Dual Damage Utility mod

chaosdrgnz43

It may sound OP, but wouldn't it be interesting if 1 utility mod boosts 2 damage types? Like Crushing/Fire, Fire/Ice, Paranormal/Dimensional, Slashing/Piercing. Would be awesome if the mod both boost the damage types by +10%.

If not dmg types, then dual powerset mods. (e.g. HW/Fire, Might/HW, Might/Earth, Force/Earth, Sorcery/Darkness, Infernal/Bestial, etc.)

Just thought of this because of the new mods recently. Not sure if those are really useful.

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spinnytop

chaosdrgnz43 said:

It may sound OP

Not at all!

chaosdrgnz43 said:

Would be awesome if the mod both boost the damage types by +10%.

All right you convinced me, it sounds OP now 10% to both is obviously too much. Going by the way that the other dual mods work, it would have to cap out at around 6%.

Now let's go into the next reason that it's OP: So now I take one of your new dual mods that has say I dunno... TK and darkness on it... and then I also slot a pure TK mod, and now I have lots more than intended damage bonus to TK \o/ Then I slot a rank 5 darkness in my secondary and I also have that for darkness. Go me! Maybe they could make it so that the duals don't stack with the pures, so that would be solved.

Now for the next problem. People are already complaining about "mod bloat", ( personally I don't think there's really much reason for that atm ). However, 24 power sets lead to 276 different combinations for mods. Even if we just go by damage type ( which is unlikely to be implemented ) that's 36 new types of mods.

With the attribute mods, dual mods makes sense, since they stack with one another and by using the dual mods you can get a bit more in both attributes than you would get if you used single mods and split them among both attributes - the game has always had a precedent for this type of stat distribution as one can see on non-slotted gear that has two attributes as opposed to one. However, damage mods don't stack so there's no dynamic like this for them, so if you do want multiple damage type bonuses it makes sense to slot separate damage mods - which is possible, you can have up to 3 separate damage mods slotted. I've done this myself, though generally I don't since there's really no need to since not all of your powers need to have max damage potential.

roughbearmattach

This is a great idea, though the damage bonus should be around +5% or +6% tops, as Spinny pointed out.

Another fun Utility mod idea: a slight movement boost, such as R3 giving +4% jump height/distance and +3% speed overall, going up to +10% for the R9 variety.

It's a utility slot, so I would be happy to see more mods that aren't just damage.

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kamokami

10/10 is obviously not happening so we can stop talking about it.

But the idea of split buffs is interesting. Instead of an even 6/6, I'd prefer uneven splits but with stacking allowed. Most attack rotations don't deal equal amounts of dmg from their various powers. The uneven split would allow you to match the buffs to your dmg output. If you need them to be even you could then stack 2 of the mods on top of each other.

For example if the buff split was 2/3 to HW + 1/3 to Fire....you could then stack that with a mod that gave 1/3 to HW + 2/3 to Fire.

spinnytop

gradii said:

That makes absolutely no sense, just becuase you're using powers from 2 sets doesn't make it possible to double your potential damage output, not after the way they've changed debuffs. it should give 10% to both at rank 9.​​

10% + 10% = 20% doesn't make sense to you?

Also you realize you're asking for 1 mod that is effectively 2 mods right? The problem here is very simple.

kamokami said:

For example if the buff split was 2/3 to HW + 1/3 to Fire....you could then stack that with a mod that gave 1/3 to HW + 2/3 to Fire.

Doesn't that end up being the same as slotting 1 HW mod and 1 Fire mod? >.>

Also doing that then doubles the number of potential mods we would see cause now each combination of 2 has 2 versions @_@

nevyn34

I think it would be 10 X 10 / (Sum:Powersets) = Effective bonus. You aren't getting a 20% boost to every power, just a 10% boost to any power you use.

It is asking for two mods to be one mod though.

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chaosdrgnz43

spinnytop said:

kamokami said:

For example if the buff split was 2/3 to HW + 1/3 to Fire....you could then stack that with a mod that gave 1/3 to HW + 2/3 to Fire.

Doesn't that end up being the same as slotting 1 HW mod and 1 Fire mod? >.>

Also doing that then doubles the number of potential mods we would see cause now each combination of 2 has 2 versions @_@

The purpose of my suggestion is to combine two powerset mods so you won't have to sacrifice a slot for another dmg utility mod. That way, you can keep Gambler for more cost discount.

But yeah, I realize a 10/10 boost at r9 is absurd. But if it became around 7/7 or 8/8 it would still be nice. XP

jaazaniah1

I would like a utility mod that boosts all my damage, just not as much as if I were dealing only 1 type of damage. A guy I am working up right now has attacks from Melee, Gadeteering, PA and Munitions. Maybe a mod 2-3 percentage points below what a single dedicated attack mod would provide?

nevyn34

That’s not a bad idea. It would encourage build diversity.

roughbearmattach

Such a mod would have to have some "does not stack with . . . " provision to keep things in check.

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spinnytop

nevyn34 said:

I think it would be 10 X 10 / (Sum:Powersets) = Effective bonus. You aren't getting a 20% boost to every power, just a 10% boost to any power you use.

So long as they don't stack with single damage mods. If they stack, that's where the 20% comes from.
Btw, 10x10 / powersets, if you were using 2 power sets, would equal 50% damage bonus. Not sure that's quite how that would be calculated.

Assuming they don't stack, you would then be better off slotting a single damage mod in your primary gear, and a rank 5 single damage mod in your secondary gear.

chaosdrgnz43 said:

The purpose of my suggestion is to combine two powerset mods so you won't have to sacrifice a slot for another dmg utility mod. That way, you can keep Gambler for more cost discount.

That only makes sense if a design goal is to take our 2 slots and effectively make them 3 slots. Currently the goal seems to be that we get 2 slots, and we have to make choices as to what goes in them. Want the second damage type buffed? Gotta let go of that cost discount.

chaosdrgnz43 said:

But yeah, I realize a 10/10 boost at r9 is absurd. But if it became around 7/7 or 8/8 it would still be nice. XP

Still too much. Reference other split mods, you can hope for 6% at rank 9 at most, maybe 5.5%

jaazaniah1 said:

I would like a utility mod that boosts all my damage, just not as much as if I were dealing only 1 type of damage. A guy I am working up right now has attacks from Melee, Gadeteering, PA and Munitions. Maybe a mod 2-3 percentage points below what a single dedicated attack mod would provide?

I'm guessing you'd get 1-2% on that.

nevyn34 said:

That’s not a bad idea. It would encourage build diversity.

Build diversity is not hampered by not having max damage bonus on every power. If you refuse to make a build that uses powers that don't have a corresponding damage mod slotted, then the only one discouraging build diversity is you. The only power you actually need the extra damage bonus for is your primary nuke. Your aoes don't need it, and any other powers you took for their effects don't need it either.

Mixing power sets is perfectly viable and always will be.

roughbearmattach

spinnytop said:

Assuming they don't stack, you would then be better off slotting a single damage mod in your primary gear, and a rank 5 single damage mod in your secondary gear.

Most characters do not have secondaries with a core mod slot. That's really only for endgame gear.

spinnytop

roughbearmattach said:

Most characters do not have secondaries with a core mod slot. That's really only for endgame gear.

Those characters also don't really need to worry about damage mods.

nevyn34

I didn't say anything about build diversity other than it would help it a little. All that other stuff came from your own head, not mine.

spinnytop

nevyn34 said:

I didn't say anything about build diversity other than it would help it a little. All that other stuff came from your own head, not mine.

"I didn't say anything about that except when I said something about that." Okay then. Whatever your point is, you've expressed it in some fashion.

nevyn34

Thats not what I said either. Are you sure you’re reading at an adult level?

kamokami

spinnytop said:

Also doing that then doubles the number of potential mods we would see cause now each combination of 2 has 2 versions @_@

So we'll have 500+ more mod types in the utility dmg slot. I don't see the problem.

jaazaniah1

If only I could put other than stat mods in all that OV gear.

roughbearmattach said:

spinnytop said:

Assuming they don't stack, you would then be better off slotting a single damage mod in your primary gear, and a rank 5 single damage mod in your secondary gear.

Most characters do not have secondaries with a core mod slot. That's really only for endgame gear.

spinnytop

kamokami said:

So we'll have 500+ more mod types in the utility dmg slot. I don't see the problem.

Cause you can afford all that shared bank space u3u

nevyn34 said:

Thats not what I said either. Are you sure you’re reading at an adult level?

Are you willing to admit to having said anything? o3o

nevyn34

I can neither confirm nor deny that line of questioning.

roughbearmattach

spinnytop said:

roughbearmattach said:

Most characters do not have secondaries with a core mod slot. That's really only for endgame gear.

Those characters also don't really need to worry about damage mods.

I disagree. I have alts with merc/heroic gear that do not have Cosmic secondaries.

spinnytop

roughbearmattach said:

I disagree. I have alts with merc/heroic gear that do not have Cosmic secondaries.

In what scenario do they benefit from lowering the damage output of their primary nuke?

Also how much hideout bank space do you want to devote to mods.

roughbearmattach

spinnytop said:

roughbearmattach said:

I disagree. I have alts with merc/heroic gear that do not have Cosmic secondaries.

In what scenario do they benefit from lowering the damage output of their primary nuke?

Also how much hideout bank space do you want to devote to mods.

How does getting a damage boost utility mod lower the damage of their primary nuke?

What are we even discussing now?

spinnytop

If you're slotting a dual damage mod, then you're not slotting a single damage mod which means that no matter which of the two damage types your primary nuke is it is getting less damage bonus.

kamokami

@spinnytop said: Cause you can afford all that shared bank space u3u

If the mods are seen as useful enough for people to be concerned over their storage then they are probably useful enough to exist.

If we're talking about me, more mods won't be my problem because I don't see the point in storing stuff I'm not going to use. I'd rather sell it to buy stuff I want or junk it to make room for stuff I want.

spinnytop

Yeah we need more mods for people to junk o3o

pantagruel01

I would rather have a primary utility with 3 mod slots and reduced effect per slot, and leave all the mods single type.

spinnytop

pantagruel01 said:

I would rather have a primary utility with 3 mod slots and reduced effect per slot, and leave all the mods single type.

That's interesting. Limit the slots to rank 5 like the secondaries.

pantagruel01

spinnytop said:

That's interesting. Limit the slots to rank 5 like the secondaries.

Was thinking more like -30% to its effect. I doubt Cryptic wants to discourage people from buying upgrade cats.

kamokami

@spinnytop said: Yeah we need more mods for people to junk o3o

No we don't. If most of them would be junked instead of used or sold then they should not be made.

But if they are useful then they should be made despite the odd sentiment of "I'm storing too much useful stuff already so don't make any more".

In either case, use it or junk it, storage space is not a significant enough to factor into the descision of whether to make 0 new mods, 200 new mods, or 500 new mods. It's about what will be most compelling to use and rank up.

spinnytop

Well like I've stated, I don't think these will be compelling enough to use or rank up since ultimately using the mod is actually a downgrade from a single stat mod.

chaosdrgnz43

How about we mix the boosts? For example,

(Mod Name)
+XX% dmg boost to Powerset powers
+X% dmg boost to specific dmg type (e.g. Crushing, Slashing, Elemental, etc.)

markhawkman

+7% MA and +7% Crushing seems fair. Yes, some builds get a tiny boost, but not much.

spinnytop

7/7 still seems unlikely, and on the other hand would also still be a downgrade. That's the awkward thing here. Asymmetric boosts still suffer from the same issue.

markhawkman

Well some specific abilities would see it as a +14% boost.

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roughbearmattach

Having a damage type boost would already be different than the powerset boosts we have now.

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