Make the Teleiosaurus less BS

notyuu

These points also count for the hatching that it spawns

Issue 1: The Bite that it has.. the "hungering maw" as it were... it hits every 2 seconds for enough damage to kill you instantly if you miss a block, the direct result of this, is that the tanks are left with very little, to literally no time [connection dependent] to get an attack off [assuming you're using a combo, or ultra fast attack, if not, you die] and get their block back up. when this is compared to the other cosmics, they either hit at the same speed but for significantly less damage or for roughly the same damage, but with bigger intervals between attacks leaving the tanks more time to actually...ya know.... tank.

Possible solution 1: Make the time delay between the dino bites longer, increasing it from 2 to 4 seconds.

Possible solution 2: Reduce the damage of the dino bites to bring them in line with the other cosmics [like the ape for example]

Issue 2: The DPS checks they are just a little too heavy handed, meaning unless your group composition is 95% DPS players, you'll struggle to make it past these checks if at all...thus rendering the dino literally impossible to beat with a less than optimal group.

Possible solution 1: Increase the timer on the DPS checks from 5 seconds to 10..simple as, simple be.

Possible solution 2: Remove DPS checks, instead make momma dino heal based on the damage that the baby dino takes and deals.

Issue 3: The tail swipe radius is a flat 180 degrees with a range that is... simply put, daft.. for instance when the baby is a good 10 meters from momma, and facing the same way as the mother... it is possible for the tailswipe to hit players... on the other side of the momma dino.

Possible solution 1: Reduce the cone on the tail swipe to 120 degrees...


That's it really.. and bear in mind this is written from the perspective of somebody who doesn't have access to the top tier ultra players at the snap of their fingers due to timezones [I have to stay up until midnight to even have a hope of beating the cosmics ffs]

spinnytop

The tanking is hardly ever the issue at Dino though so no changes needed there really.

As for the dps check I'm not sure where you got that 95% figure from but it's not the ratio of dps in the group that you have, but rather the quality. DOUBLING the time of the dps check is a bit of an insult to the players... you really think they're that bad? lol, meanie. Solution 2 is basically taking the responsibility for dealing with the healing away from all the dps and putting it on the one off tank... that is a wild swing in balance.

Tail swipe could be narrower. Right now the only explanation is that it has a giant invisible sword attached to its tail. However, I suspect the tail's area of effect is what it is for something relating to our ability to position the dinos so narrowing it might actually have a bigger effect than at first it seems it would.

pantagruel01

Odd. Usually requests like this come when a boss is currently not being beaten regularly, indicating it might be overtuned, but the dino is pretty solidly on the farm list right now.

notyuu

spinnytop said:

The tanking is hardly ever the issue at Dino though so no changes needed there really.

As for the dps check I'm not sure where you got that 95% figure from but it's not the ratio of dps in the group that you have, but rather the quality. DOUBLING the time of the dps check is a bit of an insult to the players... you really think they're that bad? lol, meanie. Solution 2 is basically taking the responsibility for dealing with the healing away from all the dps and putting it on the one off tank... that is a wild swing in balance.

Tail swipe could be narrower. Right now the only explanation is that it has a giant invisible sword attached to its tail. However, I suspect the tail's area of effect is what it is for something relating to our ability to position the dinos so narrowing it might actually have a bigger effect than at first it seems it would.

1: The issue with tanking the dino, is that one mistake and you're dead, combined with a ~2 second attack speed makes for an experience that is about as fun as smashing your head against the wall.

2: While I would love to have quality DPS players available for tackling the dino within my timezone, It's about 300% more likely that CO reaches the #1 played game on steam....I've said it before and I'll say it again, the number of players within the EU timezone which are both capable and willing can be counted on one hand. [srsly, the last dino tun i was on within my timezone that managed to pass the DPS checks at all was before the dino buff]

3: Narrowing it would also make it slightly easier for the melee dps to actually get in there without having to basically pile ontop of eachother.

pantagruel01 said:

Odd. Usually requests like this come when a boss is currently not being beaten regularly, indicating it might be overtuned, but the dino is pretty solidly on the farm list right now.

The last successful Dino attack I was at took place at 1:36am... the last successful Dino attack I took part in that was before midnight was before the damn thing got buffed and made into BS...so once again, while things might be fine and dandy for the players within the US timezone, for everyone outside, it's a hell of a painful struggle.

roughbearmattach

My thougts, as a below-elite tier player:

1. My main tank can survive one missed bite block, but not two in a row. So, I need to block more and carefully--that is play skill, not build/gear skill. I'm not the greatest tank, because I like pushing buttons, not holding them; I miss blocks at times, but it's fun for me to play on the edge.

2. Doubling the DPS check time would make the dino just way too easy. If a tweak is needed, then maybe lower the healing a bit. BK was saying yesterday that the healing is scaled off of how much the DPS check misses by. Is that true? Still, dino is hard--but I don't want Cosmics to be autowin.

3. The tail swipe should be 120 degrees in my opinion, too. Just makes it super annoying when a group of 40-50 are trying to fight dino, all clumped in a tiny space.

notyuu

roughbearmattach said:

My thougts, as a below-elite tier player:

1. My main tank can survive one missed bite block, but not two in a row.

My main tank has 16K HP, gets 92% from invul and 148% from defense, giving him 240% base resist and he dies in one hit from a unblocked dino bite... so all I gotta ask is what the hell is your tank made of? or could it be you had AoRP on you....[which to date i've never been buffed by at a dino fight]

jaazaniah1

If you are not the Main tank for any of the cosmis (i.e. a soak tank) you can pretty much toggle on a block and go get a beer (as long as the healers are doing their jobs). Having another second or 2 for some other attacks might be fun.

Agree that doubling the time for the DPS check would trivialize it. Could be other options.

I'd be nice if tail swipe radius could be adjusted.

roughbearmattach said:

My thougts, as a below-elite tier player:

1. My main tank can survive one missed bite block, but not two in a row. So, I need to block more and carefully--that is play skill, not build/gear skill. I'm not the greatest tank, because I like pushing buttons, not holding them; I miss blocks at times, but it's fun for me to play on the edge.

2. Doubling the DPS check time would make the dino just way too easy. If a tweak is needed, then maybe lower the healing a bit. BK was saying yesterday that the healing is scaled off of how much the DPS check misses by. Is that true? Still, dino is hard--but I don't want Cosmics to be autowin.

3. The tail swipe should be 120 degrees in my opinion, too. Just makes it super annoying when a group of 40-50 are trying to fight dino, all clumped in a tiny space.

markhawkman

What's the actual range on the tail swipe anyways?

soulforger

markhawkman said:

What's the actual range on the tail swipe anyways?

Like 25ft to 50ft.

pantagruel01

notyuu said:

My main tank has 16K HP, gets 92% from invul and 148% from defense, giving him 240% base resist and he dies in one hit from a unblocked dino bite... so all I gotta ask is what the hell is your tank made of?

The dino's bite damage can be split among up to 3 targets. With your stats (assuming no extra mitigation from laser knight, ebon void, or AoRP) you'd survive a 54k hit, which will survive almost all dino bites if split three ways (it can do upwards of 160k, but is quite unlikely to do so). The 'standard' setup for fighting the dino is three tanks on mama, one tank on baby, 2 healers on main tank, one healer on baby tank, everyone else dps. It's possible to do with less than that, but fairly challenging.

notyuu

pantagruel01 said:

notyuu said:

My main tank has 16K HP, gets 92% from invul and 148% from defense, giving him 240% base resist and he dies in one hit from a unblocked dino bite... so all I gotta ask is what the hell is your tank made of?

The dino's bite damage can be split among up to 3 targets. With your stats (assuming no extra mitigation from laser knight, ebon void, or AoRP) you'd survive a 54k hit, which will survive almost all dino bites if split three ways (it can do upwards of 160k, but is quite unlikely to do so). The 'standard' setup for fighting the dino is three tanks on mama, one tank on baby, 2 healers on main tank, one healer on baby tank, everyone else dps. It's possible to do with less than that, but fairly challenging.

apprently the 160K hits are a common thing with me or something, becasue even with 2 other tanks there, when i miss a block, i still die instantly... so eaither RNG hates me, your not counting the lack of AoRP in the calculation.....or the dino is BS.

pantagruel01

notyuu said:

apprently the 160K hits are a common thing with me or something, becasue even with 2 other tanks there, when i miss a block, i still die instantly... so eaither RNG hates me, your not counting the lack of AoRP in the calculation.....or the dino is BS.

Without observing one of your fights I can't really say what is going wrong. You're at the low end of what I'd consider practical durability for a dino main tank, but not impossibly low.

Unknown

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roughbearmattach

I have a Defiance tank that has total 240% resist with full stacks. This tank has 16,400 health.

Definitely, usually get one or two auras in a fight--AoPM is a big help, but sometimes I get AoRP, too.

pantagruel01

gradii said:

I'm sorry but if the GOLD KNIGHT is on the LOW end of practical durability for a dino tank, dino needs its damage cut.

Well, I'm assuming no laser knight or ebon void, since it wasn't mentioned.

spinnytop

gradii said:

I'm sorry but if the GOLD KNIGHT is on the LOW end of practical durability for a dino tank, dino needs its damage cut.

I know we're all super enthralled with how amazing gold knight is, but having healed it in TA I can confirm it is not one of the tougher tanks out there. With the numbers that it has you would think it would be, but for some reason it isn't. And I'm not even talking about superamazingminmaxedsecretcrypticmathtech tanks either.

Unknown

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notyuu

Fine, to clear up some confusion, i'm post my tank's stats and link his build....but the end result is that the dino is still BS


Build
As you can see it's simple [if unremarkable] build with no frills.

the gear is ov defender gloves, def heart, discount eyepeice, offence gloves, def chest, discount helm.. modded with +con/off/def/discount/damage mod.

I am currently in the process [as I post this as a matter of fact] of swapping out the mods in his secondry for str, and testing the increased damage/threat vs durability loss...[hence the powerhouse]

aiqa

My tanks have far lower defensive stats, and don't really have these kind of troubles (tanked Dino well over 100 times). With practice and patience it's quite doable to block 99% of Teleiosaurus' attacks. The rest is just depending on your team for splitting damage and healing, also be smart with your ADs and maybe stat for your ADs a bit more.

pantagruel01

Okay, you do have laser knight (I assume; I guess you could rank up energy shield instead, but who does that?). That boosts the survivable hit from 54k to 72k, which is well over the threshold for getting one-shotted on a three-way split unless she's frenzied.

aiqa

I would not really recommend laserknight. While it does make missing a block less of an issue, you do miss out on r3, which is more important. For ebon void the adv works better since it works with turtling, but the 2 seconds duration on laserknight is not really worth it.

spinnytop

gradii said:

You're full of BS.

You live in a bubble o3o

pantagruel01

aiqa said:

I would not really recommend laserknight.

There's not much reason to take energy shield if you aren't taking LK.

roughbearmattach

Doesn't Energy Shield just have higher basic defense?

I take blocks for theme reasons on all my toons. My main tank, Tower of Power, uses Electric Shield.

servantrules

aiqa said:

I would not really recommend laserknight. While it does make missing a block less of an issue, you do miss out on r3, which is more important.

Laser Knight has saved my bacon more times than I can count as there will always be an instance that you'll miss a block (especially when there's lag), so it is more of a toss up, IMHO.

pantagruel01

roughbearmattach said:

Doesn't Energy Shield just have higher basic defense?

Yes, by 20%, but the difference between +360% and +380% isn't all that significant; if I'm going to take a ranked block without a linger I'll probably take Retaliation (sure, only +360%, but the +120% damage bonus after blocking a shot will help threat generation substantially).

aiqa

Problem with retaliation is that you need to block almost a second faster than for just blocking damage.

So far I like antagonize best, it allows to move very fast after Qwyjibo's AoE or out of Grond's ground AoE. It also works great against repel attacks with multiple hits like Awakened Clarence or Mechanon, since the repels overwrite eachother and the repel resist stack instantly.

nepht

Not the hardest cosmic in my opinion but she really is the most annoying and not fun at all. If I am on a freeform sure not big issue she might kill me a couple of time but meh I can live with that but She bloody just curb stomps my Inferno Nepht :I

Squishy ATs do not enjoy that cosmic.

notyuu

nepht said:

Not the hardest cosmic in my opinion but she really is the most annoying and not fun at all.

Somebody finally gets it.

nacito

jaazaniah1 said:

If you are not the Main tank for any of the cosmis (i.e. a soak tank) you can pretty much toggle on a block and go get a beer (as long as the healers are doing their jobs).

Yea let the main tank do his job, then he gets DCed and since no one but him and dps were getting agro...

I know in resume if you can't survive a single unblocked bite, then you are screwed, because demands that you just need the reflexes to block on time every frkn time you don't have your AD, looking at your stats and thinking about it I might recommend getting defiance, since you will get better tanking cosmics with that much CON

spinnytop said:

I know we're all super enthralled with how amazing gold knight is, but having healed it in TA I can confirm it is not one of the tougher tanks out there. With the numbers that it has you would think it would be, but for some reason it isn't. And I'm not even talking about superamazingminmaxedsecretcrypticmathtech tanks either.

^ I also agree there are tanks that can survive a single bite and a bit more

spinnytop

notyuu said:

nepht said:

Not the hardest cosmic in my opinion but she really is the most annoying and not fun at all.

Somebody finally agrees with me.

It happened! \o/

kamokami

If you want to make a badass dino tank then r3 TK shield all the way. As a baby tank you basically won't need a healer. And as a main tank you can survive complete healer wipes if you have 2 spike heals.

For Eido go with the Eld shield.

Or if you want something decent that's more general purpose then take Ebon w adv. This will provide you with more defense when you miss a block than Laser Knight....esp since when you miss blocks you're usually not attacking.

As for the stats, with that much defense you'd be better off slotting in growth mods in your prim def for more hp. At that resistance level, more HP is going to be a better deterrent to one-shots than additional resistance in the defense, passive, etc. layer.

I would not recommend Laser Knight unless you were using slow full charge attacks like Haymaker as the damage decrease is just not worth it...esp since Ebon adv is around.

You can definitely get full or almost full charges from most major melee attacks and certainly from Laser Swords in between bites. Agreed that messing up is punishing, but it's totally doable. If you wanna practice on PTS I'm happy to bring my healer and help.

Regarding getting one-shot despite what seems to be a very durable set up, one thing I have not seen mentioned is the debuff from either the baby's or the momma's breath. If you get a couple of those stacks on you and the mom crits then yeah you will get one shot even with 2 other tanks splitting the damage. So just be safe and block for a bit after the breath.

morigosa

Dino breath debuff is lethal, yeah. It's also a thing you have to block early for - if you block just before the damage tick lands, you'll still get at least one stack of it. Once you see six ticks of damage go by, though, it's safe to let off block and attack for a bit... as long as those six were actually dino breath and not, oh, a tail swipe from the baby or something.

If you do have the debuff from breath, that's a good time to use MD... or just follow Kamokami's advice and continue blocking until it's fallen off.

darqaura2

nepht said:

Not the hardest cosmic in my opinion but she really is the most annoying and not fun at all. If I am on a freeform sure not big issue she might kill me a couple of time but meh I can live with that but She bloody just curb stomps my Inferno Nepht :I

Squishy ATs do not enjoy that cosmic.

I think Edo is the most annoying due to all of the gimmicks at various stages of that fight and how punishing it is if your group fucks up dealing with just one of them, while Dino can just be long if your group doesn't have the dps.

With that said no CC at Kiga or Ape and . . . actually I've never seen either done without cc.

spinnytop

darqaura2 said:

With that said no CC at Kiga or Ape and . . . actually I've never seen either done without cc.

We used to do it when they first came out. Tanks would hold the dogs during kiga, dps would nuke the hearts at ape. That was back before we had a reliable supply of CCers.

I personally think Eido is the funnest cosmic because of how much you have to move and retarget n stuff. Very active fight.

darqaura2

kamokami said:

If you want to make a badass dino tank then r3 TK shield all the way. As a baby tank you basically won't need a healer. And as a main tank you can survive complete healer wipes if you have 2 spike heals.

For Eido go with the Eld shield.

Or if you want something decent that's more general purpose then take Ebon w adv. This will provide you with more defense when you miss a block than Laser Knight....esp since when you miss blocks you're usually not attacking.

As for the stats, with that much defense you'd be better off slotting in growth mods in your prim def for more hp. At that resistance level, more HP is going to be a better deterrent to one-shots than additional resistance in the defense, passive, etc. layer.

I would not recommend Laser Knight unless you were using slow full charge attacks like Haymaker as the damage decrease is just not worth it...esp since Ebon adv is around.

You can definitely get full or almost full charges from most major melee attacks and certainly from Laser Swords in between bites. Agreed that messing up is punishing, but it's totally doable. If you wanna practice on PTS I'm happy to bring my healer and help.

Regarding getting one-shot despite what seems to be a very durable set up, one thing I have not seen mentioned is the debuff from either the baby's or the momma's breath. If you get a couple of those stacks on you and the mom crits then yeah you will get one shot even with 2 other tanks splitting the damage. So just be safe and block for a bit after the breath.

Woah this is solid advice, especially the last paragraph! Kudos!

pantagruel01

darqaura2 said:

With that said no CC at Kiga or Ape and . . . actually I've never seen either done without cc.

Kiga can be done without hard cc (need someone to interrupt dog howls so they don't build doomstacks, but any stun can do that), but it requires multiple tanks and healers.

roughbearmattach

kamokami said:

Regarding getting one-shot despite what seems to be a very durable set up, one thing I have not seen mentioned is the debuff from either the baby's or the momma's breath. If you get a couple of those stacks on you and the mom crits then yeah you will get one shot even with 2 other tanks splitting the damage. So just be safe and block for a bit after the breath.

Yaaas, this!

Perhaps this is the origin of the OP's problems. The breath debuff is serious.