Eido Tactics - What To Try Next

kamokami

Starting this thread to get a list of tactics to try during Eido attempts. Track what we tried, what worked, and what didn't work. I will put the details of the tactics and their status into the OP and the post after.

Tactic:
1. Having 3 DPS Captains that wear different colored outfits/flags with each Captain going to a different Green orb. The rest of the DPS players are divided up between Captains to attack whichever orb their Captain is attacking.
( thanks @lezard21 )
- status: done, but not since the latest changes....we should try it again
- what was better: this worked really well at distributing DPS and we killed more Greens as a result
- what was worse: not enough people were willing to change their costumes to bright colors (so they can be easily followed by the larger grp). It also took a while to organize.

3. Tanking him near the center so that he'll be near a denser set of possible spawn locations...about where the pink looking thing is on this map: LINK
- status: done
- what was better: more Green spawns that were closer together and closer to boss
- what was worse: Reds spawned on top of boss, Green spawns seemed more random than before

3. Having ranged DPS players spread out at their maximum range to reduce the time it takes to start damaging Greens
- status: done
- what was better: it was ok...but didn't seem to make much difference. Could keep trying
- what was worse: nothing really as there's no point in crowding around Eido anyways

4. Grouping DPS teams assigned to Left, Middle, or Right Greens based on shared damage types and debuffs
( thanks @pantagruel01 & @doctorevilface )
- status: done
- whats was better: this was excellent, we could reliably take out 2 out of 3 orbs.
- what was worse: takes a bit of time to set up, but will take less time as we do it more

5. Killing 2 of the red Shadow Crystals. Stun 2 reds that are closest to each other, and paralyze the 3rd. ( thanks @behemothking#9246 & @naciiito )
- status: done
- what was better: this was AWESOME! We should do it every time moving fwd. CCer will need a strong stun and Tanks and Healers will need to move with the DPS group. In trying this more we found it best to have the DPS group follow the CCer to the 2 reds frist and then break off and go to the boss while the CCer paralyzed the 3rd orb.
- what was worse: takes a bit more coordination, but can be overcome with practice

6. Getting everyone, or a lot of people, to slot in their Draysha Gas Pistol devices to spray the group and keep the Draysha-ed constantly
- status: done-ish, more people have draysha gas pistol but not everyone.
- what was better: hard to tell, but it did seem like it pushed runs that were going relatively well over edge into great runs. Don't think this alone would save a bad run though.
- what was worse: nothing was worse heh. The impact of this is diminished if a lot of people die to geysers

7. Take Eido into the top left corner on this map to minimize possible spawn points for Green orbs: MAP LINK
- status: done
- what was better: this went really well in terms of orb placement. It probably results in the best orb placement so far.
- what was worse: a lot more people die to geysers because everyone's packed in and there are fewer places to run. Having said that, I think with practice the deaths to geysers can be diminished greatly....making this the best spot over time.


MUST HAVE TACTICS for future runs: (this section is about stuff we've tried repeatedly that's worked well)
1. Organize at least 2 teams in teamup based on damage type and assign them to LEFT and RIGHT Greens. The assigned teams should be led by high DPS players. Everyone else is MIDDLE. This is an evolved version of tactic 4. It's working very very well....both at splitting up damage dealt among crystals and at maxing it out due to everyone on a given team debuffing for everyone else.

***

2. Decide ahead of time how Reds will be dealt with. This is based on various versions of tactic 5. Which version will be best will be based on who's there and what the particular stregnths / weaknesses will be of the assembled group.
a) Kill ALL Reds.
- Requirements:
- - CC: requires 1 CCer with a 12+ second ranged stun & a 10+ second AoE stun on tap. Or 2 CCers with 10+ second stuns.
- - Healers: 3 healers minimum
- - Who is under most pressure: CCer
- - When to do it: when you have 2 CCers or just one who is really on it and has both an aoe tap stun and a ranged stun. Minimizes pressure on healers and DPS to get things right. But also deals mnimal to no damage to Eido during the Red phase.

b) Kill 2 Reds closest to each other. Leave last 1 alone
- Requirements:
- - CC: can spam 10+ second stuns.
- - Healers: 3 healers minimum
- - Who is under most pressure: DPS
- - When to do it: this tactic takes some pressure off the CCer and moves it over to the DPS, who have to pay attention to callouts and spawns. The main difficulty here is knowing which 2 orbs to attack and which one to leave alone. To make that easier, someone needs to provide direction in the course of the fight with shouts like, "THIS ORB" or "Back to Eido!" to direct the DPS. (thanks @carrionbaggage and @pwestolemyname for the idea regarding callouts). The rest of the DPS should follow this person and ideally target them to more quickly go after the correct Red...here's a bind to help: /bind 0 target playerName (thanks @pwestolemyname and @spinnytop for the idea)

c) Kill 1 Red closest to Eido. Leave other 2 alone
- Requirements:
- - CC: can spam 10+ second stuns.
- - Healers: 4 healers minimum
- - Who is under most pressure: Healers
- - When to do it: this tactic puts more pressure on the healers, do it when you feel like you have 4 great AoE healers that can keep everyone alive through the aura that deals damage to the group during red orb phase. When it works, this is a great tactic because the DPS can deal a significant amount of damage to Eido during this phase. Assuming that they stay alive and don't have to block to lose form stacks.

d) Kill no Reds. Leave all 3 alone
- Requirements:
- - CC: has two 50 second paralyzes. This will be reduced down to 30 secs vs the Reds, which is how long they are up for.
- - Healers: 5 healers minimum
- - Who is under most pressure: Healers
- - When to do it: this is how we used to do Eido before we tried killing Reds. But we only did it with 3 Healers and a lot of DPS died. The result was that we could not kill the Greens he would summon afterwards. This is still a viable tactic, but only if the Healers can actually guarantee everyone staying alive. Given the target cap of 5 on aoe heals and since we usually fill the zone during an Eido run - we need a minimum of 5 healers for this tactic to be considered instead of the others above. This does mean that if 2 of those healers have strong CC abilities that we may not need a dedicated CCer for this kind of run.

***

3. *Not* trying to kill all 3 Greens, unless we get a great spawn. This takes deliberate placement of Eido by the main tank, but is really crucial for runs where we don't have overwhelming DPS that can just steamroll through mistakes. We do not need to kill all 3 Greens. We do need to GUARANTEE that we get 2/3 Greens. So:
a) kill 2 Greens and then block so the 3rd blowing up doesn't kill you. It's not a big deal if 1 blows up...we'll break even on Eido's heal vs the dmg we deal him and wait until we get a good spawn.
b) wait until we get a good spawn and only then try to go for all 3. A good spawn is when 2 Greens are close enough to each other that AoEs will kill both at the same time.
c) have someone who can call it when the spawn is good vs not, until people get used to it and don't need the shouts in zone.

***

4. Keybinds with directions for the fight. These are vital especially for players who have done less than 5 runs with the new changes. Also good to let people know what's going on if they are joining in the middle of the fight as opposed at the start.
a) /bind numpad4 yell "Geysers coming. Spread out!"
b) /bind numpad5 yell "Good Green spawn. Kill them all!"
c) /bind numpad6 yell "Bad Green spawn. Kill 2 then Block!"
- the 3 binds above are the most important ones....especially spamming the geyser warning makes a big difference -
d) /bind numpad7 yell "PORTALS!"
e) /bind numpad8 say "ATTACK THIS RED"
- the bind above is in local chat and should be said by the person leading the DPS towards the correct Red to attack as they run towards it -
f) /bind numpad9 yell "back to Eido!"
- the bind above should be used to let the DPS know when to stop attacking Reds and get back to Eido -
g) /bind f9 yell "Kill ALL Reds"
h) /bind f10 yell "Kill 2 Reds closest to each other. Leave last 1 alone. Move with the group. If you are by yourself, you are doing it wrong"
i) /bind f11 yell "Kill 1 Red closest to Eido. Leave other 2 alone. Move with the group. If you are by yourself, you are doing it wrong"
j) /bind f12 yell "Do NOT attack Reds. Focus on Eido"
- depending on which tactic is being employed, direct the group with one of the 4 binds above right as Eido is spawning the Reds -

***

5. When announcing the run, remind people about:
a) "Do NOT step forward when you go up to Eido's chamber or you will trigger the countdown and leave less time for organization of teams and gathering of required roles."
- we've had plenty of runs where we beat him under the 10 minute mark so this can make a big difference -
b) "zoom out so you can see DPS check targets"
c) "keep your travel powers on so you can move with the group, avoid geysers, and die less"
d) "save AOs and Ultimates for Greens"

---

.....please post your ideas of what we should try and also what we've already tried.

kamokami

(reserved space to list ideas that have been tried and ones we want to try)

doctorevilface

It would be helpful if we could evenly distribute DPS between the green crystals, like establish dedicated teams to handle each one.

Might be impractical in a public Eido run though, since you have folks jumping in halfway through the fight, so you can't coordinate beforehand...

omnilord

I know the spawning location of the orbs are dependent on Eido's location. With this strategy, did it seem like the group was better able to predict where the orbs were going to spawn? Or was it still somewhat sporadic, like I've sometimes noticed when he's dragged to one side of the platform?

qawsada

To be fairly honest, we could try to organize +25 players with GCR gears. Eido isn't so much of a farming boss, but an actual raid that require every member of the raid to be in their top shape with the mind set of KILLING Eido, not farming him. This would mean that nobody should be bringing an alt that need GCR/SCR or all that crap, or expect to be carried/leech. Of course, this is going to be impossible to set up a group like this due to timezone/players bringing whatever/trolls/etc.

Alternately, I would like to see how an all Ranged DPS go, but mostly to spread out when the geyser happen. I notice that the geyser killing dps tend to make the check worse off due to losing stack, or not being revived on time.

pantagruel01

Syncing up characters would certainly help -- people with common debuffs together, for example. MV-rank targets don't have debuff caps (though a lot of debuffs are limited to 3 stacks) so putting the slashing people together and the crushing people together would be significant.

kamokami

qawsada said:

To be fairly honest, we could try to organize +25 players with GCR gears. Eido isn't so much of a farming boss, but an actual raid that require every member of the raid to be in their top shape with the mind set of KILLING Eido, not farming him. This would mean that nobody should be bringing an alt that need GCR/SCR or all that crap, or expect to be carried/leech.

Yup this a good point. Anyone coming to Eido should not do it for the GCR...much easier and more assured sources for that. Bring your absolute best to the fight and expect it to be very hard. Don't come for an easy chill time because you won't have it. If you show up, do it to kill him. That's the only real reward at the moment.

qawsada said:

Alternately, I would like to see how an all Ranged DPS go, but mostly to spread out when the geyser happen. I notice that the geyser killing dps tend to make the check worse off due to losing stack, or not being revived on time.

I think generally speaking everyone should be as spread out as possible throughout the whole fight. We're used to stacking up due to how it worked before but now we need to try out the opposite. During Reds, sure, stack up and get those heals....but otherwise spread out as much as your range allows imo.

doctorevilface said:

It would be helpful if we could evenly distribute DPS between the green crystals, like establish dedicated teams to handle each one.

pantagruel01 said:

Syncing up characters would certainly help -- people with common debuffs together, for example. MV-rank targets don't have debuff caps (though a lot of debuffs are limited to 3 stacks) so putting the slashing people together and the crushing people together would be significant.

Great ideas! Added to the OP for stuff to try.

roughbearmattach

A group that heavily features ranged DPS with 100' ranged attacks should have a much better time destroying green orbs, particularly if they reserve AOs, ultimates, boosts, etc., for green orbs.

pantagruel01

So, any lessons to be learned from success on Sunday? Other than "which players/characters are there matters", which isn't really news.

spinnytop

Well, in regards to ranged being spread out that was mentioned before that fight so I tried it. I didn't really feel that it made me any more capable in getting the greens than I was before. There's a chance after all that I spread out to the left, and all the greens spawn to the right, so it's actually better to maintain a more central location so I'm equal distance to wherever they're gonna randomly appear.

nacito

new tactic:
stun+dps a single red during last phase (where 3 red spawns)​​

aiqa

Did anyone ever notice any rules about green orb spawn locations yet? Like with Medusa she always spawns them in a pretty fixed location. Is there something like 2 behind, 1 in front for Eido?

omnilord

I haven't noticed a set pattern. Then again, I've never just observed the fight or been to that many since the over-tuning.

My impression was that Eido can spawn them in any of a few locations in a certain range of him. I think the strategy of dragging him close to the edge was to try to limit the area of where the orbs could spawn.

pantagruel01

It seems random. Based on the number of instances in the last attempt where eido killed the dps who were trying to kill the green, might be best to pick a location where he can be pointed in a direction where there are no known spawn points.

doctorevilface

If we could get Eido facing a wall or a corner, the crystals would have to spawn behind him, narrowing the possible places they could pop up at.

From there, the ranged DPS'ers could spread out to three different angles: left, right, and center, allowing us to cover as much ground as possible.

...If that makes sense?

sergeantmahoff1

After looking at one of our winning Eidolon fights where we barely managed to get the green orbs perfectly each time, 58% of the DPS were doing above 2k damage. 15 out of 26 DPS to be precise. We had one AoPM, one AoAC and one AoRP with one CCer and three healers and one tank.

What this means to me is that the DPS roles may need more regulation to beat him. We can't just have anyone in DPS role, 60% of them have to be able to parse for 2k+ DPS verse him, otherwise the run's more than likely a dud. Organizing that is a little hard to do I know, but we did it once didn't we?

pantagruel01

Of course, the dps parse is going to vary with the success of the run -- if greens are exploding, everyone's dps goes down because of the explosions (and if we had 26 dps, there must have been someone who left and was replaced).

sergeantmahoff1

Actually, one person did leave and was replaced in the winning parse, but that was an offtank.

kamokami

naciiito said:

new tactic:

stun+dps a single red during last phase (where 3 red spawns)​​

We tried this and it worked great! Adding it to the OP......imo we should do this moving fwd.

We also grouped DPS teams based on dmg type and that went well too.

Another tactic I'd throw in si for everyone to get draysha spray and keep teh group draysha-ed at all times.

darqaura2

kamokami said:

naciiito said:

new tactic:

stun+dps a single red during last phase (where 3 red spawns)​​

We tried this and it worked great! Adding it to the OP......imo we should do this moving fwd.

We also grouped DPS teams based on dmg type and that went well too.

Another tactic I'd throw in si for everyone to get draysha spray and keep teh group draysha-ed at all times.

Remind me again how you get draysha

kamokami

darqaura2 said:

Remind me again how you get draysha

Look for "Draysha Gas Pistol" on the AH. Drifter has it as well.

spinnytop

Well whatever we did today worked great!

kamokami

spinnytop said:

Well whatever we did today worked great!

Video of what we did today coming soon. In the meantime it's worth noting Edio's position on the map: (also added to guide in my sig)

kamokami

Here's the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OplVcB9V5AI

pantagruel01

Some very convenient green spawns there.

kamokami

pantagruel01 said:

Some very convenient green spawns there.

Yes I think that placement helps a lot. And great CCing by @carrionbaggage

pantagruel01

While we have tended to only go for the offensive auras, it might be worthwhile to have an AoRP in these fights to cut down on cascading fails from green explosions. In tanking/pulling, something I noticed: you have to get to a minimum distance before Eido will follow you about, so if you start out moderately close to your desired end position you may not be able to get him to follow far enough. I had better luck with tanking when I started in building threat a fairly significant distance from where I wanted him to wind up.

warcanch

I was having difficulty as a CCer on targeting the Red Orbs (Shadow Crystal) with the current macro. Often, I'd target a farther orb and spamming the macro wouldn't leave it.

Ultimately, I found using this bind worked: /bind f1 "target_enemy_near". This made sure I was targeting the nearest orb or portal. It didn't work always on portals as a guardian sometimes spawned. But, it was very useful on the green and red orbs.​​

spinnytop

That's actually just a keybind you can set in your options menu o3o

pwestolemyname

Just a note, in the 10-minute run we did on Sunday where I (aka Vice) CCed. During the 3-Red orb spawns, I gave up on trying to stun the one everyone was killing. We did have a lot of DPS, so it seemed more useful to get the other two first, rather than waste time getting to the one that was going to die in seconds. I know Eido got a bit of healing out of it, but we still beat him in 10 minutes, so it couldn't have been too much.

I would not recommend this as an every-time thing, but I just wanted to point that out.

Also, if we have a squishy CCer (mine is not particularly squishy), it would be a good idea to have a healer assigned to watch out for her while she is CCing the Reds. If the two a very far away, a squishy could easily die before making it back to the heal huddle.

Oh, one other CCer thought. There were several times I was delayed a few seconds on the red spawn trying to figure out where the DPS is going. One DPS could be designated Red Leader, who chooses which Red to hit and everyone follows that person. Then the CCer could bind a target bind on that player and use the Assist option on Targeting to quickly hit that red with a Stun.

spinnytop

pwestolemyname said:

Oh, one other CCer thought. There were several times I was delayed a few seconds on the red spawn trying to figure out where the DPS is going. One DPS could be designated Red Leader, who chooses which Red to hit and everyone follows that person. Then the CCer could bind a target bind on that player and use the Assist option on Targeting to quickly hit that red with a Stun.

I like that idea for dps as well. Then everyone can just make a bind to target Red Leader so we ensure we all attack the same orb when two of them look about equal distance away.

kamokami

pwestolemyname said:

Just a note, in the 10-minute run we did on Sunday where I (aka Vice) CCed. During the 3-Red orb spawns, I gave up on trying to stun the one everyone was killing. We did have a lot of DPS, so it seemed more useful to get the other two first, rather than waste time getting to the one that was going to die in seconds. I know Eido got a bit of healing out of it, but we still beat him in 10 minutes, so it couldn't have been too much.

Great job thinking on your feet there! Especially if the DPS or Tank can stun the first Red, CCer might not have to worry about it at all.

pwestolemyname said:

Also, if we have a squishy CCer (mine is not particularly squishy), it would be a good idea to have a healer assigned to watch out for her while she is CCing the Reds. If the two a very far away, a squishy could easily die before making it back to the heal huddle.

Hopefully a squishy CCer can mitigate the issue somewhat as well by either having a self rez, r3 travel, or a lunge.

pwestolemyname said:

Oh, one other CCer thought. There were several times I was delayed a few seconds on the red spawn trying to figure out where the DPS is going. One DPS could be designated Red Leader, who chooses which Red to hit and everyone follows that person. Then the CCer could bind a target bind on that player and use the Assist option on Targeting to quickly hit that red with a Stun.

Awesome, added having someone call out which Orb to go after to the OP.

kamokami

added "must have" tactics to use in every Eido run to the OP. These include:

1. Organize at least 2 teams in teamup based on damage type and assign them to LEFT and RIGHT Greens.
2. Decide ahead of time how Reds will be dealt with. Kill all reds, 2 reds, 1 red, or no reds.
3. Not trying to kill all 3 Greens, unless we get a great spawn.
4. Keybinds with directions for the fight.
5. When announcing the run, remind people about a few things like not walking fwd when they get up to his chamber.

For details on each tactic, see the OP.

spinnytop

Having someone call out which orb to go after won't really work... it'd basically be someone saying "go after that one!" and people being like which one? A hard system of "Target this person, and assist on their target" would be more effective.

kamokami

spinnytop said:

Having someone call out which orb to go after won't really work... it'd basically be someone saying "go after that one!" and people being like which one?

It has worked at drawing enough of a crowd that it's clear where to go...for the most part. This person usually calls out several times as they are running towards the orb to trigger the chat bubble above their head and guide the crowd.

spinnytop said:

A hard system of "Target this person, and assist on their target" would be more effective.

It would be yes, but I think the callouts are still needed for anyone who didn't use the bind or anyone who shows up later on in the fight. Added to the OP

The bind in question would be:
/bind 0 "target playerName $$ assist"
(can use a different key instead of 0)

Or if you go to Options > Controls > and then make sure your "Assist Target on Attack" is set to "On" then you can just target the player who is the Red Leader and you'll automatically attack the Red they are going after. In that case, use this bind to easily target the player:
/bind 0 target playerName

spinnytop

Using both is fine, so long as you push the assist method since it's the fastest and most precise.

monaahiru

My personal Tips on doing Eido. I uses any power that won't stop movement while charge/maintain while geysers predicted on ether Healer or DPS. Geyser warning.

avianos

I have to say, the tactic of making 2 damage groups for left and right orbs and everyone else for the middle is pretty darn genius

It's such a simply tactic but it works so good and promotes Jolly co-operation, we may not even need different coloured coded orbs with this strategy​​

doctorevilface

avianos said:

I have to say, the tactic of making 2 damage groups for left and right orbs and everyone else for the middle is pretty darn genius



It's such a simply tactic but it works so good and promotes Jolly co-operation, we may not even need different coloured coded orbs with this strategy​​

Admittedly, it's a bit difficult to gage what's where based on your's and Eido's position/Orb spawn location. I've had to double check who's on what orb and adjust accordingly a number of times. But otherwise, it really is a good tactic that's helped keep us on a nice winning streak these past months.

I'd say while coloring the orbs differently isn't necessary, I think it would still be helpful so folks know exactly which orb they need to focus on as soon as they appear. You can tell people to hit the left orb, but "left" isn't as clear when you factor in camera angles and positioning. At least for me, anyway. :P

kamokami

doctorevilface said:

Admittedly, it's a bit difficult to gage what's where based on your's and Eido's position/Orb spawn location. I've had to double check who's on what orb and adjust accordingly a number of times. But otherwise, it really is a good tactic that's helped keep us on a nice winning streak these past months.

I'd say while coloring the orbs differently isn't necessary, I think it would still be helpful so folks know exactly which orb they need to focus on as soon as they appear. You can tell people to hit the left orb, but "left" isn't as clear when you factor in camera angles and positioning. At least for me, anyway. :P

We'll clarify better in future announcements. But since you're reading this now...."left" means *your* left. So if Eido's position changes and you face a different direction as a result....along with the rest of the DPS, then your left has changed as well.

spinnytop

avianos said:

I have to say, the tactic of making 2 damage groups for left and right orbs and everyone else for the middle is pretty darn genius



It's such a simply tactic but it works so good and promotes Jolly co-operation, we may not even need different coloured coded orbs with this strategy​​

I mean.. are you sure? How can you gauge that it's even the strategy that's working and not just the sheer power level of the people involved?

pantagruel01

spinnytop said:

I mean.. are you sure? How can you gauge that it's even the strategy that's working and not just the sheer power level of the people involved?

It probably makes a difference around the edges. A 10% difference would matter in a lot of checks I've seen.

kamokami

spinnytop said:

I mean.. are you sure? How can you gauge that it's even the strategy that's working and not just the sheer power level of the people involved?

It's hard to be super sure. But you can gauge this when the people involved mess up and go to the wrong orbs....it happens enough and the power level distribution is so uneven that you can definitely tell when the top 10 DPS mess up.

This generally results in one orb is going down too quickly and another not quickly enough to make the check. And good distribution of DPS results in all orbs going down at around the same time.