Mod to reduce healer aggro/threat

redcastle56

With all these new threat management mods coming out, how about one you can take to reduce threat generated by healing?
Playing my healer in fights where the tank is concentrating on the large boss, but there are other adds, (like the golems in Vikorin) The healer ends up getting all the aggro from the adds. I usually end up having to heal myself more then the tank, and die at least once during the disable because all the golems are targeting me.

aiqa

The golems only react to heal threat, and healers do so much more healing than a regular tank that you'd need almost -100% heal threat to avoid grabbing agro. I doubt they'd add anything like that.

The Vikorin fight is a bit to punishing on healers, but I think that needs to be changed in the fight not by adding some new gear. If you want to go for gear, just get some r9 fire resist mods.

pantagruel01

aiqa wrote: »

The Vikorin fight is a bit to punishing on healers, but I think that needs to be changed in the fight not by adding some new gear. If you want to go for gear, just get some r9 fire resist mods.

I use dodge gear and BCR w/resurgent reiki, but yes, it's pretty punishing on healers.

pjz99

Unless those targets on the healer are getting threat applied to them then no amount of healing threat reduction is going to help you unless it reduces it entirely to nothing, which I can't imagine they'll ever do. There's a lot of situations where enemy default target is going to be the support character due to aura buffing others, not just healing. I don't usually like to be negative towards suggestions but imo the problem is with your team's tactics, not that the threat mechanics need to be altered.

warcanch

pjz99 wrote: »

Unless those targets on the healer are getting threat applied to them then no amount of healing threat reduction is going to help you unless it reduces it entirely to nothing, which I can't imagine they'll ever do. There's a lot of situations where enemy default target is going to be the support character due to aura buffing others, not just healing. I don't usually like to be negative towards suggestions but imo the problem is with your team's tactics, not that the threat mechanics need to be altered.

In group content, it's long been my belief that the DPS's job is not just to dps. Protecting the healer is top priority. Melee dps has a difficult time of this. But, ranged or melee, I'm always looking out for my healer. Without this person, we get a cascade effect and the group wipes.

Now you say, it's the Tank's job to watch out for the healer. Of course, but so should the dps. Because that healer is critical to keeping everyone available to do their "jobs".

"Group content" does not mean only the healer and tank need to be aware of what's going on. Everyone needs to.​​

theglasskitten

These mods primarily seem useful to ATs. Freeforms have access to threat wipes which eliminate the use for these mods. Perhaps a better solution would be to give ATs more threat management options using existing powers.

If we are going to continue to get mods that are used by an extremely ~extremely~ small amount of players could we please get more Super Group bank tabs?

pantagruel01

warcanch wrote: »

In group content, it's long been my belief that the DPS's job is not just to dps.​​

Problem with the Vikorin fight is that the critters aggroing on the healer can't be attacked, so there's nothing the dps can do about them (I believe they can be hit by a PBAoE, though they're damage immune so it would need Challenge to have any effect).

pjz99

Is there a similar situation anywhere else in the game? Don't change base level mechanics to address a weird design in a single piece of content.

pantagruel01

pjz99 wrote: »

Is there a similar situation anywhere else in the game?

Not that I can think of off-hand.

redcastle56

While Vikorin is the most egregious case of healer aggro, I have run into other cases where I grab aggro of random mobs, particularly if no one is using high damage AoE's. So its rare, but there are cases where threat reduction on the healer could drop them below what tanks and DPS are putting out in incidental AoE damage. True that it might not get a lot of use, but how much use to the threat mods get anyway. At least its something meaningful for healers.

What about the reverse. Healing based threat add mods. Generate more threat while self healing? An alternative to confronts. Generating threat based on taking and healing damage.

warcanch

pantagruel01 wrote: »

warcanch wrote: »

In group content, it's long been my belief that the DPS's job is not just to dps.

Problem with the Vikorin fight is that the critters aggroing on the healer can't be attacked, so there's nothing the dps can do about them (I believe they can be hit by a PBAoE, though they're damage immune so it would need Challenge to have any effect).

Ah, yeah.

Sounds like the DPSers need to put ON their Defender Gloves! We know they have em. ​​

pantagruel01

redcastle56 wrote: »

So its rare, but there are cases where threat reduction on the healer could drop them below what tanks and DPS are putting out in incidental AoE damage.

Usual problem is that any amount of threat is larger than zero, and the stuff targeting the healer isn't being hit. You'd have to change the basics of how healing threat works.

pjz99

There are AOE threat wipes you can take if you really think this is a bad problem, but tbh you should be ready to block and your fellow players should be looking out for you. I have around 8 support characters with a wide variety of builds that I play regularly and I haven't ever felt like "healer aggro" was intolerably hard, even in situations like the Slug QWZ Open Mission where there are phases that are practically tailor made to kill the healer.

e: this is such a standard thing in practically every MMO I've ever heard of it's a meme

theglasskitten

Palliate is a great threat wipe for support users if you take the advantage. It’s a great emergency heal and is also fun to boost CCers presence with during things like red orb phases at eido.

markhawkman

redcastle56 wrote: »

While Vikorin is the most egregious case of healer aggro, I have run into other cases where I grab aggro of random mobs, particularly if no one is using high damage AoE's. So its rare, but there are cases where threat reduction on the healer could drop them below what tanks and DPS are putting out in incidental AoE damage. True that it might not get a lot of use, but how much use to the threat mods get anyway. At least its something meaningful for healers.

What about the reverse. Healing based threat add mods. Generate more threat while self healing? An alternative to confronts. Generating threat based on taking and healing damage.

#1 example that comes to my mind? StE. Freshly respawned mobs get heal threat and nothing else.

deadman20

The thing about healing aggro is that if nobody else can apply threat to a target via attacking the only alternative is to out-threat the healer by healing. It's not going to matter if you reduce healing threat if there's nothing else to contest it. Funnily enough though, Hybrid healers can get away with out-aggroing Support healers exceptionally well. They can build more defensively than a Support healer while maintaining similar healing output. The kicker here is that Hybrid doesn't get the threat modifier that Support does, so they can generate more threat out of the box. It'll be a bit more selfish, but if all you need is healing then it's not a bad idea to forego having an aura buff in place of some extra survivability.

But, that's just my solution: Don't look to gear and mods, build a tougher healer instead.​​

lezard21

aiqa wrote: »

The Vikorin fight is a bit to punishing on healers,

This is not just a thing for Vikorin. This is true for most endgame content in CO. There is no single fight that is equally demanding for all parts involved.

Kiga is punishing for the CCer.
Dino is punishing for the Tanks
Eido is punishing for the DPS
Teleios is punishing for the healer.

It's a design problem.

(Qwyjibo is the only fight that is not punishing for anyone, but that is also a problem in itself too)​​

pantagruel01

lezard21 wrote: »

(Qwyjibo is the only fight that is not punishing for anyone, but that is also a problem in itself too)​​

Qwjibo is punishing for squishies.

lezard21

With punishing I mean that the one person failing to do his role properly guarantees a wipe.

(Granted in the case of Eido it's the collective of DPS failing that causes the wipe, but if the tank or healers screw up, Eido just runs amok out of control for a bit without it being a wipe)​​

deadman20

lezard21 wrote: »

but if the tank or healers screw up, Eido just runs amok out of control for a bit without it being a wipe)

There've been times (the extra rare times when I DO show up to an Eddy run) where the tank died and Mr. Hybrid got the aggro. Somehow it worked out as a means to let the real tank get aggro built back up after they were revived.​​

spinnytop

deadman20 wrote: »

lezard21 wrote: »

but if the tank or healers screw up, Eido just runs amok out of control for a bit without it being a wipe)

There've been times (the extra rare times when I DO show up to an Eddy run) where the tank died and Mr. Hybrid got the aggro. Somehow it worked out as a means to let the real tank get aggro built back up after they were revived.

That's cause hybrids are awesome, more hybrids at Edio \o/​​

pantagruel01

deadman20 wrote: »

There've been times (the extra rare times when I DO show up to an Eddy run) where the tank died and Mr. Hybrid got the aggro.​​

Usually what I see is dual-passive tank/dps setups do that, not hybrids.

spinnytop

pantagruel01 wrote: »

deadman20 wrote: »

There've been times (the extra rare times when I DO show up to an Eddy run) where the tank died and Mr. Hybrid got the aggro.

Usually what I see is dual-passive tank/dps setups do that, not hybrids.

Yeah but deadman is talking about times where a hybrid got the aggro.​​

pantagruel01

spinnytop wrote: »

Yeah but deadman is talking about times where a hybrid got the aggro.​​

I don't recall ever seeing that happen, though I won't say impossible. I've seen the dual-passive thing happen multiple times.

spinnytop

pantagruel01 wrote: »

spinnytop wrote: »

Yeah but deadman is talking about times where a hybrid got the aggro.

I don't recall ever seeing that happen, though I won't say impossible. I've seen the dual-passive thing happen multiple times.

Well I've never seen anyone eat a 10 pound steak, but when someone tells me they saw someone do that my response isn't "Usually I see people eat pork chops" o3o just sayin'​​

williamkony

As others have said, short of -100% healing aggro, mods wouldn't fix the problem. What'd need to happen is for tanks to generate aggro on enemies they're not actually hitting. Such a thing could maybe be placed on the defender gloves, though that makes them even more essential than they already are for tanking. It'd probably be better to change the base system to toss out a wee percentage of the tank's damage as universal aggro.

deadman20

pantagruel01 wrote: »

spinnytop wrote: »

Yeah but deadman is talking about times where a hybrid got the aggro.

I don't recall ever seeing that happen, though I won't say impossible. I've seen the dual-passive thing happen multiple times.

Mostly because I'm typically the only Hybrid anyone tolerates in an Eidolon run.

Most people don't build directly for Hybrid anyway. Dual Passive characters have better capacity to be "either/or" as a situation is demanded, unlike the Hybrid where it just "is" 24/7. Most of the time, it's easier to have the switch to flip when something is needed, as opposed to trying to do it all at once and stretch resources thin.

I don't do Eido very much, but the few times I HAVE there have been moments where my Hybrid had to hold onto the big aggro while a recovery was made. It's not foolproof, but it's something.​​

spinnytop

williamkony wrote: »

As others have said, short of -100% healing aggro, mods wouldn't fix the problem. What'd need to happen is for tanks to generate aggro on enemies they're not actually hitting. Such a thing could maybe be placed on the defender gloves, though that makes them even more essential than they already are for tanking. It'd probably be better to change the base system to toss out a wee percentage of the tank's damage as universal aggro.

I dunno... does tanking really need to become even easier? Tanks just gotta run around and smack stuff more. More active gameplay, not less!​​