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Not so Distinguished
nacito
Posts: 983 Arc User
This gear was meant to be the defensive option for people, with Justice being for dps and Virtuous for healers.
But Virtuous at the moment is better for both tanking and healing, and Distinguished is not really that worth anymore. this was a sub product of nerfing wardicator loop a while ago, this gear needs to shine again somehow.
I suggest either give it a flat +% damage resistance, more defense, or anything, if you need to get rid of other stats in the gear like knock in the freedom one or dodge/avoidance in agility, do it, just make this gear worth the grind.
Point is, make this gear THE tank gear.
Edit:
https://forum.arcgames.com/championsonline/discussion/1212702/distinguished-gear-suggestion
Vexx made a post about this, linking it
But Virtuous at the moment is better for both tanking and healing, and Distinguished is not really that worth anymore. this was a sub product of nerfing wardicator loop a while ago, this gear needs to shine again somehow.
I suggest either give it a flat +% damage resistance, more defense, or anything, if you need to get rid of other stats in the gear like knock in the freedom one or dodge/avoidance in agility, do it, just make this gear worth the grind.
Point is, make this gear THE tank gear.
Edit:
https://forum.arcgames.com/championsonline/discussion/1212702/distinguished-gear-suggestion
Vexx made a post about this, linking it
Just another reptile lover, known in game as @nacito
This is a big journey, so far if you're reading this, wish you a good day
This is a big journey, so far if you're reading this, wish you a good day
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wanted to clarify that just in case
Additionally, needing critical chance on a tank is also a bad sign. It's literally not needed unless you want nothing but aggro, or you're a focus tank. And even then, having dex is good enough. You don't need it, the offense from distinguished is better due to vindicator giving it back as defense, plus its just more damage anyway.
Distinguished doesn't really need anything. Aggro problems aren't related to gear, its related to statting, mods, and your rotations.
You might be wondering why I brought that up when the OP talked about resistances. Well, that's because people think Justice is best because of damage. In reality you're just a squishier tank that does slightly more damage with Justice.
Distinguished still makes you a slightly tankier tank that does less damage.
However, once specs get put into play, The wardicator fix made distinguished better in that regard honestly. As a matter of fact, my main tank got a pretty big EHP increase as a result of the change, while on full distinguished, even if I don't have the 240%+ plus damage resistance I had prior.
It's pretty much fine where its at. It doesn't need a threat buff, it doesn't need a resistance buff, if anything, distinguished gear's dodge chance needs to be upped ONLY because it still doesn't make a lick of gat dang sense to me that legion's gear has more dodge chance than it. I guess it makes sense in the sense it has both dodge and avoid? But it could just have the sum of the avoid/dodge as dodge chance instead, frankly. That goes for all the agility defenses for all three sets, though.
Might as well just rename Virtuous to "All the actually good things" Gear
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I meant this as well btw mahoff, it's not about threat or agro or any of that, its the +10% resistance par of that gear that makes it better than dist for tanking, why nerfing virtuous when it's easier to just fix dist? you know, to actually make it better for what WAS meant for a more defensive end game gear?
This is a big journey, so far if you're reading this, wish you a good day
stop eating my posts reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
I MEAN
The thing is Virtuous was never actually the "Healing" gear. Justice set offered more healing thanks to it's healing glove offering a 30% bonus healing vs Virtuous 15%, it's offense that gets converted into healing bonus with Repurpose spec AND the 10 extra Superstat points.
If anything Virtuous was the "Hybrid" set. It was more defensive than Justice, and it was more offensive than Distinguished.
Pre-Wardicator nerf Distinguished offered 2-3% more damage mitigation than Virtuous and 5-6% more damage mitigation than Justice. It probably offered the same amount as Virtuous if you didn't take Wardicator (this part is speculation since I didn't test it back then RIP) but HEY that was not a problem back then since Wardicator was the be-all end-all of Cosmic aggro fight tanking, amarite? ^_^
Post-Wardicator nerf however (as you can see in @spinnytop 's informative chart that he posted in the topic I made about this same issue last August which I will not link cause nazi forums hate links) Virtuos was only offering 0.5% more damage mitigation than Justice AND was lagging 2% behind Virtuous. How anyone got more EHP on the same build post-wardicator nerf is beyond me.
So, TL;DR
Pre-Wardicator Nerf
Offense: Justice > Virtuous > Distinguished
Defense: Distinguished > Virtuous > Justice
Healing: Justice > Virtuous > Distinguished
Post-Wardicator Nerf
Offense: Justice>Virtuous>Distinguished
Defense:Virtuous > Justice = Distinguished
Healing: Justice > Virtuous > Distinguished
So you see, asking for Virtuous to be nerfed is perphaps the worst possible suggestion anyone could make since Virtuous is not overperforming now or ever. It was and still is the Hybrid gear, only now Distinguished sucks super bad ^_^
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Calling anything hybrid, and then saying it should be 'more' than something else is a bit of an error in my opinion considering hybrid in CO means jack of all trades. If it was truly the hybrid set, it would be less than both in those regards. Additionally, Justice was the first set and had no chances to compensate for future item sets.
I'd also like to point out that, there was clearly a plan with these sets on creation, and I highly doubt it involved having pieces thrown around willy nilly like that. No one or two parts of a set should be considered irrelevant just because another set has a stat that doesn't make sense for it. Furthermore, virtuous gauntlets can give more healing in cases which one simply doesn't want to get justice gear. Virtuous as a full set also has 38% bonus healing on top of the 15%.
In conclusion, Justice was made to work for everyone's needs, Distinguished came as an option for tanks, and Virtuous came as an option for healers. there is no 'hybrid' set. Just one okay gear set, one fine as is gear set, and one that needs a change due to clearly overstepping its boundaries.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
If you're trying to say that people don't purchase "Freedom" gear types because people don't care about knock or hold resistance, that doesn't make much sense because CC Resistance stat does not affect knock or hold resistance. CC Resistance affects your ability to break out of things like roots. Knock and hold are different categories of powers.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Last time I checked, hold resistance affects stun, paralyze, incapacitate. You only get hold resistance from EGO stat bonuses and the CON primary spec. CC resistance doesn't affect stun, paralyze, and incapacitate. You get CC resistance from PRE stat bonuses. If you can remember playing on a healer vs. an EGO dps, it's no easier to break out from holds on a healer from a non-EGO statted character but on an EGO dps, breaking out of holds is near instant. That's because CC resistance doesn't affect holds, only hold resistance affects holds.
I'll go do a full test.
Yeah, let's start with this point right here o3o
Virtuous offers: 15% healing bonus on gloves, 38% healing on set, 15 Presence (Superstat) and 0 Offense. 0 x 0.3 Repurpose = 0 additional healing. Total of 53% bonus healing + 15 Presence (with high enough Presence this represents nothing)
Justice offers: 30% healing bonus on gloves, 0% healing on set, 25 Presence (Superstat) and 147 Offense. 147 Offense x 0.3 Repurpose = 44% healing bonus. Total of 74% bonus healing + 25 Presence (again with high enough Presence this represents nothing).
It was. Re:my 2nd reply to this thread (the one forums didn't eat). Here, I painted in yellow Virtuous position relative to the other gear sets so it's easier to see:
Agreed on the Justice set part coming at a time it didn't have any other gear set to compete against. Disagree on the rest.
If Virtuous was made to be the healer gear it failed and still fails to do so. Distinguished WAS an option for tanks but now it's overshadowed by the 2 other sets. So all in all we currently have a Healing set that is not the best healing set, and a Tanking set that is not the best tanking set by a long mile.
But Virtuous didn't overstep it's boundaries o3o Virtuous was created as more offense than Distinguished and more Defense than Justice. That was it's original boundary, one from which it hasn't move. What did move was Distinguished, it moved backwards when Wardicator got nerfed. Here, I painted in red the variable that changed positions in time so it's easier to see:
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Yeah we were just noticing that too. What the frick @kaizerin o3o That should totally read 70% CC resistance, there's an extra /100 there that wasn't there before.
Ok, you're right. Did a full test and learned stuff. Here are the results: https://i.imgur.com/hS3VreF.png
Interestingly, CC resistance only shows to be useful against stuns.
That explains a lot and seems like a bug.
The purpose of CC resistance should be for when you do miss a block or for those non-resistable CC effects. I think what you say indicates that CC resistance at the moment doesn't do enough or that players have no way of obtaining enough of it for it to be useful. The test that I did was with two R9 Sents and OV freedom gear which is near the higher end of amount of CC resistance you can get without specs and even with that much it hardly helps unless you are against a stun and it is outclassed by EGO modding. It's a weird situation how CC resistance has resistance to CC as its dedicated purpose yet EGO's secondary effect surpasses it.
I think it's worth considering giving Distinguished gear a huge bonus to CC resistance. Something like +150-+200 CC resistance would be a step towards making it a unique, valuable, and effective defensive choice for an endgame gear.
Ok, you're right. I did a full test and learned a lot: https://i.imgur.com/hS3VreF.png
That explains a lot and seems like a bug.
CC resistance should be for when you do miss a block or those non-resistable CC effects. I think what you say indicates that CC resistance doesn't do enough at the current moment or that players can't get enough of it for the stat to be useful. The test I did above was with two R9 Sentinels and an OV Freedom gear which is near the highest end of CC resistance that you can get with gear and the shown benefit doesn't seem to be very much especially when you consider that you could have put in more defense or health into your gear.
I think it's worth considering adding a huge CC resistance increase to Distinguished gear. Something like +150-200 CC Resistance would be the start of making Distinguished a lot more unique, effective, and defensive over other endgame gear sets.
**** these forums ate my post again
Maybe. The issue there is that now you're not just buffing Distinguished gear, you're also buffing Justice and a bunch of builds as well, some of which are already performing very well.
On the other hand, what about adding a % increase to base damage to Distinguished's 3 piece set bonus?, and also bumping up the amount of Defense it gives? That could put it closer to, or even past Virtuous in regards to mitigation, and give it the role of "steady damage" gear, in contrast to Justice and Virt being "rng-ish crit damage" gear. I know tanks in MMOs have historically valued steady damage, and this also makes it not uninteresting to DPS.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained