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Capabilities of a CC/Debuffer

jojenmaihemjojenmaihem Posts: 161 Arc User
in Builds and Roles
I think this a little outside of my knwoledge of the game, to make a build around CC/Debuff that can support teams (even if the build don't have heals) using the... "nerfed" mechanics of CC/Debuff.

I though in using Mind, but damn god is weak (but very fun to apply lot of things and then Mind Break) but even so I want to use them.

I don't have a base build like other times so I'm in need a some advice o tips to star making this main toon (Time to use those Heirlooms :))

Somenthing I look if is possible:
- Debuff enemy and buff my team
- CC the adds/mobs (I think the CC is nearly null in the bosses so I don't know how that works if I use Sentinel)
- Runes in the ground (I love this effect when using things like Poz and I leave a healing rune)
- Maybe shields? (I think i'm burning the power slots already)

Isn't mandative to follow all the points, following two of them can be cool and little by little forging the build.

Thanks in advance guys.

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    flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,742 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    Here's a buff/debuff centered build that can be versatile and fun.

    (Unnamed Build) - Freeform

    Super Stats
    Level 6: Presence (Primary)
    Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
    Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

    Talents
    Level 1: The Witch (Con: 10, Int: 8, Pre: 10, Rec: 10)
    Level 6: Shrug It Off (Con: 5, Pre: 5)
    Level 9: Healthy Mind (Con: 5, Int: 5)
    Level 12: Diplomatic (Int: 5, Pre: 5)
    Level 15: Acrobat (Dex: 5, Con: 5)
    Level 18: Coordinated (Dex: 5, Int: 5)
    Level 21: Finesse (Dex: 5, Pre: 5)

    Powers
    Level 1: Eldritch Bolts
    Level 1: Pillar of Poz (Rank 2, Dizzying Impact)
    Level 6: Aura of Primal Majesty (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 8: Concentration
    Level 11: Condemn (Rank 2, Redemption Denied)
    Level 14: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 17: Molecular Self-Assembly
    Level 20: Will-o'-the-Wisp (Guide, Ghost Fire)
    Level 23: Curse (Jinxed, Covet)
    Level 26: Vala's Light (Rank 2, Light Everlasting)
    Level 29: Ascension (Judgment)
    Level 32: Death's Embrace (Pact)
    Level 35: Voodoo Doll (Rank 2)
    Level 38: Magician's Dust
    Adv. Points: 34/36

    Travel Powers
    Level 6:
    Level 35:

    Specializations
    Presence: Repurpose (3/3)
    Presence: Dominion (2/2)
    Presence: Moment of Glory (2/3)
    Presence: Force of Will (1/2)
    Presence: Vulnerability (2/2)
    Sentinel: Torment (2/2)
    Sentinel: Sentinel Aura (3/3)
    Sentinel: Moment of Need (3/3)
    Sentinel: Wither (2/2)
    Overseer: Administer (3/3)
    Overseer: Ruthless (2/2)
    Overseer: Impact (2/2)
    Overseer: Trapped (3/3)
    Mastery: Sentinel Mastery (1/1)

    Can roll Fear, Jinxed, Disorient, Illumination, Wither, Trapped, Sent Mastery, Impact, and Vuln. Can also do much splash healing potentially, buff stats w/ AoPM, and res allies. Best when played up close w/ melee/tanks so Pillar and Vala's also hits them (and pillar hits the target). Charged Condemns are filler that can roll many of the debuffs. Also CC's naturally. Toggle taken depends on priorities (dps = Conc, healing = Compassion, CC = Manip). Doesn't have to be played in Support role if you want more personal dps and less of a healer stigma (dps won't be great either way, but you can greatly help out groups).
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
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    jojenmaihemjojenmaihem Posts: 161 Arc User
    And here I was reading every skill in the game to make somenthing useful.

    With this build I see can have a rotations to avoid "Inmunities" to the CC/Debuff (who tough that was a good idea putting resists?)

    Surely I will go with Manip, because dps for me isn't important and don't want to be heal bot and Cosmics are yuck so I want to stick with Global events, Lairs and Alerts if possible.

    I will going to try it right now, thanks for the help!
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    jojenmaihemjojenmaihem Posts: 161 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    I forgot to ask, Wither, Trapped, Sent Mastery, Impact, and Vuln can be activated in bosses?

    They are inmune to Paralyze, Root, Snare...etc. but they gain resistance to that but if they don't get affected I don't know if the masteries are working.
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    flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,742 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    The debuffs apply even to CC-immune mobs (obv the CC effect itself won't). Some debuffs have shorter durations no higher ranked targets, though, so vs. Supervillains and Cosmics some debuffs will fall off pretty quickly if not renewed often (which this build can do).
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
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    pwestolemynamepwestolemyname Posts: 978 Arc User
    I have a debuffer/healer and the debuffs can work really well. I kind of want to dump the healing and go full-on debuffer. I wish more people would roll debuffers because stacking debuffs could make a lot of these monster seem like kitty cats.

    I would never build a debuffer without Sigils of Weakness. One of the best debuffs in the game.
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    Used to be coach on the forums. Still @coach in game.
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    flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,742 Arc User
    Sigils can be very good, but can be destroyed easily too, aren't mobile, and scale off of Pres. They come w/ a bit more strings attached, though I find they are better for a melee unit (the odd one w/ some Pres) cause they have to stick to the boss anyways.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
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    jojenmaihemjojenmaihem Posts: 161 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    Well this build have to be with the melees, so i can change somenthing and try the sigils.
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    flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,742 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    Also, one strong debuff I didn't include was Shadow of Doubt's, which if you can stack up reliably is very good, and doesn't take much energy or need a specific stat (though its stack can drop off if you slack). There's Mini Drive too, but the cdr nerf hurt its uptime. Its tough to include all the debuffs in one build for practicality, but if more players could stick in the odd Ego Sleep w/ adv, or Mini Drive, or SoD, or Pillar (w/ Disorient and/or Jinx, for melee), etc. in their build then they could considerably help healers and tanks in dealing w/ Cosmics.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
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    jojenmaihemjojenmaihem Posts: 161 Arc User
    I think Will'o'Wisp doesn't apply Illumination to party, only to enemy.

    Even using the power at melee range with the rest of the party around me, none of us get the Illumination buff.
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    flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,742 Arc User
    Testing Wisp w/ Guide in the PH atm (w/ pets to replace allies), and I'm getting both its debuff on the target and the buff on me and allies. The buff version hits around you instead of the target, though. The icon for the debuff and buff are also colored differently. So it seems to be working, unless the live version is bugged.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
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    jojenmaihemjojenmaihem Posts: 161 Arc User
    Can be because I used that buff while using the AT and others builds and the buff always was applied.

    But in the last five alerts in the boss fight the buff never shows, only in the boss (as debuff) and using it like I said (Melee range and with my team around me and the boss).
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    flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,742 Arc User
    I dunno. it may be a bug w/ the AT's version or if other players are using it. Can't say as I don't have that on live to test atm. I guess you can test if the buff version really works by seeing if Ascension's Judgement still heals allies.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
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    jojenmaihemjojenmaihem Posts: 161 Arc User
    I made some changes at the tree build

    Powers
    Level 1: Eldritch Bolts
    Level 1: Pillar of Poz (Rank 2, Dizzying Impact)
    Level 6: Aura of Primal Majesty (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 8: Condemn (Rank 2, Redemption Denied)
    Level 11: Sigils of Ebon Weakness (Rank 2, Inner Peace)
    Level 14: Will-o'-the-Wisp (Guide, Ghost Fire)
    Level 17: Molecular Self-Assembly
    Level 20: Vala's Light (Rank 2, Light Everlasting)
    Level 23: Curse (Jinxed, Covet)
    Level 26: Ascension (Judgment)
    Level 29: Death's Embrace (Pact)
    Level 32: Voodoo Doll
    Level 35: Shadow of Doubt (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 38: Manipulator
    Adv. Points: 36/36

    Ebon Sigils w/ Inner Peace are awesome, in the last Alerts I can have all the party running full life (+ Rune from Poz/Illumination) while rendering useless the enemies with the debuffs from the sigils, wisp and condemn+vulnerability and I don't need to be a heal bot, put all the skills running and they going healing little by little.

    Energy isn't a problem with MSA... like never.

    I never saw a Jack Fool doing low damage in the spikes attacks.

    I will still testing more things.
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    flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,742 Arc User
    edited December 2016
    Glad to hear its working well. There's also Fester as a debuff, though that takes building up poison and using either full charged Vile Lariat or Thrash. Hard to get all the debuffs in one build.

    I'd prob leave at least 2 adv points open to fully rank ur most used travel power. Shadow of Doubt's dmg is pretty low, so you can take ranks out of it w/o much an effect (ranks don't affect the debuff power).
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
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    jojenmaihemjojenmaihem Posts: 161 Arc User
    And here we go again... with a new fresh LTS is time to start updating "old" things.

    And starting with this fun build... (the forums don't know how to be forums in these moments so I leave the url and because the build don't let me export in BBCode)

    Last Bizarro Build

    That's how is the build the last time I played and now wanted to know if need to change things or is still viable.

    Thanks as always Heros!
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    flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,742 Arc User
    There's no need to have Corrupting Force on Condemn since the Wisp applies Debilitating Poison innately. Having both Pillar of Poz and Curse apply Jinx is also a bit redundant. You could consider changing the EU to Conjuring, but I don't think it will affect the build too much either way (either EU scales from Int).

    I may also try to rank one of the travel powers (w/e one you use more often). Getting the stun adv on the block is another option, though not essential to the build either. You could also consider getting another self-heal like Conviction, an AD, and/or a self-res, but you'd have to free up power slots for them. I assume this build is still not meant to be a healer, and that you still don't want to do Cosmics with it.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
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    jojenmaihemjojenmaihem Posts: 161 Arc User
    I think this build needs lots of tweaks to be Cosmic rank and yes isn't made to be a healer, most debuffer with lot of things (Curse, Jinx, Stun, Paralyze, Poison... etc) with the plus of using Sentinel to heal team.
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    flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,742 Arc User
    You can be useful in Cosmics even just as a debuffer- you don't necc have to stick strictly to the trinity roles (tank, healer, dps) to have value there. If other Supports are using AoRP, though, and their Pres is higher, you may want to have the ability to bring a diff aura to the mix (would not recommend bringing a support aura as a Hybrid, as their auras are much weaker for allies).
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
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    pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    flowcyto wrote: »
    If other Supports are using AoRP, though, and their Pres is higher, you may want to have the ability to bring a diff aura to the mix (would not recommend bringing a support aura as a Hybrid, as their auras are much weaker for allies).
    Hybrid auras also have a bug: if you have a support and non-support aura, they can add up to less than a support aura, and aorp stacking is even worse, as it can disable blocking.
    My guide to Teleios Ascendant
    Epic Stronghold
    Block timing explained
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    jojenmaihemjojenmaihem Posts: 161 Arc User
    The aura right now is only a fill... AoRP is good but for this build Ebon or Arcane can be better (if not Primal Majesty because more stats) so that isn't a problem.
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    magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,268 Arc User
    I am currently using a team buff/debuff/healer combo build based around AoED and Darkness powers. I'll post it up when I've done it's post level-40 finessing, but you can get plenty of mileage out of PRE PSS / AoED if you combine them with powers which apply Fear (Darkness attacks, Howl, Hex of Suffering, Grasping Shadows) - strong damage debuffs (even on bosses), regular team heals, and some very strong Holds, too. I flip between Compassion (where healing is important) and Manipulator (for longer stuns and holds).
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    flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,742 Arc User
    edited June 2018
    pantagruel01 wrote: »
    flowcyto wrote: »
    If other Supports are using AoRP, though, and their Pres is higher, you may want to have the ability to bring a diff aura to the mix (would not recommend bringing a support aura as a Hybrid, as their auras are much weaker for allies).
    Hybrid auras also have a bug: if you have a support and non-support aura, they can add up to less than a support aura, and aorp stacking is even worse, as it can disable blocking.
    Not that it concerns this build, but I think at this point I'm just going to always reject any build concept that wants to bring an aura slotted passive to Cosmics as a Hybrid. Maybe until/unless they fix their interactions.

    The dual toggle approach as mentioned above can also be nice, in special cases as as a sort of alternative to dual passive builds (ofc, w/ the caveat that the build and stats have to be able to work innately w/ either toggle).
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
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    jojenmaihemjojenmaihem Posts: 161 Arc User
    magpieuk2014 wrote: »
    I am currently using a team buff/debuff/healer combo build based around AoED and Darkness powers. I'll post it up when I've done it's post level-40 finessing, but you can get plenty of mileage out of PRE PSS / AoED if you combine them with powers which apply Fear (Darkness attacks, Howl, Hex of Suffering, Grasping Shadows) - strong damage debuffs (even on bosses), regular team heals, and some very strong Holds, too. I flip between Compassion (where healing is important) and Manipulator (for longer stuns and holds).

    Hoho~

    Darkness you say? Then I'll wait to that in the mean time going to see more possible things and combos for this build.

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    pwestolemynamepwestolemyname Posts: 978 Arc User
    magpieuk2014 wrote: »
    I am currently using a team buff/debuff/healer combo build based around AoED and Darkness powers. I'll post it up when I've done it's post level-40 finessing, but you can get plenty of mileage out of PRE PSS / AoED if you combine them with powers which apply Fear (Darkness attacks, Howl, Hex of Suffering, Grasping Shadows) - strong damage debuffs (even on bosses), regular team heals, and some very strong Holds, too. I flip between Compassion (where healing is important) and Manipulator (for longer stuns and holds).

    Have you posted the build, yet? I'm interested in doing something similar. I eventually changed my debuff/healer to main healer with a few debuffs, but I'd like to see how a buff/debuff main runs.
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    Used to be coach on the forums. Still @coach in game.
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    pwestolemynamepwestolemyname Posts: 978 Arc User
    jojenmaihem wrote: »
    I think this a little outside of my knwoledge of the game, to make a build around CC/Debuff that can support teams (even if the build don't have heals) using the... "nerfed" mechanics of CC/Debuff.
    Also, regarding the capabilities of such a build, my CCer (with a couple debuffs) is my best soloist. She can fairly easily solo everything in the QWZ, and can usually solo the Unstable Portals in MC. She does use some device/consummable help.
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    Used to be coach on the forums. Still @coach in game.
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    jojenmaihemjojenmaihem Posts: 161 Arc User
    Truth be told... I felt more comfortable using Supports/Tanks or Hybrids towards supporting (be Healing or Debuff mixed with DPS "Arbiter Mastery") than DPS and now with more slots can do more oriented support toons.

    Only have DPS to farm thing a little faster (and gear Merc Equip to the other toons).
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    magpieuk2014magpieuk2014 Posts: 1,268 Arc User
    Have you posted the build, yet?

    I will, but there may be some delay. Someone decided this was a good time to start a World Cup. So. Much. Soccer.
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