv is good for quickly applying CF w/ HW. If you still really wanted Force Bolts in my build then you could just get Force Shield and Force Snap first, assuming its a retcon build (if leveling with it, get Cleave + Enrage + Defiance_TReverb early on instead, and then train out of Cleave later to center the build around Eruption, Arc, and Annihilate). For example:

Powers
Level 1: Force Bolts
Level 1: Force Snap (Recharge)
Level 6: Force Shield (Rank 2, Rank 3, Force Sheathe)
Level 8: Enrage (Endorphin Rush)
Level 11: Defiance
Level 14: Arc of Ruin (No Quarter, Wildfire, Challenge!)
Level 17: Eruption (Magma Burst, Challenge!)
Level 20: Thermal Reverberation
Level 23: Annihilate (Rank 2, Scorching Blade, Challenge!)
Level 26: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Vicious Descent (Relentless)
Level 32: Resurgence (Rank 2)
Level 35: Masterful Dodge
Level 38: Circle of Primal Dominion (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Adv. Points: 34/36

markhawkman

interesting, but I got the character to level 40 last week, so I'm not worried about leveling move learn order. Right now, I'm trying the first moveset you suggested and it's working pretty well so far.

flowcyto

cool! Hope it continues to work out for ya.

markhawkman

So at least 6 of this build's power got changed. I can still baby tank successfully, but I know the build needs to be re-worked now.

flowcyto

Alright, I'm just gonna assume you're using this build atm, but let me know if you're not:

https://aesica.net/co/herocreator.htm?v=32&n=&d=11380WAQFPEa000000H000H20aH400H804H90i2D00K503H700HE0LON01320C3707ER00MR0310gC3T3B21u630000000000&e=

You don't necc have to change too much, but here's a minor edit of it:

(Unnamed Build) - Freeform (Tank)
v3.34:32

Super Stats
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Endurance (Secondary)

Talents
Level 1: The Devastator (Str: 10, Con: 10, Rec: 10, End: 8)
Level 6: Physical Conditioning (Str: 5, Con: 5)
Level 9: Boundless Reserves (Con: 5, End: 5)
Level 12: Bodybuilder (Str: 5, End: 5)
Level 15: Quick Recovery (Con: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 18: Relentless (Str: 5, Rec: 5)
Level 21: Amazing Stamina (Rec: 5, End: 5)

Powers
Level 1: Bludgeon
Level 1: Eruption (Magma Burst, Challenge!)
Level 6: Defiance (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Enrage
Level 11: Arc of Ruin (No Quarter, Wildfire, Challenge!)
Level 14: Thermal Reverberation
Level 17: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Decimate
Level 23: Annihilate (Rank 2, Scorching Blade, Challenge!)
Level 26: Masterful Dodge (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Force Snap (Recharge)
Level 32: Force Shield (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Imbue
Level 38: Circle of Primal Dominion (Rank 2)
Adv. Points: 33/36

Travel Powers
Level 6:
Level 35:

Specializations
Strength: Swole (3/3)
Strength: Physical Peak (2/3)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Elusive (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Protector: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Protector: Unrelenting (1/2)
Protector: Bulwark (2/2)
Protector: Defensive Expertise (3/3)
Protector: Resolute (1/3)
Mastery: Protector Mastery (1/1)

Now you do want to rank Defiance and Masterful Dodge, if taking them. You can still take CoPD, and it's still fine for tanking, but keep in mind that it also means longer cooldowns. Force Sheath also now costs 3 adv points, so you may want to skip it now. The shared AD cd is now 90 sec too, so you could consider dropping one AD for an AO like Imbue.

markhawkman

Oh yeah, would these powers help the build at all?

New Power: Indestructible
Brick Framework Shared Power
Active Defense
Increases your damage resistance by a large amount.

New Power: Pulverizer
Brick Framework Shared Power
Energy Unlock
Grants energy over time when you knock a target. This effect can stack up to 3 times. Scales with your Recovery primarily and Endurance.
If you are at 3 stacks of this effect, triggering this effect will refresh existing stacks.

flowcyto

Indestructible is going to be less effective on tanks that already have high dmgRes due to Defiance or Invuln, though you can still try it if you want. Pulverizer can work too, though TReverb also still works w/ HW here, and Pulv scales w/ Rec instead of End primarily.

markhawkman

With the current version of things how much reason do I have to use End over Rec?

flowcyto

markhawkman wrote: »

With the current version of things how much reason do I have to use End over Rec?

It just depends on which EU you settle on, though it shouldn't be a major stat to gear for in either case. Pulv doesn't take setup w/ CFlames here, but on the flipside Eruption and Arc refreshes make CFlames pretty easy to handle and TReverb doesn't have to deal w/ a stacking mechanic like Pulv or Overdrive.

markhawkman

Hmm, so what changes should I make assuming I DO go with Pulverizer?

flowcyto

Change End SS to Rec SS. Else, assuming energy is still fine, you don't need to do much different- other than maybe not have to start w/ Eruption before spamming Arc in AoE. You'd still want to roll CFlames w/ Eruption and Arc taps if taking Annihilate's special adv, though.

bringmeaslab

Switching End 2SS to Rec should be all you need to do with regards to that. If you have Dist Efficiency Helm, Rec statting will also boost its rng energy returns, and that can help cover the gap from the Defiance change.

markhawkman

OK then

silentline7

:> Hi guys.

um.. With all the recent changes I found myself in the powerhouse again.

(The Demi-Set Version 4)

Teleport(when your trapped by too many enemies to move) /Flight (for those hard to reach spots)
(although its better you switch out flight for Athletics or acrobatics to move around faster on the battle field. I just use teleport for quick spurts of movement as I spend more time tanking most of the time)

Role:(Defense-Tank) Strength/Constitution+++/Recovery

Mods:Confronts/Defense/Cool down

Specialty tree:Strength/Protector*/Guardian
(many people push guardian aside for something else but it fits my concept. And I delight in the additional healing/defense/ and even a big offense/defense buff when taking or giving damage. As do not always main tank its a considerable option.)

01.-Telekinetic Blades 5 Rank 3+Terrorize
(no noticeable changes)

02.-Telekinetic Shield 4 Rank 3 410% on the physical becomes important when Tanking momma or and baby dino cross bosses.
(the lingering +35% or so effect buff when dropping shield for 1pt point is now 3pts)

03.-Mental Leech 1 Rank 1+Challenge
(still a reliable lengthy Heal over time after 12 seconds and its ranged stack-able AoE across all enemies even bosses. But on really big, big, big bosses you might not be able to get close enough to the center to collect the radiating dependency hp gain)

04.-Defiance 4 Rank 3
(The new pluses are its been improved drastically but also you'll find the, "I take a hit and gain all sorts of energy" is gone)

05.-Indestructible 4 Rank 3
(I was complaining about the psychic tree mental direct defense/offense ultimate not being affected by both offensive and defensive mastery specializations for cool down return making it more useful. This move answered my prayers but.. The ability to stack direct defenses scaling them down to 5-7 seconds in between one another is now gone so this kinda kills the point of having more than one unless its a resurgence in conjunction with protector mastery to push back to 100% hp under dire circumstances)

06.-Endorphin Rush 4 Rank3
(Separated from Enrage completely its not as strong as I used to get about 400+ hp by using it Roomsweeper to activate the enrage advantage while keeping on Inertial dampening field [IDF]. Those days are gone. No more slick form double dipping)

07.-IDF 4 Rank3
(No noticeable changes. When tanking 300+ mobs where you effortlessly gather all enemies in the area to be mowed down by your pals in a tight area without so much as taking a noticeable scratch this move is key. Or you can be mob overkill tank spec this + Invulnerable to constantly take screenshots in front of gun barrels all day)

08.-Earth Splitter 1 Rank1+ Challenge
(When you get tired of having to rely on all sorts of moves to prevent knock and dont want to waste precious defense for additional knock prevention. Tap reliance stacking x3 on reckless=knock resistance + its a knock move + its ranged + it applies clinging flames + it applies a tiny shield you can build up every tap or charge + you don't have to pay additional points for anything but Challenge! This move is gold as easy to maintain. OP in my opinion but with all the benefits hard tanks lost in the last 5 years its a welcome addition to the ordinance.)

09.-Absorb Heat 1 Rank1+ Challenge
(No noticeable changes. You can pump this sucker up but I recommend just relying on the number of enemies you get the flames from after Earth Splitter. It's AoE and effects your friends + leaves a lingering Heal over time (HoT) its smooth sailing)

10.-Haymaker 5 Rank3+ Challenge
(People say it got watered down. The change made things a bit easier for me to get more damage without the enrage roomsweeper double form damage stacking so I cant complain. Tap haymaker then tap Earth splitter rinse cycle through HoT's rinse repeat.)

EB. Bludgeon - Rank1
(I would actually recommend force bolts here with the 2 pt shield inversion add for addition tank protection but I like the AoE component as part of my style of play. It's not practical but I like it. I also saw some tanks using the Healer Energy Builder to self heal which looks kinda funny but is also reliable to a tank since damage is knocked down so low you can over heal it.)

11.-Pulverizer En -
(Well.. at least I can get some energy back although with the shield I use I don't really need it as I spend more time blocking in cosmics and places one player alone should not be. May replace with Resurgence later on.)

12.-Illumination 1 Rank1
(I know, I know. No one really thinks this is useful for a non-healer. Well for my concept it fits on top of that the extra +%3 heal and mending boon for me and the entire team makes this move worth it.

13.-Salvation 2 Rank2
(Normally I would have lightening resurgence or a Last Stand as something to turn the tide of a party wipe when things get crazy but I tend to keep this handy as I spend ALOT of my resources to make my gear choices costume pieces etc perfect. Most people rely on devices for this but I like the animation and it fits the concept.)

You can also speck double or triple shield dropping in addition to really ignore damage long enough to compensate but your going to have to do your own home work on that one. I hope this has been helpful for aspiring tanks on some level.

See you guys in the field. :>
Uh oh.. wait it says I have another free retcon.. more changes have occured.. um.. this post may be obsolete already.

flowcyto

silentline7 wrote: »

:> Hi guys.
(huge build post)

Uh.. hi? Are you Markhawkman? Cause if not, then you prob should have made your own thread on this instead.

Anyways, I'm not sure what you want from posting this, but in the future I'd prob make your build in the HeroCreator and export it. It makes the build easier to read and also makes it easy to include things like stats, talents, and specs in a concise manner.
https://aesica.net/co/herocreator.htm

markhawkman

I think he's hijacking because he's too new to make his own thread? Then again I'm also not sure if he's trying to ask for or give advice?

flowcyto

markhawkman wrote: »

I think he's hijacking because he's too new to make his own thread? Then again I'm also not sure if he's trying to ask for or give advice?

Yea, well he made a new topic on a diff forum around the same time, so I dunno. *shrug*

Either way, if you have any other issues or questions w/ your Defiance build, then let us know.

silentline7

Dont mind me I just recently started posting I have no idea what I am doing. My apologies for hijacking. How do I erase this post. Can I get a recall on all my posts this week moderators. Just this once? C:

jaazaniah1

Once posted all you can do is go into (edit) the post and delete what's said. You can't delete the post itself.

flowcyto

silentline7 wrote: »

Dont mind me I just recently started posting I have no idea what I am doing. My apologies for hijacking. How do I erase this post. Can I get a recall on all my posts this week moderators. Just this once? C:

You can always edit your old reply if you want, but either way it's not a huge deal. If you want to discuss your own build(s) on this sub-forum, then I suggest you make your own thread next time- that's all.

markhawkman

leaving it as-is is also fine.