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Kiga Dogs with Gravity debuff

qawsadaqawsada Posts: 750 Arc User
in Suggestions Box
A simple little suggestion. Give Kiga Dogs a Gravity debuff. People fly, out aggro, and the dog chase them in the sky and the aggro get all screwy.
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Comments

  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,467 Arc User
    I support.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User
    better idea: give the Gravity debuff TO the dogs so they are stuck to the ground and can't fly. :p
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,467 Arc User
    And then we just bombard them from the air as they helplessly watch :P
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  • omnilord#8416 omnilord
    omnilord#8416
         Posts: 348 Arc User
    how about no?

    The dogs are screwy enough.
  • itsbrou#5396 itsbrou
    itsbrou#5396
         Posts: 1,779 Arc User
    1.5 second cooldown beast lunge in their AI.
    Make it their first line in logic when an enemy is over 20 ft away.
    Do it. :3:3:3
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    Or you could just give NTTG to their lunge... (the fact that their lunge doesn't cause them to move, probably because lunges and flight have historically bugged together, is a separate issue).
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  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,785 Arc User
    Give the NttG advantage to their howl and cone attacks.
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  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 1,163 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    They can already lunge without moving and do 1 or 2 other attacks from >200' away. Enough content takes away your travel power, so .. No.​​
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    And then we just bombard them from the air as they helplessly watch :P
    Step 2 is to throw them into Andrithal :p
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,467 Arc User
    warcanch wrote: »
    They can already lunge without moving and do 1 or 2 other attacks from >200' away. Enough content takes away your travel power, so .. No.​​

    Well that's why OP suggested gravity, since that will only effect flight users who shouldn't be flying during dogs.
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Well that's why OP suggested gravity, since that will only effect flight users who shouldn't be flying during dogs.
    Eh, nothing wrong with equal-opportunity hosing. Having lunges apply NTTG is kind of standard (it used to be every lunge in the game, even from minions, would do that, which was super-annoying, but legendary super-dogs applying nttg doesn't bother me...).
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  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,785 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    warcanch wrote: »
    They can already lunge without moving and do 1 or 2 other attacks from >200' away. Enough content takes away your travel power, so .. No.​​

    Well that's why OP suggested gravity, since that will only effect flight users who shouldn't be flying during dogs.

    Gravity does lots of other weird things, though, like the occasional deadly fall from 5' up.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User
    gravity also makes teleport slower than walking...
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    Yes, gravity is pretty thoroughly broken. In its current state it shouldn't be used for anything at all.
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  • rtmartma Posts: 1,193 Arc User
    I'm not sure what is the process but the Dogs do disable your TP one point or another, I've had it happen to me, they slow you down and Pain happens, Sniper Bites. \o/
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,467 Arc User
    markhawkman wrote: »
    gravity also makes teleport slower than walking...

    You're thinking of the area effect, not the attack.

    roughbearmattach wrote: »
    Gravity does lots of other weird things, though, like the occasional deadly fall from 5' up.

    Then don't be 5' up ;)
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    You're thinking of the area effect, not the attack.
    The attack probably does too, but I've never been hit with it while teleporting so...
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,467 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    pantagruel01 wrote: »
    spinnytop wrote: »
    You're thinking of the area effect, not the attack.
    The attack probably does too, but I've never been hit with it while teleporting so...

    fairly irrelevant since you'd be dead near instantly and wouldn't have any time to appreciate your movement speed.
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    fairly irrelevant since you'd be dead near instantly and wouldn't have any time to appreciate your movement speed.
    Nah, you can routinely get hit by Gravity attacks and not killed, most level 40+ MVs can use it. The only ones with the ability to hit you with it while teleporting are Perfections of Body in TA, though.
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,467 Arc User
    pantagruel01 wrote: »
    Nah, you can routinely get hit by Gravity attacks and not killed, most level 40+ MVs can use it. The only ones with the ability to hit you with it while teleporting are Perfections of Body in TA, though.

    If you're getting hit by gravity it means you have dog aggro, hence dead. At least with Gravity it means your mistake won't inconvenience others.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User
    I tested the effect gravity has on TP by visiting Eido's coffin.
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,467 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    markhawkman wrote: »
    I tested the effect gravity has on TP by visiting Eido's coffin.

    That's great! But not particularly relevant to this suggestion. OP is not suggesting that the area effect of gravity, as it is at Eido, be implemented at Kiga. They are suggesting that the dogs get the gravity attack that certain mobs in TA and QWZ have. So long as you don't get dog aggro, or aren't flying, then it won't really be an issue.
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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    If you're getting hit by gravity it means you have dog aggro, hence dead.
    The problem being solved is flying people who get dog aggro and fail to immediately die. If they die, gravity won't matter (it won't get dogs to ground level any faster).
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  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,785 Arc User
    By the way, would this be so that a failed run resets a bit faster? I didn't think flying dogs were such an issue.
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  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 1,163 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    warcanch wrote: »
    They can already lunge without moving and do 1 or 2 other attacks from >200' away. Enough content takes away your travel power, so .. No.

    Well that's why OP suggested gravity, since that will only effect flight users who shouldn't be flying during dogs.

    I still disagree with this. They already can do a NttG, no need to make it worse.

    Flying during Kiga fight is bad because of the frozen tombs in mid air and only 1 or 2 players seeing it and only ranged being able to hit it.

    The part I find the most annoying is having my ground-based travel power ON and I'm "following" something, yet moving at slow-motion speed. It's not too much of a factor at most other fights, but the dog fight is different in that they are super jittery and move very fast. If I'm trying to maintain aggro or interrupt the howl, as the tank, this is the bigger problem.​​
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,467 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    pantagruel01 wrote: »
    The problem being solved is flying people who get dog aggro and fail to immediately die. If they die, gravity won't matter (it won't get dogs to ground level any faster).

    Slamming these people into the ground will make them die faster.

    warcanch wrote: »
    The part I find the most annoying is having my ground-based travel power ON and I'm "following" something, yet moving at slow-motion speed. It's not too much of a factor at most other fights, but the dog fight is different in that they are super jittery and move very fast. If I'm trying to maintain aggro or interrupt the howl, as the tank, this is the bigger problem.​​

    How is this relevant to the Gravity attack? Which ground-based power is made to move at slow motion speed by it?
    roughbearmattach wrote: »
    By the way, would this be so that a failed run resets a bit faster? I didn't think flying dogs were such an issue.

    They are for melee without flight - which happens to include many tanks. Nothing more annoying than trying to pick up a dog while it's flying around above your head far out of your reach. It makes you wish those flying people would, I dunno, get slammed into the ground and die.
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  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 1,163 Arc User
    So we see that all you really want is to not be inconvenienced. Got it. You're unique. tiger-48.gif


    My comment about chasing them with my ground TP on was to illustrate a simple function, already available, to try and maintain melee distance, but is borked in such a way to make it difficult. If I'm tanking the dog, then I can lose aggro or don't get the interrupt. Therefore, it either wakes the other dogs or goes off chasing after someone else. Simple tank mechanics here. Control the fight. Gravity gimmick not needed.

    I didn't say Gravity affected ground-based travel power. I didn't need to. Fix the "follow while my ground-based travel power is ON" speed and all is fine. Don't introduce another borked gimmick into the mix.​​
    .

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  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,785 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »

    They are for melee without flight - which happens to include many tanks. Nothing more annoying than trying to pick up a dog while it's flying around above your head far out of your reach. It makes you wish those flying people would, I dunno, get slammed into the ground and die.

    When does this happen?

    Also, toons get two travel powers, and can use devices. It's pretty easy to get flight. A tank can also have a ranged attack to grab threat for just this sort of thing.

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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    How is this relevant to the Gravity attack? Which ground-based power is made to move at slow motion speed by it?
    The problem isn't with ground-based movement powers. The problem is that Gravity means flight movement powers move at the same speed as no travel power, even if you're on the ground. This isn't crippling, you can always take a ground-based movement power, but "use a ground movement power or GTFO" is no better than "use an aerial movement power or GTFO".
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Posts: 4,916 Arc User
    roughbearmattach wrote: »
    spinnytop wrote: »
    They are for melee without flight - which happens to include many tanks. Nothing more annoying than trying to pick up a dog while it's flying around above your head far out of your reach. It makes you wish those flying people would, I dunno, get slammed into the ground and die.
    When does this happen?

    Also, toons get two travel powers, and can use devices. It's pretty easy to get flight. A tank can also have a ranged attack to grab threat for just this sort of thing.
    Yeah, i don't think this is a common problem.
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,467 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    warcanch wrote: »
    So we see that all you really want is to not be inconvenienced. Got it. You're unique. ​​

    No I want to see people flying at Kiga who get aggro from dogs get slammed into the ground and die. I thought I was very clear about that o3o
    markhawkman wrote: »
    Yeah, i don't think this is a common problem.

    It's not, hence why the OP's suggestion wouldn't be a big deal to implement - one moment people in this thread are acting like this would be the worst thing in the world, and then you point out that this wouldn't even effect people most of the time. Thanks for that ;). However, a problem doesn't need to occur a lot for it to be really annoying when it does, and when it does I'd rather those fliers just get slammed into the ground rather than people having to repeatedly type for them to stop flying which generally has no effect since they're likely not looking at chat and instead are panic flying even higher.
    roughbearmattach wrote: »
    When does this happen?

    At Kiga, during phase 1.
    roughbearmattach wrote: »
    Also, toons get two travel powers, and can use devices. It's pretty easy to get flight. A tank can also have a ranged attack to grab threat for just this sort of thing.

    Well now you're asking people to solve the problem by changing their builds. Flight doesn't fit everyone's theme, and not every melee tank wants to grab a ranged attack for this specific issue ( in fact I would venture to guess that the majority don't want to do that ).

    I mean, if there was an annoying issue that crops up now and then that was solved by having Teleport and Sorcery Sigils, would you happily retcon all of your toons to have those two things?
    pantagruel01 wrote: »
    The problem isn't with ground-based movement powers.

    Yes, and Warchan was referencing ground-based movement powers being slowed, hence why I asked how that was relevant. You haven't answered that.

    warcanch wrote: »
    I didn't say Gravity affected ground-based travel power. I didn't need to. Fix the "follow while my ground-based travel power is ON" speed and all is fine. Don't introduce another borked gimmick into the mix.​​

    I'll fix this issue for you right now: Use your movement keys, not the follow function. You're welcome.

    Follow functions in that manner in order to keep you from over-shooting your target and yo-yoing back and forth, which is what would happen if you were moving at full speed. You are effectively asking for them to break the function for its general use on the off chance that it might perform better in this one instance.
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  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 1,163 Arc User
    This is why you lose any credibility. Anything you can't adjust to must be destroyed. Anything someone else can't/won't/shouldn't have to adjust to is "their problem, not mine".​​
    .

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  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Well now you're asking people to solve the problem by changing their builds. Flight doesn't fit everyone's theme
    Superspeed also doesn't fit everyone's theme. By far the fairest options are 'everyone can use travel powers' and 'no-one can use travel powers'.
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,467 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    warcanch wrote: »
    This is why you lose any credibility. Anything you can't adjust to must be destroyed. Anything someone else can't/won't/shouldn't have to adjust to is "their problem, not mine".​​

    Except I have a ranged tank o3o good try tho

    Also you don't see me advocating people changing their build in ways that don't adhere to their theme. Again, good try.

    And thirdly, what am I advocating the destruction of? Flight? Ya blew it.
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  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 1,163 Arc User
    Read your own posts. Otherwise, done responding to you constantly trolling in yours.​​
    .

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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,467 Arc User
    "Anyone who disagrees with me is a troll."

    Okay then o3o
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  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,785 Arc User
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Okay then o3o

    You yourself make similar suggestions [about changing or adding to builds] in other threads, and have for a long time.

    Also, both flight and ranged attacks exist as devices, too.

    I'm not sure what you're advocating anymore.
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  • ph0toncann0nph0toncann0n Posts: 117 Community Moderator
    edited May 2018
    I'm not sure why the thread just got off-topic for some sort of bickering I'm not going to read all the posts of.

    Yeah, so, let's say a tank using flight pulls a dog's aggro from my tank, and soon this doggo is like twenty feet in the air. Ranged DPS don't care, maybe even a melee with flight doesn't care, but aaaaall these other melee DPS are left on the ground twiddling their thumbs.

    We could either just add the 'Get Down!' debuff to the Frost Hounds, which would allow them to put a flying target on the floor, or, we could add in a thematic "no-fly" zone a certain height above the players, where the storm catches you and drops you back down to the "safer" zone.

    And lastly, even if no change comes around, it can become a norm to "not fly Kiga dogs away." It might take a bit, and some stubborn people may not want to budge that way at first, but it's true that this playerbase can learn to adapt to some things.

    I rarely see Kiga dogs get flown away, but I do see it happen sometimes. I usually don't worry about it 'til it happens.
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  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 1,163 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    If I have a ranged dps or a healer, I much prefer to fly during phase 1. Irregularities in the terrain or the banners that momentarily block line of sight, and just staying out of that forward cone they occasionally project, are my reasons for being up there.

    A couple of relevant threads I started so as to try not to sidetrack the OP.
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline#/discussion/1211182/gravity-make-it-fair
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline#/discussion/1211183/follow-why-am-i-going-so-slow​​
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,467 Arc User
    roughbearmattach wrote: »
    I'm not sure what you're advocating anymore.

    Can't blame you, you've never asked, you're one of those people that only seems to try to figure certain people out in the middle of forum arguments. That's guaranteed to lead to confusion ;)
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