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A couple of questions about AoRP

hyperspherehypersphere Posts: 46 Arc User
edited December 2016 in Builds and Roles
I took AoRP on a character who will run in Hybrid. My first question is: does AoRP stack with other players who are running it, and does it depend on what role they're in?

Second question: I'm having trouble identifying its contribution, because when I remove AoRP, my Defense value does not change. I assumed that the tooltip's stated value (say, 69% for me at Rank 3 in Hybrid role) is based on the player's gear, so if I had a Defense value of 100, AoRP would bring that to 169. But this doesn't seem to be the case. Does it only take effect when I'm on a team, and is useless solo? I couldn't get anyone to team up for a moment to check this, and didn't have time for an alert.

Comments

  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,867 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    It stacks, but additional stacks of AoRP (or any Support slotted aura) diminish when other players are also giving it and are nearby. Afaik, it doesn't matter if its support vs. the hybrid version (though it'd be nice if it did, and/or if the highest version for allies took priority).

    The dmgRes AoRP gives isn't listed as Defense on the tooltip. It's effectively not on the character sheet. As long as you have the buff up on ur buff bar, then its working.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    I would note that there is no good reason to run AoRP in hybrid -- the defensive bonus provided to other people is negligible, and the defensive bonus provided to yourself isn't as good as Invulnerability.
    My guide to Teleios Ascendant
    Epic Stronghold
    Block timing explained
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,867 Arc User
    Eh, I can't really agree w/ 'negligible' as it really depends on the amount of Pres stated. My main AoRP healer gives ~50% dmgRes to allies if using the Hybrid role instead (I would also get ~100% dmgRes, which isn't too bad compared to defensive passives). Granted, its still better to be in Support for allies, but its not necessarily insignificant either. As for reasons to use AoRP as a Hybrid, its something I'd normally class as sub-optimal, but potentially viable- just depends on the content, goals, and build in mind.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • hyperspherehypersphere Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    flowcyto said:

    Eh, I can't really agree w/ 'negligible' as it really depends on the amount of Pres stated. My main AoRP healer gives ~50% dmgRes to allies if using the Hybrid role instead (I would also get ~100% dmgRes, which isn't too bad compared to defensive passives). Granted, its still better to be in Support for allies, but its not necessarily insignificant either. As for reasons to use AoRP as a Hybrid, its something I'd normally class as sub-optimal, but potentially viable- just depends on the content, goals, and build in mind.

    Thanks for the responses guys.

    She has Pres as a SSS. She's a melee (laser sword) seraph type that drops Poz on cooldown and I'll probably pick up some other supportish asset like Mindful Reinforcement or whatever. She's not a healer, I just wanted her to bring some group support as part of her theme. An angel fighting at your side.

    Inspired by your (Energy Sword Conroller) - Freeform build in your MISC LASER SWORD INFO AND BUILDS thread. I took the option you mentioned of using a Pres SSS, and instead of a controller I'm playing with a more protection-oriented approach.

    But if her running AoRP is actually detrimental to a dedicated support character's AoRP -- like, it will diminish the effect of theirs more than it would add to the total effect -- then I'd need to rethink that. It's hard to make a decision when the UI doesn't show the values at all.

    I suppose I could just go full Support and use the laser sword as a theme. A melee-range healer seems a little clunky to me, because I'm not contributing much for melee damage and putting myself at more risk by being there. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

    Maybe I ought to just ask you for a Laser Sword support/healer build.
    Post edited by hypersphere on
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,867 Arc User
    Well, I'm unsure how the algorithm works when considering stacking the same aura between diff players (and its even harder when its not modifying a stat visibly). So I can't give much info there or how prevalent it is, though if you are concerned of that happening, you could always take a 2nd passive as ur last slot/adv trained and use that if you run into an AoRP Support in ur group.

    As far as a melee AoRP healer- here's one way to do it w/ LS:

    (Unnamed Build) - Freeform

    Super Stats
    Level 6: Presence (Primary)
    Level 10: Intelligence (Secondary)
    Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

    Talents
    Level 1: The Witch (Con: 10, Int: 8, Pre: 10, Rec: 10)
    Level 6: Shrug It Off (Con: 5, Pre: 5)
    Level 9: Healthy Mind (Con: 5, Int: 5)
    Level 12: Diplomatic (Int: 5, Pre: 5)
    Level 15: Acrobat (Dex: 5, Con: 5)
    Level 18: Finesse (Dex: 5, Pre: 5)
    Level 21: Coordinated (Dex: 5, Int: 5)

    Powers
    Level 1: Eldritch Bolts
    Level 1: Lightspeed Strike (Rank 2, Particle Acceleration)
    Level 6: Aura of Radiant Protection (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 8: Compassion
    Level 11: Conviction (Rank 2, Reverence)
    Level 14: Iniquity (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 17: Particle Wave (Illuminate, Bad Footing)
    Level 20: Molecular Self-Assembly
    Level 23: Luminescent Slash (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 26: Laser Deflection (Rank 2)
    Level 29: Pillar of Poz (Rank 2, Dilemma)
    Level 32: Palliate (Absolve)
    Level 35: Resurrection Serum (Rank 2)
    Level 38: Rebirth
    Adv. Points: 34/36

    Travel Powers
    Level 6:
    Level 35:

    Specializations
    Presence: Repurpose (3/3)
    Presence: Selfless Ally (2/2)
    Presence: Moment of Glory (3/3)
    Presence: Force of Will (2/2)
    Sentinel: Caregiver (3/3)
    Sentinel: Sentinel Aura (3/3)
    Sentinel: Moment of Need (3/3)
    Sentinel: Genesis (1/2)
    Warden: Fortified Gear (2/3)
    Warden: Slaughter (3/3)
    Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
    Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
    Mastery: Presence Mastery (1/1)

    Gears mostly for Pres and Con, and a bit of Int.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • hyperspherehypersphere Posts: 46 Arc User
    flowcyto said:

    Well, I'm unsure how the algorithm works when considering stacking the same aura between diff players (and its even harder when its not modifying a stat visibly). So I can't give much info there or how prevalent it is, though if you are concerned of that happening, you could always take a 2nd passive as ur last slot/adv trained and use that if you run into an AoRP Support in ur group.

    As far as a melee AoRP healer- here's one way to do it w/ LS:

    Thanks so much Flow. This is just about what I had settled on, except for the shield, and I was hoping to cram a bubble or maybe SoEW in there.

    So I'd run this in Hybrid, I'd assume?

    Also, I notice that you nearly always use a ranged power for the EB even on melee builds. Is this just so that there's some ranged option for when you're out of melee (Devana Hawke's poison cloud, etc.)?

    Happy New Year!

  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,867 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    Yea, I don't like melee end builders, but that's just a personal pref since you can still 'taunt' for minor energy w/ melee end builders from range, and you shouldn't be using it much anyways.

    That build was actually made for the Support role (since that seemed to be what you requested), but yeah you could go Hybrid with it too- though energy may be a bit more of an issue and you wouldn't be healing for as much, you could have more dps and personal defense that way (so more suited for lesser group content or soloing).

    (oh yes, and Happy New Year to ya'll as well; stay safe out there)
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • carrionbaggagecarrionbaggage Posts: 735 Community Moderator
    edited January 2017
    AoRP is weird. To the best of my recollection from some testing a few months ago, here's what happens. If anyone wants to chime in with additional testing, that would be super:



    There's a nasty, long-standing bug with multiple AoRPs. There are some circumstances where, if a player is affected by multiple AoRPs at once, that player will not receive damage reduction when they attempt to block.

    A few months back, AoRP was altered so that players using the aura can only receive their own aura. This means that a teammate's AoRP will not stack on an AoRP user, but it also prevents the block bug from happening to that person.

    The problem occurs when a non-AoRP teammate (we'll call him "Blocky") is affected by multiple AoRP auras. If those auras are of the same rank and role, then Blocky is safe from the bug. If the AoRPs are of different rank and/or role, then Blocky loses block's bonus resistance when trying to block.

    Running in Hybrid is fine if you're solo, or able to confirm that your AoRP is the only one on a team. But if you're teaming up for something like an open event or a Cosmic fight, I would strongly recommend running Rank 3 AoRP in Support role (the rank/role that healer-types typically use) to avoid the block bug on your aura's recipients.
    Post edited by carrionbaggage on
  • hyperspherehypersphere Posts: 46 Arc User
    Thanks for the input. I thought I had read a patch note stating they had fixed this bug, but maybe it was just the shim you mentioned. It seems inconceivable that this would remain an issue for long; it's a pretty serious bug.

    At level 20 I'm finding that I do better with this build in Hybrid mode while in an alert (certainly while soloing), but I'm hoping that by 30 or so I'll be able to run Support better. But I have been checking for other AoRP's running (I bolt out of range as soon as the alert starts and see if someone still has it on their unit frame).
  • carrionbaggagecarrionbaggage Posts: 735 Community Moderator
    edited January 2017
    It's definitely one of my least favorite power bugs. I think this October release note was the last update; the one that prevented AoRP from stacking on those using it.

    To the developers' credit, they did look into the issue with what limited time they had; and the sorta-fix they applied is helpful. Here's hoping that more development time opens up in the future, to dig deeper into the underlying problem or just redesign the power.

    If bolting out of range feels too inconvenient, you could try briefly unslotting and re-slotting the passive from your tray. Or start the alert on a build that has the passive unslotted, then assign a keybind that swaps to a passive-slotted build if you don't see anyone else's AoRP icon pop up.
  • carrionbaggagecarrionbaggage Posts: 735 Community Moderator
    edited January 2017
    Quick edit here...

    Did some more testing on the block bug with two AoRP users and a laser-testing victim, and amended a paragraph from my previous reply. As best as I can tell, when the bug occurs, it seems to remove block resistance and replace it with the other AoRP.

    AoRP doesn't appear to stack from multiple sources on a non-AoRP user. But we weren't able to determine which AoRP was the active one at a given time. It kept inconsistently juggling between the two.
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,867 Arc User
    Well, thanks for looking into it, at least. It may be time for the aura stacking system to be reviewed, ironed out, and/or re-tooled. Its become more an issue w/ a focus on large group content and widening all auras.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • hyperspherehypersphere Posts: 46 Arc User
    It would seem that way. Rewriting whole systems (like the status tree) can be hard to sell to management. If you can't show a dollar figure loss associated with the problem, they usually don't want to turn over those stones. Especially if the code has deep dependencies with other systems. I don't know if any of this is the case, and it's pointless to speculate on an opaque codebase. But it's telling that after all this time their best effort was a shim that didn't fix much.

    I know that legacy code can be really problematic and have incomplete or incorrect documentation. My guess is that this is awful legacy code, and someone decided that a real fix would be riskier or more costly that leaving it broken.

    I'd love to be proven wrong, but I'm not holding my breath for it.
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