Can we please buff becomes?

flunkydave

Becomes are super nice to play with, but by god are they so weak. Becomes like Black Talon, which looks badass and really fun to play, but his damage output is so low, even a level 24 would outdo a level 40 Black Talon(Just tested the Black Talon's damage output at Level 40, the SMG shot barely reaches 200 damage whereas a normal SMG shot would hit for 600 at least).

Or, for example, Become Doomlord. This one is legit hard hitting, a perfect example of what a become should be. But there's definitely room for more attacks, like a normal lifedrain or Summon Undead.


All I want is Becomes to get a buff and be a bit stronger than they are now. They are very underwhelming and not worth it.

avianos

The fact they are currently on the special event vendor for the week boggles my mind

I may add that Becomes are worthless for Endgame since they drag you down (you are free to prove me wrong) they are more useful for casual alert stuff

legendarylycan

(lack of) power's only part of the issue for me - the majority is that you can't rearrange their abilities

i like having certain abilities in certain slots, and i absolutely CANNOT work with the default layouts on any become device (which is why i didn't get any of the hunter or werewolf perks from last year's bloodmoon)​​

omnilord

To me Becomes are like Action Figures. Awesome if I pick one up from loot, but I'm not going to actually purchase them. I do understand that they can be part of a character's concept though, so it wouldn't be that fun to say change into a Black Talon, just to be roflstomped by a New Purple Gang lackey.

sterga

For something that normally costs as much as a premium AT, Becomes are trash. Giving them away for free is asking for too much.​​

magpieuk2014

Becomes can be useful - if you've got one of those builds in mind which doesn't really work well at lower levels (or an AT like the Witch, which is really painfully dull to level), then I tend to use them for levelling up; they only really fall away from effectiveness at Level 25 or so, by which time yr build should be ready to take over. It's quite fun stumbling about the place being an Evil Mummy or Frankenstein, too....

avianos

The only Become Device I used is the Become Ghost (the crimson halloween edition) for my Inferno, Blade and Tempest ATs when I farm Cybermind for Vigilance
The reason: The become has Devour essence, self healing for AT with low survability for Cybermind when there is no healer in PUG

Become Doomlord and Celestial are trully the Top Tier becomes the game have got over the years... and they both behind a Lockbox paywall (vouncher still requires lockboxes so...)

My other complain about Becomes beyond the powers is the costumes

I wish we had the ability to costumize fully the Becomes' costumes for our themes and not lock our characters behind premade models...​​

opalflame

I agree. The only becomes that are really worth getting right now are doomlord and celestial.

decorumfriends

I only use them on my concept character that ONLY uses them, never his own powers. As mentioned above, they're only really of any use in Alerts, but I had no expectations of otherwise. They fun little things to play around with, but I don't think they were meant to be anything else. Certainly they were never meant to actually replace a character, not on the level even an AT can do.

layene

avianos said:

Become Doomlord and Celestial are trully the Top Tier becomes the game have got over the years... and they both behind a Lockbox paywall (vouncher still requires lockboxes so...)

I totally agree with your points but I wanted to let you know that the Doomlord is actually a Questionite purchase and not behind a paywall.

spinnytop

avianos said:

Become Doomlord and Celestial are trully the Top Tier becomes the game have got over the years... and they both behind a Lockbox paywall (vouncher still requires lockboxes so...)​​

Avi... have you ever tried to acquire a Doomlord?

ashstorm1

The "Become Black Talon" device is a total swindle. Months ago, i bought one from the AH for what seemed to be a ridiculously low price, with hopes that it would prove interesting to use...

By the Gods, was i wrong...

Not only did Black Talon hit about as hard as a tetraplegic granny, but to top it all, the device was actually glitched (understand "glitched" in the way that it was supposed to be a temporary device, yet could actually be used indefinitely). Naturally, you-know-who was extra-prompt at fixing this...

So now i have a bound-to-character and totally useless 15 minutes temporary device to turn into an armored idiot that has been stupidly sitting in my inventory for circa one year... XD

markhawkman

shadowfang240 said:

(lack of) power's only part of the issue for me - the majority is that you can't rearrange their abilities

i like having certain abilities in certain slots, and i absolutely CANNOT work with the default layouts on any become device (which is why i didn't get any of the hunter or werewolf perks from last year's bloodmoon)​​

Sol Amulet and Talbot's Talisman are even worse glitched than most becomes in that they set all your stats to 5, and have just as much survivability and damage as what you'd normally expect of a player character with no stats.

Honestly the easiest perk for BITE! is prob the best anyways, beat up 100 werewolves(can be done without transforming) and get a costume unlock that's a silver bullet emblem.

championshewolf

Become devices were just a hackney way to allow players to have multiple "builds" as was originally intended, but honestly, I don't know how to buff them to make them more than just novelty without making them vehicles 2.0, aka totally overpowered or totally useless. Personally, I would rather development resources go to allowing multiple builds on the same character instead, but that would be a pipe dream, itself, since multiple builds would probably require a massive engine update.

avianos

layene wrote: »

I totally agree with your points but I wanted to let you know that the Doomlord is actually a Questionite purchase and not behind a paywall.

O O O P S
I complety forgot that

spinnytop wrote: »

Avi... have you ever tried to acquire a Doomlord?

Don't sass me Boi z(U.U)z​​

sterga

Become devices are sold for money. They are about the same price as a premium AT but are trash. Cryptic should not be selling garbage to their players. This alone is enough reason to update or remove them from the cash shop and sell them via in-game currency for cheap.

Becomes should have similar stats and function as a normal build. At level 40, they can be as powerful as a regular character with r5s and heroics. With the limited number of powers, inability to customize, and inability to ever be more powerful, that seems fine for a device that has similar cost to a premium AT.​​

avianos

You know I have thought some ideas on how to improve Becomes Devices (and Sidekicks

What if you could use special MODs for Becomes like you can do for Vehicles (which ARE becomes in the first place)​​

jaazaniah1

Eh, I wouldn't mind if the Becomes were just discontinued. They are less useful than vehicles and cost real money. They are kind of a sucker sale. I'd vote for making them purchasable with Q. There is no way in the world that they are going to see a review and upgrade in the near future.

Just curious though, how do the loyal side kicks stack up in powers/usefulness compared to Becomes?

markhawkman

So am I correct in thinking becomes are approximately equal to an AT with junk gear and no specs? Maybe change that?

championshewolf

markhawkman said:

So am I correct in thinking becomes are approximately equal to an AT with junk gear and no specs? Maybe change that?

No, because ATs are good to use, just bad players get behind them and don't bother to utilize or maximize the builds.

markhawkman

championshewolf said:

markhawkman said:

So am I correct in thinking becomes are approximately equal to an AT with junk gear and no specs? Maybe change that?

No, because ATs are good to use, just bad players get behind them and don't bother to utilize or maximize the builds.

I'm not talking about build skill, but rather a build where certain things are just missing. For example not bothering to fill in the spec tree. Also, well, at least some probably have stats that are calculated based on what was considered normal back before On Alert. And as we all know, post On Alert gear has much better stats. Especially when you start looking at gear that's better than purple quality.

championshewolf

markhawkman said:

championshewolf said:

markhawkman said:

So am I correct in thinking becomes are approximately equal to an AT with junk gear and no specs? Maybe change that?

No, because ATs are good to use, just bad players get behind them and don't bother to utilize or maximize the builds.

I'm not talking about build skill, but rather a build where certain things are just missing. For example not bothering to fill in the spec tree. Also, well, at least some probably have stats that are calculated based on what was considered normal back before On Alert. And as we all know, post On Alert gear has much better stats. Especially when you start looking at gear that's better than purple quality.

What gear is better than purple quality? You mean the set gear from the Q store? Couldn't pay me to use it beyond leveling. Purple gear is a stepping stone to better gear as well. And the ATs have been getting updated as well. But they aren't intended to be superior to FF, as FF is basically build anything you want, so comparing to an FF of course an FF will always come out looking superior because you can finely optimize it.

elsawhitworth

> @jaazaniah1 said:
> Eh, I wouldn't mind if the Becomes were just discontinued. They are less useful than vehicles and cost real money. They are kind of a sucker sale. I'd vote for making them purchasable with Q. There is no way in the world that they are going to see a review and upgrade in the near future.
>
> Just curious though, how do the loyal side kicks stack up in powers/usefulness compared to Becomes?

I don't know about others but I find the sidekicks more useful as they can draw fire and attack independently. Really helps to get one that either works with your powerset or covers gaps in it.



The Becomes really just need to be brought in line with ATs with stats and spec effects at a reasonable level or with abilities that can't otherwise be had in AT like ultimates for whatever AT they mimic (given their stats it wouldn't nearly be as effective as a freeform using those powers after all)

flyingfinn

Becomes have abilities that even FFs don't have...
And for equality towards everyone, those powers (and costume pieces) should become available for FFs so people can become a Become they want to become.

markhawkman

championshewolf said:

markhawkman said:

championshewolf said:

markhawkman said:

So am I correct in thinking becomes are approximately equal to an AT with junk gear and no specs? Maybe change that?

No, because ATs are good to use, just bad players get behind them and don't bother to utilize or maximize the builds.

I'm not talking about build skill, but rather a build where certain things are just missing. For example not bothering to fill in the spec tree. Also, well, at least some probably have stats that are calculated based on what was considered normal back before On Alert. And as we all know, post On Alert gear has much better stats. Especially when you start looking at gear that's better than purple quality.

What gear is better than purple quality? You mean the set gear from the Q store? Couldn't pay me to use it beyond leveling. Purple gear is a stepping stone to better gear as well. And the ATs have been getting updated as well. But they aren't intended to be superior to FF, as FF is basically build anything you want, so comparing to an FF of course an FF will always come out looking superior because you can finely optimize it.

i mean stuff like Distinguished and Justice(GCR gear) when I say "better than purple".

Hmm I just looked at a become Frank and it actually does give decent attribute stats, but the offense/defense etc.. stink. Also it only has 8 powers iirc, 1 tp, a block, a passive, and 5 attacks.

spinnytop

championshewolf said:

What gear is better than purple quality? You mean the set gear from the Q store? Couldn't pay me to use it beyond leveling. Purple gear is a stepping stone to better gear as well. And the ATs have been getting updated as well. But they aren't intended to be superior to FF, as FF is basically build anything you want, so comparing to an FF of course an FF will always come out looking superior because you can finely optimize it.

Eh, I thought this was a conversation about becomes, not AT vs FF?

markhawkman said:

So am I correct in thinking becomes are approximately equal to an AT with junk gear and no specs? Maybe change that?

Seems accurate. Also in most cases they don't have as many powers as an AT, so an AT that forgot to take all their powers too. Personally I've never seen much tactical value in becomes beyond the Werewolf become, since you can switch to that, hold block, and regen health ( oh and the Doomlord for the rez, of course ). They always just seemed more like "just for fun" items... which is why I never bought any besides the werewolf one since they're pretty expensive for what they provide. I guess the idea is "You push a button and have access to X more powers, on the same character" but I've never been able to figure out a situation in which the provided powers would actually handle a situation better than my AT would ( other than the becomes that can rez, since most of my toons can't rez ).

So if you wanna sell these things to someone like me you need to inject a whole lot more tactical value into them, cause right now I wouldn't even buy these things for 50 zen.

guyhumual

The only use I've had for the become devices is for dealing with low level missions with a character that can't survive said missions with their own powers and for travel powers like tunneling or flight when I didn't want those travel powers on my character. They're garbage, I thought they were garbage back when I was silver, and it really feels like they're drastically over priced even if they were at half the cost. Even for an event item they're drastically overpriced. A vehicle is so much better to have in 90% of the situations. There are missions chocked with mobs where having a scarb tunneling is nice, there are certain builds that don't get good attacks or passives till level 11 or later, maybe your toon doesn't have flight and you need to get on top of a building for finding foxbats or something, but apart from that I highly recommend staying away from become devices.

championshewolf

markhawkman said:

championshewolf said:

markhawkman said:

championshewolf said:

markhawkman said:

So am I correct in thinking becomes are approximately equal to an AT with junk gear and no specs? Maybe change that?

No, because ATs are good to use, just bad players get behind them and don't bother to utilize or maximize the builds.

I'm not talking about build skill, but rather a build where certain things are just missing. For example not bothering to fill in the spec tree. Also, well, at least some probably have stats that are calculated based on what was considered normal back before On Alert. And as we all know, post On Alert gear has much better stats. Especially when you start looking at gear that's better than purple quality.

What gear is better than purple quality? You mean the set gear from the Q store? Couldn't pay me to use it beyond leveling. Purple gear is a stepping stone to better gear as well. And the ATs have been getting updated as well. But they aren't intended to be superior to FF, as FF is basically build anything you want, so comparing to an FF of course an FF will always come out looking superior because you can finely optimize it.

i mean stuff like Distinguished and Justice(GCR gear) when I say "better than purple".

Hmm I just looked at a become Frank and it actually does give decent attribute stats, but the offense/defense etc.. stink. Also it only has 8 powers iirc, 1 tp, a block, a passive, and 5 attacks.

Distinguished is orange gear if you want to get technical. It's basically purple+ it's still purple gear.

markhawkman

It's purple gear in the same way that purple gear is blue+....

hasukurobi

jaazaniah1 said:

Just curious though, how do the loyal side kicks stack up in powers/usefulness compared to Becomes?

They are on a similar level to summoning the big spider or so. They can do some useful things and generally survive well enough. So they are a pretty solid pet but nothing more special. Considering you cannot really control them though they are not as precise as becomes but considering that they do not really detract from your DPS or Survivability in any way (Unless you need to watch out for pets shooting something they shouldn't) they tend to be just fine.

pwestolemyname

If they upped the power of Becomes, they'd have to up the price, of course. Either way doesn't really bother me. To me, they are like vehicles, superfluous pieces of the game that some dev got a wiggle on for, so wasted a bunch of time and money doing. I'd rather see resources directed to pretty much anything other than Becomes.

legendarylycan

no, they wouldn't have to up the price, because they are woefully underpowered for the price they're at now - and cryptic knows it, otherwise they wouldn't have given them away for practically nothing during the first week of the anniversary​​

pantagruel01

shadowfang240 said:

no, they wouldn't have to up the price, because they are woefully underpowered for the price they're at now - and cryptic knows it, otherwise they wouldn't have given them away for practically nothing during the first week of the anniversary​​

They weren't being given away for practically nothing. They were being offered at a price that would be a big pain to grind; you could also use salvage but then wouldn't actually be saving anything.

darqaura2

With that being said they are still OVERpriced for what they do. So if they buffed them to actual be you know . . . useful, then maybe the CURRENT price would be justified.

theravenforce

I think Becomes are nice, but I would agree with the notion to discontinue them.

I would prefer though that all the abilities/powers from Become Devices were ported over to useable versions for players and placed within appropriate power sets, as it would be a shame to loose some of them forever.

I think also some of their costume pieces are quite nice, so I'd like to see those be made available to players.

Maybe have some sort of future store in game where we can trade in maybe, two of the same "BECOME DEVICE" and unlock all of their powers and costume pieces, Account WIDE of course.

darqaura2

theravenforce said:

I think Becomes are nice, but I would agree with the notion to discontinue them.

I would prefer though that all the abilities/powers from Become Devices were ported over to useable versions for players and placed within appropriate power sets, as it would be a shame to loose some of them forever.

I think also some of their costume pieces are quite nice, so I'd like to see those be made available to players.

Maybe have some sort of future store in game where we can trade in maybe, two of the same "BECOME DEVICE" and unlock all of their powers and costume pieces, Account WIDE of course.

I would prefer this.

sterga

Uh, Become devices are the exact same price as a premium AT but are worse than the gimpiest AT. Unlike an AT, the energy issues will never go away, they will never gain powerful attacks / combos, and generally get less useful as you level.

If Becomes were buffed in power and price, they would be a rippoff in a different way. And they probably would still be worse than an AT since those do have some degree of customization. Becomes would need one hell of a mega buff to justify a higher price point.

theravenforce wrote: »

Maybe have some sort of future store in game where we can trade in maybe, two of the same "BECOME DEVICE" and unlock all of their powers and costume pieces, Account WIDE of course.

Are there really that many costume bit and powers to justify a $23 price tag? Especially since it sounds like it would only be for that Become and not all of them. People flipped their **** over $10 sets. I don't see that going over well.​​

theravenforce

sterga said:

Are there really that many costume bit and powers to justify a $23 price tag? Especially since it sounds like it would only be for that Become and not all of them. People flipped their **** over $10 sets. I don't see that going over well.​​

That is a point, considering all the new costume pieces we have now...the only things I can imagine off the top of my head which are possibly coveted are the bottom half of the Djinn Becomes.

Ideally we'd just trade in one Become Device for all its powers and costumes, however, with that I have a horrible feeling that if that was implemented it would be something shitty like per character or something equally lame and '**** flip' inducing.

championshewolf

markhawkman said:

It's purple gear in the same way that purple gear is blue+....

What is different from purple to distinguished? The only marked difference is set bonuses. So yes, it is the same gear, and if you actually play any game, you would also know that orange quality is above purple (and also has increased stats from it), but in this case there is little difference between set pieces and purples you can get. Legion gear had the same number of slots. The difference between blue and purple is actual stat numbers (and generally quite a bit of difference there), the only difference in purple and "orange" is set bonuses that require a number of pieces to even attain said bonuses, which means that the difference is 0 without having a set number of pieces to receive the extra bonus. AKA what set pieces do in games like WoW to.

So no, purple gear is not blue+ gear, and what your representation is basically, false.

biffsmackwell

championshewolf said:

markhawkman said:

It's purple gear in the same way that purple gear is blue+....

What is different from purple to distinguished? The only marked difference is set bonuses. So yes, it is the same gear, and if you actually play any game, you would also know that orange quality is above purple (and also has increased stats from it), but in this case there is little difference between set pieces and purples you can get. Legion gear had the same number of slots. The difference between blue and purple is actual stat numbers (and generally quite a bit of difference there), the only difference in purple and "orange" is set bonuses that require a number of pieces to even attain said bonuses, which means that the difference is 0 without having a set number of pieces to receive the extra bonus. AKA what set pieces do in games like WoW to.

So no, purple gear is not blue+ gear, and what your representation is basically, false.

You sure are going a long way to defend your point. Even a thing such as set bonuses makes the gear better. There's a reason to get the orange/gold/whatever gear instead of purple gear. If it were exactly the same or worse, then I would agree that it's not better than purple. But saying that just because its stats are the same as purple and disregarding any other advantages it has OVER purple is absolutely hilarious. I've seen you reach before but this is a new level.

Orange is better than purple. Even orange rocks are better than purple ones.

Oh man my head is spinning.

championshewolf

biffsmackwell said:

championshewolf said:

markhawkman said:

It's purple gear in the same way that purple gear is blue+....

What is different from purple to distinguished? The only marked difference is set bonuses. So yes, it is the same gear, and if you actually play any game, you would also know that orange quality is above purple (and also has increased stats from it), but in this case there is little difference between set pieces and purples you can get. Legion gear had the same number of slots. The difference between blue and purple is actual stat numbers (and generally quite a bit of difference there), the only difference in purple and "orange" is set bonuses that require a number of pieces to even attain said bonuses, which means that the difference is 0 without having a set number of pieces to receive the extra bonus. AKA what set pieces do in games like WoW to.

So no, purple gear is not blue+ gear, and what your representation is basically, false.

You sure are going a long way to defend your point. Even a thing such as set bonuses makes the gear better. There's a reason to get the orange/gold/whatever gear instead of purple gear. If it were exactly the same or worse, then I would agree that it's not better than purple. But saying that just because its stats are the same as purple and disregarding any other advantages it has OVER purple is absolutely hilarious. I've seen you reach before but this is a new level.

Orange is better than purple. Even orange rocks are better than purple ones.

Oh man my head is spinning.

Not really, since the set bonuses aren't going to be a huge advantage. Hell my tank is using heroic pieces and doing just fine. I think people are trying really, really hard to make believe that set pieces are going to tip the scales in a favor of any direction, but they give only a slight edge that really isn't going to do much of anything that you couldn't already do. So yea, they are just purple gear. Now if they were like, say, legendaries in WoW or any other game, aka orange gear, then you would have a point. Beyond that they are just a color in CO.

I mean using the logic of "orange is better than purple" would be provably false since heirloom gear isn't even good enough to match purple, if you are really being serious about builds.

I mean really, more power to you, that you are going to try and believe that the set gear is pushing anyone over the edge (watching people still struggle with Kiga, Qwyji, and Teleiosaurus speaks otherwise) but the differences are minute, at best and non-existent without said sets together.

markhawkman

dumb sidebar aside.... the point here is that become devices don't give you good stats.

biffsmackwell

championshewolf said:

biffsmackwell said:

championshewolf said:

markhawkman said:

It's purple gear in the same way that purple gear is blue+....

What is different from purple to distinguished? The only marked difference is set bonuses. So yes, it is the same gear, and if you actually play any game, you would also know that orange quality is above purple (and also has increased stats from it), but in this case there is little difference between set pieces and purples you can get. Legion gear had the same number of slots. The difference between blue and purple is actual stat numbers (and generally quite a bit of difference there), the only difference in purple and "orange" is set bonuses that require a number of pieces to even attain said bonuses, which means that the difference is 0 without having a set number of pieces to receive the extra bonus. AKA what set pieces do in games like WoW to.

So no, purple gear is not blue+ gear, and what your representation is basically, false.

You sure are going a long way to defend your point. Even a thing such as set bonuses makes the gear better. There's a reason to get the orange/gold/whatever gear instead of purple gear. If it were exactly the same or worse, then I would agree that it's not better than purple. But saying that just because its stats are the same as purple and disregarding any other advantages it has OVER purple is absolutely hilarious. I've seen you reach before but this is a new level.

Orange is better than purple. Even orange rocks are better than purple ones.

Oh man my head is spinning.

Not really, since the set bonuses aren't going to be a huge advantage. Hell my tank is using heroic pieces and doing just fine. I think people are trying really, really hard to make believe that set pieces are going to tip the scales in a favor of any direction, but they give only a slight edge that really isn't going to do much of anything that you couldn't already do. So yea, they are just purple gear. Now if they were like, say, legendaries in WoW or any other game, aka orange gear, then you would have a point. Beyond that they are just a color in CO.

I mean using the logic of "orange is better than purple" would be provably false since heirloom gear isn't even good enough to match purple, if you are really being serious about builds.

I mean really, more power to you, that you are going to try and believe that the set gear is pushing anyone over the edge (watching people still struggle with Kiga, Qwyji, and Teleiosaurus speaks otherwise) but the differences are minute, at best and non-existent without said sets together.

No, silly, the point is that it's better. If they were identical to purple gear but gave you a single extra stat point they'd be better. Nobody said "pushing over the edge", that's you trying real hard to cover your goof that there's nothing better than purple.

Maybe it's not better by much, but it's quantifiably better. It just is. The gear has more stuff. More bonuses. More good stuff. That's better. Your argument is basically "Nine isn't bigger than 8 because it's not bigger by much. Now 10, that's bigger." You gotta understand how silly that is.

markhawkman

the stupid part is that the specific details of what constitutes the best gear in the game is totally beside the point... the point was that becomes have weak stats....

nepht

Green is better than some Oranges. That Elder worm utility gear thingy u can get on Monster Island is stupid OP.

jaazaniah1

That triple stat utility piece given by the ghost of Michael Perkins is indeed nice.

nepht said:

Green is better than some Oranges. That Elder worm utility gear thingy u can get on Monster Island is stupid OP.

guyhumual

jaazaniah1 said:

That triple stat utility piece given by the ghost of Michael Perkins is indeed nice.

nepht said:

Green is better than some Oranges. That Elder worm utility gear thingy u can get on Monster Island is stupid OP.

Shhhhh, you guys, you looking to see it get nerfed

chaelk

the equivalent piece is the Loa green utility from VB.
oh and the Ghost reward piece now can come with dual stat mods in.
----------
why not to be able to buy powers and costumes.
Get the power armour one instead of buying the AT.
get the savage one instead of buying the at.

problem is you would have loose powers NOT an at, so unless you have FF slots, they aren't much use.

dreadjaws2

You guys think Black Talon is underpowered? You should have seen it at launch. All stats were at 10. It was not intentional, of course, and it was fixed later, but man, no wonder it was so cheap almost instantly in the AH.

I think that, other than RP, becomes' only use is to get some quick travel power change and/or switch from melee to ranged (or vice versa) in a moment. If they could be affected by gear they'd be much better. But still, for the use they have their price is preposterous. I wouldn't give them much use outside of alerts (even though they've been around for much longer than alerts), yet there's always someone who brings them to Events.

Well, I guess they're probably not very good at holding aggro, so maybe it's not such a bad idea.

markhawkman

sounds like BT has the same issue that the BITE devices had last blood moon, though I'm not optimistic that they've been fixed for this one.