I don't see how having 3 purely MA ATs is bad especially since 2 of them being dedicated to one role and the new 3rd is a hybrid. We have 2 (technically 3) Sorcery ones and 3 Munitions (technically 4). Ya'll seem to be trying to fix what isn't broken.
My problem isn't necessarily with multiple ATs using the same set, it's more that the new Dragon Spirit AT looks like they just tried to mash the Master and Fist together. Both of which in their current states already have a lot of similarities. The PTS AT Builds don't seem to utilize certain powers that I seriously think would help define them better. Not to mention, I'm not fond of the way the PTS ATs look like they will progress when leveling and the way their power choices are presented. The way leveling progression flows can be particularly awkward when the choice presented is primarily a comparison relative power with little regard relative function.
Relative function can determine how an ability plays out, but relative power determines how effective that ability will be. Relative power thus becomes more desirable to look into. Which sounds more appealing, a Single-target Stun (Crashing Wave Kick) or an AoE Stun (Dragon Kick)? Of course, many will be inclined to use the AoE Stun because it has more power/stuns more targets... nevermind how it is applied. The idea I had in mind is to take attack abilities with similar functionality (Click vs Click, Charge vs Charge, etc.) and THEN ask the player what they want in their abilities.
Since powers are now becoming more balanced, it is more prudent to provide the choice between powers that have similar function. Crashing Wave Kick vs Inexorable Tides is my example. Because both powers operate in similar ways (Both are clicks) and have similar relative power (Single Target Stun vs AoE Knock-up), the choice proposed is entirely based on what the player wants in an ability. In this situation, the choice becomes much more meaningful, as the player no longer will direct themselves toward the ability with higher relative power.
Once again, I keep these build suggestions in mind in the hopes that the ATs will be changed to ask the player what powers they want instead of how much power they want.
The Master
Con, Dex-Rec
Warden-Protector
- 1 Righteous Fists
- 1 Thundering Kicks
- 6 Thunderbolt Lunge OR Chained Kunai
- 8 Lightning Reflexes
- 11 Crashing Wave Kick OR Inexorable Tides
- 14 Form of the Master
- 17 Bountiful Chi Resurgence
- 21 Parry
- 25 Chi Manipulation
- 30 Dragon Kick OR Open Palm Strike
- 35 Masterful Dodge
- 40 Shuriken Storm OR Bladed Cyclone
The Fist
Dex, Rec-Str
Brawler-Vindicator
- 1 Vicious Strikes
- 1 One Hundred Hands
- 6 Mighty Leap OR Thunderbolt Lunge
- 8 Way of the Warrior
- 11 Elbow Slam OR Rising Knee
- 14 Form of the Master
- 17 Chain Kunai OR Bountiful Chi Resurgence
- 21 Parry OR Retaliation
- 25 Chi Manipulation
- 30 Dragon Uppercut OR Burning Chi Fist
- 35 Intensity
- 40 Smoke Bomb OR Evasive Maneuvers
Dragon's Spirit
Dex, Con-Rec
Warden-Arbiter
- 1 Vicious Strikes
- 1 Thundering Kicks
- 6 Elbow Slam OR Chained Kunai
- 8 Way of the Warrior OR Lightning Reflexes
- 11 Crashing Wave Kick OR Inexorable Tides
- 14 Form of the Master
- 17 Open Palm Strike
- 21 Retaliation
- 25 Chi Manipulation
- 30 Bountiful Chi Resurgence OR Conviction
- 35 Intensity OR Ascension
- 40 Fury of the Dragon
I could live with that Master build but it does show that the MA set has many low-tier utility powers which are pretty underwhelming. Things like Crashing Wave Kick are useful but they would be superfluous when you get something like Dragon Kick, because DK does more damage to more targets and applies an AoE stun which is just as strong as CWK's Interrupt. Having to include those Tier 1 powers also means missing out on a high impact power such as Burning Chi Fist, whose "double tap" effect (applying its own buff) means it can get past the Master's tendency to have problems getting decent damage numbers. But as long as it gets BCR early, it will work.
The Fist is more problematic. It's very squishy and in order not to die all the time while levelling / in Alerts we'd need to find an order in which it had both Dragon Kick and BCR as options before level 20 without having to choose between them.
Dragon Spirit is fine, as long as we add BCF as an option at 17.
"Street fighter" isn't really an accurate concept for this unless you mean somebody who is in reality a character from the game Street Fighter.
While i'm happy that we're receiving a new AT (and free to boot) that's now three ATs with martial art attacks and one with super strength. I long for the day CO creates a build more like Street Justice used to be; meaty punches, sweeping hooks, strikes more reminiscent of what you'd see in a saloon brawl than in a dojo. The secondary effect could be to apply Fear to keep enemies locked in place instead of sent careening through the air like the might powers do, so that you wouldn't have to chase after your targets.
The only not-flashy kick is Mighty Kick, but that's still closer to super strength than regular brawling. At this point the headbutt attack seems like it was added as an afterthought, maybe someday it'll become a power in a new unarmed melee AT.
It shouldn't be too difficult to put one one of those together, to be honest: rather like MA there are offensive and defensive versions of Might powers, but we only have the Behemoth (defence focused) as an AT and certain powers (hello Beatdown) largely going ignored. There is the usual issue with self-healing, however, and the need to keep cramming in the same old powers/mechanisms.... but it might be fun to try and build a Street Fighter type character. I shall have a go...
This AT is more Street Fighter than Dragon Ball Z. If you want more DBZ or even Naruto you’re requesting new ultimates, call one Dragon Nova, which is modelled on the Spirit Bomb from Dragon Ball
Shame they didn't take the build advice on this thread, although I suspect that's about dev time and resource. There were better builds than the ones they've put on to live.
Shame they didn't take the build advice on this thread, although I suspect that's about dev time and resource. There were better builds than the ones they've put on to live.
They really weren't.
<B><COLOR="blue">Behold, the greatest Nightmare returns!</COLOR></B>
Comments
My problem isn't necessarily with multiple ATs using the same set, it's more that the new Dragon Spirit AT looks like they just tried to mash the Master and Fist together. Both of which in their current states already have a lot of similarities. The PTS AT Builds don't seem to utilize certain powers that I seriously think would help define them better. Not to mention, I'm not fond of the way the PTS ATs look like they will progress when leveling and the way their power choices are presented. The way leveling progression flows can be particularly awkward when the choice presented is primarily a comparison relative power with little regard relative function.
Relative function can determine how an ability plays out, but relative power determines how effective that ability will be. Relative power thus becomes more desirable to look into. Which sounds more appealing, a Single-target Stun (Crashing Wave Kick) or an AoE Stun (Dragon Kick)? Of course, many will be inclined to use the AoE Stun because it has more power/stuns more targets... nevermind how it is applied. The idea I had in mind is to take attack abilities with similar functionality (Click vs Click, Charge vs Charge, etc.) and THEN ask the player what they want in their abilities.
Since powers are now becoming more balanced, it is more prudent to provide the choice between powers that have similar function. Crashing Wave Kick vs Inexorable Tides is my example. Because both powers operate in similar ways (Both are clicks) and have similar relative power (Single Target Stun vs AoE Knock-up), the choice proposed is entirely based on what the player wants in an ability. In this situation, the choice becomes much more meaningful, as the player no longer will direct themselves toward the ability with higher relative power.
Once again, I keep these build suggestions in mind in the hopes that the ATs will be changed to ask the player what powers they want instead of how much power they want.
The Master
Con, Dex-Rec
Warden-Protector
- 1 Righteous Fists
- 1 Thundering Kicks
- 6 Thunderbolt Lunge OR Chained Kunai
- 8 Lightning Reflexes
- 11 Crashing Wave Kick OR Inexorable Tides
- 14 Form of the Master
- 17 Bountiful Chi Resurgence
- 21 Parry
- 25 Chi Manipulation
- 30 Dragon Kick OR Open Palm Strike
- 35 Masterful Dodge
- 40 Shuriken Storm OR Bladed Cyclone
The Fist
Dex, Rec-Str
Brawler-Vindicator
- 1 Vicious Strikes
- 1 One Hundred Hands
- 6 Mighty Leap OR Thunderbolt Lunge
- 8 Way of the Warrior
- 11 Elbow Slam OR Rising Knee
- 14 Form of the Master
- 17 Chain Kunai OR Bountiful Chi Resurgence
- 21 Parry OR Retaliation
- 25 Chi Manipulation
- 30 Dragon Uppercut OR Burning Chi Fist
- 35 Intensity
- 40 Smoke Bomb OR Evasive Maneuvers
Dragon's Spirit
Dex, Con-Rec
Warden-Arbiter
- 1 Vicious Strikes
- 1 Thundering Kicks
- 6 Elbow Slam OR Chained Kunai
- 8 Way of the Warrior OR Lightning Reflexes
- 11 Crashing Wave Kick OR Inexorable Tides
- 14 Form of the Master
- 17 Open Palm Strike
- 21 Retaliation
- 25 Chi Manipulation
- 30 Bountiful Chi Resurgence OR Conviction
- 35 Intensity OR Ascension
- 40 Fury of the Dragon
And I will always be @DZPlayer122.
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The Fist is more problematic. It's very squishy and in order not to die all the time while levelling / in Alerts we'd need to find an order in which it had both Dragon Kick and BCR as options before level 20 without having to choose between them.
Dragon Spirit is fine, as long as we add BCF as an option at 17.
-Sterga
While i'm happy that we're receiving a new AT (and free to boot) that's now three ATs with martial art attacks and one with super strength. I long for the day CO creates a build more like Street Justice used to be; meaty punches, sweeping hooks, strikes more reminiscent of what you'd see in a saloon brawl than in a dojo. The secondary effect could be to apply Fear to keep enemies locked in place instead of sent careening through the air like the might powers do, so that you wouldn't have to chase after your targets.
The only not-flashy kick is Mighty Kick, but that's still closer to super strength than regular brawling. At this point the headbutt attack seems like it was added as an afterthought, maybe someday it'll become a power in a new unarmed melee AT.