Easy Money?

maatmons

You know the Legacy Auras? The ones every character gets one of for free, but then you need to spend Questionite for any others? There's a scenario where people might spend real money on those. And I'm not talking about getting rid of the free ones, or removing the option to buy them with Questionite.

I'm talking about a Zen Store listing that, once bought, can be claimed by each character on the account. I'd pay to have that kind of wide-open access to some of those auras. And you're already giving them away for free, so it's not like you're damaging an existing revenue stream.

Oh, and while you're at it, please put an account-wide version of the Aura Slot unlock in the store too. I make and delete too many characters to even consider buying single-character upgrades, but I'd definitely buy the account-wide version. Heck, I only have one character who uses any aura at all, but I'd still buy this just to open up the option for all my current and future characters.

themightyzenith

Unfortunately I can't see this happening, I have the feeling they're moving away from account wide unlocks in favour of per character unlocks for stuff.

I hope you get what you suggested though.

raighn

themightyzenith said:

Unfortunately I can't see this happening, I have the feeling they're moving away from account wide unlocks in favour of per character unlocks for stuff.

I hope you get what you suggested though.

Sadly this seems to be the case... I too would love to see account wide aura slot unlocks... along with just an increased number of aura slots or the ability to define which and how many slots are combat only or always active. Heck, on atleast one character I'd love an option to set an aura to activate with travel forms...

Unknown

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spinnytop

I mean, you can already spend money to get those auras so there's a cash opportunity in place already. Per character stuff is this game's financial future so don't expect them to go backwards on that. People gonna complain, but the marketing guys know what they're doing.​​

darqaura2

spinnytop said:

I mean, you can already spend money to get those auras so there's a cash opportunity in place already. Per character stuff is this game's financial future so don't expect them to go backwards on that. People gonna complain, but the marketing guys know what they're doing.​​

If it works out for them I'm glad, the game needs all the funds it can get.

Personally I'd never spend a dime on per character stuff.

And I sometimes spend money on CO that I really shouldn't. AKA per character stuff would never be an impulse buy for me.

Anyone else who does I thank them. And the development that they fund also thanks them.

spinnytop

As it turns out the gamer population at large is okay with all the stuff that those youtube reviewers claim is evil money grubbing. They put up a video where they proclaim "down with microtransactions!" but the gamers respond with "take my money!". It's basically the same in CO as it turns out; a few forumites write up essays explaining the evils of bind to character and per character unlocks, but the population at large excitedly yells "take my money!" or "I'll farm for that!"

ealford1985

I'm sorry but who is saying that? I heard everyone in Zone complaining about the bind thing just yesterday...and people not farming events for these items....so who are these people again?

spinnytop

The people that spend the money on this stuff that motivates the marketing guys to keep doing this.


You know what's really funny? Some of the people you saw complaining are the same people spending the money or doing the things, they just don't announce that part in zone

themightyzenith

spinnytop said:

The people that spend the money on this stuff that motivates the marketing guys to keep doing this.


You know what's really funny? Some of the people you saw complaining are the same people spending the money or doing the things, they just don't announce that part in zone

I think you're claiming knowledge that you don't actually know. You don't have marketing figures or the strategy plan to back this up (or access to players bank accounts. You are also attempting to speak for the player base at large as well as the marketing department.....

spinnytop said:

...but the population at large excitedly yells "take my money!" or "I'll farm for that!"

....unless you can actually prove your point.

At best you can only speak for yourself unless you have the figures of how much bind to character has brought in specifically.

spinnytop

See here's the thing, you don't know the sales figures either, nobody does. However you can make some common sense extrapolations from events and common knowledge. One thing we know is that they keep doing this, and the other thing we know is how business people work. Business people do a thing, and if it makes them more money or raises numbers they want raised, then they keep doing it and will try to refine how they are doing it to make those numbers the best they can be. The fact that we see businesses doing these things more, and refining how they are doing it, leads to the logical conclusion that consumers are buying into it. If they weren't, then the business people would stop doing it. You don't need printouts of sales numbers to infer this, it just takes a bit of logic and common sense.

Now yes I realize you're the kind of person who won't believe anything until you see some paperwork, but there is no paperwork coming so you'll just have to hold off having any beliefs about this whatsoever until that time comes. After all if you can't believe the thing I said without paperwork, then you can't believe the opposite either. If you choose not to make any claims about these things working or not working, I'm completely fine with that, but you then can't also tell anyone else they're wrong until you've got those printouts.

I know we all want to believe that we're united against the big bad corporations and their evil schemes... but their schemes are working and require the cooperation of the population to work, so that means they're actually giving us what we want.

themightyzenith

spinnytop said:

See here's the thing, you don't know the marketing figures either.

Exactly. Which is why I don't speak for the marketing department ...... or the playerbase.

spinnytop said:

The only thing we know is that they keep doing this, and the other thing we know is how business people work. Business people do a thing, and if it makes them more money or raises numbers they want raised, then they keep doing it and will try to refine how they are doing it to make those numbers the best they can be. The fact that we see businesses doing these things more, and refining how they are doing it, leads to the logical conclusion that consumers are buying into it. If they weren't, then the business people would stop doing it. Simple logic and common sense.

They have only kept doing this for a relatively short period of time and we don't know how a continuation of the strategy of bind to character will actually work in the long run and whether it will turn out to be a success or not. I have never claimed it won't, only given my opinion on what I think of bind to character cosmetic items (auras, emotes and costume pieces).

Not all marketing strategies work out and neither of us have a crystal ball.

ealford1985

I get my facts from actual players.
MG did you farm anything last event?

Maybe you are right Spinny. Maybe people are buying into this and they are seeing an increase. But they are also seeing a decrease in other who would have ran it usually...so if the plan is replacing Player X with Player Y...then I guess it's a success If Y > X.

All I can speak for is that little Player X group.

raighn

spinnytop said:

As it turns out the gamer population at large is okay with all the stuff that those youtube reviewers claim is evil money grubbing. They put up a video where they proclaim "down with microtransactions!" but the gamers respond with "take my money!". It's basically the same in CO as it turns out; a few forumites write up essays explaining the evils of bind to character and per character unlocks, but the population at large excitedly yells "take my money!" or "I'll farm for that!"

Quite a bit of a fallacy on your part here... the market within each game is a monopoly, and there is a well known fact about monopolies. If you offer a desirable product that cwn only be obtained from one source, then people will inevitably pay any price you place on it. When dealing with a monopoly the majority opinion of tbe prices and the majority purcase practices can and often is at conflict.

Ask anyone in tbe real world who has crappy high cost internet or phone service who lives in an area with only one provider why they pay such high prices for bad service that they arent happy with. The response you will get is "I dont have a choice" that is the same situation with game cash shops. Some may be content to never buy anything, but the majority see something in the shop every now and then that they feel they have to have, and they often are the same people complaining about the prices.

spinnytop

themightyzenith said:

Not all marketing strategies work out and neither of us have a crystal ball.

Which is why I base my comments on observable facts and don't bother trying to predict the future.

themightyzenith

spinnytop said:

Which is why I base my comments on observable facts and don't bother trying to predict the future.

So where did you observe the following?....

spinnytop said:

but the population at large excitedly yells "take my money!" or "I'll farm for that!"

nevyn34

The popularity of micro transactions, DLC and the like should be a good indication that yes, gamers have disposable income and will buy useless shinies with it. If no-one ever bought that crap then it wouldn't be everywhere in modern games.

themightyzenith

nevyn34 said:

The popularity of micro transactions, DLC and the like should be a good indication that yes, gamers have disposable income and will buy useless shinies with it. If no-one ever bought that crap then it wouldn't be everywhere in modern games.

Very true. But I don't think anyone in this thread is disputing that or saying that paying for virtual goods via micropayments is a bad thing( unless you are, I'm not so clear on that). I've been making micro-transactions in CO for years.

spinnytop

raighn said:

Quite a bit of a fallacy on your part here... the market within each game is a monopoly, and there is a well known fact about monopolies. If you offer a desirable product that cwn only be obtained from one source, then people will inevitably pay any price you place on it. When dealing with a monopoly the majority opinion of tbe prices and the majority purcase practices can and often is at conflict.

This is more true when the item in question is a need. When the item in question is a luxury then the effect is different. People will pay whatever price you put if you're the only one selling food, but if you're the only one selling purses and the price is too high then people simply stop buying purses. Everything in this game, and all video games, is a purse.

raighn said:

Ask anyone in tbe real world who has crappy high cost internet or phone service who lives in an area with only one provider why they pay such high prices for bad service that they arent happy with. The response you will get is "I dont have a choice" that is the same situation with game cash shops.

The problem is that you are trying to equate a regional monopoly with a thematic monopoly. With a regional monopoly you would have to physically move your place of residence to avoid it, and that comes with a lot of extra expenses. What CO has is a thematic monopoly, where the problem is basically "I wanna play a super hero mmo with a good character creator". Here, denying the money making attempt by the monopoly holder doesn't require you to move... it doesn't even require you to stop playing the game and give up the super hero mmo with the good character creator. You can keep playing it and enjoy everything else about it - you just do without the particular item that you decide you didn't want to buy.

That's why "asking people in the real world" doesn't work in this case, because their likely response when they know what you're actually talking about would be "That's just a dumb video game, it doesn't compare to my real world problems."

raighn said:

Some may be content to never buy anything, but some see something in the shop every now and then that they feel they have to have, and they sometimes are the same people complaining about the prices.

Fixed that for you.

raighn

spinnytop said:

raighn said:

Some may be content to never buy anything, but some see something in the shop every now and then that they feel they have to have, and they sometimes are the same people complaining about the prices.

Fixed that for you.

Really, you really think you "Fixed" my post. You have some ego onyou if you thnk **** like this is funny or even remotely acceptable behavior. You are intentionally changing my words to suit your agenda. You have NO idea what you are talking about, and never have. I said "often" and I meant "often" I did not say "sometimes" nor did I mean "sometimes". Some other people may accept trolls like you posting that "fixed tat for you" bullshit, but I am NOT one of those people, you would do well to NEVER post **** like this in response to one of my posts again.

maatmons

spinnytop said:

a few forumites write up essays explaining the evils of bind to character and per character unlocks

Personally, I don't have the slightest issue with per-character unlocks existing. In fact, I'd say the ideal scenario is to have each item exist as both a per-character unlock and as an account-wide unlock.

Yes, this means some people who buy the account-wide unlock will be paying much less then if they'd had to buy it for each character separately. This is called price discrimination, and it is generally advantageous to sellers. Yes, some of the people who get the “good deal” would have been willing to settle for the “bad deal.” This makes it imperfect price discrimination, like virtually every real-world application of the concept.

Here's the thing, while imperfect price discrimination won't make you as much money as perfect price discrimination, it will make you more money than not doing any price discrimination.

And, despite the larger debate among the community, that's all this thread is asking for. Just some account-wide aura options to go alongside the per-character options. Just more ways the playerbase can spend money on the game.

If you do it right, multiple price points will make you more money. The big bag of flour costs less per pound than the small bag. Do stores just say “Hey, let's stop selling the big bags so everyone has to pay the higher rate?” No, and believe me, they would do that in a heartbeat if it was the more profitable option.

themightyzenith

maatmons said:

Personally, I don't have the slightest issue with per-character unlocks existing. In fact, I'd say the ideal scenario is to have each item exist as both a per-character unlock and as an account-wide unlock.

Yes, this means some people who buy the account-wide unlock will be paying much less then if they'd had to buy it for each character separately. This is called price discrimination, and it is generally advantageous to sellers. Yes, some of the people who get the “good deal” would have been willing to settle for the “bad deal.” This makes it imperfect price discrimination, like virtually every real-world application of the concept.

Here's the thing, while imperfect price discrimination won't make you as much money as perfect price discrimination, it will make you more money than not doing any price discrimination.

And, despite the larger debate among the community, that's all this thread is asking for. Just some account-wide aura options to go alongside the per-character options. Just more ways the playerbase can spend money on the game.

If you do it right, multiple price points will make you more money. The big bag of flour costs less per pound than the small bag. Do stores just say “Hey, let's stop selling the big bags so everyone has to pay the higher rate?” No, and believe me, they would do that in a heartbeat if it was the more profitable option.

I'd be down with this idea. If it made more money for Cryptic and gave more options for players as well as keeping account-wide costume unlocks and offering lower priced per character unlocks for those that want them then what's not to like?

Nice suggestion and perhaps a win/win strategy

spinnytop

raighn said:

Really, you really think you "Fixed" my post.

Unless you have documentation to prove otherwise, then yes my fixes made your statement more accurate according to your actual knowledge of the facts.

maatmons said:

Personally, I don't have the slightest issue with per-character unlocks existing. In fact, I'd say the ideal scenario is to have each item exist as both a per-character unlock and as an account-wide unlock.

Well the problem with this is that there's nothing to currently apply it to. The per-character items currently being talked about are in lock boxes, and the only way to pay for lock boxes is to buy Cosmic Keys. If you add account-wide variations of the per-character items then they would still just be in the lock box, with likely extremely lower drop chances, and nothing else you mentioned would actually apply since the actual purchase is still the Cosmic Key.

What you mentioned can't really be applied with Recognition either, which is generally the chief complaint when it comes to BoP items.

I like the concept and think it would be a great thing to implement - once there's something to implement it on.

maatmons

spinnytop said:

I like the concept and think it would be a great thing to implement - once there's something to implement it on.

Well, I was kind of hoping for “premium” versions of the current Z-store auras, honestly.

I may be mistaken, but I think those are all currently bind to account, which has a value somewhere between bind on pickup and what I'd consider a true account-wide unlock. A more expensive version, redeemable separately on each character, is something that I, at least, would be interested in.

Granted, a frugal player can shuffle a single account-bound item between his characters. But I think some would pay extra for the convenience of not having to.

I thought the legacy auras would make a good place to test the waters since, I assume, they don't have much impact on the bottom line as it stands. Given that legacy auras can currently be had for Questionite, it may be logical that any premium version of the same auras would also cost questionite. But cash shops always seemed the right place for account-wide unlocks to me.

One idea I've been toying with is that they could have Z-store versions of non-Z-store auras, but you're only allowed to buy them if you've already obtained the aura once the normal way. It would sort of be like spending Zen to upgrade an aura into an account-wide thing. I'm not sure if they have the capability to lock Z-store items until the player has met certain criteria though.

Also, I've never understood why aura slots are the only Z-store unlock without an account-wide version. And I'm going to keep bringing that up whenever it's at least tangentially related to a thread.

I will admit though, they might not actually see more money from me even if they give me what I want. Most of my Z-store purchases are made with the monthly stipend I get from my lifetime subscription.

spinnytop

Auras are actually even a bit harder to define than that, since buy an aura pack could potentially give you auras for 5 different toons already. Or only 1 depending on how you use them.

raighn

Regarding auras specifically, all of them should just be account bound... ALL of them! And aura storage should be account wide not character specific...