How strong and reliable is "Mind Lock" &/or "Mind Control"

circleofpsi

So, as the title says

Has anyone really invited in Mind Lock and seen if its any good?, the power almost reminds me of "Panic" in XCOM where you'll cause that side to freak out and shoot their teammates, but in terms of CO wise, with them turning to fight their own.

Cuz it's not like mind control where, the other mobs infact do attack that target, and it deals a ton of damage once it ends, alot of people don't seem to enjoy it, but let me know what you think.


Edit: Also, how whuold you feel if "Mind Control" became more like "Domination" so rather you control them for a short time, you have them under your control until yourself or the controlled NPC dies. (Note: Can only have 1 controlled at any given time, or 2 if you pick the Adv)

Ideas?

theravenforce

Mind Lock - the actual power is just a basic confuse. So more often than not, the target is supposed to go off and attack their team mates. Somehow their team mates cotton on to this effect instantly and start fighting them as well.

It's more novel than actually useful. If you were in serious danger of dying, it'd be easier to spend energy healing and blocking than casting a confuse into the fight which may or may not work.

As far as I am concerned, it's great if you want to mess around with trash enemies ("Anything" below Master Villain) but in more serious settings, it follows a standard theme in that it's quite useless (aside from the debuff).

Mind Control - the actual power becoming like a "turn into permanent pet" power, would be interesting, but I reckon that it would be limited by:

- Time
- No Villain Rank Status pets
- Massive Cool down

In other words, make the power more undesirable.

But, there's always hope lol. I mean, TK managed to get reviewed by the current Dev Team and didn't get decimated and came out looking pretty good, so there's some hope for Telepathy I guess.

circleofpsi

Thanks Raven, as I am a huge fan of both powers, they just feel so "Psionically" that should be better and improved on, I mean I am obsessed with Psionics, and I whuold kill to have the PSI-Ops powers from XCOM 2 in-game.

"Holy water", boost your allies skills, while linked

"Domination" permanently turn a foe into a pet

"Insanity" can cause fear/panic/ or even a chance of mind control (short time tho)



etc.

deadman20

My recent foray into a Mind Lock/Mind Control character was an interesting one. Using them on their own won't let you make progress since Confused mobs that fight one another break their own confusion and Corrupted mobs don't last long on their own. Corrupt/Mind Controlled mobs are neat, as they can be your initiation tool when a tank isn't available. I find that Corruption and Confusion are best used together as an initiating distraction while the Hero or their team follows up. Oh, and Manipulator works with Confusion, so you might want that if you plan on working with such a build. Doesn't affect Corruption though, and believe me, that's actually a GOOD thing.

Confusion and Corruption go really well together. If you've seen my character, Xander, he's the one that I've been going around and doing that with. His follow up is the assassination of larger targets. With the biggest enemy out of the way, I have a much easier time dealing with the stragglers who are already weakened since they were busy fighting one another. Honestly, that's the best use I've found out of Mind Control and Confusion. Oh, I also carry a quick stun power like Swift Strike to refresh Manipulator. The amount of CC Magnitude from Manipulator also makes it a decently long stun.

All in all, Confuse/Corrupt serve as distractions rather than end-all methods of clearing mobs. You want to use Corrupt to get an enemy to draw attention for you, and Confuse to ease up some pressure on your converted mob so they don't die before you move in for the follow up. And if you're using Mind Control, be prepared for all Robots, Vampires, and Pets to flat out ignore it. I'm not sure why that hard-counter was introduced since the rest of the game isn't into hard-counters.​​

pantagruel01

I'd probably use Corrupt to snipe sorcerers in warzone missions.

circleofpsi

deadman20 said:

My recent foray into a Mind Lock/Mind Control character was an interesting one. Using them on their own won't let you make progress since Confused mobs that fight one another break their own confusion and Corrupted mobs don't last long on their own. Corrupt/Mind Controlled mobs are neat, as they can be your initiation tool when a tank isn't available. I find that Corruption and Confusion are best used together as an initiating distraction while the Hero or their team follows up. Oh, and Manipulator works with Confusion, so you might want that if you plan on working with such a build. Doesn't affect Corruption though, and believe me, that's actually a GOOD thing.



Confusion and Corruption go really well together. If you've seen my character, Xander, he's the one that I've been going around and doing that with. His follow up is the assassination of larger targets. With the biggest enemy out of the way, I have a much easier time dealing with the stragglers who are already weakened since they were busy fighting one another. Honestly, that's the best use I've found out of Mind Control and Confusion. Oh, I also carry a quick stun power like Swift Strike to refresh Manipulator. The amount of CC Magnitude from Manipulator also makes it a decently long stun.



All in all, Confuse/Corrupt serve as distractions rather than end-all methods of clearing mobs. You want to use Corrupt to get an enemy to draw attention for you, and Confuse to ease up some pressure on your converted mob so they don't die before you move in for the follow up. And if you're using Mind Control, be prepared for all Robots, Vampires, and Pets to flat out ignore it. I'm not sure why that hard-counter was introduced since the rest of the game isn't into hard-counters.​​

Big help!


Thanks!

circleofpsi

Ok, so any more information Deadman?, cuz I've been getting the impression by alot of people that Confuses/Corrupts are pretty much wasteful on a build

circleofpsi

Or anyone else in that matter?

hasukurobi

TBVH only holds and stuns are useful CC's and even those are only useful against very specific enemies in very specific missions. 99% of the game makes CC's absolutely worthless because you would be better off just killing whatever trash mob actually succumbs to them.

pr0fp0tts

I've been loving Mind Control. As deadman20 says, it's a great opener, especially if you get PUGed without a Tank. It's also great at saving your hide if you pull aggro and are getting pounded on. I love using it on those enemies which are a pain-in-the-bottom for you the rest of the time - like Viper Brickbusters.

The big downside is that it doesn't work on three-bar enemies or above, and doesn't work at all on some enemy types (like robots) - but you figure out what you can and can't use it on pretty fast. Having a confuse power as an alternate is handy, as this (potentially) works on everything bar the actual supervillains.

Mind Control is great as an alternative to a hold type power too, as it prevents your teammates targeting the victim (so they can't disrupt the effect as soon as you place it), gets the victim to attack the other bad guys, and deals hefty damage when it runs out: it's win-win-win in that respect. The limitations on the power mean you can't really build an entire character around just Mind Control, but it's great fun and handy to have in the ol' tool kit.

Oh, and you don't seem to get any XP for enemies your Mind Controlled puppet kills either - so if it's your core tactic you may find yourself leveling very slowly...

spinnytop

hasukurobi wrote: »

TBVH only holds and stuns are useful CC's

I just wanted to point out that stuns are holds. Maybe you meant paralyzes?

hasukurobi

spinnytop wrote: »

hasukurobi wrote: »

TBVH only holds and stuns are useful CC's

I just wanted to point out that stuns are holds. Maybe you meant paralyzes?

Stuns, Paralyzes, Sleep, Incapacitation, to some extent Snare and other strong movement debuffs. The mind control and confusion CC is worthless.

pwestolemyname

The main problem with these powers is that they are only effective on trash level enemies and have zero effect on real threats. The enemies that they work on are hardly worth worrying about, and the enemies you actually do need to worry about are immune.

A nice fix for this would be to put a debuff in for more powerful enemies. Maybe just a slow-type effect as they struggle to resist the confuse or something. Another nice fix would be if CC powers actually stacked like they should, rather than fighting each other as they are applied. As it stands now, it is better to take almost any other power than confuse/corrupt.

hasukurobi

pwestolemyname wrote: »

The main problem with these powers is that they are only effective on trash level enemies and have zero effect on real threats. The enemies that they work on are hardly worth worrying about, and the enemies you actually do need to worry about are immune.

A nice fix for this would be to put a debuff in for more powerful enemies. Maybe just a slow-type effect as they struggle to resist the confuse or something. Another nice fix would be if CC powers actually stacked like they should, rather than fighting each other as they are applied. As it stands now, it is better to take almost any other power than confuse/corrupt.

Aye... It would be neat if CC's on immune target had some other affect. Maybe a damage reduction like Fear or an increase in damage Taken.

spinnytop

Giving Mind Lock and Mind Control the ability to apply Stress and/or Disoriented on targets might make them a bit more useful.

In the case of Mind Control I would also have it apply a decent aoe dot on the controlled target to ensure that the controlled NPC is always useful in some fashion and make that dot detonate and do a burst of damage if the NPC ever falls below a certain hit percentage. Then I would make the dot deal increased damage if Mind Control is cast on something that is immune to the control effect so that it has some more broad usefulness.

theravenforce

spinnytop wrote: »

Giving Mind Lock and Mind Control the ability to apply Stress and/or Disoriented on targets might make them a bit more useful.

In the case of Mind Control I would also have it apply a decent aoe dot on the controlled target to ensure that the controlled NPC is always useful in some fashion and make that dot detonate and do a burst of damage if the NPC ever falls below a certain hit percentage. Then I would make the dot deal increased damage if Mind Control is cast on something that is immune to the control effect so that it has some more broad usefulness.

Something like this was suggested when Mind Control was in testing, however it was ignored. Since it literally does nothing but fire colour at an enemy which is above Villain rank.

It's laughable as a purchasable power (so obviously it had to be a Telepathy power ).

spinnytop

theravenforce wrote: »

(so obviously it had to be a Telepathy power ).

*prepares video showing how powerful Telepathy is*

theravenforce

spinnytop wrote: »

theravenforce wrote: »

(so obviously it had to be a Telepathy power ).

*prepares video showing how powerful Telepathy is*

That's an odd response

Anyway, I've already got an example, linked in my sig

riverocean

In general I don't like how confuse type powers work in CO. But it would be nice if Mind Control had a secondary effect that kicked in on higher level mobs. I like the idea of it applying a Mental State (Dependency, Stress, Fear, etc..) on higher level threats it can't control.