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Forums > Home› Champions Online Discussion

Why i think CO isn't worth 300$ LTS.

diggotdiggot Posts: 309 Arc User
in Champions Online Discussion

Disclaimer - This is in no way, shape or form, directed at Kaiserin or the devs.
This is directed at PWE and their appaling way of mishandling CO as a game, removing Devs FROM the game and reducing the already non-existant manpower to improve any aspects of the game.

1) CO opened up in 2009, and in 9 years we've gotten almost no new ACTUAL content, just re-used content with changed skin..

2) Whenever we want something fixed or added into the game - the devteam that has been slaughtered, doens't have manpower to get it done.

3) The only devs that knew the code, was removed from the game and pushed into NWO, leaving CO with no one that had any real knowledge of the code..

4) You are actually LYING to our faces when you try to implement changes into the game, and removing things that has been features since the start, and you're now trying to pass them off as bugs.

5) You (PWE) are running CO on a skeletoncrew of Devs, clearly understaffed and incapable of fixing obvious 4+ years old bugs.

6) You reduce the amount of service, and transfer more and more behind the paywall, yet you aren't increasing the staff that runs CO... so that tells me you're putting the money in your pocket - for every sucker that pays 300$.

7) You've transfered multiple free costumes to the Zen-store, several pieces that was a part of the Gold access pack.


I think you are mismanaging the game, stripping it down piece by piece.
You have the best hero-game on the market, and you're treating it like a child. THAT's why i don't think CO is worth 300$ LTS, because the money goes to a company that doens't deserve it. If this game would have an actual Dev-steam with knowledge about the engine & code, and be able to FIX things instead of excusing the "can't fix cuz spagetti code" , and actual content updates - the game would be worth LTS.

But not as it stands right now. Spend some money, hire more people for Kaiserin.. .and start fixing this game.

Comments

  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    I feel a few of these statements are bit overstretched but, my opinion on why I personally will never tell a friend to spend $300 on this game is because well..that's a lot of money on ONE product, and the last person I told about CO got bored/left before after the tutorial because she felt the combat/content was clunky/not engaging.
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • lezard21lezard21 Posts: 1,510 Arc User
    Well yeah, we live in an era where MMOs as a whole are going through an identity crisis, the few succesful new titles are the ones that have slowly started to phase into a more action combat oriented playstyle.

    Hell, new MMOs that announced themselves as action based and turned out to be a smartly disguised click and point (BnS, ESO, Bless) received great backlash from their communities. With the way console games have evolved, tab target gameplay is no longer as engaging as it used to be.​​
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited June 2018
    This content has been removed.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    MMO mechanics were originally designed around being playable at 500ms ping or so, usually by having a server tic rate of 1 or even 2 seconds. That pretty much requires mechanics where you select a target and the game aims for you, but it doesn't play very impressively when people have 50ms.
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  • vonqballvonqball Posts: 939 Arc User
    I can only agree $300 is a lot to ask for a game of this age.
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,544 Arc User
    That's why savvy customers wait for the sale. The $200 I spent on the game was well worth it for me.
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  • pwestolemynamepwestolemyname Posts: 978 Arc User
    How many times in the longest-running super-hero game's history have these exact same arguments been rehashed?

    That being said, it looks like the management agrees with you. That is why they are moving away from a subscription model.
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  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    pwestolemyname wrote: »
    How many times in the longest-running super-hero game's history have these exact same arguments been rehashed?
    I fail to see the relevancy in this part of your statement as it pertains to a reason to get a LTS. Also, they're keeping LTS as the only sub option if they do cycle out subs. Right now though, that seems a bit in the air what with the recent patch notes pretty much doing what was planned without removing subs
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • guyhumualguyhumual Posts: 2,397 Arc User
    Honestly when I got my LTS it was a great deal, I got years of entertainment out of it, but I don't think the LTS in it's current state is worth buying as I'm very uncertain as to how long this game is going to be around for.
  • stealthriderstealthrider Posts: 86 Arc User
    Cryptic has never understood the concept of sticker shock. It's why the game never took off post-F2P. They locked the core mechanic of the game behind either a sub commitment (which obviously didn't attract enough players pre-F2P in the first place) or two different massive costs. It's hard enough to get a player to spend $0.01 on a game, let alone $300. Getting a player to spend $1 300 times is considerably easier than getting one to pay $300 one time, though. Cryptic never understood that, probably never will.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    That's why savvy customers wait for the sale. The $200 I spent on the game was well worth it for me.

    100% agree.
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  • riveroceanriverocean Posts: 1,690 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    I honeslty don't believe they expect to sell very many new lifetime subs. That's an unrealistic expectation at this point in the games existence. I do think they plan to keep the game alive with lots of micro-transactions. Hence the slashing of prices. This is just my opinion, but I feel like the game is in chug along mode, and that's good enough to keep it around for a few more years. Especially for a game entering the 10-year old mark.
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  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    riverocean wrote: »
    I honeslty don't believe they expect to sell very many new lifetime subs. That's an unrealistic expectation at this point in the games existence. I do think they plan to keep the game alive with lots of micro-transactions. Hence the slashing of prices. This is just my opinion, but I feel like the game is in chug along mode, and that's good enough to keep it around for a few more years. Especially for a game entering the 10-year old mark.

    Yeah I suppose that'll do fine. I agree, LTS won't be selling as much as say the microtransactions in any respect. I bought my LTS due to not wanting to pay $15/mo. off and on, and instead just generally let it sit while I do other things/collect zen and make an occasional 40 off new slots.

    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User
    xcelsior41 wrote: »
    riverocean wrote: »
    I honeslty don't believe they expect to sell very many new lifetime subs. That's an unrealistic expectation at this point in the games existence. I do think they plan to keep the game alive with lots of micro-transactions. Hence the slashing of prices. This is just my opinion, but I feel like the game is in chug along mode, and that's good enough to keep it around for a few more years. Especially for a game entering the 10-year old mark.
    Yeah I suppose that'll do fine. I agree, LTS won't be selling as much as say the microtransactions in any respect. I bought my LTS due to not wanting to pay $15/mo. off and on, and instead just generally let it sit while I do other things/collect zen and make an occasional 40 off new slots.
    I was a silver player while I collected money to get LTS. Never did monthly sub, it just didn't seem worthwhile.
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  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,318 Arc User
    markhawkman wrote: »
    xcelsior41 wrote: »
    riverocean wrote: »
    I honeslty don't believe they expect to sell very many new lifetime subs. That's an unrealistic expectation at this point in the games existence. I do think they plan to keep the game alive with lots of micro-transactions. Hence the slashing of prices. This is just my opinion, but I feel like the game is in chug along mode, and that's good enough to keep it around for a few more years. Especially for a game entering the 10-year old mark.
    Yeah I suppose that'll do fine. I agree, LTS won't be selling as much as say the microtransactions in any respect. I bought my LTS due to not wanting to pay $15/mo. off and on, and instead just generally let it sit while I do other things/collect zen and make an occasional 40 off new slots.
    I was a silver player while I collected money to get LTS. Never did monthly sub, it just didn't seem worthwhile.
    I subbed for a while, off and on, then came to the same conclusion you did - if I'm going to be playing this game for the long term, as it appeared I would, LTS made a lot more sense. I'm well into the profit portion of my LTS now, he said smugly. :wink:
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  • fizzex#3004 fizzex
    fizzex#3004
         Posts: 59 Arc User
    Apparently, today is that day.

    Played last night just fine - today, my account is Silver, all characters in the Select are repositioned, I can only buy 1 new slot instead of 2, the Play "button" does not work and, if I try to make a new character, I have to buy almost all of the ATs I had last night.

    Cannot figure out how to access my account to check my billing status, the credit card did not expire, so it looks like they changed the subscription model after all and my 3 month sub expired.

    $300 for a game I only solo (no queues and only the Blood Moon event played), ignore most zones, and only have 9 characters . . .

    Going to Vegas next week - even if I win, I still need to think about it.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    fizzex#3004 wrote: »
    Cannot figure out how to access my account to check my billing status, the credit card did not expire, so it looks like they changed the subscription model after all and my 3 month sub expired.

    Having not heard a peep about this from anyone else
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  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    Huh...I think the forums ate my post :p. I had originally suggested filing a ticket and checking with support. Doesn't seem like they'd just up and do something like this w/o so much as a release notes or big announcement.
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • fizzex#3004 fizzex
    fizzex#3004
         Posts: 59 Arc User
    As I cannot edit (anymore), I might have included that Microsoft stopped supporting Edge on my computer back in March, so clicking an Edge link briefly opens a blank screen, then closes it without displaying anything. Will send an email later.
  • fizzex#3004 fizzex
    fizzex#3004
         Posts: 59 Arc User
    Am exchanging emails explaining my situation so, hopefully, I will receive an explaination soon. :)
  • diggotdiggot Posts: 309 Arc User

    PWE needs to start investing into CO, hire more co-workers for Kaiserin and also get some people back to CO that knows how the code works. That way we can start getting things fixed in a humane timelimit.

    We got content so broken that players has stopped doing it, and more content locked behind perks that belongs to said content.

    It's bad enough that we have to pay subscription to play CO (as intended), but paying 300$ for a game in this state is unacceptable.
  • stormstryke2stormstryke2 Posts: 27 Arc User
    And even the people who say adding a costume piece is content, the monthly item a LTS or sub gets for July is the one given out July 2017. So they are not even fulfilling that anymore. Even though most of the items given there were bad at best.
  • mithrosnomoremithrosnomore Posts: 521 Arc User
    stormstryke2 wrote: »
    And even the people who say adding a costume piece is content, the monthly item a LTS or sub gets for July is the one given out July 2017. So they are not even fulfilling that anymore. Even though most of the items given there were bad at best.

    They announced that they were ending this.
    It was at the time that they announced that they were ending subs, and while they have kept subs around (and for good reason), they never said that they would be bringing back the monthly sub reward items.
  • screwthisprocessscrewthisprocess Posts: 186 Arc User
    It depends

    It is not worth it now because the plethora of CoX successors. It is not worth it because $300 can nearly get you a decent rig to play other pc games on. It is not worth it because there are more lively mmo to spend money on.

    How long will CO last? Have we really gotten anything new other than costumes? If you feel $300 dollars for a costume is enough then by all means buy it. CO is probably the only mmo some play, it is worth it to them.

    I can see both sides of the argument.
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 5,544 Arc User
    Hope springs eternal, but I am not holding my breath. Been hearing that for years now.
    screwthisprocess wrote: »
    It depends

    It is not worth it now because the plethora of CoX successors.

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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    screwthisprocess wrote: »
    It is not worth it now because the plethora of CoX successors in development hell.

    fix'd o3o

    also I've never been too excited at the prospect of spiritual successors to an even older game with worse mechanics u3u
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  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,318 Arc User
    Checking back into the thread, and yeah, that's my question too - what "plethora of CoX successors"?

    I suppose they could be viewed as being much more efficient than CoX - it was actually published for years before dying, while SoH and CoT seem to have skipped directly from "concept art" to "deceased" without bothering with all that "playable game" stuff in the middle.
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  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    Checking back into the thread, and yeah, that's my question too - what "plethora of CoX successors"?

    I suppose they could be viewed as being much more efficient than CoX - it was actually published for years before dying, while SoH and CoT seem to have skipped directly from "concept art" to "deceased" without bothering with all that "playable game" stuff in the middle.

    I mean there IS a whole forum dedicated to this to prove you wrong that IS a simple click away buuut that's not what this thread is about.(Lastly I fail to see this helping sell LTS so).

    For a decent/direct comparison, we've got black ops 4. A few things changed ofc, like the fact that you don't need to buy CO to play it anymore, but still relatively the same. Now, mind you I'm not buying black ops, this is strictly for comparison

    Base game=CO gold
    Digital Deluxe Enhanced Edition=LTS price on sale.
    The deluxe enhanced edition will more than likely not sell to the casual gamer, same as a LTS on or off sale. Who it will sell to is those who've had prior experience with the franchise. In CO's case, that would probably be former PnP players and a few hardcore MMO players/superhero fans.
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    gigabear#4407 wrote: »
    diggot wrote: »

    4)when you try to implement changes into the game, and removing things that has been features since the start, and you're now trying to pass them off as bugs.

    Experimental Artificial Life Injector scaling of player costumes was a feature, not a bug. I doubt the suits at PWE even had any idea that decision had even been made. I don't believe PWE was the origin of the feature = bug pattern that is emerging, but either way, it needs to stop happening because it's disingenuous.
    diggot wrote: »

    2) Whenever we want something fixed or added into the game - the devteam that has been slaughtered, doens't have manpower to get it done.

    5) incapable of fixing obvious 4+ years old bugs.

    They do have the manpower to fix at least some though, but it's being squandered on non-issues like Draysha Gas and adding ever more convoluted code to Super Magnifier to prevent it from stacking, when honestly, IT SHOULD anyway. I can see there is some need to keep control of novelty and fun items, but messing so heavily with those when your ques are sticking daily as just a single example of far more serious issues plaguing the game, feels like a massive misappropriation of resources everyone can admit are very limited.

    Laying this all at the feet of the "evil" corporation is simply not fair, and it is not accurate. It does all of us a massive disservice to ignore the problems we CAN fix because they are unpleasant to talk about.

    I mean...hasn't this been beaten to death in the other thread about this issue?
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • kamokamikamokami Posts: 1,633 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    gigabear#4407 wrote: »
    It's killing my game experience. No, it is certainly not resolved any any stretch of the imagination. But everything I said here is very valid, and relevant to the topic. Resources were spent on a non-issue instead of on actual problems. This is NOT all on PWE. There are improvments we can make here to the process.
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    edited July 2018
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  • darqaura2darqaura2 Posts: 932 Arc User
    My opinion is the devs fixed a bug. If they choose to bring back an item to help with those who love the size gimmick all power to them. To me that has always been a gimmick. There are way more important things for them to worry about --- namely content.
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    gigabear#4407 wrote: »
    xcelsior41 wrote: »
    I mean...hasn't this been beaten to death in the other thread about this issue?

    It's killing my game experience. No, it is certainly not resolved any any stretch of the imagination. But everything I said here is very valid, and relevant to the topic. Resources were spent on a non-issue instead of on actual problems. This is NOT all on PWE. There are improvments we can make here to the process.

    But this thread is about why CO isn't worth $300. I mean, we're not going to go through this again, I'd take it to another thread, like suggestions or whatever
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    gigabear#4407 wrote: »
    kamokami wrote: »
    Go away
    I am not going to be bullied out of this community. It will not happen. I will not refrain from discussing something I care about because others cannot disagree in a civil manner. That is not a Gigabear issue.

    Everyone would be well served here to simply not comment on the issue if they do not care about it, and if they DO care, then to present their opinion respectfully. As I am doing.

    Not really. You're being annoying and commenting the same crap in multiple threads. I used to sympathize with your issue, now I just don't give a damn and really think if you keep this up you'll(or should be) end up being banned for awhile until you can understand not every thread needs this
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • xcelsior41xcelsior41 Posts: 1,056 Arc User
    Anyway, on the ACTUAL topic of the thread: LTS could be made more valuable with more new(not re-skin or remastered, though a little bit sprinkled in isn't bad here and there) content. The game needs more diverse content to get more hours of gameplay. I mean endgame, while it attempts to do so, ends up being a slog/tedious. Diversifying that area, as well as the leveling experience, will help immensely.
    Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.

    42 40s, LTSer.
  • mithrosnomoremithrosnomore Posts: 521 Arc User
    gigabear#4407 wrote: »

    Everyone would be well served here to simply not comment on the issue if they do not care about it, and if they DO care, then to present their opinion respectfully. As I am doing.

    How is it respectful to jam your "issue" into every thread on the board?

    I mean, what's the matter? Your thread die of disinterest so now you feel the need to try and take over another thread until it dies, too?
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    gigabear#4407 wrote: »
    Resources were spent on a non-issue instead of on actual problems.

    Correction. Resources were spent on the problem that you consider a non-issue, and at the same time on other problems, and improvements.
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  • lezard21lezard21 Posts: 1,510 Arc User
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  • nbkxsnbkxs Posts: 776 Arc User
    gigabear#4407 wrote: »
    kamokami wrote: »
    Go away
    I am not going to be bullied out of this community. It will not happen. I will not refrain from discussing something I care about because others cannot disagree in a civil manner. That is not a Gigabear issue.

    Everyone would be well served here to simply not comment on the issue if they do not care about it, and if they DO care, then to present their opinion respectfully. As I am doing.

    Go away

    [NbK]XStorm
This discussion has been closed.