Allow Players to Craft Their Own Gear

ghobepong

Now riddle me this, and riddle me that. But with all the mess going on CO it seems that Perfectworld has gone to the belfry to hang upside down, like a big daft bat.

So without further adieu? Now down to business.

So when it comes to Gear, which it might be Armadillo, Heroic, or even Legion for that matter. There was a time yes Heroic Games meant getting the gear. Yet, sad to say even THAT has it's shortfalls. But of course, now it comes to Lockboxes or even Onslaught which becomes boring after a while, seriously so routine.

So I went back looking into games like STO and figured out something.

Research and Development, you know have ingredients for goody old crafting recipes, followed by leveling in crafting skill, and Momma Miya that's a awesome yadda yadda gear for blah blah.

Point is, in other games it's done, and on CO it could be good too. Already we gather mods, fuse them and finally to top it off slot the item like it's a magical shard to ooo so jewel and enchant our gear.

Come on Cryptic lets liven up the crafting field some. Otherwise, it just goes to show really how bland this game has become. LOLZ!

Unknown

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spinnytop

Let's break a crafting system in an mmo down to it's most bare mechanics:

Kill stuff or gather from nodes -> receive materials -> combine materials into item

You do this currently to get your gear already, just replace the word materials with tokens, or currency. Just pretend the recognition vendor and questonite store are crafting tables and viola, you've got a crafting system. Once you really analyze crafting systems you realize they're just another loot delivery system that begins with defeating mobs and ends with an item in your inventory, and the occasional item to click on instead of fightin' stuff ( for example Worm Treasures... just think of it as "Gather 20 resource nodes to get 5 crafting materials" ).

Sure they could add something where you can go and farm random mobs for crafting mats to make blue quality level 40 gear or even heroic, but don't hold your breath for a crafting pathway to questonite gear, or anything gcr level. Also don't think about how that basically already exists in rng form via random drops from mobs, and how it already exists for heroic via gathering "crafting mats" (i.e. scr ) by doing daily quests or beating up big monsters.

When you start to think about crafting systems, you realize just how bland they really are and how little they add to a game ( especially when everything they effectively provide is already there ).

To clarify, I'm not poopin' on your idea and saying it shouldn't be done... I'm more pointing out that it's already there. If they wanna add another kill > drop > get system to the game, fine by me.

ps - the joker roleplay is cute.

markhawkman

Yeah, crafting is really only useful when there are things you can get from it that you can't get any other way.

championshewolf

Crafting is only useful when everything you craft isn't inferior to anything you can get in the world. IE most of crafting in WoW. Crafting also works as long as items are not infinite and need replacing every now and then, again something that doesn't work when most items can be infinitely repaired, never break and are permanently soul bound. Outside of potions there is little else that can be crafted that would support a crafting economy.

markhawkman

To be honest, Mods are a good substitute for a crafting system IMO.

Unknown

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spinnytop

gradii said:

Theyre functional but completely uninteresting and add almost no entertainment value as opposed to a true crafting system like CO used to have.​​

That crafting system didn't add anymore entertainment value than the recog system does. Kill stuff > get drop > get item. Same thing, different graphics.

darqaura2

gradii said:

markhawkman wrote: »

To be honest, Mods are a good substitute for a crafting system IMO.

Theyre functional but completely uninteresting and add almost no entertainment value as opposed to a true crafting system like CO used to have.​​

--------------

Sorry but no. The old crafting system simply wasn't interesting. It really didn't produce anything that made me want to run out and do crafting as a main event during my CO gaming sessions or even a side event. Whenever I saw a node I would just say "meh" and get back to missions.

orangeitis

I prefer STO's own take on crafting. You can take the lowest-of-the-low equipment and upgrade it all the way to endgame status along with crafting whichever tier equipment you want in between newbie and endgame stuff.

CO has none of that. Crafting endgame gear? Sure, I can accept that CO lets us do that. But that's just the tip of the iceberg as to what it COULD be.

championshewolf

orangeitis said:

I prefer STO's own take on crafting. You can take the lowest-of-the-low equipment and upgrade it all the way to endgame status along with crafting whichever tier equipment you want in between newbie and endgame stuff.

CO has none of that. Crafting endgame gear? Sure, I can accept that CO lets us do that. But that's just the tip of the iceberg as to what it COULD be.

STO's crafting system is pathetic to. It just happens to still have that mess that they've only had to rebuild what was it, 4 times that I even remember, and people still don't think it is adequate enough over there.

pantagruel01

What is a crafting system supposed to do that improves the game anyway? Customize your gear? You already can. Grind for mats? Yes, people love Rampage tokens so very much, and the main complaints about GCR farming are difficulty and limited sources, neither of which would be likely to be improved by a crafting system. In other games, crafting gear might help with cosmetics, but CO gear isn't visible anyway. The only gear that's ever existed that might have been worth the trouble to upgrade was power replacers, as they tended to be unique and some of them were very low level, but the power replacer system has been hated by developers pretty much since launch, probably because it was written to be unmaintainable.

Unknown

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spinnytop

gradii said:

Crafting adds a lot to a game. I guess it's not something that people who primarily play this one can understand.​​

I've played many other games with crafting systems, and they were all boring and stupid. How did you ever get it into your precious little head that everyone who disagrees with you plays/has played only CO? Adorable. I wonder how hard you would freak out if you realized that someone who disagrees with you plays the same games you do.

darqaura2

gradii said:

Crafting adds a lot to a game. I guess it's not something that people who primarily play this one can understand.​​

In nearly every game I've played it's added **** all. Especially for games where raiding drops the best gear. Which is most mmos.

championshewolf

darqaura2 said:

gradii said:

Crafting adds a lot to a game. I guess it's not something that people who primarily play this one can understand.​​

In nearly every game I've played it's added **** all. Especially for games where raiding drops the best gear. Which is most mmos.

Raiding? You mean heroic dungeons, even basic dungeons. Hell, again I point to WoW, the only viable crafting post endgame is potions, unless you want a cosmetic mount from one of the other crafts. The only reason to take up a craft, and you best be looking at engineering, is for personal use for that slight edge in PvP.

And let's not forget that by the time you would be able to craft that viable gear, most likely you've already leveled beyond it and collected multiple pieces of gear that are far better for you to begin with. And this will never be fixed while games continue to focus on the theme park game play style, crafting will always be mediocre compared to basic leveling gear.

Both STO and Neverwinter's crafting by the time you are able to gather enough mats or level up your crafters (since they use facebook style crafting) to produce something viable for you when you were that level, you've already found something in a quest or gained multiple levels since then that they aren't even viable to sell. And the kicker being, most crafting systems make the viable gear bind on pickup now, so it's not even worth crafting to sell.

Crafting died a long time ago, and this is coming from the chick that use to do nothing but mine and sit at Brit forge repairing gear for people all damn day way back in the early days of UO, a past time I loved for the social aspect of it all. The advent of soul binding, infinitely repairable gear, and the inability to trade items resulted in the death of one of the most social aspects of MMOs.

pantagruel01

gradii said:

Crafting adds a lot to a game.

Explain what it adds. It's pretty significant in a game where the in-game economy is important and items are consumable (e.g. EvE Online), but that really doesn't describe CO.

championshewolf

pantagruel01 said:

gradii said:

Crafting adds a lot to a game.

Explain what it adds. It's pretty significant in a game where the in-game economy is important and items are consumable (e.g. EvE Online), but that really doesn't describe CO.

Even in EVE, as it stands, it is hard to say they have a true crafting economy since beyond death and destruction replacing things isn't exactly hard to do or just keeping it in good repair. The big money of course is time investment in getting that which ended up translating into real world dollars for the longest time.

ghobepong

spinnytop said:

Let's break a crafting system in an mmo down to it's most bare mechanics:

Kill stuff or gather from nodes -> receive materials -> combine materials into item

You do this currently to get your gear already, just replace the word materials with tokens, or currency. Just pretend the recognition vendor and questonite store are crafting tables and viola, you've got a crafting system. Once you really analyze crafting systems you realize they're just another loot delivery system that begins with defeating mobs and ends with an item in your inventory, and the occasional item to click on instead of fightin' stuff ( for example Worm Treasures... just think of it as "Gather 20 resource nodes to get 5 crafting materials" ).

Sure they could add something where you can go and farm random mobs for crafting mats to make blue quality level 40 gear or even heroic, but don't hold your breath for a crafting pathway to questonite gear, or anything gcr level. Also don't think about how that basically already exists in rng form via random drops from mobs, and how it already exists for heroic via gathering "crafting mats" (i.e. scr ) by doing daily quests or beating up big monsters.

When you start to think about crafting systems, you realize just how bland they really are and how little they add to a game ( especially when everything they effectively provide is already there ).

To clarify, I'm not poopin' on your idea and saying it shouldn't be done... I'm more pointing out that it's already there. If they wanna add another kill > drop > get system to the game, fine by me.

ps - the joker roleplay is cute.

Basically while the argument does have merit there is flaw to it also. Already the best gear originally to try to push for was Heroic Gear. This could be earned by gaining points through the Hero Games.

YET; this became one sided and quickly fell apart.

PUNCHLINE DELIVERED!

Sorry I couldn't help myself....

Of course yes there is Legion Gear that could be acquired, YET again we're talking about opening Lock Boxes to get it. Actually maybe could get it through Drifter store not sure. Then there is the Onslaught Events that could also help in acquire Onslaught gear to use in your hero's build.

So yes there are options, yet the thing to note how quickly bland it becomes. In other games like STO R&D has allowed so that the gear you craft can be further improved on for quality of gear or consoles, etc.

Now yes Perfectworld needs to make money and there are ways around this. But right now the only thing that seems to help is crafting by fusing mods, through your specialty level, and also a Catalyst to allow increasing the chances to make such an item.

Followed by Mod where the mods are slotted into gear with the hope that the mod and gear both will survive the process.

Not sure, but if that means your gear gets screwed over and lost that you worked so hard to get out of a Lock Box? Auction House, or even using your tokens for that matter?

Yeah, I think a lot of players would be VERY upset and want to ask for a refund.

ghobepong

championshewolf said:

Crafting is only useful when everything you craft isn't inferior to anything you can get in the world. IE most of crafting in WoW. Crafting also works as long as items are not infinite and need replacing every now and then, again something that doesn't work when most items can be infinitely repaired, never break and are permanently soul bound. Outside of potions there is little else that can be crafted that would support a crafting economy.

Funny you should mention that because crafting in STO which for all intensive purposes IS ALSO a Perfectworld game allows for the fact that in crafting players can take crafted items, put them up on auction and sell it to make ECs or Energy Credits. And while items do need repair, IT DOES also allow a means Perfectworld through kits toward R&D allow them to make money, be repaired easily through Replicators so again players can "craft" kits for repair themselves.

WAIT THAT MEANS!

There is an Economy, It DOES already exist in a Perfectworld game, AND they can make money.

DEBUNKED!

championshewolf

ghobepong said:

championshewolf said:

Crafting is only useful when everything you craft isn't inferior to anything you can get in the world. IE most of crafting in WoW. Crafting also works as long as items are not infinite and need replacing every now and then, again something that doesn't work when most items can be infinitely repaired, never break and are permanently soul bound. Outside of potions there is little else that can be crafted that would support a crafting economy.

Funny you should mention that because crafting in STO which for all intensive purposes IS ALSO a Perfectworld game allows for the fact that in crafting players can take crafted items, put them up on auction and sell it to make ECs or Energy Credits. And while items do need repair, IT DOES also allow a means Perfectworld through kits toward R&D allow them to make money, be repaired easily through Replicators so again players can "craft" kits for repair themselves.

WAIT THAT MEANS!

There is an Economy, It DOES already exist in a Perfectworld game, AND they can make money.

DEBUNKED!

Actually it's not debunked since you missed the key factor, it's inferior to everything else you can get. Crafting in STO is the worst its ever been since it went to the facebook measure and once again, is 100% inferior to anything you can actually get from normal questing or that reputation grind they have in game. In order for something to be debunked you have to actually have to be able to gain a steady income that actually covers the cost of time and materials to gather said item and allow you to also make a profit. Crafting in STO not only doesn't do that, but attempting to make money off STO crafting is a guaranteed net loss every time. You are better off just selling the materials and forgetting the crafting in general. The only reason to craft is for that one uber item you might need but beyond that a complete waste of time.

So yea, try again.

ghobepong

championshewolf said:

ghobepong said:

championshewolf said:

Crafting is only useful when everything you craft isn't inferior to anything you can get in the world. IE most of crafting in WoW. Crafting also works as long as items are not infinite and need replacing every now and then, again something that doesn't work when most items can be infinitely repaired, never break and are permanently soul bound. Outside of potions there is little else that can be crafted that would support a crafting economy.

Funny you should mention that because crafting in STO which for all intensive purposes IS ALSO a Perfectworld game allows for the fact that in crafting players can take crafted items, put them up on auction and sell it to make ECs or Energy Credits. And while items do need repair, IT DOES also allow a means Perfectworld through kits toward R&D allow them to make money, be repaired easily through Replicators so again players can "craft" kits for repair themselves.

WAIT THAT MEANS!

There is an Economy, It DOES already exist in a Perfectworld game, AND they can make money.

DEBUNKED!

Actually it's not debunked since you missed the key factor, it's inferior to everything else you can get. Crafting in STO is the worst its ever been since it went to the facebook measure and once again, is 100% inferior to anything you can actually get from normal questing or that reputation grind they have in game. In order for something to be debunked you have to actually have to be able to gain a steady income that actually covers the cost of time and materials to gather said item and allow you to also make a profit. Crafting in STO not only doesn't do that, but attempting to make money off STO crafting is a guaranteed net loss every time. You are better off just selling the materials and forgetting the crafting in general. The only reason to craft is for that one uber item you might need but beyond that a complete waste of time.

So yea, try again.

Actually that's where your flawed on so many levels.

1: You argue that Crafting in STO is the worst ever.

Vs: Fusing and slotting items into gear as a form of Crafting in CO.

In STO players can craft or even improve gear based on their crafting skill.

Something that CO lacks here. I think folks yes are getting tired of the Shiya meets WoW crafting system. So 2010.

On STO, you have Consoles, Equipment, heck even gear itself. So yeah......way better than CO.

Debunked!

2: You say that STO crafting loses money.

Actually wrong again, while the options are there, and of course the ingredients can be tedious, there are options in Z Store to purchase R&D equipment that allow the chances for success very similar to the CO fuse and mod system.

Again Debunked!

3: Crafting is a waste of time.

You know there is no need to argue against that because that shows laziness on a person like yourself when it comes to debating.

DEBUNKED!

You apparently must be someone that doesn't know squat about STO and thought to make yourself appear smarter by coming on here to talk about it.

Debunked!

spinnytop

ghobepong said:

Basically while the argument does have merit there is flaw to it also. Already the best gear originally to try to push for was Heroic Gear. This could be earned by gaining points through the Hero Games.

YET; this became one sided and quickly fell apart.

PUNCHLINE DELIVERED!

Sorry I couldn't help myself....

Heroic gear was also available via SCR. Not sure what you thought the punchline or the setup there was, just looked like you were derailing your own topic.

ghobepong said:

Of course yes there is Legion Gear that could be acquired, YET again we're talking about opening Lock Boxes to get it. Actually maybe could get it through Drifter store not sure. Then there is the Onslaught Events that could also help in acquire Onslaught gear to use in your hero's build.

So yes there are options, yet the thing to note how quickly bland it becomes. In other games like STO R&D has allowed so that the gear you craft can be further improved on for quality of gear or consoles, etc.

More options than the ones you listed. If those are the only ones you know about then I would see why you think the process of getting gear is bland. Fact is right now you can do a variety of activities to get your stuff. It seems that a crafting system that requires you to bounce around a zone looting nodes, or going somewhere to beat up the same group of mobs over and over would actually be a step backward from what we have now in terms of making the game more interesting to play.

ghobepong said:

Now yes Perfectworld needs to make money and there are ways around this. But right now the only thing that seems to help is crafting by fusing mods, through your specialty level, and also a Catalyst to allow increasing the chances to make such an item.

Followed by Mod where the mods are slotted into gear with the hope that the mod and gear both will survive the process.

Not sure, but if that means your gear gets screwed over and lost that you worked so hard to get out of a Lock Box? Auction House, or even using your tokens for that matter?

Yeah, I think a lot of players would be VERY upset and want to ask for a refund.

Your gear won't break while fusing mods, and if the fuse fails you only lose 1 mod of the 5 you were fusing so at worst you would end up with 4 mods of the highest level you had to begin with. Nobody is going to be asking for a refund. Thinking you might be taking the Joker RP too far here... you seem to be imagining things that don't actually exist in the game and commenting on them as if they exist and are causing big problems. I guess I'm Batman then.

championshewolf

ghobepong said:

championshewolf said:

ghobepong said:

championshewolf said:

Crafting is only useful when everything you craft isn't inferior to anything you can get in the world. IE most of crafting in WoW. Crafting also works as long as items are not infinite and need replacing every now and then, again something that doesn't work when most items can be infinitely repaired, never break and are permanently soul bound. Outside of potions there is little else that can be crafted that would support a crafting economy.

Funny you should mention that because crafting in STO which for all intensive purposes IS ALSO a Perfectworld game allows for the fact that in crafting players can take crafted items, put them up on auction and sell it to make ECs or Energy Credits. And while items do need repair, IT DOES also allow a means Perfectworld through kits toward R&D allow them to make money, be repaired easily through Replicators so again players can "craft" kits for repair themselves.

WAIT THAT MEANS!

There is an Economy, It DOES already exist in a Perfectworld game, AND they can make money.

DEBUNKED!

Actually it's not debunked since you missed the key factor, it's inferior to everything else you can get. Crafting in STO is the worst its ever been since it went to the facebook measure and once again, is 100% inferior to anything you can actually get from normal questing or that reputation grind they have in game. In order for something to be debunked you have to actually have to be able to gain a steady income that actually covers the cost of time and materials to gather said item and allow you to also make a profit. Crafting in STO not only doesn't do that, but attempting to make money off STO crafting is a guaranteed net loss every time. You are better off just selling the materials and forgetting the crafting in general. The only reason to craft is for that one uber item you might need but beyond that a complete waste of time.

So yea, try again.

Actually that's where your flawed on so many levels.

1: You argue that Crafting in STO is the worst ever.

Vs: Fusing and slotting items into gear as a form of Crafting in CO.

In STO players can craft or even improve gear based on their crafting skill.

Something that CO lacks here. I think folks yes are getting tired of the Shiya meets WoW crafting system. So 2010.

On STO, you have Consoles, Equipment, heck even gear itself. So yeah......way better than CO.

Debunked!

2: You say that STO crafting loses money.

Actually wrong again, while the options are there, and of course the ingredients can be tedious, there are options in Z Store to purchase R&D equipment that allow the chances for success very similar to the CO fuse and mod system.

Again Debunked!

3: Crafting is a waste of time.

You know there is no need to argue against that because that shows laziness on a person like yourself when it comes to debating.

DEBUNKED!

You apparently must be someone that doesn't know squat about STO and thought to make yourself appear smarter by coming on here to talk about it.

Debunked!

I am still waiting for you to debunk anything yet you haven't. You keep proving the point. Gear is gear, changing the name doesn't change the fact. A console is just another fancy name for gear, so really you are trying to calla green apple a different kind of apple at this point. So failed debunk, again.

Having to spend real life currency to make a profit is not making a profit and in fact is not a debunk but a continued attempt at demonstrating your own ignorance of crafting. It is not only tedious to get crafting materials, it is costly, as what you can craft will never allow you to break even on the market place in game. So again, failed debunking.

If you can't disprove waste of time, even when your own argument demonstrates it's a waste of time since you have to use real money to actually make it pseudo viable, and even then it's not viable, it's not debunked.

Actually I beta'd STO and I played every now and then the more things change the more they stay the same. In fact I had the uber elite beta tag title because I was one of the ones chosen to be in the permanent beta instead of the phased beta. You are the only one making outlandish claims and are the only one trying to claim that STO's crafting is actually good when in the same breath you state it's not by APOLOGIZING for how **** it is.

Upgrading your personal gear is NOT CRAFTING and is the same **** as upgrading mods in Champions. You aren't selling this gear for a profit. And if all you are doing is making stuff for yourself then you aren't crafting. You are only doing a system that is forced on you in order to have an item of value, which probably requires you to do specific dungeons and events to get required material anyways, and the value of said item is questionable since you can find, most of the time, much better items just by playing the game and doing quests and of course through the reputation grind system, which makes crafting worthless. It's another gate, as I can't sit in ESD and be the crafter that makes the stuff for people and still enjoy my time with it, I am forced to play other parts of the game that I might not want to in order to make "crafting" enjoyable and the crafting is so stupidly time gated that you can't even begin to enjoy the low level crap gear it provides until several months later.

It's not crafting not in the slightest.