DIAMOND DUST - An ACTUAL ICE Ultimate because Fractal Aegis SUCKS

avianos

I can't help but be utterly years now with the Ice Ultimate we got...

Fractal Aegis...

an melee range ultimate which exist ONLY for Tanking, Resistance boosting and agroing
with pathetic DPS numbers and a ridiculous non-existance visual that gets activated for 1 nano-second (the floating ice crystals are cool thought, I wish they could become an aura already)

You will NEVER see this visual because the ultimate is unpopular in the community and because the activation is less than a second

other existing ultimates have DPS potential, but Fractal Aegis? it's horrible, and it was advertised horrible when the lockbox came out

What I would love to see is an ACTUAL DPS ICE ultimate, a RANGE one

Something like Diamond Dust, and attack name that appears a lot in JRPG titles

Diamond Dust

1. Ice Ultimate
2. Max 10 target cap, Charged attack
3. 80 foot range, 40 foot sphere
4. Summons huge ice stalagmites and winds around the target(s), which proceed to explode, dealing massive COLD damage in the area
5. Apply Overpowered Debuff to all targets
6. Paralyze all targets (duration scales with rank, manipulator, stats and specs)
7. Apply 3 stacks of Chilled

ADVs

• RANK 2
• RANK 3
• 1 Point - Agro ADV for tanking - Propably Chilling Reminder

An accurate visual reference
https://youtu.be/TubJR-gxkYg

THIS is what ICE deserves as ultimate

So when the energy powerframe families get revamped, and with possibility of a SECOND Ice Revamp
Just saying, Shattering objects mechanics sucks and power like Ice Burst & Vapor Form were never touched despite being extremly underwelming and outdated​​

theravenforce

avianos said:

Something like Diamond Dust, and attack name that appears a lot in JRPG titles



Diamond Dust

1. Ice Ultimate
2. Max 10 target cap, Charged attack
3. 80 foot range, 40 foot sphere
4. Summons huge ice stalagmites and winds around the target(s), which proceed to explode, dealing massive COLD damage in the area
5. Apply Overpowered Debuff to all targets
6. Paralyze all targets (duration scales with rank, manipulator, stats and specs)
7. Apply 3 stacks of Chilled

ADVs

• RANK 2
• RANK 3
• 1 Point - Agro ADV for tanking - Propably Chilling Reminder

Hmm... I've always imagined an offensive Ice Ultimate expanding outwards from the character, rather than creating a localized patch of deadly ice (But, an ice version of Flashfire complete with Chill application and chance to knock down would be great to have).

I was not happy when Fractal Aegis had a lovely casting FX but we barely got to see it!! I'm glad you found an image!




^ With that VFX in mind, I'd go a slightly different route:

Arctic Bedlam / Frozen Tundra / Arctic Blizzard / Deep Freeze

1. Ice Ultimate
2. 10 target cap. Click.
3. 50 foot range, 60 foot sphere.
4. You create a temporary landscape of ice and frost all around you, which applies Chill stacks to enemies and deals moderate damage over time. Enemies caught within the blast radius take low initial damage and are heavily snared.
5. Chilled enemies (Henchmen, Villain, Master Villain & Other Champion rank enemies) have a 15%/25%/35% chance to be knocked down per period and a 50%/75%/100% chance to be affected by 'Frozen Solid' depending on how many stacks of Chill they are affected by.
6. Frozen Solid applies a stun to enemies, encasing them in a block of ice for a set duration (6 seconds) before exploding dealing damage to the target and those around it, and applying the Overpowered Debuff to them.
7. This ultimate lasts longer than most other ultimate abilities but has a slightly higher energy cost and higher cooldown than average.

Advantages:
- Rank 2 - Increases damage of this ultimate.
- Rank 3 - Increases damage of this ultimate.
- Skate on! - This advantage applies an increase to the movement speed of you and your allies by 10% whilst this ultimate is active and you move within it's radius.
- Frozen Fortification - This advantage increases you and your allies elemental damage resistance by 5% during the ultimate and for a short time after it.

Note: Reason why I went for Stun over Paralyze, aside from the obvious, is because it is highly unlikely that there would be a CC effect tied to an ultimate which is allowed to scale in terms of duration with everything that can 'boost crowd control duration'

criswolf09

I guess our best bet is to wait for the Winter Event around December. Why? They usually add stuff related to Ice and the set hasn't seen something new since December of 2015 and I believe the Ice review will come around that time perhaps.​​

avianos

theravenforce wrote: »

1. Ice Ultimate
2. 10 target cap. Click.
3. 50 foot range, 60 foot sphere.
4. You create a temporary landscape of ice and frost all around you, which applies Chill stacks to enemies and deals moderate damage over time. Enemies caught within the blast radius take low initial damage and are heavily snared.
5. Chilled enemies (Henchmen, Villain, Master Villain & Other Champion rank enemies) have a 15%/25%/35% chance to be knocked down per period and a 50%/75%/100% chance to be affected by 'Frozen Solid' depending on how many stacks of Chill they are affected by.
6. Frozen Solid applies a stun to enemies, encasing them in a block of ice for a set duration (6 seconds) before exploding dealing damage to the target and those around it, and applying the Overpowered Debuff to them.
7. This ultimate lasts longer than most other ultimate abilities but has a slightly higher energy cost and higher cooldown than average.

Doesn't sound bad but this is really depends on taste
I personal like flashy and devasting looking ultimates instead of toggle/passives/click and forget (Video showed as reference)

But, we could combine both our suggestions together for a combined effect

Knocking down does make sense because they will constantly slip on the ice floor

theravenforce wrote: »

Advantages:
- Skate on! - This advantage applies an increase to the movement speed of you and your allies by 10% whilst this ultimate is active and you move within it's radius.
- Frozen Fortification - This advantage increases you and your allies elemental damage resistance by 5% during the ultimate and for a short time after it.

HMMMMM, Group buffing ultimates is actually a very interesting subject i would like touch but I can see a team resistance buff being more possible on an EARTH ultimate

But speed buff? Eh!

However I will state that I love ADVs like that, gives you the option to go either full DPS with the power, or support/defense

theravenforce wrote: »

Note: Reason why I went for Stun over Paralyze, aside from the obvious, is because it is highly unlikely that there would be a CC effect tied to an ultimate which is allowed to scale in terms of duration with everything that can 'boost crowd control duration'

I picked Paralyze instead of Stun for Thematic purposes alone and as a hint for Ice Burst's paralyze adv, you get trapped inside Ice objects

But again, CO's CC for me is a really unknown ground beyond 2 characters

criswolf09 wrote: »

I guess our best bet is to wait for the Winter Event around December. Why? They usually add stuff related to Ice and the set hasn't seen something new since December of 2015 and I believe the Ice review will come around that time perhaps.

To be fair, ICE was the first powerframe which got "Softly" revamped (again outdated powers and ice shattering mechanics are really underwelming)
really they didnt do anything for ice this year

I believe that Fractal Aegis was nothing more than a "TEST" ultimate to see how they can archieve defensive and tanking mecanics before the Challenge! revamp

but now with all all those new Ultimates which most of them get the Agro 1 point ADV, why even bother with Fractal Aegis? it became extremly outdated, people barely use this power (i only have it one 1 character and i havent removed it because of the RetCon cost) and other melee ultimates have way better damage​​

legendarylycan

theravenforce wrote: »

Hmm... I've always imagined an offensive Ice Ultimate expanding outwards from the character, rather than creating a localized patch of deadly ice (But, an ice version of Flashfire complete with Chill application and chance to knock down would be great to have).

so basically...a frost nova​​

spinnytop

Yeah screw that unique Ultimate, we need another Ultimate just like the other recently released Ultimates... but way more OP!

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avianos

spinnytop wrote: »

Yeah screw that unique Ultimate, we need another Ultimate just like the other recently released Ultimates... but way more OP!

Yeah because look how Popular this "unique" ultimate is right now

Who cares if you want a DPS ICE ultimate for your ICE DPS, you should stick with a defencive exlusive ICE ultimate with half second visuals because we said so ​​

avianos

Ok SCRAP Agro ADV Chilling Reminder

I just realized there is a balance rule here, every range lockbox ultimate which has Overpowered debuff or special effect like Endbringer's Grasp, cannot have an Agro ADV

... I still want a proper DPS ICE Ultimate
maybe in a future lockbox which isn't tied with a Powerframe Revamp​​

markhawkman

I use Fractal Aegis..... on a tank.

spinnytop

I dunno, shooting out a giant sheet of ice seems like a "proper ice ultimate" to me. Sure there can be more, but let's not poo on Aegis just cause your dps doesn't benefit.

avianos said:

Ok SCRAP Agro ADV Chilling Reminder



I just realized there is a balance rule here, every range lockbox ultimate which has Overpowered debuff or special effect like Endbringer's Grasp, cannot have an Agro ADV



... I still want a proper DPS ICE Ultimate

maybe in a future lockbox which isn't tied with a Powerframe Revamp​​

You would need to scrap quite a few things from your initial idea if you want it to deal good damage. Long story short: too much.

avianos

spinnytop wrote: »

Sure there can be more, but let's not poo on Aegis just cause your dps doesn't benefit.

No, Aegis deserves all my personal hate for being a dissapointment

spinnytop wrote: »

You would need to scrap quite a few things from your initial idea if you want it to deal good damage. Long story short: too much.

So we should follow the "Less is More" design philosophy?
I do want my Ultimates to be super flashy though <_<​​

spinnytop

A good place to start would be getting rid of the Paralyze.

avianos

Fair enough, I picked Paralyze just for theme but it can go away for the sake of balance, in can be replaced with a root

I'm scared to edit my orginal post because forums may mark it as spam and i have to wait for approval​​

spinnytop

Okay but because of that root it will do less damage than other new Ultimates u3u

avianos

Ok complety forget the CC and focus on the Sweet DPS damage and utility ​​

markhawkman

Hmm.... maybe a barrage of ice shurikens/giant snowflakes? Kinda like Crashing Incantation or whatever it's called?

jaazaniah1

Personally, I'd love to see more Defensive and Support Ultimates in the game. Not everything has to be about DPS.

avianos

jaazaniah1 wrote: »

Personally, I'd love to see more Defensive and Support Ultimates in the game. Not everything has to be about DPS.

Well you already got FRACTAL AEGIS, do you want ANOTHER Ice ultimate for TANKS?
Ice doesn't need a second TANKING Ultimate, it needs a pure DPS Ultimate for ICE DPS

and as for Defensive and Support utilities, this should be on player's choice by ADVs instead of forcing the ultimate to be overspecialized on only one aspect

1. Do you want to use this power for DPS? Rank it to rank 3
2. Do you want to use this power for support? Pick the support ADV
3. Do you want to use this power for tanking? Pick the tanking ADV

all the Ultimates from Lockboxes so far have been proven to have really decent DPS, yes even Endbringer's Grasp can deal some really good critical damage with the right set up

Fractal Aegis on the other hand? its a tank-exlusive passive than barely anyone use
It was clearly an experiment on defensive passives before the revamp of the Challenge! system

I made this thread for a DPS focused ICE ultimate and DPS focus alone​​

baelogventure

IMO Fractal Aegis needs to add a large HOT as well as add more resistance per-target hit, and then give a shield per target hit.

If we're gonna have a tanking Ultimate, lets make it really Ultimate AMIRITE!?

jaazaniah1

Umm, nothing about this in the tile for the thread (i.e. DPS exclusive). So, maybe I can be forgiven for raising related issues.

avianos said:

I made this thread for a DPS focused ICE ultimate and DPS focus alone​​

That people don't take this ultimate (though it will get a least a try out on the Ice Tank I am leveling) may have more to do with the amount of benefit it provides (and lack of a meaningful visual), than with lack of desire by players for other than DPS ultimates. Some sets (e.g. Celestial, at least as it is currently) don't seem fit for a DPS Ultimate. I'm not saying that a ranged Ice ultimate DPS isn't deserved, just that ultimates don't have to be limited to DPS.

I would like to see more advs on all ultimates to give them more variety and uses. Not just the current R2, R3 and done.

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spinnytop

gradii said:

Absolutely right.​​

Nah, that moves the power into "too much" territory.

baelogventure

spinnytop said:

gradii said:

Absolutely right.​​

Nah, that moves the power into "too much" territory.

(Not counting Advantages, not counting older Ultimates)
Crashing Incantation - Overpower + Jinx
Endbringer's Grasp - Fear + Corruption
Power Chord - Rock Out + Disorient
Mental Impact - Knock Down + Overpower + Ego Leech
Egoblade Pandemonium - +Crit from Ego Leech
Vorpal Blade - Bleed + extra damage from Focus stack
Mechanical Monstrosity - Poison + Knock + Debilitating Poison
Meltdown - Knockdown + Plasma Burn
Showdown - Root
Gravity Driver - Knockdown + Stun + Overpower
Fractal Aegis - Knock Up + Resistance

Looks like most Ultimates have an average of 2 innate effects, so remove the knock from Fractal Aegis and add a HOT or a Shield effect, or just add a HOT and move it into the 3 effect range.

avianos

jaazaniah1 wrote: »

Umm, nothing about this in the tile for the thread (i.e. DPS exclusive). So, maybe I can be forgiven for raising related issues.

Yeah its not like I dont repeat "DPS focus Ice Ultimate" in all my posts so much that you can see that I have Dyslexia while I repeat the same words in the same sentences

baelogventure wrote: »

(Not counting Advantages, not counting older Ultimates)
Crashing Incantation - Overpower + Jinx
Endbringer's Grasp - Fear + Corruption
Power Chord - Rock Out + Disorient
Mental Impact - Knock Down + Overpower + Ego Leech
Egoblade Pandemonium - +Crit from Ego Leech
Vorpal Blade - Bleed + extra damage from Focus stack
Mechanical Monstrosity - Poison + Knock + Debilitating Poison
Meltdown - Knockdown + Plasma Burn
Showdown - Root
Gravity Driver - Knockdown + Stun + Overpower
Fractal Aegis - Knock Up + Resistance

Looks like most Ultimates have an average of 2 innate effects, so remove the knock from Fractal Aegis and add a HOT or a Shield effect, or just add a HOT and move it into the 3 effect range.

That's exactly the basic temple I used for describing an Ice Ultimate

there is a basic Rule of 3 going on with some ultimates which have 3 effects

So Chilled stacks+Overpowered+CC Effect would be along those lines

spinnytop wrote: »

Nah, that moves the power into "too much" territory.

Ok what is the "too much" territory in designing ULTIMATES which are suppoce to feel and act like Ultimates

Looking back at my suggestion there is barely any "TOO MUCH" going on since i suggested only Overpowered+CC effect and scrapped Agro ADV because i realized the formula cant have overpowered+agro
Not to mention the ultimate will be balanced with Cooldown and Energy Cost like other range ultimates?

baelogventure wrote: »

IMO Fractal Aegis needs to add a large HOT as well as add more resistance per-target hit, and then give a shield per target hit.

If we're gonna have a tanking Ultimate, lets make it really Ultimate AMIRITE!?

Honestly? I would be ok with this

Right now you dont even need to rank this power to rank 2 and 3 if you want to use it for Tanking+Agroing, and the damage resistance against bosses isnt so useful compared when used against multiply mobs

oh and this power is better for Melee Tanks​​

spinnytop

avianos said:

Ok what is the "too much" territory in designing ULTIMATES which are suppoce to feel and act like Ultimates
​​

"They're supposed to feel like ultimates" doesn't counter the fact that they still need to be balanced against one another. Massive area of effect + long range + big damage + overpower + 3 stacks of chilled + long duration hold. Too much. I mean don't worry, when implemented they would pare this down for you, I'm just telling you to prepare for just how much paring you would see. If implemented as is, I would replace all of my character's ultimates with this one for sheer power alone.

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avianos

pandoraslockbox wrote: »

So why not just boost the damage and the time that the visual effect lasts of Fractal Aegis instead of making a new ultimate?

Because its clearly a TANKING ultimate focusing on Resistance and Agro, meaning it has no open space for Damage
and because i hate it​​

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markhawkman

Aww... but I like Fractal Aegis...... on my tank that uses fire and haymaker for damage. so much fun to wade into swarm pop Aegis then laugh at their puny DPS.