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Feedback Thread: Nemesis Passives

kaizerinkaizerin Posts: 2,015 Cryptic Developer
Use this thread to discuss any changes made to Nemesis in this current PTS cycle.

FC.31.20190108.1

Nemesis
  • All Nemesis now have standardized passives that grant damage bonuses and resistances. They also grant a stack of a form buff for power interaction purposes. This has been done somewhat normalize Nemesis difficulty.
  • All Nemesis now have a block power that they can start using at low health.
  • Force Field Nemesis: Now has a power that applies a shield on them.
  • Infernal Nemesis: Now has a lesser version of Pestilence called Cloud of Flies.
  • Bestial Nemesis: Bite and Thrash power now more reliably heal them. Will no longer get stuck in a Frenzy attack loop.



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Comments

  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 5,833 Arc User
    Is there a way we could get a nemesis spawner? It's something of a hassle to actually find your nemesis to fight it.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 14,488 Arc User
    Is there a way we could get a nemesis spawner? It's something of a hassle to actually find your nemesis to fight it.

    For testing purposes this would be very useful.​​
  • kaizerinkaizerin Posts: 2,015 Cryptic Developer
    I'll see if we can do something that does that.​​
  • rtmartma Posts: 1,169 Arc User
    This sounds promising, does that mean they'll all get passives again? last I checked some didn't have any, does Regen/Invulnerability passives work like the players? having xxxx Heal over time/Damage Resist+Flat Absorption? cause they're mainly a joke as far as encounters go right now on Live.
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  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 7,757 Arc User
    Weapon skins for Nemeses?
    Plis.
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  • andondarkmoreandondarkmore Posts: 392 Arc User
    This may make STE and vigilance a bit harder and may need team/Build geared toward being able to complete mission/alert. Basing this on getting a lot of character death perks doing STE.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 14,488 Arc User
    edited January 10
    What I got from this is that all nemesis will have the same passive that all do the same thing, not different individual passives. We'll know later today when we get together and test stuff in STE ^_^​​
    Post edited by spinnytop on
  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,184 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    What I got from this is that all nemesis will have the same passive that all do the same thing, not different individual passives. We'll know later today when we get together and test stuff in STE ^_^​​

    Actually.... no. Tested it tonight with three Nemesis characters and they had different passives and forms by attack type (Gadgeteering had KM and Conc, Melee seemed to have Defiance and Enrage!). Nothing too OP with a Level 30 character running through Lemurian Antiquities, although the Ranged Nemesis could be a bit spicy with eight Conc stacks.

  • kaizerinkaizerin Posts: 2,015 Cryptic Developer
    All the passives have the same effect, just different names based on Nemesis type.​​
  • zamuelpwezamuelpwe Posts: 602 Arc User
    kaizerin wrote: »
    Infernal Nemesis: Now has a lesser version of Pestilence called Cloud of Flies.
    Will the default Nemeses be altered so that they aren't all using Infernal powers? While part of me wants to comment on editing some of the more egregious outfits on them, them all having the same powerset is more on topic.
    kaizerin wrote: »
    All Nemesis now have standardized passives that grant damage bonuses and resistances. They also grant a stack of a form buff for power interaction purposes. This has been done somewhat normalize Nemesis difficulty.
    Which ones have people tested so far? I won't be able to get on tonight but Darkness and Gadgeteering are mainly on my radar. Darkness to make sure it didn't jump back to the older healing values and Gadgeteering is to see if it isn't so heavily defense skewed anymore.
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 14,488 Arc User
    edited January 11
    zamuelpwe wrote: »
    Darkness to make sure it didn't jump back to the older healing values and Gadgeteering is to see if it isn't so heavily defense skewed anymore.

    Well, given that Darkness nemesi no longer have any self healing from their passive I'd say that's safe.​​
  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 528 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    zamuelpwe wrote: »
    Darkness to make sure it didn't jump back to the older healing values and Gadgeteering is to see if it isn't so heavily defense skewed anymore.

    Well, given that Darkness nemesi no longer have any self healing from their passive I'd say that's safe.

    If it were just a case of it being from that and not part of the spaghetti code. Don't say SAFE just yet. Otherwise, yeah.​​
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 14,488 Arc User
    Well that's why we gotta get in there and test it! Just gotta get 5 people together to que for PTS STE​​
  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,184 Arc User
    I tried Gadgeteering (plenty of knocks) and Bestial Supernatural. Nothing too worrying to be honest, but I'd like to see how they perform in STE or one of the Nemesis lairs.
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,598 Arc User
    Does anyone have any information on what % bonus damage their forms are granting per stack?
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 14,488 Arc User
    Does anyone have any information on what % bonus damage their forms are granting per stack?

    As far as I know nobody has tested anything. We should go do STE on PTS o3o​​
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 14,488 Arc User
    edited January 13
    Okay so we did a test. We did 2 STEs and we did 2 Nemcons.

    In Nemcon we went up against a bunch of different nem types and they all seemed to take about the same amount of time now. The single blade one didn't die in like 3 seconds, so that's noteworthy. Overall they all kinda seemed to melt a bit too fast though? Like the might one would have taken way longer before and now it seemed to go down faster than even most would have. Also there were some oddities with the passives, like the PA one had Unstoppable, and single blade had Lightning Reflexs, and Bestial just had one called Supernatural. None of that seemed to have any mechanical effect tho, just weird names.

    First STE was against a Might nem, second one was against a Bestial nem. They melted really really fast, like wowsers bowsers. Took less than a minute, so they are much squishier than before.

    They did their block thing, and it reduced the damage they took by a lot, so that was neat. The Bestial one either never used their heal attack or it doesn't heal for enough to matter. Infernal one's aura was barely noticable. Didn't face a Force nem unfortunately and by that point everyone else was being a huge baby and wanted to go back to live u3u

    So they're all kinda evened out, but feel a bit too squishy compared to before.​​
    Post edited by spinnytop on
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,598 Arc User
    edited January 15
    I think its important to remember that "our builds" (not sure if I can be so bold as to claim my gear is that good but hey, I will) are not really representative of what I ASSUME most players would be running.

    Has anyone tested with Pick up/Merc/Heroic Gears?
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,598 Arc User
    Also, how did you guys not have so many nemesis minions spawning in either phase? It seemed very "calm"? There's usually about triple that amount on STE runs I've done with PUG's and pre-formed teams...maybe I'm doing it wrong?
  • riveroceanriverocean Posts: 1,645 Arc User
    edited January 15
    Maybe it would make more sense to simply give all Nemesis the same standardized passive?

    This new "Nemesis" Passive would grant a decent amount of damage resistance to all damage types, a form stack, and a little healing. This might make it easier to standardize and update them versus varied power levels of players. Rather then trying to tweak separate passives for each Nemesis power tree.

    I'm really happy to see Nemesis get some attention and work. Thank you devs.

    Another suggestion. I really wish that Nemesis had an aura buff that empowered their nearby minions. The way that some of the bosses in War Zone do.
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  • genericheronamegenericheroname Posts: 13 Arc User
    Super happy you guys are doing something with the nemesis system. Its one of the more unique things this game has. Any chance we could get "rename nemesis" function?
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 14,488 Arc User
    edited January 15
    riverocean wrote: »
    Maybe it would make more sense to simply give all Nemesis the same standardized passive?

    That's exactly what they did.
    kaizerin wrote: »
    [*] All Nemesis now have standardized passives that grant damage bonuses and resistances. They also grant a stack of a form buff for power interaction purposes. This has been done somewhat normalize Nemesis difficulty.
    kaizerin wrote: »
    All the passives have the same effect, just different names based on Nemesis type.

    So yes good idea o3o

    I'm making a big deal about this because this isn't the first time in this thread that people haven't gotten that this is the thing that is what was done.​​
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 14,488 Arc User
    edited January 15
    I think its important to remember that "our builds" (not sure if I can be so bold as to claim my gear is that good but hey, I will) are not really representative of what I ASSUME most players would be running.

    Has anyone tested with Pick up/Merc/Heroic Gears?

    That wouldn't make a good comparison since I've never put together a group of people in that gear for STE before so what would I be comparing the results to? I have however had all high-end build groups before, with like one healer or one tank and 4 high-end dps, and this group that we tested with on PTS wasn't that, and we downed the bosses in about half or a third of the time the all high-end groups would. There was a dps there using compassion, and I was on my guardian/sentinal toon.

    In this video the boss fight starts at 3:40 and the boss is done by 4:47. And I actually died early in this fight so they were down 1 toon the entire fight. Now that I rewatch it I notice Panta went down during it too! And this was the one where we didn't pull the boss down to the lower floor, so the adds became an issue; notice how at 4:20 to 4:47 damage kinda stalls because people are dealing with the adds - without the adds pestering us, the fight would have ended at 4:22 or so. In the 2nd STE we pulled the boss down to the floor and that's the one that really melted because there were no issues with adds and nobody died, so the boss melted in like 30 seconds.

    Now keep in mind this was not an STE change, this was a change to nemesis in all content. The nemesis in STE was already the easiest part, and nemesis in the game in general have been known as wet noodles all these years that get dropped so fast that it's comedy, so I don't think that they really needed a nerf to their time-to-kill. With it like this we're all gonna be one-shotting our nemesis! Know what I'm sayin?


    Somewhat off-topic STE suggestion: During the final phase of STE, add a forcefield that is parallel to the disc where the nemesis starts that prevents us from pulling the nemesis away from their henchmen! Melee nemesis are currently much easier than ranged henchmen because of this tactic. This would also make the nemesis's new ability to block much more useful if they have their henchmen around.
    Also, how did you guys not have so many nemesis minions spawning in either phase? It seemed very "calm"? There's usually about triple that amount on STE runs I've done with PUG's and pre-formed teams...maybe I'm doing it wrong?

    This is what all of my STE runs look like so long as people don't trigger the bug with the entrance on the first floor. The level can only spawn so many adds, so if you're running add control then it keeps the numbers pretty reasonable. You'd have to be more specific with what you actually mean for me to give a more specific answer - feel free to send me a PM about that!​​
  • spookyspectrespookyspectre Posts: 153 Arc User
    I'm curious about the bug with the entrance on the first floor? I've been on STE runs where we seem to get overrun with minions and eveyone keeps dying, respawning, running into the first floor, redying, etc.. Is that the bug you're mentioning?
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 14,488 Arc User
    I'm curious about the bug with the entrance on the first floor? I've been on STE runs where we seem to get overrun with minions and eveyone keeps dying, respawning, running into the first floor, redying, etc.. Is that the bug you're mentioning?

    Yes that one.​​
  • lordxanadulordxanadu Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited January 16
    Ugh, I somehow deleted my post apparently. Will retype it.

    I have run through Several of the nemesis missions on test and these are my impressions.

    I ran through Bunker Buster set on Hard difficulty with my top Munitions DPS character vs. his Munitions nemesis. As usual, the mercenaries that are with him at the end, were more of a threat than he was. Although he did live a bit longer than usual, long enough for me to burn him down at the end in a few seconds.

    I ran through Deathray Demolition with my top cosmic geared Sorcery DPS character vs. his Sorcery nemesis. I went through on both Hard and Elite mode. In both cases the nemesis was killed in a few seconds, including the triple threat at the end. I could see he had the speed buff from the difficulty buff, but his power level didn't seem appreciably higher.

    I ran through Recumbent Incumbent/Violent Majority on my tough, Power Armor hybrid vs. his Power Armor nemesis. I went through on both Hard and Elite difficulty. Again, in both cases the nemesis died almost immediately. The Elite difficulty made Gargoyle harder to fight but didn't seem to help the nemesis much as he was defeated by the guards while I fought Gargoyle.

    Afraid that I was being biased by good builds, I tried to think of the worst case scenario, which for me would be that some of my Healers/Crowd Controllers, have little to no offensive capability and are dependent on devices when they need to solo something. I went through Deathray Demolition again on Normal mode, using nothing but a Purple Demon Become device, which is what some of my healers would use. In this case, the fight was a little more evenly matched, atleast offensively. Meaning, I was hurting him about as much as he was hurting me but I had the Rocket Hawks with me, and they still killed him pretty handily.

    My recommendation is that at least the defensive portion of the Nemesis passive be made a little beefier.

    I also recommend that the Lava Beast in Deathray Demolition be buffed as well. The poor guy doesn't even have time to attack before he dies.
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