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Remove all knock and hold resist mechanics from everybody.

bluhmanbluhman Posts: 2,209 Arc User
Just do it because right now it's just benefiting cosmic CC griefers and enemy mobs. In practice:
  • Almost all mobs are dead before they reach full stacks unless they're being nailed by someone going nuts with spamming headbutt or some other useless stun. Every single target you'd feasibly want to keep constantly stunlocked is resistant to the effect anyways outside of one extremely specific exception that's designed entirely around this broken game mechanic.
  • Players are guaranteed to be dead before they reach full stacks because that's literally 3 failed blocks they have to have somehow survived through to reach that point, why on earth do we not gain resist stacks when successfully blocking control effects this is the stupidest thing ever
  • Cosmic control is such a ridiculous balancing act designed around creating some character capable of gaining holds long enough to outlast the duration of hold or knock resist to the point that people make hyper-specialized CC builds that are only capable of optimally doing one or two pieces of content, and then absolutely nothing else.
So just make our lives easier by letting us fling enemies everywhere and stunlock them to death, the game already isn't a challenge and we deserve suffering inflicted upon us by all might and force users by virtue of constant unmitigated knockback that will permanently keep enemies out of our range, maybe that'll create some incentive for the developers to take a look at these broken sets sooner rather than later.

Here's a question to top this off with:
Most griefers are pointed out through parsers. These keep track of DPS and HPS by character.
Currently they're only integrated in the game through third-party software, and are limited in what they can detect somewhat.
To my knowledge they do track some more detailed metrics such as threat, mitigation, etc.
do they track the origin of holds though?
what's stopping someone from using a hold that deals no damage like ego sleep, just to build up resist stacks?
and basically any build that isn't specialized in CC is optimal for griefing a cosmic in this method. Literally take a tank with rank 1 ego sleep, flight/teleport, and now they can just hover out of sight of everyone else and slap useless 15-second sleep stacks on dogs, and unless someone just happens to be looking in the right direction or recording footage, nobody would immediately be able to tell who did it.

Make our lives easier. Destroy this ridiculous imbalance between player and enemy mechanics. Stop cosmic griefing. Remove resist stacks.
awol until further notice

Comments

  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 14,927 Arc User
    edited April 15
    Another well thought out, totally not over-the-top extreme suggestion from bluh o3o

    Your claims about CC toons continue to be ridiculous though u3u​​
  • bluhmanbluhman Posts: 2,209 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Your claims about CC toons continue to be ridiculous though u3u​​

    explain
    awol until further notice
  • thewinxfairythewinxfairy Posts: 59 Arc User
    I just finished grinding QWZ missions for a full set of Justic gear with an Earth Theme DPS build. After THAT experience, this change would have made it ALOT easier to solo the missions, as interrupting attacks via knocks from Fault Line were key to winning each mob encounter.

    I fully support this idea,

    *Signed*
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 14,927 Arc User
    edited April 16
    bluhman wrote: »
    explain
    bluhman wrote: »
    people make hyper-specialized CC builds that are only capable of optimally doing one or two pieces of content, and then absolutely nothing else.

    ^ silly statement. Those builds can do the vast majority of the game just fine, and are moderately less useful in one or... well, one encounter, that being Dino. So it's actually the reverse of what you said. Btw I'm in the process of recording my support toons soloing QWZ so we can discuss what that looks like when I post those, but so far I can say it's nowhere near as slow as I was expecting the healery healer, and from what I remember from when I used to do it on my CCer that should be pretty okay too.​​
  • colonelwingcolonelwing Posts: 183 Arc User
    I hope you're talking pve only, since this would break what's left of pvp even more.. because holds are the second most annoying / game breaking thing aside from knock ups.
  • bluhmanbluhman Posts: 2,209 Arc User
    edited April 16
    spinnytop wrote: »

    ^ silly statement. Those builds can do the vast majority of the game just fine, and are moderately less useful in one or... well, one encounter, that being Dino. So it's actually the reverse of what you said. Btw I'm in the process of recording my support toons soloing QWZ so we can discuss what that looks like when I post those, but so far I can say it's nowhere near as slow as I was expecting the healery healer, and from what I remember from when I used to do it on my CCer that should be pretty okay too.​​

    Yes it's possible to solo QWZ with a CC, ok. A DPS with Inexorable Tides could probably do it just as well with the right gearing for defenses. Or, you know, a tank with a similar reliable knock or stun effect. Yes CC has the benefit of being able to use a charged paralyze on key targets, of which there are no shortage of in QWZ content. You could prepare a hold on them that keeps them out of the fight for 45+ seconds and then take down the rest of the mob in that time window. Or you know, you could just murder the Sorcerer that generates all those shields by sniping them with an 100-foot attack, that also works.

    If there already is one CC, then what does the other CC do?
    It is literally the only role I can think of that's actively detrimental to the team to have more than one of. Not just in Cosmics, in alerts too. Do you think that's good? Is that the only reason why I never see you show up to cosmics as a CC?
    Why do none of these builds use Manipulator? Why does the word "Control" not show up in a single place in this thread?
    The Stunning Sorcerer is the closest it gets and even after watching it in practice... That's not a CC. That's not using Manipulator. Arguably the biggest benefactor from Manipulator stacks are stuns, where you can trigger 8+ seconds of unendable downtime on an enemy, and you're just using them through taps of Skarn's Bane with a cheeky advantage to keep enemies down 3 times in a row. This is fundamentally identical to a Martial-Arts DPS, in that CC is just a byproduct of how it fights. this is a Ranged DPS build, using a DPS passive, with a DPS toggle, end of story.

    You have such a raging blind hardon for control, and yet what I see is using control as just a byproduct of normal building. You don't seem to understand in the slightest sense that it's a fundamentally broken, flawed, obsolete, hamfisted playstyle. Cosmics are such a perfect example of this because cryptic had to defy their own standards of game mechanics to justify this aspect of gameplay. Up until they got revamped, Kigatiliks Dogs sure as heck weren't vulnerable to CC.


    Though you do make me realize one thing, that removing this limit to number of knocks/holds within a certain time frame would mean that this playstyle of CC just kind of being a result of certain attacks would render dedicated CC abilities more useless than they already were. But then again, maybe the concept of single-target, 1-second-charge, non-damaging holds is a bit outdated now and might need a review outside of the context of breaking this game's fundamental core over one's knee.
    I hope you're talking pve only, since this would break what's left of pvp even more.. because holds are the second most annoying / game breaking thing aside from knock ups.

    Similar case here, PvP's also been massively broken for ages now thanks to gimmicks such as devices (the big culprit that I can't even remember the name of, @spinnytop feel free to remind me)

    But not that this would have a huge effect on the meta of PvP because what kind of PvP build doesn't manage to kill their opponent before inflicting 3 different knocks?
    awol until further notice
  • bluhmanbluhman Posts: 2,209 Arc User
    edited April 16
    Actually honestly it'd probably just be best to remove knock/hold resist stacks from enemies and not players, because knock/hold resist stacks on players literally have no effect anyways lol

    all things considered it still wouldn't be the worst update or change they've made in the past year if they actually implemented this.
    awol until further notice
  • redobsidianredobsidian Posts: 36 Arc User
    I just want to put my 2 cent in and say that as a dedicated support player i think all holds should be AoE in nature so that CC abilities can fit better in groups and also when soloing. Bindings of Aratron for example would definitely benefit from it. I would also like to see more dedicated support in various frameworks so it makes it easier to stick to your role, help your allies and yourself survive more and would love to see more abilities to Buff/ Debuff your targets.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 14,927 Arc User
    bluhman wrote: »
    If there already is one CC, then what does the other CC do?

    Apply damage debuffs. Pretend to be a dps. Accrue enough score to get rewards and then not worry about it. Maybe afterwards they can head to the forums and write a long post about how bad it made them feel, but I don't think they've been doing that?
    bluhman wrote: »
    You have such a raging blind hardon for control

    o3o ...I do? I mean I have the one CCer in my entire roster... sure I like to use holds on the majority of my toons but I don't think dpsers and tanks using holds is the topic here.
    bluhman wrote: »
    and yet what I see is using control as just a byproduct of normal building.

    What? what does "using control as a byproduct of normal building" mean?
    bluhman wrote: »
    You don't seem to understand in the slightest sense that it's a fundamentally broken, flawed, obsolete, hamfisted playstyle.

    Certainly doesn't feel that way when I god-mode the majority of content with it... wait, am I the one hamfisting the content with my control powers?

    bluhman wrote: »
    Cosmics are such a perfect example of this because cryptic had to defy their own standards of game mechanics to justify this aspect of gameplay. Up until they got revamped, Kigatiliks Dogs sure as heck weren't vulnerable to CC.

    Yes, the devs made it so that CC specialists have a place at cosmics, just like other specialists... is that a bad thing now? o3o should I feel bad for having made that CCer?​​
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