My main problem is with the history of Eidolon fights
Initial release: Fight wasn't all that challenging and the initial and occasional fails steamed from people being too used to no following instructions.
Devs touch Eidolon.
Fight became a little bit harder, but not much. Fight is still pretty much desorganized and Eido still gets beaten regularly
Devs touch Eidolon again.
Ok, now we are talking. We were stumped for like a month or two of failings, but eventually we come up with a strategy that works, a strategy that requires pre-organization, people knowing what to do and people following instructions. Eido is defeated quite often not out of people hitting their heads against a brickwall till finally bringing it down, but out of people learning the fight and working to improve themselves (remember those "Do X bajillion damage on dummy and you win 500 keys" challenges vixy used to make?)
...devs touch Eido again. Eido Gets Bugged: The Prologue.
Now Eido's red phase may or may not happen. This upsets people and Eido fails start to happen. 1 maybe 2 months due to events, but eventually people AGAIN learn what they have to do in order for the fight to succeed. Eido fails and succeeds are quite even at this point.
...
...
...
DEVS TOUCHA THE EIDO AGAIN!
Eidolon Of Electric Boogaloo 2: The Bugs Strike Back
For whatever reason devs decide now it's the best time to fix Eidolon not using all of it's orbs anchors and in doing so end up giving Orbs a 40-50% increase in damage resistance. Eido stops happening for more than 6 months, and when it does happen, the win ratio is of less than 20%.
There were 2 points in this whole history where the fight was fine. It was a final boss. It was climatic. It was not an HP punch bag like Qwyjibo or Kiga where only 2 people are important. Everyone had to work for the success. And we did. And we succeeded.
But this boss was designed with the stupid notion in mind that "It's the final boss people shouldn't beat him so often" which is a fine notion to have if it translates to "new or unexperienced people shouldn't beat him so often", but it doesn't. It literally translates to "no one should beat him so often", which is an incorrect notion to have, because as with any videogame, once people start getting experienced they will inevitably beat him every single time, hell, there are people that can speedrun Dark Souls 3 in 40 minutes without getting hit even once, and you don't see Miyazaki going "mmmmmmm we better patch the game to make it harder!".
...devs touch Eido again. Eido Gets Bugged: The Prologue.
Actually, this statement is not true. There were zero deliberate Eidolon changes in the patch that introduced either the red bug, or the green bug. Problem is crappy spaghetti code game driver.
...devs touch Eido again. Eido Gets Bugged: The Prologue.
Actually, this statement is not true. There were zero deliberate Eidolon changes in the patch that introduced either the red bug, or the green bug. Problem is crappy spaghetti code game driver.
Fair enough. The bug that made Red Phase randomly not happen happened randomly, as well as the increased damage reistance on orbs (this one I doubt it happened randomly but I can't find my tinfoil). But then as if to overkill it, they made it so that green and red orbs used all their available spawn points. That couldn't have come at a worst possible time.
Does we even have a CC more then 5 in game for successful Eidolon?
Another question that could be asked is "Do we even have more than 5 endgame CCers in the game?". Standing around at Kiga can often make it feel like we don't even have that many.
Yes, how dare you and your band of filthy hooligans keep proving me right. o3o
So wronnngg because we just avoided greens but kept hit Eidolon at the last moment before it explode in 10 seconds. Its so gamble.
Miracle happened but we got wiped after defeat and the server went down.
Its so much wronnngg. o3o
Sure, it's just a hair overtuned for the players available in the game. Dino dps test are estimated at a per player average of 10,000 damage over 5 seconds, at least in the 20-35 player range (this may not be entirely accurate, but it's the usual estimate). A green orb dps test, with a full zone, is 29,000 damage over 10 seconds, and unlike the dino, you can't just accumulate damage on all targets, you have to accurately split up and make sure each of three targets has its full damage total met. Also, the dino test for a 20 player run is still ~10k per player over 5s, the green orb test would at that point be 43,500 per player over 10s.
the green orb test would at that point be 43,500 per player over 10s.
Is this accounting for Orb resistance? Cause that would put required DPS to be 4.3k, or 4 bursts of 10k per player in 10 seconds which is fairly easy to achieve, yet in practice runs with 20 people fail by a whole lot unless orbs are super good position
It is not, but it also isn't counting Cosmic resistance, which substantial. Required powerhouse dps would be in the 5-6k range. Counting just the dps, 7-8k each (though you're getting auras you wouldn't get in the PH).
It is not, but it also isn't counting Cosmic resistance, which substantial. Required powerhouse dps would be in the 5-6k range. Counting just the dps, 7-8k each (though you're getting auras you wouldn't get in the PH).
The 10k DPS estimate for Dino I calculated way back when was using live parser data from a Dino fight and calculating the average between damage done during a succesfull check and damage done during a failed check, meaning aura and damage resistance discrepancies were taken into account. Granted the data pool I used was small.
The 10k DPS estimate for Dino I calculated way back when was using live parser data from a Dino fight and calculating the average between damage done during a succesfull check and damage done during a failed check, meaning aura and damage resistance discrepancies were taken into account. Granted the data pool I used was small.
Typical cosmic damage resistance is similar to orb damage resistance, though it is less variable.
Sadly, we could not say 'welcome!' to random AT or PvPers coming even for a very few amounts meanwhile... We must be soak in every role, gathering only in private channel and do every things so much correctly.
I wanna try 50/50 for my DPS build next btw.
Someone make a soak AoRP/AoED Eidolon optimized healer build. For meh.
I did 50/50 in my Healer. Yay I made it finally!!!!!!
Hey devs, how about since you don't want to get off your asses to fix Eido, then you just remove him and give the players his costume pieces? Most of the player base likely could've got their 50 wins by now if he was never fucked around with in the first place.
Hey devs, how about since you don't want to get off your asses to fix Eido, then you just remove him and give the players his costume pieces? Most of the player base likely could've got their 50 wins by now if he was never fucked around with in the first place.
Hey devs, how about since you don't want to get off your asses to fix Eido, then you just remove him and give the players his costume pieces? Most of the player base likely could've got their 50 wins by now if he was never fucked around with in the first place.
Better yet, just remove the costume pieces since that seems to be the real problem.
Do the traditional thing (for example, what happened to weapons unlocks when they removed power replacers). Make the costume pieces no longer available in game, but people who already have them unlocked still have them. Then, years later, rerelease them as rewards for new content.
Oh wait. That doesn't differ substantially from the way it currently is...
Comments
Initial release: Fight wasn't all that challenging and the initial and occasional fails steamed from people being too used to no following instructions.
Devs touch Eidolon.
Fight became a little bit harder, but not much. Fight is still pretty much desorganized and Eido still gets beaten regularly
Devs touch Eidolon again.
Ok, now we are talking. We were stumped for like a month or two of failings, but eventually we come up with a strategy that works, a strategy that requires pre-organization, people knowing what to do and people following instructions. Eido is defeated quite often not out of people hitting their heads against a brickwall till finally bringing it down, but out of people learning the fight and working to improve themselves (remember those "Do X bajillion damage on dummy and you win 500 keys" challenges vixy used to make?)
...devs touch Eido again. Eido Gets Bugged: The Prologue.
Now Eido's red phase may or may not happen. This upsets people and Eido fails start to happen. 1 maybe 2 months due to events, but eventually people AGAIN learn what they have to do in order for the fight to succeed. Eido fails and succeeds are quite even at this point.
...
...
...
DEVS TOUCHA THE EIDO AGAIN!
Eidolon Of Electric Boogaloo 2: The Bugs Strike Back
For whatever reason devs decide now it's the best time to fix Eidolon not using all of it's orbs anchors and in doing so end up giving Orbs a 40-50% increase in damage resistance. Eido stops happening for more than 6 months, and when it does happen, the win ratio is of less than 20%.
There were 2 points in this whole history where the fight was fine. It was a final boss. It was climatic. It was not an HP punch bag like Qwyjibo or Kiga where only 2 people are important. Everyone had to work for the success. And we did. And we succeeded.
But this boss was designed with the stupid notion in mind that "It's the final boss people shouldn't beat him so often" which is a fine notion to have if it translates to "new or unexperienced people shouldn't beat him so often", but it doesn't. It literally translates to "no one should beat him so often", which is an incorrect notion to have, because as with any videogame, once people start getting experienced they will inevitably beat him every single time, hell, there are people that can speedrun Dark Souls 3 in 40 minutes without getting hit even once, and you don't see Miyazaki going "mmmmmmm we better patch the game to make it harder!".
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Happened around 01:00 AM PST. Failed with lack of people.
Monthly ratio changed, 13 fails and 3 wins. 81% fail chance vs 19% win ratio.
Fair enough. The bug that made Red Phase randomly not happen happened randomly, as well as the increased damage reistance on orbs (this one I doubt it happened randomly but I can't find my tinfoil). But then as if to overkill it, they made it so that green and red orbs used all their available spawn points. That couldn't have come at a worst possible time.
Happened but failed.
Monthly ratio changed, 14 fails and 3 wins. 82% fail vs 18% win ratio.
Another question that could be asked is "Do we even have more than 5 endgame CCers in the game?". Standing around at Kiga can often make it feel like we don't even have that many.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Failed as usual.
Monthly ratio changed, 15 fails and 3 wins. 83% fail vs 17% win ratio.
[zone] Stick to the wall do not go forward to make sure not to activate timer.
[zone] Do not tell 'Eidolon is up' to random people we are gathering at private channel for the most skilled players for doing Eidolon at now.
[zone] GROUP 1: Tank/Healers/Controller
[zone] GROUP 2: Crushing/Particle
[zone] GROUP 3: Slashing/Paranormal
[zone] GROUP 4,5,6 : Other
[zone] Please make sure to cut off your dino device.
[zone] Please do no use any lunge power toward green/yellow/red objects spawned.
[zone] No [ice grades] to green/yellow/red objects spawned.
[zone] At green crystal spawned, please move to each position do not stick to Eido unless you are tank or tunnel heal.
[zone] At greens summoned, group 2 = left, 3 = middle, 4 = right to move quick.
[zone] Please do not use wide AoE attacks BUT single target attack during several green/yellow/red objects spawned together so close.
[zone] Keep take care for your next move to zone chat.
[zone] Do not rush to reds wait for zone call for your next move.
[TheEndGame] [Cosmic HQ] Eidolon is up! Please bring your best DPS build.
But do not bring any hope for lucky success.
At first make sure your build is set as Endgame DPS and read the tips very well.
Failed at unlocking.
Slug [Confuse] made team wipe, Oub [Devour Essence] after root could be also a huge risk of fail at OMs.
Monthly ratio changed, 16 fails and 3 wins. 84% fail vs 16% win ratio.
Succeeded.
Monthly ratio changed, 16 fails and 4 wins. 80% fail vs 20% win ratio.
But 4 reds summoned at same time, or reds and greens summoned at nearly same time, 4 wipes, how did we do this?
And seems server now broken. It's not my fault. o3o
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Stick to the wall do not go forward to make sure not to activate timer.
Do not tell 'Eidolon is up' to random people we are gathering at private channel for the most skilled players for doing Eidolon at now.
GROUP 1: Tank/Healers/Controller
GROUP 2: Crushing/Particle
GROUP 3: Slashing/Paranormal
GROUP 4,5,6 : Other
Please make sure to cut off your dino device.
Please do no use any lunge power toward red/green/yellow objects spawned.
No [Ice Grades] to red objects. NO CC powers. Never.
At green crystal spawned, please move to each position do not stick to Eido unless you are tank or tunnel heal.
At greens summoned, group 2 = left, 3 = middle, 4 = right to move quick.
Please do not use wide AoE attacks BUT single target attack during several red objects spawned together so much close.
Keep take care for your next move to zone chat.
Do not rush to reds wait for zone call for your next move.
[TheEndGame] [Cosmic HQ] Eidolon is up! Please bring your best DPS build.
This gathering may not happen on week days. @3@
Yes, how dare you and your band of filthy hooligans keep proving me right. o3o
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
So wronnngg because we just avoided greens but kept hit Eidolon at the last moment before it explode in 10 seconds. Its so gamble.
Miracle happened but we got wiped after defeat and the server went down.
Its so much wronnngg. o3o
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Failed as usual.
Monthly ratio changed, 17 fails and 4 wins.
Is this accounting for Orb resistance? Cause that would put required DPS to be 4.3k, or 4 bursts of 10k per player in 10 seconds which is fairly easy to achieve, yet in practice runs with 20 people fail by a whole lot unless orbs are super good position
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
The 10k DPS estimate for Dino I calculated way back when was using live parser data from a Dino fight and calculating the average between damage done during a succesfull check and damage done during a failed check, meaning aura and damage resistance discrepancies were taken into account. Granted the data pool I used was small.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
I wanna try 50/50 for my DPS build next btw.
Someone make a soak AoRP/AoED Eidolon optimized healer build. For meh.
I did 50/50 in my Healer. Yay I made it finally!!!!!!
Took over a year for this. o3o
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
made with lots of memetic love
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
So doing Eidolon is now like...
+1 :3c
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Da best fix ever. o3o
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Oh wait. That doesn't differ substantially from the way it currently is...
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Sounds so awful... o3o