Revisiting Archtypes?

natureyouscary

Tl;dr 1) do you think some could use some love. 2) what would you recommend for *insert AT* to better balance it.

Dunno if this is better in suggestions or here. After playing as silver for a while I have to say there are some ATs I really like, and others I wonder about their design.

I always appreciate free content, but most of them feel a bit outdated or ourclassed. Compared to other ATs not FF. Theyll always be out classed by FF that's fine.

natureyouscary

My personal suggestions would be to offer more ability choices when you level. Newer ATs typically are built this way but the older ones it's usually get a b and c.

criswolf09

I'll throw my opinion here. You see since 2015 the new dev team have been adding from small power tweaks to complete power revamps and these changes reflect in the powers of most archetypes, nearly all of the free ones have been revisited with the exception of the the Marksman, Glacier, the Radiant and the Mind. However each of the recent powerset reviews brought two things with them: Fixing the long standing bug of the diminishing returns of archetypes as well giving most archetype new powers along new power progressions and more choices. Even with the recent Unarmed review got a new free AT since 4 years when the Automaton was added. The Automaton had an horrible build when it was introduced but was revisited in december of 2016 with a better one. Premium ATs have also been revamped as well with the exception of a few ones.

TLDR, with each powerset review or power tweak ATs have been given new powers and more tools to survive.

natureyouscary

Ya I've noticed that. Some powers seem to have moved around. The radiant really needs to be revisited...great healer AT just half it's abilities don't feel like they fit. Also the charge atks are a bit long.
Think the biggest issue is not having more choices. Like at 6, 11, 14 if you basically always had 2 choices I think it would be an improvement . Just personal opinion.

riverocean

criswolf09 said:

I'll throw my opinion here. You see since 2015 the new dev team have been adding from small power tweaks to complete power revamps and these changes reflect in the powers of most archetypes, nearly all of the free ones have been revisited with the exception of the the Marksman, Glacier, the Radiant and the Mind. However each of the recent powerset reviews brought two things with them: Fixing the long standing bug of the diminishing returns of archetypes as well giving most archetype new powers along new power progressions and more choices. Even with the recent Unarmed review got a new free AT since 4 years when the Automaton was added. The Automaton had an horrible build when it was introduced but was revisited in december of 2016 with a better one. Premium ATs have also been revamped as well with the exception of a few ones.

TLDR, with each powerset review or power tweak ATs have been given new powers and more tools to survive.

I agree with all of this. Overall AT's are much, much better than they've ever been. And despite worries about diminishing returns, the Unleashed and a couple of the ranged dps AT's can still grab top DPS scores in open world events. I know we give the dev team a hard time, but they've worked hard to improve AT's. In fact, I'll go out on a limb and say many of the AT's are now fairly competitive with Freeforms. I actually still play AT's when I have a concept for an ALT but don't wan't to bother with planning a complicated build for it.

natureyouscary said:

Ya I've noticed that. Some powers seem to have moved around. The radiant really needs to be revisited...great healer AT just half it's abilities don't feel like they fit. Also the charge atks are a bit long.

Think the biggest issue is not having more choices. Like at 6, 11, 14 if you basically always had 2 choices I think it would be an improvement . Just personal opinion.

I agree with this. The Mind & The Radiant are frankly outclassed by The Blazing & The Witch. But the latter are Premium AT's so I would expect them to be better than their free counterparts. The Radiant should be revamped to take better advantage of the Celestial power framework - especially with the application of Illumination. It really isn't optimal. As far as the Mind goes, I never understood why The Mind wasn't updated to receive the Manipulator toggle. It was originally a control AT to begin with - so give it back some of that.

But overall, I'm very happy with how much better AT's are now than they were just a few years back. Some people still think they suck, which isn't entirely true any more.

rajakaji

It seems to me that the ATs have a lot of redundant attacks. You start off with a Blast at level 1, a few levels later you generally get a Cone AoE that completely blows the Blast away, and a lot of times at level 35 or 40 you get a massive power that completely blows away your Cone. Sometimes there's a few other upgrades along the way. I think it's a pretty common acknowledgement that you only really need one good single target, one good AoE, and maybe something to proc your resist debuff or powerset niche status effect. The rest can be devoted to Utility. Of course, that tends to lead to builds that take Form, Passive, self heal, and other utilities early on and don't get their main attacks until the teens or 20s, and that's not really great for leveling. So maybe not the best model for ATs. But still it's something to consider. Also, a lot of the ATs I've played mostly seem to lack access to the top tier Single Target dps power, which seems to be a necessity for Cosmics. Would be nice if the Grimior could have, Hex, Skarn's, and Soul Beam if going the damage rout.

And a lot of otherwise very strong ATs are lacking imo a crucial element. A way to heal themselves. Glacier and Behemoth are still pretty good tanks and I've seen good players MT cosmics and event bosses with them. But they're not terribly self sufficient in the healing department. Though probably experienced players have devices to compensate for this.

Newb, probably don't know a lot, but figured I'd offer my thoughts.

criswolf09

It is always welcome and constructive to talk about how silver players share their thoughts about the ongoing power reviews and revision of archetypes as well. Another thing for example let's see a 2011 Blade had very powerful attacks if you had enough energy to use them which was almost impossible. After each update till the current state in it is now with Relentless energy unlock plus it can heal itself a fairly bit. My personal experience with this archetype has been very good since the revamp and I like it a lot.

riverocean

rajakaji said:

So maybe not the best model for ATs. But still it's something to consider. Also, a lot of the ATs I've played mostly seem to lack access to the top tier Single Target dps power, which seems to be a necessity for Cosmics. Would be nice if the Grimior could have, Hex, Skarn's, and Soul Beam if going the damage rout.

And a lot of otherwise very strong ATs are lacking imo a crucial element. A way to heal themselves. Glacier and Behemoth are still pretty good tanks and I've seen good players MT cosmics and event bosses with them. But they're not terribly self sufficient in the healing department. Though probably experienced players have devices to compensate for this.

Newb, probably don't know a lot, but figured I'd offer my thoughts.

Well a good thing to remember about AT's is that they are mostly designed for team play or what some players all the "Trinity" (Tank, Healer, DPS). The hybrid AT's are supposed to break that mold, but there are some issues. For example, playing a hybrid is frowned upon in most Cosmic encounters. The Grimoire's AOPM is much weaker than FreeForm's AOPM running in full support mode. But the Grimoire is a great for soloing - despite some claims that it's not. I can happily Skarn's my way through most PVE encounters.

For Cosmics, IMHO it's best to grab one of the newer ranged DPS AT's like the Icicle. The Telekinetic is also quite good. Both have spamable spike damage powers and decent specs. Although, I have to admit I do enjoy playing my Witch for Kiga. She's wonderful at healing clumped together mobs of players, while also dealing dps. Plus the other players like getting that Aura of Arcane Clarity buff.

natureyouscary

Ya have to admit the witch looks badass. Will have to pick em up eventually.

criswolf09

From my personal point of view, the Witch is the best healer AT since it can have access to both Manipulator or Compassion as well Rebirth and Death Embrace, plus a lot of powerful utility debuffs like Sigils of Ebon Weakness or Curse.

roughbearmattach

rajakaji said:

It seems to me that the ATs have a lot of redundant attacks. You start off with a Blast at level 1, a few levels later you generally get a Cone AoE that completely blows the Blast away, and a lot of times at level 35 or 40 you get a massive power that completely blows away your Cone. Sometimes there's a few other upgrades along the way. I think it's a pretty common acknowledgement that you only really need one good single target, one good AoE, and maybe something to proc your resist debuff or powerset niche status effect. The rest can be devoted to Utility. Of course, that tends to lead to builds that take Form, Passive, self heal, and other utilities early on and don't get their main attacks until the teens or 20s, and that's not really great for leveling. So maybe not the best model for ATs. But still it's something to consider. Also, a lot of the ATs I've played mostly seem to lack access to the top tier Single Target dps power, which seems to be a necessity for Cosmics. Would be nice if the Grimior could have, Hex, Skarn's, and Soul Beam if going the damage rout.

The two lower tier attacks (blast and cone) have advantages that apply buff or debuffs. When you level up, do not just choose higher damage (going to Rank 3)--make sure you choose effects that will boost your best attack down the road.