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Discussion Thread: Power Changes

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  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited February 2018

    spinnytop said:

    Also, if that's not satisfactory then use the strategy I also already mentioned: aoe the NPCs down a bit first, then finish them off with the Ultimate. Nothing is forcing you to lead with the Ultimate - though I still would, for the aforementioned benefits of scattering them.

    The basic problem is that scattered enemies cannot be hit by AoEs, which dramatically reduces your damage output (typically by half or more) -- and even worse if you wound up knocking all your targets out of range. That's only an even tradeoff if it also halves enemy damage output, and does so for long enough for you to defeat some of the scattered foes.
    That works if you ignore the time cost. When you use your ultimate as an AoE you want to kill everything fast, not just shift the balance between kill or be killed your way a bit.

    If you do add in time costs, a big knockback is almost never going to be useful unless it oneshots most targets.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    aiqa said:

    If you do add in time costs, a big knockback is almost never going to be useful unless it oneshots most targets.

    Which runs into the problem that MVs are immune to falling damage. There shouldn't be any targets that are knockable but take no damage from falls.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    So, I tested the new reduced duration thundering kicks vs Qwyjibo. I eventually missed a dodge and died, but I don't think it was because of thundering kicks duration, it was because the way elusive monk works makes not being juggled by meteors super hard. Still, I think the shorter duration dodge buff, and the elimination of ebb and flow as a useful buff (the avoidance buff is completely useless), takes a style that was already finicky, dependent on top end gear (I could defiance tank any cosmic on blues and r5s. That's laughable for dodge), dependent on spamming a combo, and still quite brittle, and made it more so.
  • qawsadaqawsada Posts: 736 Arc User
    Don't forget aura dependents.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    qawsada said:

    Don't forget aura dependents.

    True, though again, that's not a new thing.
  • pubiwodipubiwodi Posts: 10 Arc User
    Bug: Shared healing from Gifts of the Storm triggering on nuisance heals from powers and specializations
    Where it happens: When receiving some heals while BCR + Gifts of the Storm is active
    What happens: Gift of the Storm's (GotS) heal-sharing function activates on what could be considered "nuisance" heals (20% of a relatively small heal), potentially wasting an instance of the buff. This is one of the original issues with the advantage.
    Among the powers/specializations found to trigger GotS are:
    • Sentinel aura.
    • Selfless Ally.
    • Mental Leech's (and other powers') Dependency.
    • Medical Nanites.
    • Support Drones.
    • Summon Shadows' Devouring Darkness advantage.
    • Rune powers (Expulse, Pillar of Poz, Moonstruck).
    • Sigils of Radiant Sanctuary.
    • Absorb Heat's heal-over-time (HoT) component.
    • The Restoration HoT from Neuroelectric pulse's Recharge and Mini Mines' Stim Pack advantages (other applicators of the buff don't trigger GotS).
    I did not test any devices or modifications, and there may be other, similar cases of powers or advantages applying a very small heal which triggers Gifts of the Storm.
  • lovehammer1lovehammer1 Posts: 416 Arc User

    I wonder if we'll see Lightning Reflexes worked on in order to make it a decent choice for end game tanking? Seems like this should happen, since this is the MA power revamp?

    I wouldn't bet on it. They have constantly made LR worse over the years, while continually finding news ways for people to cut right through LR as if it's not there at all. Giving you less time for the dodge to help you as well. End game tanking? How about making it playable, at least a little bit first.
    They don't want dodge to be a viable option for some reason. (End Game)

    I have no idea why. Don't just take my word for it. Stack it up against the other defensive sets...
    Let me know what you think in comparison.
  • rtmartma Posts: 1,198 Arc User
    Out of curiosity, are these Dodge/Avoidance bonuses going to be Flat %, scale to ???(Dex) or use rating (Since it would be hit harder with diminishing returns thus reduce it's efficiency)?
    Want to get to know me a bit better, Click me and take a read of My Dragon Profile Page, it's a bit dated but still relevant.

    I take this quote from a review that I agree with.

    "customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    rtma said:

    Out of curiosity, are these Dodge/Avoidance bonuses going to be Flat %, scale to ???(Dex) or use rating (Since it would be hit harder with diminishing returns thus reduce it's efficiency)?

    All avoidance buffs actually work like damage resistance (i.e. an increase to a divisor; base divisor is 1.25 if you have no bonuses), and rating points of avoidance are actually flat effect.

    Note that a vanilla LR build will usually have total avoidance of 400% or higher, which is why the avoidance buff on ebb and flow is pretty much useless to LR builds.
  • thebuckeyethebuckeye Posts: 814 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    Unintended Bonus things The Blade AT and The Unleashed AT are now able to apply Chi Flame through the advantage on Intensity. I don't have any parsing abilities on my computer, but what I was able to test, their DPS numbers went up based on observation of the numbers showing up on screen.

    Suggestion: Change the Tier on Elbow Slam to T1 to bring it in line with other Lunge Choices.
    Post edited by thebuckeye on
  • kaiserin#0958 kaiserin Posts: 3,078 Cryptic Developer
    pubiwodi wrote: »
    Bug: Shared healing from Gifts of the Storm triggering on nuisance heals from powers and specializations
    Where it happens: When receiving some heals while BCR + Gifts of the Storm is active
    What happens: Gift of the Storm's (GotS) heal-sharing function activates on what could be considered "nuisance" heals (20% of a relatively small heal), potentially wasting an instance of the buff. This is one of the original issues with the advantage.
    Among the powers/specializations found to trigger GotS are:

    Sentinel aura.
    Selfless Ally.
    Mental Leech's (and other powers') Dependency.
    Medical Nanites.
    Support Drones.
    Summon Shadows' Devouring Darkness advantage.
    Rune powers (Expulse, Pillar of Poz, Moonstruck).
    Sigils of Radiant Sanctuary.
    Absorb Heat's heal-over-time (HoT) component.
    The Restoration HoT from Neuroelectric pulse's Recharge and Mini Mines' Stim Pack advantages (other applicators of the buff don't trigger GotS).

    I did not test any devices or modifications, and there may be other, similar cases of powers or advantages applying a very small heal which triggers Gifts of the Storm.


    Wasn't able to reproduce this on: Stim Pack (any), Absorb Heat's hot, Medical Nanites .​​
  • pubiwodipubiwodi Posts: 10 Arc User
    kaizerin said:



    pubiwodi wrote: »

    Bug: Shared healing from Gifts of the Storm triggering on nuisance heals from powers and specializations

    Where it happens: When receiving some heals while BCR + Gifts of the Storm is active

    What happens: Gift of the Storm's (GotS) heal-sharing function activates on what could be considered "nuisance" heals (20% of a relatively small heal), potentially wasting an instance of the buff. This is one of the original issues with the advantage.

    Among the powers/specializations found to trigger GotS are:



    Sentinel aura.

    Selfless Ally.

    Mental Leech's (and other powers') Dependency.

    Medical Nanites.

    Support Drones.

    Summon Shadows' Devouring Darkness advantage.

    Rune powers (Expulse, Pillar of Poz, Moonstruck).

    Sigils of Radiant Sanctuary.

    Absorb Heat's heal-over-time (HoT) component.

    The Restoration HoT from Neuroelectric pulse's Recharge and Mini Mines' Stim Pack advantages (other applicators of the buff don't trigger GotS).



    I did not test any devices or modifications, and there may be other, similar cases of powers or advantages applying a very small heal which triggers Gifts of the Storm.




    Wasn't able to reproduce this on: Stim Pack (any), Absorb Heat's hot, Medical Nanites .​​

    Keep in mind AH's HoT and Medical Nanites are TEAM effects. Summon a pet or get in a team, then re-test.
  • kaiserin#0958 kaiserin Posts: 3,078 Cryptic Developer
    Yeah, I couldn't repro it on teams.
  • pubiwodipubiwodi Posts: 10 Arc User
    kaizerin said:

    Yeah, I couldn't repro it on teams.

    Weird. Did you try entering combat for Med nanites?
  • kaiserin#0958 kaiserin Posts: 3,078 Cryptic Developer
    Yup, those powers I listed were already tagged for not triggering the advantage, the rest on your list were not.​​
  • pubiwodipubiwodi Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    kaizerin said:

    Yup, those powers I listed were already tagged for not triggering the advantage, the rest on your list were not.​​

    I may have misinterpreted something then, my bad.
    Regarding other specs, I did not test Vindicator's HoT on kill, Protector's HoT on knock/hold, Arbiter Mastery, Sentinel Mastery, nor the various RegenerationRecovery-tied regen specs (Quick Healing/Recovery), so you might want to check those if you haven't.
    Thanks for the quick response.

    Post edited by pubiwodi on
  • kaiserin#0958 kaiserin Posts: 3,078 Cryptic Developer
    edited February 2018

    FC.31.20180108.11 Changes
    Powers
    • Fixed a bug where some aspects of circle powers could be dodged.
    • Fixed a bug where some healing specializations could be dodged.
    • Added a new flag to distinguish minor heals from major heals.
    • Added a new advantage to Shockwave that Knocks targets to you instead of down. Note: Please do not post any suggestions regarding Might in this thread, this advantage was created for the new archetype and this patch cycle is focused strictly on Unarmed Martial Arts.
    • Note: Please post any powers/effects that can be dodged. Make note that the combat flyover text may still say dodged (this is a bug), be sure to check to make sure the effect is actually being dodged before reporting.
    ​​
  • sergeantmahoff1sergeantmahoff1 Posts: 137 Arc User
    So like, I'm not sure if anyone else has asked it yet, and I haven't been able to get on the PTS cus' new hard drive, but if it isn't already, could dragon kick be PBAoE instead seeing it hits targets all around you? I dunno, it just seem appropriate to me now.
  • theultimaxtheultimax Posts: 57 Arc User

    So like, I'm not sure if anyone else has asked it yet, and I haven't been able to get on the PTS cus' new hard drive, but if it isn't already, could dragon kick be PBAoE instead seeing it hits targets all around you? I dunno, it just seem appropriate to me now.

    I'm not sure if it was listed, but it is now.

  • akapitakapit Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    still at ten seconds for lithe
  • pubiwodipubiwodi Posts: 10 Arc User
    spinnytop said:



    Bug: Elbow Slam - Falling Hammer doesn't refresh Demolish if the target already has the debuff on them.


    Elbow Slam's Falling Hammer advantage still does not reapply Demolish if target is already affected. Please clarify if this is intended behavior.


  • kaiserin#0958 kaiserin Posts: 3,078 Cryptic Developer
    edited February 2018

    FC.31.20180108.12 Changes
    Powers
    • Increased the duration of Lithe, Ebb and Flow, Quick maneuvering and Nimble Movements to 12 seconds (from 10).
    • Corrected the tooltip for the Rage of the Beast advantage on Intensity to display the correct values.
    • Increased Radius of Open Palm Strike to 4ft (from 3).
    • Slightly increased damage and cost on Dragon Uppercut.
    • Fixed a bug where buying the Demolishing Strikes advantage prevented One Hundred Hands from applying Chi Flame.
    • Standardized the damage of Chi Flame across attacks, previously the damage scaled with rank, now it's flat across ranks. Burning Chi Fist, Fury of the Dragon and Devastating Strike still apply an enhanced version.



    Rising Knee
    • New Advantage (1): Refreshes Chi Flame.


    Inexorable Tides
    • New advantage (2): Chance to apply Chi Flame.


    Open Palm Strike
    • New Advantage (2): Applies Devoid to your primary target when fully charged.



    Burning Chi Fist
    • Lowered the damage on this attack back to about where it was prior. Cost has been reduced as well.
    • Added a new advantage that increases the damage against targets affected by Demolish.
    • We're shifting around this power's damage a bit as we found it didn't benefit from other power interactions much due to it applying Chi Flame on its own, and was too much of a one hit wonder ability.
    ​​
  • theultimaxtheultimax Posts: 57 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    kaizerin said:


    Burning Chi Fist

    • Lowered the damage on this attack back to about where it was prior. Cost has been reduced as well.
    • Added a new advantage that increases the damage against targets affected by Demolish.
    • We're shifting around this power's damage a bit as we found it didn't benefit from other power interactions much due to it applying Chi Flame on its own, and was too much of a one hit wonder ability.
    ​​
    Whelp, guess I'll just keep using dragons claw. Considering you have apply TWO debuffs to actually make BCF on par.
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    I don't really feel like doing more parses. But just looking at the tooltip numbers, doesn't convince me about the single target performance.

    BCF: 1609 or 804+885
    Massacre: 1810

    I am not really seeing anything in the set to make up for that difference in base damage.
  • magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,268 Arc User
    Have you put the Ghostly strikes advantage on that? (Apologies if that's not the exact name, it's the one that makes the power do more dimensional damage than physical). The thing about the previous arrangement was that you could tap-then-charge the power - the first tap applied the debuff which the charged attack then used to significantly increase damage and reduce DR. It was very good for tanks/defensive passive toons but probably allowed DPS to get excessive spike damage effects.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User

    Whelp, guess I'll just keep using dragons claw.

    Until the claws pass ;)
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,740 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    aiqa said:

    I don't really feel like doing more parses. But just looking at the tooltip numbers, doesn't convince me about the single target performance.

    BCF: 1609 or 804+885
    Massacre: 1810

    I am not really seeing anything in the set to make up for that difference in base damage.

    Hm.. comparing R3 + GS for BCF w/ R3 Massacre (we'll assume the 30% special advs cancel eachother out, so no need to use them). Same no-stats/gear/stars Hybrid base:

    Massacre: 1094
    BCF: 495+545 = 1040

    24 per Bleed tick (1 sec); 72 per Chi Flame tick (2 sec).
    Also, the Dimensional dmg portion of BCF from the GS adv gets increased by 50% w/ the Chi Flame debuff.

    Massacre + 5x Bleed + Shredded = 1094(1.18) + 120(1.18) = 1432.52
    BCF + Chi Fame + Demolish = 495(1.18) + 545(1.5) + 36(1.5) = 1455.6

    Perhaps a DR on dmg debuffs more equalizes them, but BCF still looks pretty strong to me. Maybe I'm missing something, though.

    I guess its also worth mentioning you have to spend one more adv point for BCF, but for a complete build that's not necc a big deal.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,740 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    Also, its a minor thing, but is Drunken Master's Aversion buff meant to be a Chi effect? Atm its not.

    Fully Charging Dragon Kick gives the Rush adv (if taken w/ Focus), even if no targets are hit- which is spiffy. But it seems like the Lashing Tail adv's Nimble Movements buff still takes a hit target to proc. Bummer.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    I don't think it's a good idea to use huge resistance debuffs as a balancing tool. Base damage on the massacre setup is about 13% higher, which is to big a difference imo.
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,740 Arc User
    Bug: It seems like Instep Crush's Root on Inexorable Tides is no longer working when hitting targets.
    aiqa said:

    I don't think it's a good idea to use huge resistance debuffs as a balancing tool. Base damage on the massacre setup is about 13% higher, which is to big a difference imo.

    Perhaps, though that does seem to be where its balanced around atm. Reducing the resistance reliance would also mean they should buff up the base dmg of other attacks using Chi Flame w/ Dimensional splitting advs.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • kaiserin#0958 kaiserin Posts: 3,078 Cryptic Developer
    flowcyto wrote: »
    Also, its a minor thing, but is Drunken Master's Aversion buff meant to be a Chi effect? Atm its not.

    It is not a Chi effect. The buff is originally from Archery.​​
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,740 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    kaizerin said:


    It is not a Chi effect. The buff is originally from Archery.​​

    Ah I see. Thanks for clearing that up.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    flowcyto said:

    I guess its also worth mentioning you have to spend one more adv point for BCF, but for a complete build that's not necc a big deal.

    It's not a big deal for dps. It's problematic for tanks as it means you can't take Challenge.
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,740 Arc User


    It's not a big deal for dps. It's problematic for tanks as it means you can't take Challenge.

    That is true, though other attacks w/ Challenge can be weaved in as well.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • sahadiamxsahadiamx Posts: 17 Arc User
    HTML:
    Bug
    When you rank up Dragon Kick the sphere attack effect stops working, the tooltip of the power marks a sphere of 0ft for Rank2, for Rank3 the tooltip marks sphere of 10ft but it's not working when attacking mobs, also in Rank2 and Rank3 it's not applying the Stun debuff


    This is the tooltip in Rank2:
    image
  • kaiserin#0958 kaiserin Posts: 3,078 Cryptic Developer
    edited February 2018
    I cannot reproduce this on live.​​
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,740 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    Bug: Some MA powers seem to be unable to proc Steadfast on crit: Inexorable Tides, Shuriken Storm, Rising Knee, Devastating Strike, Fury of the Dragon, and Bladed Cyclone. All other MA attacks seem to proc it okay. This is happening on Live (and on the PTS, it seems).
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • xacchaeusxacchaeus Posts: 308 Arc User
    why is the END cost on devastating strikes so freaking high? 162?!? vorpal blade is 101 and unleashed rage is 123
This discussion has been closed.