Tanks and healers are useless in grab alerts... so pull everything!

spinnytop

So when you join a grab alert as a healer there is the potential to be extremely bored. You could keep everyone alive by just being there if you have a healer aura. So naturally the solution there is if nobody else is pulling everything in sight, then you do it! This is the true secrety secret to make Grab alerts more exciting as a healer - pretend you're a tank and pull the whole room! The party might go a little butt nuts at first and be all like "WTF ARE YOU DOING STOP STOP STOOOOOOP STOOOOOOOOOOP OMFG NOOB &Y$#%)^)*^%)#$@%". But then when nobody dies they feel silly and they just go along with it and it's all fine! \o/

Same with tanks kind of. If you just go one group at a time you're gonna have a bad time. Well, for some it is a "relaxing time" but for others its boredom central. So tanks do the same thing.. pull the room! Go all bing bang zigga zigga zong on those fumbly bumbly bad guys!

So if you have ever felt bad because "tanks and healers aren't needed/useful in grab alerts" just follow my patented 74 step plan to do the thing!

PS - The first 73 steps are "pull everything in sight". Step 74 is "laugh at anyone who freaks out about it". Step 75 is "if you die and get everyone killed, learn from your mistakes and do it better next time".

magpieuk2014

A giant Foxbat comedy weight should land on anyone who does this. Particularly anyone who pulls the whole front of the Museum map and then disappears inside.

spinnytop

magpieuk2014 said:

and then disappears inside.

I did not advocate this sort of nonsense u3u

cptmassive1

Normally I don't disagree with you much but this is self-destructive. Laugh @ teh noobs? Losing even a few players isn't a bright idea with a low-population 10 year-old game.

I'll opt for perhaps not alienating some of the players on the chance the life of CO benefits from it.

pantagruel01

Being disruptive != being useful.

markhawkman

pantagruel01 said:

Being disruptive != being useful.

I've seen Spinny do this. It's not disruptive, but it's REALLY weird. It's AoE DPS based, and requires ridiculous amounts of shooting everything in range all at once.

chuckwolf

I actually tend to do this sort of ... My main is an AoE hybrid That uses Gravitic Ripple to literally pull a group of mobs together where I can that hit any survivors with a Gravity Driver. Nothing short of the main boss survives.

hasukurobi

magpieuk2014 said:

A giant Foxbat comedy weight should land on anyone who does this. Particularly anyone who pulls the whole front of the Museum map and then disappears inside.

Honestly I could do what they suggest and no one would even come close to dying with my main healer. My Tank might let a few through depending on what the other folks did.

spinnytop

cptmassive1 said:

Laugh @ teh noobs?

I never said to do that.

markhawkman said:

I've seen Spinny do this. It's not disruptive, but it's REALLY weird. It's AoE DPS based, and requires ridiculous amounts of shooting everything in range all at once.

nextnametaken

Old news, been doing this for years. Pulling aggro and coming within in hair of death is a lot of fun.

pwestolemyname

I do this ALL the time. Also do it on my CC.

Actually, it's not usually even necessary. Generally in Grabs, there are enough inexperienced players that pulling the room just happens.

deadman20

There are times when some alert groups need confidence, not power. While I don't condone grabbing every single mob all at once as a healer, it can be inspiring for some to know that there's someone capable of withstanding attacks and keeping everyone else alive and free to attack. Also, keep momentum and attack group after group with no delays between, resting ONLY if necessary to recover health. You have to keep those forms stacked if you want each engagement to go by quickly.​​

patternwalker

I recently was on a Grab where a healer shielded everyone then herded what seemed like every mob in front of City Hall into one location and started to use their AoEs to attack. The rest of us were kind of stunned at first, but then ran in to fight. It was honestly the easiest Grab I'd ever been on. Everything just melted.

I was in awe of that healer. I was too dumbstruck to think to ask them about their build and how they did that before it was all over. I have no idea who the player was.

If anyone can provide some guidelines about how to be that kind of badass healer/support player, I'd love to learn.

(One of the bad things about alerts is that there's usually no time to strategize or learn from other players. I know that the speed of alerts is appealing, though.)

catstarsto

"Tank my healer, please!"

cptmassive1

No guarantees on whether or not I get this quoting stuff correct.

spinnytop said:

I never said to do that.

spinnytop said:

Step 74 is "laugh at anyone who freaks out about it". Step 75 is "if you die and get everyone killed, learn from your mistakes and do it better next time".

Now you have me confused. Granted, I included the word "noobs" but really in order to be flustered by anything that can happen in a grab alert there's only a couple possibilities and that is not a real leap.

You also included that it is possible to get everyone killed.

So again, confused.

With all due respect to all you have done for this game and community, I live with a person who started CO and left a couple hours later because of exactly and specifically this type of repeated behavior. She didn't complain so much as to say, "well THAT was fun. I guess I'll go back to friendlier games."

That is all it took - she has thousands of games to choose from.

It cost PWE/Cryptic/whoever a LTS that I would have gladly purchased if she had stayed for any length of time.

Believe me or not -- don't care. Just saying what happened and its result.

spinnytop

cptmassive1 said:

Now you have me confused. Granted, I included the word "noobs" but really in order to be flustered by anything that can happen in a grab alert there's only a couple possibilities and that is not a real leap.

You'll have to clarify what you meant by "noobs" since people often use that when they mean "newbs".

If you're using it to imply new players ( "newb" ), then the reason you would be confused is because you would be assuming that only new players would freak out about this. It is definitely not. In fact the people I see complain about it the most are players who are definitely not new.

If you're using it to imply a long time player who just cannot learn and continues making the same mistakes over and over despite repeated opportunities to learn ( "noob" ) then it makes less sense why you would be confused, but you would still be off the mark. Again, those are not the only ones who freak out about this, and not all players who fall under that category freak out about it.

When I say make fun of people who freak out about it, that is exactly who I mean. We're clearing the alert nice and fast, and someone is having an angry lecture session in chat. So I tease them, until the devs enable some functionality where I can transmit this image to their screen:


v( u3u )v

cptmassive1 said:

You also included that it is possible to get everyone killed.

So again, confused.

What is there to be confused about. Sometimes I goof up and the horde tramples over the party. If it was common then I wouldn't do this, but it's not so I do.

cptmassive1 said:

With all due respect to all you have done for this game and community, I live with a person who started CO and left a couple hours later because of exactly and specifically this type of repeated behavior. She didn't complain so much as to say, "well THAT was fun. I guess I'll go back to friendlier games."

That is all it took - she has thousands of games to choose from.

It cost PWE/Cryptic/whoever a LTS that I would have gladly purchased if she had stayed for any length of time.

Believe me or not -- don't care. Just saying what happened and its result.

I believe you, but I also don't take responsibility for what your friend decided to do. I get a lot of tells from people saying how awesome it was and wanting to learn how they can be all strong n stuff too, so I guess different people just react differently to things ey?

magpieuk2014

I get a lot of tells from people saying how awesome it was

Is that the "Imaginary Friends" SG spinny? (again).....

I do understand what cptmassive1 is saying, here. It's nice to be the dominant player in the Alert but not everyone wants that, or understands what's going on, or what they need to do, and it can put people right off the game (which is not a good thing).

Personally I find uber-40s in Alerts a bit dull - I want to play the game, not follow in someone's wake - and I tend to sabotage their demonstrations of might by starting bits of the fight in the wrong order (being careful not to inconvience anyone else, of course). Ego, it seems, is a strong motivator for some of these players.

PS. What does "v( u3u )v" mean? Why am I having to decipher ASCII emojis in 2018?

beezeeze

When someone can pull this off it is fantastic and if they can't they'll end up biting it and get everyone killed really quick, which isn't so bad as dying in an alert barely costs you anything however repeatedly attempting this tactic and failing is very annoying... but as long as things go smoothly I don't see an issue and the only people who I've ever seen complain about it are the ones that get salty over being left so far in the dust.

blazer2001

Personally, when I see such intents on "mega uber builds" I try to avoid helping them, I certainly dislike such attitudes in the game myself.

pantagruel01

Hm. On reflection, just pulling a single room isn't really that big a deal, I was taking it as 'pull everything'. I've run into people who would go running off to room 2 in a museum and pull all the mobs in that room into room 1, and that's just being pointlessly malicious.

As far as being actually useful, max speed for clearing an alert depends on people's AoEs continually hitting 5 targets. Doing this usually means you want to aggro 2-3 groups at once. Hitting more groups than that is going to get your teammates killed because you also target cap your threat generation.

spinnytop

magpieuk2014 said:

Is that the "Imaginary Friends" SG spinny? (again).....

My SG is called "Elitist Monster".

magpieuk2014 said:

PS. What does "v( u3u )v" mean? Why am I having to decipher ASCII emojis in 2018?

There was a picture right before it that is what it means. The cute girl. Look at her.

blazer2001 said:

Personally, when I see such intents on "mega uber builds" I try to avoid helping them, I certainly dislike such attitudes in the game myself.

Tanks and healers are "mega uber builds" now? I'm fine with that ^_^ make sure to compliment your tanks and healers!

pantagruel01 said:

Hm. On reflection, just pulling a single room isn't really that big a deal, I was taking it as 'pull everything'. I've run into people who would go running off to room 2 in a museum and pull all the mobs in that room into room 1, and that's just being pointlessly malicious.

Well, inside museum is iffy because of line of sight. You pull the first room and go for the second, and the entire first room de-aggros. That kind of misses the point. Same with the time machine one, too many line of sight issues outside and inside.
However outside museum I'll happily pull everything available!

pantagruel01 said:

As far as being actually useful, max speed for clearing an alert depends on people's AoEs continually hitting 5 targets. Doing this usually means you want to aggro 2-3 groups at once.

A benefit of the "pull it all" method is that it allows all powers to be useful. The less you pull, the fewer powers that are useful. The everything method means players aren't racing to try to get charges off, and long-term effects like dots and such will actually have time to run their full duration.

Also, min-maxing/trying to care about "optimal"/max speed is kind of pointless for grabs since you have no control over who you'll enter the queue with. It makes more sense to just try to make it as much fun as you can for whatever the duration will be.

scildtruma

I do this by accident on my tank often enough. Knock or miscalculation. It can be fun with the right group or a complete cluster. My DPS hate this.

warcanch

What's a "Grab"? j(@_@)j​​

spinnytop

warcanch said:

What's a "Grab"? j(@_@)j​​

You would know if you had a sweetie ;p

vonqball

If your healer can keep all the hearts beating, then I say "do it up!" My frand's lvl 40 heal-beast runs our lowbies through alerts like this, and its a nice change of pace. Speed-walking that line between chaos and control keeps thing spicy!

catstarsto

magpieuk2014 said:

Why am I having to decipher ASCII emojis in 2018?

u.u'/' u.u,\,



The internet belongs to cats, dont question your masters! :P

capspectacular

I don't have a problem with a player pulling all of the agro when he has successfully determined that all of the characters are lvl 30+. I even find it kind of fun, but when every player is lvl 10 thru 20 it is just butchery, and I have been known to withdraw from parties with a lot of that in it. I bit off topic is something I have noticed when doing groups. Everyone but me pulls every baddy on the screen accept me and then high tails it back to another point and leave me holding a line that doesn't even exist.

pwestolemyname

blazer2001 said:

Personally, when I see such intents on "mega uber builds" I try to avoid helping them, I certainly dislike such attitudes in the game myself.

Thank you! Staying out of the way is often the best course of action for you when I am clearing the zone.

pwestolemyname

pantagruel01 said:

Hm. On reflection, just pulling a single room isn't really that big a deal, I was taking it as 'pull everything'. I've run into people who would go running off to room 2 in a museum and pull all the mobs in that room into room 1, and that's just being pointlessly malicious.

I don't even know how that could be done. Most mobs are so lazy and will stop chasing after a few steps.

pwestolemyname

patternwalker said:

I recently was on a Grab where a healer shielded everyone then herded what seemed like every mob in front of City Hall into one location and started to use their AoEs to attack. The rest of us were kind of stunned at first, but then ran in to fight. It was honestly the easiest Grab I'd ever been on. Everything just melted.

Healzorz R OP.

Seriously, as far as builds, there is a great healer build thread stickied here - https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline#/discussion/1210364/healer-builds/p1

pantagruel01

pwestolemyname said:

I don't even know how that could be done. Most mobs are so lazy and will stop chasing after a few steps.

Eh... they have bad pathing and lose track at I think 250', but if they aren't specifically set to leash you can drag them around as long as you're sort of careful. It used to be possible to drag the dino across the island and have it raid B17.

nepht

pantagruel01 said:

Being disruptive != being useful.

I must be the most useful person in CO.

spinnytop

nepht said:

pantagruel01 said:

Being disruptive != being useful.

I must be the most useful person in CO.

!= means 'does not equal' u3u

warcanch

spinnytop wrote: »

What's a "Grab"? j(@_@)j

You would know if you had a sweetie ;p

Thanks for offering, but no thanks. I have cats. What more do I need?​​

eyota2

When people do this I just leave the alert if its full of low levels. Have fun with your crap. No complaining, just leave.

spinnytop

eyota2 said:

When people do this I just leave the alert if its full of low levels. Have fun with your crap. No complaining, just leave.

Your loss o3o

eyota2

not really since I just do it for the daily and almost immediately join a moron free one right after. o3o

spinnytop

eyota2 said:

not really since I just do it for the daily and almost immediately join a moron free one right after. o3o

Mine will be done before the new one you join o3o

ls975

Spinny, we should totally do stuff together at some point. Between your "Aggro Everything" and my "I'll just AFK on EB attacks for the whole boss fight", we'd be unstoppable. Either that or pathetically ineffective. /s

but yeah, i never really do alerts because more often than not, even for XP alerts!, i always get grouped with Uber Deeps and just kinda skulk along sadly the whole thing feeling useless no matter the role.

beezeeze

ls975 said:

"I'll just AFK on EB attacks for the whole boss fight"

You might only be kidding but please never do this, it is x100 more annoying than a person like spinny who just steamrolls everything. At least in my opinion.

ls975

beezeeze said:

ls975 said:

"I'll just AFK on EB attacks for the whole boss fight"

You might only be kidding but please never do this, it is x100 more annoying than a person like spinny who just steamrolls everything. At least in my opinion.

Of course I'm kidding, I always try in group content. I only AFK when I'm soloing through Elites.

markhawkman

beezeeze said:

ls975 said:

"I'll just AFK on EB attacks for the whole boss fight"

You might only be kidding but please never do this, it is x100 more annoying than a person like spinny who just steamrolls everything. At least in my opinion.

Yeah, If I'm standing around watching Spinny kill things I know the mission won't fail.

spinnytop

ls975 said:

but yeah, i never really do alerts because more often than not, even for XP alerts!, i always get grouped with Uber Deeps and just kinda skulk along sadly the whole thing feeling useless no matter the role.

You could try breaking off and soloing groups? :'3

eyota2

spinnytop wrote: »

not really since I just do it for the daily and almost immediately join a moron free one right after. o3o


Mine will be done before the new one you join o3o

oh yea well maybe not. lol or... one more maybe... maybe i'll just afk sit till it's done then collect the reward.

spinnytop

eyota2 wrote: »

oh yea well maybe not. lol or... one more maybe... maybe i'll just afk sit till it's done then collect the reward.

This is acceptable.