hunh? did Spinny post a picture somewhere? Or do you mean the pic from the announcement?
Sorry, I don't get your confusion. I was talking about what we were talking about.
Was that the first thing or the second thing??
Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
There's "what I think the genre is" and there's "what you think the genre is". Both answers are correct. The only wrong answer is to waste time arguing about it.
Pop culture and the media in general has done a great job in providing the stigma of anyone dressed in a furred suit by default being a pedophile / serial killer / creepy weirdo in general I guess.
Context and intent behind using a full bear costume is important. Heck, I could make the concept of a teddy bear toon being Black Harlequin's toy that became fully sentient, goes rogue because he didn't want to be bad and has aspirations to be accepted as a superhero, and it would be enough to qualify it as a viable comic superhero character both conceptually and aesthetically.
Also that sentient teddy bear would identify as Teddy Ruxpin.
I think it's more the hypocrisy that we are saying we want more of the classic super hero theme (and try as you might, we all know what that look is) and the furries are arguing that we don't and we have plenty...yet it's okay for them to say we need more furry stuff.
You can't say that lately classic hero looks have not been ignored and not favored for animal costumes.
Disingenousness notwithstanding, classic superhero costumes is not a difficult concept to get. I haven't asked for an eradication of animal parts (whatever genre they are styled on) or for no more animal parts to be made. I also made the case way back in this thread that they are a part of the comic-book superhero genre.
I simply made the case for newer, updated, classic comic-book superhero costume pieces. The only justification needed is that it's the actual genre of the game. What you do with them is up to you. Stick a wolf head and tail on them if you like (I have a couple of those types of toons myself, one of them in my forum signature at the bottom of my posts).
Also, to make it very clear, I'm all in favour of players making the types of toons that they want to play. Don't want to play a classic superhero? No problem. Want to play an anime cat-girl? Go for it. Want to play a robot tyrannosaur in a tuxedo? Fill yer boots.
Part of the problem with old tights costumes is that new sets look significantly better than the old ones. And tend to actually have all of the pieces. Older hairs look terrible compared to newer stuff.
Would be nice to have older costume bits updated occasionally. Not a major revamp all at once, but a piece or two at a time.
Maybe have the newly added hair styles able to be animated with the fire, ice, glass, etc effects the originals have as well!
Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
I think it's more the hypocrisy that we are saying we want more of the classic super hero theme (and try as you might, we all know what that look is)...
Disingenousness notwithstanding, classic superhero costumes is not a difficult concept to get. I haven't asked for an eradication of animal parts (whatever genre they are styled on) or for no more animal parts to be made. I also made the case way back in this thread that they are a part of the comic-book superhero genre.
I simply made the case for newer, updated, classic comic-book superhero costume pieces.
Are we just talking spandex here?
I mean, yeah I know that my "My Little Pony" comment was stretching things, but power armor and cybernetics are sort of a big thing now, as are more "grounded" or "real world" sorts of costumes.
I mean the various cinematic versions of heroes, on the big or small screen, are getting more viewers than most if not all books are getting in sales, so saying that spandex is all that applies cuts out a lot of modern takes on what people think a hero looks like.
Especially since the comics are tending to follow the leads movies and television are setting now. Look at Cap and Thor's costume changes (I mean Steve Rogers and the "real" Thor before they changed them)... From classic spandex to a much looser look resembling their big-screen counterparts.
I am no fan of that bear suit. I think it looks terrible. I have zero interest in any part of what this set has to offer. I think it's safe to say that if I was going to buy every costume set in the game, going with one set per month, that this bear suit would be last and I am placing it behind sets that I have not even seen yet that would be released between now and whenever the bear suit was all that was left.
But despite efforts to somehow prove that "everyone knows what an "actual" comic book superhero costume looks like", that basic concept covers a lot of different ground.
Spandex Power armor and cybernetics "Realistic" costumes Civilian clothing
All of those fit that definition to me.
=============
It's times like this that I wish I had all of the various character sourcebooks for Champions, though. In addition to just having it as reading material, to see more characters from lore and to know their backgrounds, it would let me see what the various heroes and villains out there look like.
I seriously doubt that any of the characters from lore wear a costume resembling this bear suit.
This game is set in the Champions universe. How about making it look like the Champions universe?
There's room for "animal" costumes, but I suspect that in the lore most of them fall into the "the character is an animal" (Ursa Major or Wendigo to name a couple of examples) or the "the character wears a spandex, "realistic", or power armor suit that is inspired by an animal" (Black Panther or Ankylosaur (a character from the Champions lore), as examples of these).
I don't think anyone is disagreeing that the bear suit was ugly, I think what people are trying to get at is that the superhero look is more than just spandex.
So I understand what rangeheroes are. But we have both stated examples of what we are looking for and MG even posted pictures. There have been plenty of suggestion for classic superhero tights and etc throughout the years in the forums (feel free to look).
What we are asking for is not hard to comprehend.
We aren't looking for Five Nights of Tentacle Furry Anime Hero.
We are lookin for that traditional tight hero...the one everyone knows about and have been mentioned. Silver Age, Golden Age....tights with emblems...tights with more patterns and masks that go with them.
And sure...I could **** in a bag and call it a super hero if I wanted...but we all know that isn't what I'm talking about when I say an actual super hero. (Since examples have been given)
I don't think anyone is disagreeing that the bear suit was ugly, I think what people are trying to get at is that the superhero look is more than just spandex.
If people want tights, say "Can we get more tights patterns?". If you say "Can we get more classic super hero costumes?" then it makes it seem like you're trying to make your request sound super more important because it "heralds back to the core of what this is all about!". Just ask for tights guys, no need to try to make tights sound like more than it is.
Disingenousness notwithstanding, classic superhero costumes is not a difficult concept to get. I haven't asked for an eradication of animal parts (whatever genre they are styled on) or for no more animal parts to be made. I also made the case way back in this thread that they are a part of the comic-book superhero genre.
I simply made the case for newer, updated, classic comic-book superhero costume pieces.
Who is MG?
I have seen a few people post images but none were "MG".
But why is it so difficult just to say, clearly, what these "classic comic-book superhero costume pieces" are?
I have said what I think they are at least twice, and if someone asked me to repeat myself for clarity then I would have zero problem either quoting or just repeating myself.
If you think it's spandex just say spandex.
All that said, though, it's still about the $$$. If that God-awful bear suit is selling more than the last few tights sets, then what do you think they will want to focus on?
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
How bout expanding some Scaly/Avian species some? Like a Reptile Pack of other species and some better detailed Dragon heads? >.-.>
I'd like some more reptilian/dragon heads. If they can think of some more patterns or body bits to add then all the better... Claws (hands and feet), maybe a new wing design, a new tail design, some different body fins, a new body pattern or two. Pack it up with three or four good new heads and it could be a winner.
I'm not opposed to more avian designs, but I do not know if there is enough variety out there to put together a decent package. If they could produce 4-6 new and varied bird heads on the cheap, maybe add feathered frills for the head, ears, arms, wrists (bracers) and legs and go with that, it might work. I think that the body and wings already in game are fine, but enough head options could help push sales.
I mean, maybe someone out there is really dying to play "Power Pelican" and fight against his nemesis "Tou-con"
Add in a long-billed bird like an Ibis, throw another distinct head or three into the mix, and there you go.
I mean, yeah I know that my "My Little Pony" comment was stretching things, but power armor and cybernetics are sort of a big thing now, as are more "grounded" or "real world" sorts of costumes.
I mean the various cinematic versions of heroes, on the big or small screen, are getting more viewers than most if not all books are getting in sales, so saying that spandex is all that applies cuts out a lot of modern takes on what people think a hero looks like.
Especially since the comics are tending to follow the leads movies and television are setting now. Look at Cap and Thor's costume changes (I mean Steve Rogers and the "real" Thor before they changed them)... From classic spandex to a much looser look resembling their big-screen counterparts.
I am no fan of that bear suit. I think it looks terrible. I have zero interest in any part of what this set has to offer. I think it's safe to say that if I was going to buy every costume set in the game, going with one set per month, that this bear suit would be last and I am placing it behind sets that I have not even seen yet that would be released between now and whenever the bear suit was all that was left.
But despite efforts to somehow prove that "everyone knows what an "actual" comic book superhero costume looks like", that basic concept covers a lot of different ground.
Spandex Power armor and cybernetics "Realistic" costumes Civilian clothing
All of those fit that definition to me.
=============
It's times like this that I wish I had all of the various character sourcebooks for Champions, though. In addition to just having it as reading material, to see more characters from lore and to know their backgrounds, it would let me see what the various heroes and villains out there look like.
I seriously doubt that any of the characters from lore wear a costume resembling this bear suit.
This game is set in the Champions universe. How about making it look like the Champions universe?
There's room for "animal" costumes, but I suspect that in the lore most of them fall into the "the character is an animal" (Ursa Major or Wendigo to name a couple of examples) or the "the character wears a spandex, "realistic", or power armor suit that is inspired by an animal" (Black Panther or Ankylosaur (a character from the Champions lore), as examples of these).
Not "the character wears a low-grade Halloween costume that is a children's book/show version of an animal".
No, I don't mean just spandex at all. I agree with what you have to say about the basic concept covering a lot of ground and I have already said as much myself in a previous post.
I'm talking about more superhero costume pieces like the ones in western superhero comic-books that the champions rpg (and thus CO) is inspired by.
Personally I think all of these would make for some great super hero outfits: We've got Cat Lass, Super Dog, The Amazing Panda, and Tomato Girl. Such traditional super heroes! They've even got action poses and everything! \o u o/
The biggest problem with this request comes from looking at the evolution of superhero costumes.
The earliest "heroes" were vigilantes typically labeled as "Mystery Men". The basic design for them was a Trench Coat, Tie, Dress Pants, Matching shoes, Fedora, and a Gun. There would be variants of course. Most wore eye masks, some wore capes, some wore full face masks, some wore just a scarf covering their mouths. Some wore a Dress Coat instead of a Trench Coat.
After that, we go into what is considered more traditional "Superheroes". Focusing less on regular clothes, and more on colored tights. Tights remained the staple of a superhero's costume for many years. Various accessories would be added, but the base costumes were still tights. Until you get into the 90's.
The 90's is when hero costumes started to turn more tactical. First with Liefeld Pouches, then slowly phasing out some tights for tactical clothing. The idea began to stir that superhero costumes should be more functional, and based in reality, than the flashy costumes of old. That leads to what a lot of the costume designs are for modern day.
Nowadays we have tights being completely replaced with tech and armored suits. suits that seem more functional and realistic. Every piece has to serve a practical purpose.
So when you ask "Can we get some actual comic book superhero costumes?" you have to look at how they've dressed through out the years, and what we have available right now, and decide what style of superhero costume you're actually looking for. We have everything for the classic Mystery Man style, we have A LOT for tights style, we've got pouches and tactical clothing, we even have the means of taking classic tights and making them look like tactical, and technical, armored suits.
Don't get me wrong, I am always for MOAR!. The more options we have, the more amazing costumes, and characters, we can make. But if what you're looking for is "More", then that should be the focus of your request, and you should let people know which style you're really wanting more of. A blanket statement asking for "Actual comic book superhero costumes" when we currently have a plethora of exactly that can be confusing. And it really makes it seem like the thread was created solely for bashing the animal themed costumes. Now if you have an idea for costume pieces that should be added, that don't exist, and aren't part of the typical superhero costume evolution, than please provide some pictures for examples.
The biggest problem with this request comes from looking at the evolution of superhero costumes.
The earliest "heroes" were vigilantes typically labeled as "Mystery Men". The basic design for them was a Trench Coat, Tie, Dress Pants, Matching shoes, Fedora, and a Gun. There would be variants of course. Most wore eye masks, some wore capes, some wore full face masks, some wore just a scarf covering their mouths. Some wore a Dress Coat instead of a Trench Coat.
For the pulp or noir genre Mystery-Man types we could do with better trench coats, dress pants, fedoras, hair styles and waist-coats. As well as more models for domino eye masks. Dress coats are a must too.
After that, we go into what is considered more traditional "Superheroes". Focusing less on regular clothes, and more on colored tights. Tights remained the staple of a superhero's costume for many years. Various accessories would be added, but the base costumes were still tights. Until you get into the 90's.
As well as more tights patterns, many accessories that we don't have could be added. If the devs need examples they just need to open up one of these comic books and look.
The 90's is when hero costumes started to turn more tactical. First with Liefeld Pouches, then slowly phasing out some tights for tactical clothing. The idea began to stir that superhero costumes should be more functional, and based in reality, than the flashy costumes of old. That leads to what a lot of the costume designs are for modern day.
For this genre we need better pouches, most of those we have need updating and adding to. Also, more places to put weapons and other equipment (boot holsters, etc). We need more of what we call tights in CO with more patterns and details for this genre too, as well as more tactical clothing.
Nowadays we have tights being completely replaced with tech and armored suits. suits that seem more functional and realistic. Every piece has to serve a practical purpose.
What we call tights in CO aren't being completely replaced, they're still around and still a significant look in western superhero comic books. But I know what you mean. We need more styles of tech and armoured suits as well as more tights patterns and details for this genre as well as more accessories.
Don't get me wrong, I am always for MOAR!. The more options we have, the more amazing costumes, and characters, we can make. But if what you're looking for is "More", then that should be the focus of your request, and you should let people know which style you're really wanting more of.
MOAR! of all of the ones you mentioned (and some you didn't). Inspiration is easy to get for this....... in western superhero comic-books. The list is nigh endless.
Speaking of pouches, I've noticed that the female model has access to some sweet leg-accessory pouches that dude just can't get. Makes me sad... my Leifeld parody toon needs moar pouches.
Maybe just some more military style outfits and accessories, like from the civil war to ww2 maybe?? some M1's and bayonette rifles would be great too! Maybe old west revolvers for holster options too, not just shooting guns! ^patches and packs, ranks..etc
Whisker Soldier : 3
Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
Comments
Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
There's fitting the overall broad genre......
And there's hitting wide of the mark.....
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My characters
The only wrong answer is to waste time arguing about it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Context and intent behind using a full bear costume is important. Heck, I could make the concept of a teddy bear toon being Black Harlequin's toy that became fully sentient, goes rogue because he didn't want to be bad and has aspirations to be accepted as a superhero, and it would be enough to qualify it as a viable comic superhero character both conceptually and aesthetically.
Also that sentient teddy bear would identify as Teddy Ruxpin.
You can't say that lately classic hero looks have not been ignored and not favored for animal costumes.
(Can't have not not....you get the point)
I simply made the case for newer, updated, classic comic-book superhero costume pieces. The only justification needed is that it's the actual genre of the game. What you do with them is up to you. Stick a wolf head and tail on them if you like (I have a couple of those types of toons myself, one of them in my forum signature at the bottom of my posts).
Also, to make it very clear, I'm all in favour of players making the types of toons that they want to play. Don't want to play a classic superhero? No problem. Want to play an anime cat-girl? Go for it. Want to play a robot tyrannosaur in a tuxedo? Fill yer boots. Yup.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
I await amusement...
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
I mean, yeah I know that my "My Little Pony" comment was stretching things, but power armor and cybernetics are sort of a big thing now, as are more "grounded" or "real world" sorts of costumes.
I mean the various cinematic versions of heroes, on the big or small screen, are getting more viewers than most if not all books are getting in sales, so saying that spandex is all that applies cuts out a lot of modern takes on what people think a hero looks like.
Especially since the comics are tending to follow the leads movies and television are setting now.
Look at Cap and Thor's costume changes (I mean Steve Rogers and the "real" Thor before they changed them)... From classic spandex to a much looser look resembling their big-screen counterparts.
I am no fan of that bear suit.
I think it looks terrible. I have zero interest in any part of what this set has to offer. I think it's safe to say that if I was going to buy every costume set in the game, going with one set per month, that this bear suit would be last and I am placing it behind sets that I have not even seen yet that would be released between now and whenever the bear suit was all that was left.
But despite efforts to somehow prove that "everyone knows what an "actual" comic book superhero costume looks like", that basic concept covers a lot of different ground.
Spandex
Power armor and cybernetics
"Realistic" costumes
Civilian clothing
All of those fit that definition to me.
=============
It's times like this that I wish I had all of the various character sourcebooks for Champions, though.
In addition to just having it as reading material, to see more characters from lore and to know their backgrounds, it would let me see what the various heroes and villains out there look like.
I seriously doubt that any of the characters from lore wear a costume resembling this bear suit.
This game is set in the Champions universe. How about making it look like the Champions universe?
There's room for "animal" costumes, but I suspect that in the lore most of them fall into the "the character is an animal" (Ursa Major or Wendigo to name a couple of examples) or the "the character wears a spandex, "realistic", or power armor suit that is inspired by an animal" (Black Panther or Ankylosaur (a character from the Champions lore), as examples of these).
http://championsonline.wikia.com/wiki/Ankylosaur
Not "the character wears a low-grade Halloween costume that is a children's book/show version of an animal".
So I understand what rangeheroes are. But we have both stated examples of what we are looking for and MG even posted pictures. There have been plenty of suggestion for classic superhero tights and etc throughout the years in the forums (feel free to look).
What we are asking for is not hard to comprehend.
We aren't looking for Five Nights of Tentacle Furry Anime Hero.
We are lookin for that traditional tight hero...the one everyone knows about and have been mentioned. Silver Age, Golden Age....tights with emblems...tights with more patterns and masks that go with them.
And sure...I could **** in a bag and call it a super hero if I wanted...but we all know that isn't what I'm talking about when I say an actual super hero. (Since examples have been given)
If people want tights, say "Can we get more tights patterns?". If you say "Can we get more classic super hero costumes?" then it makes it seem like you're trying to make your request sound super more important because it "heralds back to the core of what this is all about!". Just ask for tights guys, no need to try to make tights sound like more than it is.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I have seen a few people post images but none were "MG".
But why is it so difficult just to say, clearly, what these "classic comic-book superhero costume pieces" are?
I have said what I think they are at least twice, and if someone asked me to repeat myself for clarity then I would have zero problem either quoting or just repeating myself.
If you think it's spandex just say spandex.
All that said, though, it's still about the $$$.
If that God-awful bear suit is selling more than the last few tights sets, then what do you think they will want to focus on?
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
If they can think of some more patterns or body bits to add then all the better... Claws (hands and feet), maybe a new wing design, a new tail design, some different body fins, a new body pattern or two. Pack it up with three or four good new heads and it could be a winner.
I'm not opposed to more avian designs, but I do not know if there is enough variety out there to put together a decent package.
If they could produce 4-6 new and varied bird heads on the cheap, maybe add feathered frills for the head, ears, arms, wrists (bracers) and legs and go with that, it might work. I think that the body and wings already in game are fine, but enough head options could help push sales.
I mean, maybe someone out there is really dying to play "Power Pelican" and fight against his nemesis "Tou-con"
Add in a long-billed bird like an Ibis, throw another distinct head or three into the mix, and there you go.
I'm talking about more superhero costume pieces like the ones in western superhero comic-books that the champions rpg (and thus CO) is inspired by.
I'm called MG by some due to my in-game handle.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
We've got Cat Lass, Super Dog, The Amazing Panda, and Tomato Girl. Such traditional super heroes! They've even got action poses and everything! \o u o/
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
The earliest "heroes" were vigilantes typically labeled as "Mystery Men". The basic design for them was a Trench Coat, Tie, Dress Pants, Matching shoes, Fedora, and a Gun. There would be variants of course. Most wore eye masks, some wore capes, some wore full face masks, some wore just a scarf covering their mouths. Some wore a Dress Coat instead of a Trench Coat.
After that, we go into what is considered more traditional "Superheroes". Focusing less on regular clothes, and more on colored tights. Tights remained the staple of a superhero's costume for many years. Various accessories would be added, but the base costumes were still tights. Until you get into the 90's.
The 90's is when hero costumes started to turn more tactical. First with Liefeld Pouches, then slowly phasing out some tights for tactical clothing. The idea began to stir that superhero costumes should be more functional, and based in reality, than the flashy costumes of old. That leads to what a lot of the costume designs are for modern day.
Nowadays we have tights being completely replaced with tech and armored suits. suits that seem more functional and realistic. Every piece has to serve a practical purpose.
So when you ask "Can we get some actual comic book superhero costumes?" you have to look at how they've dressed through out the years, and what we have available right now, and decide what style of superhero costume you're actually looking for. We have everything for the classic Mystery Man style, we have A LOT for tights style, we've got pouches and tactical clothing, we even have the means of taking classic tights and making them look like tactical, and technical, armored suits.
Don't get me wrong, I am always for MOAR!. The more options we have, the more amazing costumes, and characters, we can make. But if what you're looking for is "More", then that should be the focus of your request, and you should let people know which style you're really wanting more of. A blanket statement asking for "Actual comic book superhero costumes" when we currently have a plethora of exactly that can be confusing. And it really makes it seem like the thread was created solely for bashing the animal themed costumes. Now if you have an idea for costume pieces that should be added, that don't exist, and aren't part of the typical superhero costume evolution, than please provide some pictures for examples.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
Damn Foreigner....cold as ice.
some M1's and bayonette rifles would be great too! Maybe old west revolvers for holster options too, not just shooting guns!
^patches and packs, ranks..etc
Whisker Soldier : 3
Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.