Rey's origin

markhawkman

We've yet to see a full explanation. But SW8 had several hints in it.

I have a favorite theory of my own, but I'm curious what you guys have as your favorite theory.

jennymachx

Without getting into spoilers, it's pretty much been explained in the middle of the film. Like an "oh, that's it?" explanation. It's unremarkable. I feel like it can't really be talked about without spoilers involved and the thread would need a "SPOILER WARNING!" edit in the topic name.

SW7 suggested that Rey's parents had some significance as to why she's such a powerful force-wielder. SW8 doesn't acknowledge that significance. In fact, it's as good as a retcon and it's frustrating why the writers chose to go the route that they did. Maybe we'll get a huge reveal in SW9, who knows.

I have less than stellar opinions about SW8 and that's just a minor reason why. I've got bigger issues with the film.

baelogventure

Rey was created when the Mary and Sue joined together at the center of the universe.

flyingfinn

SW8 doesn't exist. Whole space opera ended at SW7.
Only things that i considered watching for now on, are Star Wars Stories.

markhawkman

jennymachx said:

Without getting into spoilers, it's pretty much been explained in the middle of the film. Like an "oh, that's it?" explanation. It's unremarkable. I feel like it can't really be talked about without spoilers involved and the thread would need a "SPOILER WARNING!" edit in the topic name.

SW7 suggested that Rey's parents had some significance as to why she's such a powerful force-wielder. SW8 doesn't acknowledge that significance. In fact, it's as good as a retcon and it's frustrating why the writers chose to go the route that they did. Maybe we'll get a huge reveal in SW9, who knows.

My favorite theory is that it's NOT her parents that are the source of her powers. So that stuff about how her parents is both true, and irrelevant.

jennymachx

markhawkman said:

jennymachx said:

Without getting into spoilers, it's pretty much been explained in the middle of the film. Like an "oh, that's it?" explanation. It's unremarkable. I feel like it can't really be talked about without spoilers involved and the thread would need a "SPOILER WARNING!" edit in the topic name.

SW7 suggested that Rey's parents had some significance as to why she's such a powerful force-wielder. SW8 doesn't acknowledge that significance. In fact, it's as good as a retcon and it's frustrating why the writers chose to go the route that they did. Maybe we'll get a huge reveal in SW9, who knows.

My favorite theory is that it's NOT her parents that are the source of her powers. So that stuff about how her parents is both true, and irrelevant.

Well then the trilogy has one final movie to convince me that Rey isn't an outright Mary Sue, because that presentation of her character has been made so much more apparent in Last Jedi than Force Awakens.

markhawkman

jennymachx said:

markhawkman said:

jennymachx said:

Without getting into spoilers, it's pretty much been explained in the middle of the film. Like an "oh, that's it?" explanation. It's unremarkable. I feel like it can't really be talked about without spoilers involved and the thread would need a "SPOILER WARNING!" edit in the topic name.

SW7 suggested that Rey's parents had some significance as to why she's such a powerful force-wielder. SW8 doesn't acknowledge that significance. In fact, it's as good as a retcon and it's frustrating why the writers chose to go the route that they did. Maybe we'll get a huge reveal in SW9, who knows.

My favorite theory is that it's NOT her parents that are the source of her powers. So that stuff about her parents is both true, and irrelevant.

Well then the trilogy has one final movie to convince me that Rey isn't an outright Mary Sue, because that presentation of her character has been made so much more apparent in Last Jedi than Force Awakens.

I've seen a lot of people say they think she' descended(granddaughter or great-granddaughter) from Palpatine. Which... makes sense to me. She DOESN'T have any family left, and Luke Skywalker is partly to blame for that.

bulgarex

You know, we don't have any known notable lineage for the Skywalkers before Anakin. I quite like the idea that someone can just be born the first in their family to be powerful in the Force. It's rather meritocratic.

markhawkman

It's unclear if it's actually genetic. Luke and Leia are twins and Luke is seemingly a lot more powerful.

beezeeze

Rey is no more of a Mary Sue than Luke or Anakin was...

but hey I always kinda thought the idea of her being related to any of the characters in the pervious films was kinda dumb, it is a big galaxy and there are a lot of people in it. She'd be even more of a Mary Sue character if she was suddenly all like "Oh yeah my great granddaddy was so and so, you know that REALLY famous person who never once mentioned having any family."

pantagruel01

Rey being related to characters in the previous film would not significantly change her mary sue-ness anyway (which I found less pronounced in Ep8 than I did in Ep7).

jennymachx

Going into spoilers.

Rey did next to no training on Luke's planet. The only single instance of any real training was a meditation session. That's all the training that's been potrayed. Yet, Rey shows herself to have mastered a proficient style of saber-fighting technique while Luke watched in amazement (he didn't train her those), a style that is much more refined than shown during her fight with Kylo in SW7. Furthermore, without said training, she already knows how to use the force to lift a pile of boulders, something that Jedi in the past had to go through a lot of training to master. What really was the point of her seeking Luke out and wanting to learn more about the force? During the whole of SW8, Rey has consistently shown that she can "do no wrong" and hasn't shown any real character flaws or any real struggle to define her as a hero overcoming real adversity.

Rey is no more of a Mary Sue than Luke or Anakin? In comparison, Luke went through absolute struggle. Luke struggled with his training because of his naivety. He thought with the limited training he received, he could go toe to toe with Vader. He failed spectacularly during their first duel. He lost his right hand as a result. It was a learning experience for him to help him eventually become a full-fledged Jedi Knight.

Anakin seem to have it better at first since he was the chosen one and was more powerful than another other Jedi, but his character is deeply flawed. His arrogance, hot temper, the trauma of losing his mother, the indifference of the Jedi Council towards him, the love of Padme and ever-present affinity for the Dark side of the Force eventually got him so broken and corrupted that he became the galaxy's second most evil entity. It took a monumental effort on Luke's part to get him to eventually turn back to the Light and eventually bring balance to the Force.

Luke and Anakin are most certainly not Mary Sues compared to Rey, not by a long shot.

beezeeze

Luke trained for a half an hour on the falcon with obi-wan and spent a weekend with yoda.(or however long it took the others to get from hoth to cloud city.) Yeah sure he lost to Vader the first time, you got me there.

jennymachx

beezeeze said:

Luke trained for a half an hour on the falcon with obi-wan and spent a weekend with yoda.(or however long it too the others to get from hoth to cloud city.) Yeah sure he lost to Vader the first time, you got me there.

And even then he's done a heck of a lot more to get to the level that he did than Rey. Yoda actually drilled Luke during his training. As for Rey?

Luke did **** all when Rey sought him out. There was next to no training on Luke's part, but that's just because of the terrible writing behind his character in SW8

baelogventure

beezeeze said:

Rey is no more of a Mary Sue than Luke or Anakin was...

Luke: Spent his spare time flying T-16s through Beggar's Canyon with Biggs, able to hit womp rats with on board blasters, part of an entire Rebel squadron, coached by Obi-Wan's Force Ghost and helped by Han Solo to blow up the Death Star. Doesn't directly confront Vader until Episode 5, is partially trained by Yoda and still loses.

Anakin: Literally created from The Force, only Human able to pilot a Pod Racer and wins, has been doing so for at least a year. Only gets into battle due to auto-pilot and does so late after the other Naboo pilots and the droids are fully engaged, heavily assisted by R2D2, accidentally flies into hangar of the Lucrehulk and starts pressing buttons, manages to launch torpedoes and destroys the ship from the inside. Loses to Count Dooku in Episode 2 despite being almost a fully-fledged Knight under Obi-Wan's training.

Rey: Some girl that lives alone on a desert planet, only scrapes by from salvage, never piloted any vehicle in her life, can somehow out-fly First Order TIE pilots the first time behind the controls of the Falcon despite literally no previous experience with anything. Defeats Kylo Ren in their first encounter despite literally no previous training in any aspect and Kylo being trained by both Luke and Snoke.

Yeah, Luke and Anakin are totally on the same level of Mary Sue as Rey.

qawsada

At this point, I could only accept that she was a clone of one or many important characters (most likely Kenobi), and her parents are irrelevant because they are not her real parents at all. There is no way that she is this powerful unless something happens to her in her infancy or she just a boring Mary Sue.

flyingfinn

She's alternate reality universe Vader, not Anakin.

beezeeze

I disagree with most of the sentiment here but I don't really care enough to write up half a page of spoilers so you all win for now I guess.


and to be clear I love starwars it is the first movie I can remember watching(on laserdisc sometime in the late 1980s) hell I even don't mind the prequels and I binge watch the whole series on almost a yearly basis. Clone Wars is one of the best animated series I have ever seen and I love all of the newer films that have been released so far.(Rogue One is my favorite.)

markhawkman

baelogventure said:

Rey: Some girl that lives alone on a desert planet, only scrapes by from salvage, never piloted any vehicle in her life, can somehow out-fly First Order TIE pilots the first time behind the controls of the Falcon despite literally no previous experience with anything. Defeats Kylo Ren in their first encounter despite literally no previous training in any aspect and Kylo being trained by both Luke and Snoke.

Actually, Rey's job was ripping parts out of spaceships, so she knew how they worked. Also, while she didn't have experience with flying the Millenium Falcon, she did have a lot of experience flying smaller craft like the air bike she used to get around the salvage yard. Seriously, we first see her free-climbing through the skeleton of a Star Destroyer, then getting onto her airbike to take the parts she'd acquired back to town.

Also Kylo wasn't really trying to kill her.

championshewolf

Well pointing out the obvious, Rey is no more of a Mary Sue than the Skywalker's were Gary Stu's. Of course, no one likes to hear that.

That being said I did enjoy the Last Jedi, it did it's own thing and added to the universe. It's kind of hilarious people say that The Force Awaken's was copying the original trilogy verbatim, but now the Last Jedi does it's own thing and everyone hates it. Though I get why, because many people seem to be still not over the fact the EU was never part of the main movie canon. Even Lucas has always said this, but people still invent a fantasy world where Lucas was supposedly reading and giving the green light to every Star Wars novel, despite he, himself, said he never read any of them.

That being said, back on topic. As far as Rey's parentage. It was answered. Again I am glad they subverted expectations and opened up the lore of the franchise from the chosen one aspect that the prequels and original trilogy beat people over the head with. I had a few problems with the movie, but that's to be expected. Since spoiler territory is a thing I won't say much but honestly I like the direction that has been taken instead of the common theories and expectations of directions for the story. It makes it its own beast now instead of people trying to fall back on the common complaint of it just copied this or that.

Honestly, the message of the story told has been missed, and that makes me sad. It had a few messages actually. But then again, ever since Disney took the name away from Lucas, because people hated everything Lucas did ironically, people are trying to say he needs it back for some reason despite the prequels are the most lamented things about the Star Wars franchise. And really, it boils down to a bunch of people upset that the crappy EU novels weren't turned into the movies because I guess dropping a moon on Chewie would have been nobler or something.

*shrugs*

markhawkman

championshewolf said:

As far as Rey's parentage. It was answered. Again I am glad they subverted expectations and opened up the lore of the franchise from the chosen one aspect that the prequels and original trilogy beat people over the head with. I had a few problems with the movie, but that's to be expected. Since spoiler territory is a thing I won't say much but honestly I like the direction that has been taken instead of the common theories and expectations of directions for the story.

Well, it seems to me as if there's two ways to interpret it. The other is that what he said was only actually true of her mother and father. It still keeps the story beat of how she was waiting for no good reason. Also, making her the descendant of a famous, but dead, person doesn't really change a lot in the story since her ancestor isn't part of the story.... unless...

Palpatine is a Force Ghost. The novelization of SW7 had a minor reimagining of the fight between Rey and Kylo. In the book version, she kept hearing a whisper in her ear telling her what to do. The book doesn't say whose voice it was, merely that it was "sinister". Or maybe the voice was Snoke. If Snoke even knew she existed. I know a lot of people think Sith can't become force Ghosts, but... where was that ever said?

sheridaaphrodite

-deleted-

monaahiru

baelogventure

markhawkman said:

Actually, Rey's job was ripping parts out of spaceships, so she knew how they worked. Also, while she didn't have experience with flying the Millenium Falcon, she did have a lot of experience flying smaller craft like the air bike she used to get around the salvage yard. Seriously, we first see her free-climbing through the skeleton of a Star Destroyer, then getting onto her airbike to take the parts she'd acquired back to town.

Also Kylo wasn't really trying to kill her.

Vader wasn't trying to kill Luke and Dooku wasn't trying to kill Anakin, doesn't mean they didn't get their **** whipped.

Also, I want you to go tell a Pilot that the mechanic that fixes his ship is equally qualified to fly.

I also want you to to tell a Pilot that someone who rides a motorcycle is also equally qualified to fly.

No, they're not the same. At all.

championshewolf

markhawkman said:

*stuff to avoid breaking spoiler tags*

Alright well, well here is my view on it, so spoiler tags;

The fan theory that Rey was descended from Palpatine was interesting, and even I saw the things people were looking at, (or was it because after I was told I saw them?) But there is an incredible problem with said theory; Rey's Age. This is why Rey wouldn't work as Luke's kid, this is why Rey wouldn't work as Obi-Wan's kid. And it certainly wouldn't work for Palpatine's kid, since it's been well past 30 years between the events of The Force Awakens and Return of the Jedi (Rey was 19 years old in The Force Awakens).

While the parentage of Rey can be called into question as Rylo just trying to get under her skin, the message that is being conveyed by the story over all that a lot of people missed, is that anyone can be a powerful Jedi and Force user. Hell the central theme of the story was that legends were built up around Luke specifically that were not reflective of the person he actually was, taking the novels written about him being a deity if not god, and turning them on their ear and saying "Hey, these were just stories this is not who he really was."

The central theme was that the legends could grow bigger than that actual person, and help inspire hope but also that you don't need superior parentage or breeding to become special. Hell that was demonstrated not only in stating that Rey's parents were nothing but a bunch of boozers looking for money to supply their habits, but also at the end of the movie when you see the kid reach out and the broom is Force pulled into his hands as he looks off in the distance.

I think that was a more important message, and the underlying additional message that adhering to ancient traditions that only help reinforce the conflict might not be the way to help bring about peace. Hence Yoda destroying the Jedi texts. The constant drum beat for 7 movies before this one has always been there are two sides of the Force, but finally we are told the Force is neither good or evil, it just is, and it can be used for good things, it can be used for bad things, but you really can't have one without the other.

markhawkman

It makes NO sense due to age if you say Rey is Palpatine's daughter, but grand-daughter or great-grand-daughter work.

Also, Yoda didn't destroy the texts, just the shrine that used to house them. He apparently knew that Rey and Finn had already relocated the texts. It was mostly a symbolic gesture.

I do get the bit about why Yoda and Luke decided it was time for the Jedi to end. The very concept of the Jedi was fundamentally flawed. It's like that old line goes: "certain things we hold to be true as Jedi are only true when viewed from a certain angle."

beezeeze

markhawkman said:

Also Kylo wasn't really trying to kill her.

Chewie was. he got shot in the guts with a bowcaster, usually a one hit kill but kylo still took it like a champ.

beezeeze

as for the rest of this...

Disregard.

championshewolf

markhawkman said:

*here for consistency of who I am replying to*

There was no scene where Rey was seen taking the texts. In fact, Yoda made it quite clear in his chat with Luke that the texts did not matter, and they weren't exactly "page turners" in his own words.

As far as Palpatine's grand daughter or great grand daughter, just no. That's a bigger stretch than saying Rey is Obi-Wan's daughter. Palpatine didn't strike me as the type to concern himself with "mortal" pleasantries either, and more laser focused on his goals to destroy the Jedi. It's as implausible as it is silly.

The things that tie Rey to Palpatine are tenuous at best, and most of them were basing off the way she held the light saber. Beyond that, other conjecture was based on what the commercials for The Last Jedi meant, that are now greatly defunct (such as Luke saying he felt this kind of power once before).

Saying it was in the book is also tenuous at best, since it's also proven that the voice in her head could have easily be Snoke, since Snoke stated he was the one that linked Kylo and Rey together in that "bond" they thought they had. So all threads for the Palpatine part have thoroughly been cut and burnt away. And I think the message was clear they wanted to get away from the weight of the original trilogy holding down the property to in this story, as its message was about new beginnings after all. It's something that tied down the Prequels badly, having to follow a path that was predestined and had no real way to go from teh weight of expectations as well as a rather meandering plot from the original trilogy.

markhawkman

@championshewolf

Well, Yoda said something like "the texts contain nothing she doesn't already have." Which makes me think Yoda really did know they were gone.

Honestly, I'm not actually convinced the Palpatine thing is true, but it is the possibility I like most.

nepht

Snoke was an anti-climax U_U

beezeeze

nepht said:

Snoke was an anti-climax U_U

I agree with that, especially since we never really learned anything about him.

markhawkman

Yeah, it was weird for them to not even tell us who Snoke was or where he came from.

jennymachx

After thinking about it some, it isn't really weird at all with what happened with Snoke, because various things that had significance or implied significance from SW7 got thrown out the window in SW8. Rey's parentage for one. Another would be the build-up and anticipation created at the end of SW7 with Rey offering Luke his lightsaber, only for Luke to...

throw it away like a piece of unwanted garbage, trivializing its important value and history, the legacy left behind by both his father and Ben, all for cheap laughs.

Also, it made no sense for Luke to leave behind a map that can be used to find him, if he is ever needed once more, only for him to reveal that...

he intended to be left alone to die all along.

And somewhere between SW7 and SW8, the decision was obviously made for Kylo to the be the main antagonist of the trilogy and not Snoke, seeing how Snoke, presented as such an omnipotent force user and villain comparable to the Emperor (I'd say he's more powerful than Palpatine) was...

killed by a cheap force trick that is so beneath him, and without him even sensing it happening.

The continuity problems between SW7 and SW8 are pretty glaring.

The director and writers for SW8 seemed to have wanted to disassociate the film from SW7 as much as they could, I suspect because of the criticism for SW7 being too much like A New Hope and they wanted to avoid making something similar to Empire Strikes Back. They wanted to create something new and different, which is fine and admirable, but it could have been done so much better and some of the writing decisions and their logical inconsistencies made for the film just took me out of it.

And I'm still frustrated with...

Luke's final stand. He could have been given a heroic last stand by force-lifting his X-Wing out of the sea and physically turn up on Crait to wreck **** up, properly delaying the First Order to allow the Resistance to escape, giving his death a lot more significance and weight compared to him practically using intergalactic VRchat.

championshewolf

Well more stuff;

My view of Snoke;

Honestly, I don't see his death as an anti-climax, though I would have appreciated more of his backstory. But then again, we knew little about the Emperor (not even his name) in the original trilogy beyond he was ugly, old, and evil. We didn't find out anything major about him until the prequels. Honestly, I found his death to be satisfying, and it pleased me they were subverting and not going down the same path of the last two trilogies of master and apprentice route. One of the biggest complaints of Kylo was he was just a Vader wanna-be and that was true, but he shed that skin and I am glad they made him the center of the New Order. I just hope they make him even more imposing, because he finally did what the Sith laws have always stated, the Apprentice killed his Master, and I find it baffling why people are astonished by this. Snoke was focused intently on Rey and would not have noticed his apprentice plot.

My view on Luke;

I was not expecting the direction they took with him, but if you look at the history of Star Wars, it was actually a logical direction. Here you have a farm boy, who never had formal Jedi training, except a couple months, at best, later in his life and carried with him the weight of the entire Order on his shoulders. On top of that, he had this legend and legacy put on him by being the one that "killed" the Emperor and help to brought down tyranny and evil by helping dismantle the Empire and restore the Republic. A weighted burden that he obviously tried to live up to when he started the temple taking on new apprentices, himself (something the Jedi didn't even allow, only allowing one master one apprentice and Luke was far from a Knight, let alone a Master), and even his own nephew. A task he was woefully unprepared for, and he obviously failed at greatly in his weakness. And he spent his years in seclusion regretting that weakness he had as even his eyes reflected his judgment was clouded by fear, hatred and regret until he came to, but it was too late as his own nephew thought he was there to kill him.

Some may argue he had Force ghost Ben and Yoda and even his father, but did he really? Even in Empire and Return they never really showed up to give much guidance beyond you need to get to this plot point. Yoda showing up was basically exactly what I expected, Luke at his most confused getting a swift kick in the **** and told to grow the hell up, something he had been getting told since A New Hope.

And like a few others I expected an epic he raises the X Wing out and flies off to encounter everything, but again I am glad they subverted it. Hell, earlier in the story they already foreshadowed the outcome of the ending with Luke when Kylo tells Rey that Force Projection across the galaxy would kill anyone attempting it. And honestly, it made that final show down between Luke and Kylo more epic to find out that Kylo was being lead on by his mentor and didn't detract from that moment before. But there were plenty of clues that Luke wasn't there to begin with, namely he looked clean and not disheveled, and honestly; would any fan have let it go that an X-Wing stuck in the water for what can only be described as a decade or more, even worked? I seriously doubt a repair job would have been done in a few hours, let alone days or months.

The only part I am iffy on is his death. On one hand, Luke meets the peace he desired. He did something noble, he redeemed himself, and he confronted his apprentice. He joined with the Force and we could very likely see Luke in the next episode as a Force Ghost to. On the other hand, it felt like an out for Mark Hamil just like Hans death was an out for Harrison Ford. I know Ford has expressed he's wanted Han to die since Return of the Jedi and has been sick of Star Wars ever since, but Hamil I don't know. We may see Luke as a Force Ghost because Hamil has always seemed chipper in interviews and such, though I know he expressed displeasure with Luke's portrayal in Last Jedi, until he actually saw the movie then he recanted that and says he regretted ever saying it.

My view on Rey and Kylo;

Honestly, these two were a distraction at best and weren't the focal of the main plot for a majority of the Last Jedi. They were the red herring of what was really going on in the background and the ground work being laid forward. It's interesting how much focus people put on these two characters but they were window dressing here. Only in the final act do they come to the fore and actually become important characters, symbolizing the direction of Star Wars; that for the future to grow the past has to be shed and a new beginning must happen, else the cycle will just repeat itself over and over again as it has done for thousands of generations.

I am very glad about Rey not being related to anyone in general. Again I despise chosen one plot lines, which is what Luke, Anakin and so forth have always been since Star Wars first inception. The fact that Rey could very well be the child of a pair of drug addicts who were desperate enough for a fix to sell their own child, impresses me. It actually makes her a more believable character with a background that grounds her more in a reality. Is she a Mary Sue? Eh, no more than Luke was being able to do many Force tricks that take Padawans years to master in a few short days. But I think the trick with this new trilogy is they are trying to make the Force look, well, impressive. Because let's face it, beyond a few Force pulls and Force Lightning, nothing impressive has ever been done outside of video games. But we are told that the Force is something to be feared and a great power, especially in the hands of evil. Now we got to see it and honestly I like that.

In the end, I think the hatred for Rey in particular is, she's not a Skywalker (or Palpatine or Kenobi) and therefor her character is stupid for being so Force strong. It makes no sense to me, in the long run, since it was established in the prequels that people can have varying degrees of Force Sensitivity and control over the Force, that training just helps refine such control. And people label Kylo as just another Anakin. In a way I agree, but to me Kylo is Anakin done right. Starting out as a kid that lashes out at everything in anger but now having evolved more, his character growth has truly fallen to the dark side, teh right way, that Anakin should have.

My view on the Future of Star Wars;

This one is sticky but again ties into the theme of new beginnings that the Last Jedi portends to. The old generation is either dying or dead now (both characters and actors - RIP Carry Fisher and Kenny Baker) and a new generation has to take up the torch. But you can't have a torch taken up by a singular person anymore. This leads to the potential that many new side stories and adventures can be created for Star Wars, as we saw in that kid at the end who Force Pulled the broom to their hand, and creating what can truly and hopefully be an expanded universe. The Force is now a neutral power, instead of being totally good or totally evil, and the Last Jedi even shows that the Jedi themselves were flawed by totally rejecting the dark side itself in some vane pursuit of pure good. In their own way, they were just as evil and vile as the Sith they despised, mercilessly hunting them down to the point that the two groups totally hate one another just out of principal.

The prequels kept going on and on about balance to the Force, but it was a misused phrase in the end. The question becomes is how it will be taken from there. Both Kylo and Rey see their view as right; Kylo wanting control and pure Order to rule, no matter the cost, but clouded by his own hatred. He has become the embodiment of the Sith ideal now, including destroying his own Master. Rey on the other hand has become about preserving life, seeking a peaceful resolution and balance in ideals and views. She was reluctant to fight Kylo and didn't want to kill him, but she was left with no choice. The thing the Jedi Order never became.

As of right now the Last Jedi left off with the New Order the overwhelming victor with one small pocket victory for the Rebellion. A rag tag group of survivors, that got beaten and bloodied, badly. And I mean badly. Not even the Empire Strikes Back went that far. The next installment will most likely see them potentially go beyond just simple Jedi and Sith, Light and Dark.

My final view of the backlash;

My view is still the same. I think the majority of hate comes from super fans who were projecting their expectations way too hard (aka everyone thought Rey was the daughter of Palpatine (specifically), Luke or even Obi-Wan) and it turns out she's a nobody, because super fans think only chosen ones or those who come from superior genetic stock (aka Skywalker) should have strong Force powers. But people have been shown to be powerful throughout Star Wars regardless of upbringing in the Force. The argument is she is a Mary Sue because she is shown to use them quickly and fast and expertise, but this isn't true. And she used them no faster than Luke did, who is shown Force Choking Gamorreans (aka a dark act by Jedi code) in Return of the Jedi, as if it was second nature to him. And Luke also stood toe to toe with Vader, even if Vader was toying with him. Luke's formal training with a Light saber was shown to be weak at best. Never mind that in Return of the Jedi Luke's best was just hacking away like a lumberjack and some how overpowering his own father who was basically stated to have light saber skills that rivaled even Master Yoda.

I also think the backlash is because people wanted them to follow the awful EU novels. I've read several of them and while there are a couple of gems that are interesting, the majority of EU novels, especially things like the New Jedi Order and such, were just stinkers. Luke was turned into a god, basically, flip flopping back and forth between light and dark and in later novels they killed off characters in ways that felt like slaps in the face (a moon being dropped on Chewie... seriously? No I won't let it go). People still hold onto this belief that the EU was the official canon for Star Wars post movies, but even George Lucas himself said it was its own things separate from his movies, and he said that decades ago and has always repeated that. The EU wasn't just made non-canon recently because Disney bought the property. It was always non-canon, and it seems many fans can't accept the facts or reality, hence many believe that Disney is just being evil to the fans.

I like to at least see where this is going and how it plays out. I just find it silly and ironic that people demand more Star Wars, but when they get it they dismiss it as "not their Star Wars" because it didn't follow some badly written fan fiction created decades ago or it didn't follow the head canon they created for it. And it's the same group of people that practically crucify Lucas for the prequels on a regular basis with dozens to hundreds of theses written about the man and his fall from grace. Seems people can't be pleased either way because they think they own the property, despite the only people that can say where the story goes are those that own it and those they contract to write the stories.

roughbearmattach

One of the final images of the film, the child stable-keeper using the force to telekinetically grab the broom, hits home the "anyone could be a force-user" message. For this message to work, the next film can't suddenly reveal that she has special lineage--unless the film makers want to undercut Last Jedi.

markhawkman

@roughbearmattach I'm not sure that's meant to be a major plot thing though. But, the thing about choosing your destiny does seem to be a big plot point.

That's a good point about how plans change. It's hard to be sure if any hints in Ep7 are valid.

roughbearmattach

markhawkman said:

@roughbearmattach I'm not sure that's meant to be a major plot thing though. But, the thing about choosing your destiny does seem to be a big plot point.

That's a good point about how plans change. It's hard to be sure if any hints in Ep7 are valid.

I don't think it's a major plot point at all, but it helps with the theme.